No Traffic after converting to FSX

[bkircher]

Hey there to all

This certainly looks to be a good program. It was really easy to navigate to get it to convert traffic files to fsx.

I do have a question though, I tried converting one of my traffic bgls to fsx format because it was previously in FS9 format, and when it finishes and all, I load the sim and I find that there is no traffic for the files I just converted.

Any comments?? ANy more information that I could give you??

[gyedema]

The solution is very easy: just delete (or remove) the old FS9 traffic files. FSX only shows FS9 traffic when both types occur. (not a bug, but a feature.. ;))
See also this sticky (http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13753).

[bkircher]

I did.

I removed the old fs9 ones from the world/scenery folder and copied the fsx ones into it, and I dont see anything.

[gyedema]

Use AIFP to search the ENTIRE FSX structure. So point it at the top level folder you installed FSX in, and let AIFP check (so not only \scenery\world\scenery!!)

[gadgets]

bkircher, as I noted in a "stickly" a couple of days ago, traffic files can also exist in scenery folders. So, you may still have FS9 traffic files "visible" to FSX even though you've cleaned-out all FS9 filesfrom the Scenery\World\Scenery folder. To be sure, you should also disable all add-on scenery from the Scenery Library (as a test) to be sure.

If you are certain:

there are no other FS9 files affecting FSX
the FS9 file you converted is OK
there is adequate parking at the airports you are checking, and
the required aircraft exist in FS9

please send me the traffic file that doesn't work and I see if I can figure out why.

Don

[bkircher]

Ok will check later today. THanks for the help!

[gadgets]

There's a tiny error in my reply below. In the fourth bullet, the version reference should have been FSX.

Don

[bkircher]

I tried what you all said, and it partially works. I removed all of the fs9 traffic files and put in the two that I converted for fsx, US Airways and Express. And when I loaded the sim, there still was nothing. I loaded the sim at like 11 am in PHX. I looked for other ai traffic in the area and there were only 3-4 other planes in the area, In real life there should have been way more than that.

I didnt see any of the express planes. Its like theirs no density to it, when I normally have my ai set to 100%.

[bobbyjack]

Bkircher

Were the 3 or 4 other planes U S Airways ( maybe even Express )or default AI? If they were neither, than you still have an FS9 FP in there somewhere. Tell us what those planes were.

Bob

[bkircher]

I removed all traffic files from the scenery/world/scenery folder. And added the US AIrways fps. They were not default fps. The 3-4 that I did see where US Airways not express. I dont know where else I would have traffic files for the sim to see.

[gadgets]

A sure way to test whether or not the problem is FS9 traffic files is to compile the file you are testing for FS9 and see if it works. If it does, there's another FS9 file somewhere. If it doesn't, then the problem lies elsewhere. I assume you've checked that the required aircraft are in you FSX "stable".

Given that the a/c you are seeing are US Airways, they won't be default traffic. Do you have default traffic enabled? If so, and you're not seeing any default traffic, that's another indication that is a FS9 file. Also, do you know what file is generating that US airways traffic. If it's not one of your FSX files, that should tell you something.

If you want me to look at your FSX trafic file, please send it to me right away. I'm leaving town early tomorrow morning and won't have access to my development machine for several days. (I will be monitoring the forum, however.)

Don

[bkircher]

Ok. Thats all fine and good, but the thing is that, I have the US Airways mainline and Express compiled into seperate bgls. So the only traffic bgls that I have in the sim is the 2 that were converted. Yes I have default traffic installed, but I removed that bgl from the scenery folder.

So I dont know what else to do. I have a bunch of woai stuff, but I removed them for this test.

here is a dl link to the bgls
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=WnBSSmI2UENWRCtGa1E9PQ

[gadgets]

Both files are OK. But there's one question that you still haven't answered explicitly. That is - Are all the required aircraft in your FSX "stable"?

I also note that all aircraft have a cruising speed of 220 kts. At that speed, many (most) can't adhere to the schedule and will be late. While I haven't studied it exhaustively, both FS9 and FSX start discarding AI that is more than about 20 minutes late . (Watch what happens in a long hold-short queue at a busy airport. And then there's the "37 minute problem".) Perhaps what you're seeing or, more correctly, not seeing, is another manifestation of this issue. Whether this is the problem or not, I don't know and I don't have time to explore before I leave.

What you might try is loading the bgls into AIFP (FS9 or FSX, it doesn't matter), restore the cruise speeds and re-compile.

I'll be monitoring the forum while I'm away. If I think of anything else, I'll let you know.

Good luck,
Don

[bobbyjack]

So you are saying the U S Airways FP works but the Express does not.

Did all of these FS9 FPs work as FS9 FPs? If you did not try them, then there could be parking radius problems. FSX has different parking rules than FS9.

If you could attach your two bgls, some one can look at them.

Bob

I see I was too slow in my reply

[bkircher]

Yes they worked as FS9 fps. Yes the aircraft have worked in fsx. A collection of AIA, FSP, AIG, TFS.... I have altered the radius settings to make them more compatible in the sim.

Thing is when I only have the USairways installed, the entire airport is empty. No planes what so ever. Even with the 3-4 I did see in the sim, I didnt think that was right for the time of day of when I loaded the flight. So something is wrong here. They work 100% percent as fs9, and still dont really know what the difference between fs9 fps and fsx fps are.

I read that the cruise speed for the planes should be 220 or so because it would reduce the amount of go-arounds.

Ill change the cruise speeds and will check it out.

[bobbyjack]

Bkircher

This may sound silly, but I think you should do a search of your computer to see if traffic files are where you think they should be. For example, my addon airports are in a folder completely outside of FSX. I have the library point to that folder so the airports show up. Sometime I forget where they are. I am thinking you have a stray traffic folder. Type "traffic" into your search box and see what comes up. I hope you are not sorry you started to change formats.

Bob

[bkircher]

It didnt come up with any other than the ones on my desktop, which are a back up to the ones im messing with atm.

[bobbyjack]

OK. I took your US Airways winter bgl, deleted all but the first FP, traded for a 737 that I have at default air speed(477 knots), put it in my sim and the plane shows up (as well as my default traffic). I checked at KBOS at 12:04. Don't give up. I will keep checking, but it would seem that the bgl is OK. Have you reset air speeds?

Bob

[bkircher]

Yes I have reset the air speeds. I am not sure of the results ATM because I have not really gotten to try it. I will report results when I get time. Thanks very much for all of the help.

[gadgets]

Bkircher, I'm very interested in your results, since I'm not able to experiment myself for another few days.

When AIFP converts a file, it compiles in the "normal" mode. That means that the cruise speeds are halved in the converted traffic file. But in the case of flight plans where the cruise speeds have already been adjusted outside AIFP, such as in your case, this halving by AIFP in fact makes the cruise speed in the traffic file less than one-quarter its normal value (i.e, the cruise speeds that show as 220 in the decompiled FPs are reduced to 110 in the traffic file.)

While it's not clear that that is causing the problems you are experiencing, I can think of one way that it might. Fortunately, all I have to do to resolve the issue (once I get back home) is to use the "raw" compile mode when converting.

In the meantime, if that is the problem, it's easily worked around by restoring the cruise speeds - which probably should be done anyway, or loading and compiling the FS9 traffic file instead of converting it.

Don

[bobbyjack]

Bkircher

Just to let you know, I converted your entire US Airways winter FP to use a default 737 wit default airspeed, and the plan seem to work fine. These are weekly plans so not many planes show up at one time aat any particular airport.

Bob

[bkircher]

I know, but for both US Airways and Express, every day at either 9am or 10 am at PHX, every gate should be taken at T4. I get that with US Airways but not express. With the express at that time, the most I get is 3-4 planes, when it should be triple that.
I changed the cruise speeds to 400 for the jets, and like 250 for props. Idk how to really tell the difference between what I had and didnt have. When I recompiled the bgls I used ttools because the aifp didnt work with the fsx stuff so thats what I did.

[bobbyjack]

OK , then, I'll try the other bgl.

I'll keep you posted.

Bob

[bobbyjack]

Again, modified your bgl to use a default plane and default airspeed. Lots of the proper planes and default traffic shoowed up. Your bgl works in my sim.

Are you running any addon scenery? I have none. I am almost starting to think you may need to run a repair form the FSX DVD.

Or do what I have done as a test.

Bob

[gadgets]

Bkircher, I just had a thought. In one of the posts below you note that you changed the radius of the airplanes. That doesn't work in FSX because the FSX AI engine uses the wingspan from the aircraft.cfg file, not the model radius as in FS9. In fact, I recall reading somewhere that modifying the radius in FSX can cause other problems - perhaps the one you are seeing.

That being said, if everything works in FS9, you should be able to take the required FS9 aircaft folders, install them in the FSX\SimObject\Airplanes folder, and duplicate the FS9 operation - without converting the traffic file. (Of course, you'll want to convert the traffic file at some point - but lets isolate the prolem before worrying about that.)

Don

[bkircher]

Yes I have addon scenery, just an afcad that I made for phx.

Send me your converted us airways bgl plz. Lemme try it.

I did not change the radius of the airplanes, I changed the radius/gate size of the gates in the afcad. I didnt touch the radius in the .air file.

IDK what else to do, because it works fine in fs9 format. I have no issues what so ever. Im beggining to wonder why I even bothered to go down this whole road.

[bobbyjack]

Here is my bgl.

Bob

[bkircher]

I still dont see any ai with that. O well

[bobbyjack]

What happens if you convert my bgl to FS9 format? As you saw, my bgl uses the default white 737 with a red stripe.

Bob

[bkircher]

I didnt see any 737s. Its fine dont worry about. They seem to work just fine in FS9 format. Which im ok with.

Thanks for all of the great help tho.

[bobbyjack]

Did you use the FS9 tool AFCAD to modify PHX? I wonder if this is part of the reason FSX bgls are not showing up. Just thinking out loud.

Bob

[bkircher]

Nope, I used ade, which was designed exclusively for fsx.

[bkircher]

I got another question,

Im here in PHX about to push back, and I see other ai planes, just pop up at the gate, like they didnt actually land and taxi to the gate. Is there a way to reduce when that happens. Just today, ive seen it happen 3-4 times

[gadgets]

An AI that is scheduled to land more than about ten minutes prior to the startup of flightsim will not land but will spawn in place for departure. Thats' the way FSX works, so there's not much you can do about it. However, if these aircraft were scheduled to land while the sim was operating but do not, then there's a problem somewhere.

If the latter situation, what does Traffic Toolbox Exploer say abouth these AI?

Don

[bkircher]

Right I understand that and all. But I was at my gate for 15-20 minutes and I saw 3-4 planes appear out of no where.

"Traffic Toolbox Exploer" what is that??

[gadgets]

Were those aircraft scheduled to land during that period?

Refer to the SDK for info on Traffic Toolbox. If you don't have the SDK, I suggest you get Traffic Analyser or one of the other freeware traffic analysis utilities to help you determine what's going n.

Don

[bobbyjack]

This just seems like part of the continuing problem of using FS9 FPs in FSX. As I recall, FS9 allowed very close arrival and departure times. they could even overlap. A plane could land, park, and take off again right away. I know we can't get FSX plans to work in your sim. Just offering a possoble answer to why planes pop in out of nowhere.

Bob

[bkircher]

I am not sure. I would assume so since they appeared out of no where during that time frame.

[gadgets]

bkircher, the first step in helping you resolve a problem is to confirm you have a problem. The fact that something happens that surprises you or that you'd rather not have happen does not, by itself, constitite a problem. What you are seeing may well be normal FSX operation.

You have the flight plan data, so you know (or can determine) when these aircraft were scheduled to arrive.

If you want our help, you've got to provide us with the information we ask for. Otherwise, all we can do is guess.

Don

[bobbyjack]

What that means is , the next time you see one of your planes pop up at a gate, you need to be able to identify it and the time it poped up. Go to your flight plan file and see when that plane was supposed to land and take off again.

If you have the Deluxe FSX, the SDK is on the DVD and is installed separately from FSX. You'll have to dig around and find out how to install traffic tool box. this tool is excellent for tracking AI.

You can also right click on the sky in FSX and select views of AI, but that is less efficient.

Bob

[bkircher]

Ok, how do I use the traffic tool box. I have the sdx installed so that is not an issue. I also dont really know how to read a flight plan so ya. LOL

WIll the traffic view board work???

Also is there a way to disable the ai from requesting fuel trucks??? Im watching the ai here, witht he traffic board, and if they have requested fuel, they are being held up because they are waiting for it.

[bobbyjack]

Open AIFP. From the Flightplans menu, select Open Flightplan from BGL. Brouse to where you store your plans in FSX. Select the FP of interest. Open. AIFP loads that plan. Double click (as a test) the first line in the list on the left. All the info about that plan come up in the interface. This will help you learn what all the stuff in an FP is. The two plans we have seen from you are weekly plans and are more difficult to work with than daily or hourly plans.

Add some vehicle parking and that will put more fuel truks out. May or may not help with waiting times. Your FPs tend to put alot of traffic at airports, which I think can clog things up.

You have to read through the SDK help file to find how to install it in the sim. I'm not at my FSX box right now to tell you where.

Bob

[bobbyjack]

Traffic View Board is an FS9 utility. Sure would be nice if you could stick to things for FSX.

Bob

[bkircher]

There isnt necessarly a dedicated utility for fsx, that does this kind of thing. The Traffic view board works quite well I think in fsx.