Attachpt Dialog - Y & Z axis swapped

[BASys]

Hi Folks

Arno -
Mean't to raise previously. :o

The attachpoint dialog coordinates entry box
has y and z axis swapped,
and also fsx axis non-compliant.



Initially placing the attachpoint by observation
places marker at chosen position.

After exporting and then reloading
the attachpoints are displaced by y/z swap.

Most obvious working with a very big object. :D



EDIT -
May be related to -
- On initial load model displays in correct orientation.
- On adding any attachpoint, model is displayed vertically



EDIT 2 -
Workaround for the monment.

After exporting and then reloading
the attachpoints are displaced by y/z swap.

These can then be corrected by editing by observation.

Effectively its only the creation that actually causes the error.



HTH
ATB
Paul

[arno]

Paul,

I will take a better look at this over the weekend. I did a quick test now and my results are:


When importing a FSX MDL, adding an effects results in the building being flipped
When loading a API macro this does not happen
After exporting, it seems there are some issues opening the FSX MDL with the attached effect


It is obvious something is wrong here, I will take a look at that. Adding attachpoints should not affect the geometry at all.

About the axes. ModelConverterX is designed to work in other axes that FS uses internally. So it is not the Y but the Z axis pointing upwards. This means that in ModelConverterX you specify the height as the Z coordinate. Is that part of the Y - Z swap you are mentioning? In that case it is by design to be easier to use.

[BASys]

Hi Folks

Cheers Arno.



re: Y/Z swap
No

Issue is -
- Add & position light attachpt by visual observation
- Compile
- Reload into MCX
- Lights are displaced, (longitudinal displacement is now vertical displacement).

e.g.
Take a supertanker model
Add lights to bridge and foremast locations.
Compile
Reload into MCX
Bridge lights are now 80m below model centre
Foremast light is 80 m above model centre



Other info -
X axis is also reversed,
i.e. Port light appears on Stbd.



HTH
ATB
Paul

[arno]

Thanks Paul, will look into it tomorrow.

Are the objects you are importing API or FSX MDL? I assume you are exporting to FSX MDL?

[BASys]

Hi Folks

Arno -
They're imported FSX default models
and exported FSX models.

PS
May also explain wrong axis translations on moving parts.
e.g. EH101 external model's doors.

HTH
ATB
Paul

[arno]

I think those animation issues are different, since that only happens a very few objects. But I'll see, going to dive into it now.

[arno]

Hi Paul,

I found a few little bugs and now I can't reproduce your problem anymore. On my PC it seems to work as expected. Could you try the latest development release that I just put ready?

[BASys]

Hi Folks

Arno -
For simple un-animated models, (*_sm.mdl), everything works ok.

However,
for any animated models there's a serious problem. :D

On adding any attachpt, (even without entering values),
every component is exploded from the main model,
and remains disassociated after compilation.

Try adding an attachpt, (any type),
to any FSX default aircraft,
or vessel with animated gulls,
and you'll see what I mean.



Previous versions
Some recent versions appear to have had a problem with rendering,
displaying extended triangles of textures,
which I'd attributed to an issue with my video card.

Though also had that previously fixed CTD
after opening, generally 3, consecutive models.

Latest version
Appears to have addressed these issues,
and for the same model,
now loads substantially faster. :D



Other Issues -
Can you please investigate the following -

Attached Object Editor

Dialog Box Size
Make the dialog box resizable,
or at least 50% wider.

Active Attachpoint
When creating or editing attachpoints,
could you make the active attachpoint a different colour, e.g. yellow.



Texture Loading - Related to above
For me,
the last couple of versions, (including latest),
haven't been rendering textures onto the displayed model,
but only if the textures are sourced from either -
[FSXPATH]\texture;[FSXPATH]\scenery\global\texture

Material Editor displays these correctly.

My texture loading path is -
texture;..\texture;..\..\texture;[FSXPATH]\texture;[FSXPATH]\scenery\global\texture

I've noticed that when the icon bar's - Display attached objects

- Is inactive - The model is rendered as white all-over.

- Is active - The model's texture displays correctly,
but only after having edited an attachpoint,
or reloading a previously exported model.

This occurs even when both
the original and exported models are in the same folder.



EDIT -
Attachpt Numbering
Can you explain please how you've implemented these ?

I'd named mine appropriately,
yet additional, apparently unrelated, digit(s) were appended.



Attachpt & LODs
Would it be possible to -

When initially creating -
- work as currently
- apply same effect to all LODs
- but create different attachpt for each LOD, (number to match).

When editing -
- only allow repositioning in top LOD, (reposition others to match).
- allow different effects for each LOD, (allows realisitic distance visibility).



Attached Object Editor
List of attachpts is not refreshed on renaming an attachpt,
unless an additional attachpt is added or removed,
or the dialog is closed and reopened.

Please refresh on changes.



Selected Attachpt
Can the currently selected attachpt
appear as higlighted in the attachpt listing.

When making complex edits
or trying to Port/Stbd match locations,
it's awkward to remember which one you're working with.



HTH
ATB
Paul

[arno]

Hi,

For simple un-animated models, (*_sm.mdl), everything works ok.

However,
for any animated models there's a serious problem. :D

OK, will test tomorrow for an animated object. All tests where done with non-animated ones today indeed.

Dialog Box Size
Make the dialog box resizable,
or at least 50% wider.

OK, should probably be easy to do. I'll put it on the list.

Active Attachpoint
When creating or editing attachpoints,
could you make the active attachpoint a different colour, e.g. yellow.

Good idea, will put that on the list as well.

Texture Loading - Related to above
For me,
the last couple of versions, (including latest),
haven't been rendering textures onto the displayed model,
but only if the textures are sourced from either -
[FSXPATH]\texture;[FSXPATH]\scenery\global\texture

Material Editor displays these correctly.

My texture loading path is -
texture;..\texture;..\..\texture;[FSXPATH]\texture;[FSXPATH]\scenery\global\texture

It is weird that they do work in the material editor, since the same code is used to locate them. But it sounds like something might be wrong with the FSXPATH value on your machine. I'll try tomorrow to see if I can find traces of this in the code or if I can reproduce it on my machine.

I've noticed that when the icon bar's - Display attached objects

- Is inactive - The model is rendered as white all-over.

- Is active - The model's texture displays correctly,
but only after having edited an attachpoint,
or reloading a previously exported model.

This occurs even when both
the original and exported models are in the same folder.

I will have to dig in the code for this, might be a bug with the graphics state or so. I have not seen this on my machine before.

Attachpt Numbering
Can you explain please how you've implemented these ?

I'd named mine appropriately,
yet additional, apparently unrelated, digit(s) were appended.

I'll check the source code tomorrow, but by default the name contains a number (probably the index into the attachpoint list). If you rename they should not appear I think, but I have to check that.

Attachpt & LODs
Would it be possible to -

When initially creating -
- work as currently
- apply same effect to all LODs
- but create different attachpt for each LOD, (number to match).

When editing -
- only allow repositioning in top LOD, (reposition others to match).
- allow different effects for each LOD, (allows realisitic distance visibility).

I have to check this, I think currently the attachpoints have no LOD at all and are visible always. I will check this.

[BASys]

Hi Folks

Cheers Arno.

For clarity/ensuring all issues are addressed -

I was possibly further editing
whilst you composed you response.

Confirmation/followup of latter issues appreciated.

ATB
Paul

[arno]

Hi Paul,

The only new item I see that you probably added while I was typing my reply is the list of attachpoints not refreshing. I'l take a look at that one as well.

[arno]

Paul,

I think I have fixed most of your issues.

Attachpoint editor can be resized
Problems with attaching to animated objects fixed
The list is updated when the names are changed
No more unexpected numbers in the name after exporting
Selected object rendered in a different colour


There are also a few things that I could not (yet) fix:


Levels of details for attachpoints, I have to check how this can be stored in the MDL file
I could not reproduce your problem with the textures from the global\texture folder. When they do not load do you see the checkerboard pattern or something else?
Same for the problem with the textures not showing correct when the attachpoints are not shown, I could not reproduce that here. Do you have some more information?


PS. I put a new development release ready, so you don't have to wait for tonight's build.

[BASys]

Hi Folks

Arno -
Cheers for the update.
I could not reproduce your problem with the textures from the global\texture folder. When they do not load do you see the checkerboard pattern or something else?

Same for the problem with the textures not showing correct when the attachpoints are not shown, I could not reproduce that here. Do you have some more information?
My apologies,
I'd forgotten to mention -
Checkerboard does not display.
Model is displayed as white all over.

Possibly related -
When the texture is displayed, (after adding an attachpt or an exported model),
it shows on all LODs, except LOD10.
NB
If I then add an attchpt, texture shows in LOD10.
But is missing again from LOD10 after an export/import cycle.



EDIT 2 -
Issue still exists in Current latest version.

However
now incorporates a new aspect
when toggling on the menu icon - Display grid
it will display the texture immediately, (without any attachpt editing).
Toggling off Display grid model then shows as white.



EDIT -
Selected Attachpt
Can the currently selected attachpt
appear as higlighted in the attachpt listing.

When making complex edits
or trying to Port/Stbd match locations,
it's awkward to remember which one you're working with.



EDIT 3 -
Further info
issue appears to be model related
SimObjects\Boats\VEH_water_cruiseship1_sm - always renders as white
SimObjects\Boats\VEH_water_cruiseship2_sm - renders texture correctly

Which may explain why after exporting they render correctly.

Mean't to mention, MCX event log contains no errors.



EDIT 4 -
Ability to toggle texture on/off is actually useful,
and should be available as a menu icon. :D



HTH
ATB
Paul

[arno]

Hi Paul,

Also with those cruise ships I can not reproduce the error here. I toggled the grid and attachpoint display, but not difference. If this only happens for you with those models and other models work OK it might be something specific to the model. Let me know if you see it with more models, since then it might indicate a more structural bug.

Toggling display of the texture is a nice idea. Showing wireframe is already on my wishlist, I will add this one as well.

I have fixed the highlighting of the attachpoint, before it was disabled when the focus was lost.

[BASys]

Hi Folks

If this only happens for you with those models
and other models work OK
it might be something specific to the model.

Let me know if you see it with more models,
since then it might indicate a more structural bug.
Arno -
It happens with every [FSXPATH]\scenery\global\texture model
which I've looked at to date,
except VEH_water_cruiseship2_sm.mdl

I'd only quoted those 2 vessels
so you could comparisson test/investigate.

As previously,
it's only a fairly recent version issue, (since summer).

HTH
ATB
Paul

[BASys]

Hi Folks

Arno -
Realised I'd forgotten to mention -

Although the main section of the model is white,
anything that uses the transparent texture
is rendered correctly.

Not particularly obvious
as on the vessel models
it's generally only the guard rails that use these,
and they're usually grey,
and very small components c/f the vessel. :D



EDIT -
Further info
Getting closer. :D

If a model only uses a single texture,
e.g. SimObjects\Boats\Veh_Istanbul_CarFerry_Sm

The components that utilise transparent bits
are rendered as textured
but the main part is stil white.



HTH
ATB
Paul

[arno]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the additional information, I'll try again to reproduce it here.

In the event log, do you see the messages that the textures have been loaded successfully or not?

[BASys]

Hi Folks

In the event log,
do you see the messages
that the textures have been loaded successfully or not?
Arno -
MCX event log contains no errors.
Textures are listed as loading ok.

HTH
ATB
Paul

[arno]

Hi Paul,

I have made available a new development release where I optimized the loading of textures a bit. Maybe this will help with your issue?

I still can't reproduce it on my machine here, so that makes things more difficult.

[arno]

Hi Paul,

For the materials/colours, could you check this thread (http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17886) and try it out? Thanks.