How to sync ADE w/ SBuilderX [Archive]

Bob Keeshan

02 Jan 2008, 15:38

scruffyduck

02 Jan 2008, 16:45

How are you setting up the image position in ADE Bob?

Bob Keeshan

02 Jan 2008, 16:51

How are you setting up the image position in ADE Bob?

Aligning and sizing based on the runways. I will shrink/align the image so it fits precisely with the runway(s). This is based on the initial ADE threads where that method was prescribed.

scruffyduck

02 Jan 2008, 17:06

OK and that is the best method for designing aiports where the relationship between elements is the most important thing. I can't remember exactly how SBX does it but I think it uses top left and bottom right coordinates. One option that might work would be to determine the top and bottom coordinates of the image in ADE using the mouse and readouts (these are pretty accurate at reasonable zoom levels) and then use those to set the image in SBX.

Alternatively ADE allows you to set up an image using top and bottom corners if you know them accurately

You may then find that the airport in FSX is off to some extent.

I guess it comes down to which app to wnat to sync to the other

Bob Keeshan

02 Jan 2008, 21:43

OK and that is the best method for designing aiports where the relationship between elements is the most important thing. I can't remember exactly how SBX does it but I think it uses top left and bottom right coordinates. One option that might work would be to determine the top and bottom coordinates of the image in ADE using the mouse and readouts (these are pretty accurate at reasonable zoom levels) and then use those to set the image in SBX.

How do you personally work with airports where you have the airport element layout along with the scenery elements? Do you have the same "alignment issue" when you use two different programs, etc.? I guess I want to make sure I'm being efficient in how I'm developing the airport. I will try to use the alignment option you mentioned above; however, from your post it seems like this isn't an issue for you. I'm just curious how to best do it then.

Thanks again.

jvile

03 Jan 2008, 05:08

Bob

You may be entering unchartered territory's. Some of us have tested the image underlays but I personally have not done comparisons to other Utilities like SBX.

I can say that I have used both Google Earth Plus and current Jeppesen charts which for the most part agree with larger airport runways and taxiways in FSX. Scenery on the other hand is a little different and a compromise may have to be used.

What I have found is Building and Terminal scenery is not always positioned/scaled perfectly in FSX. I have moved some Buildings as per Google Earth plus and rescaled using the XML scaler factor attribute. However alot of the scenery buildings and Terminals are full models rather then building blocks as seen in FS9.

I wanted to correct a Main Terminal size and position as per GEPlus at a major airport but because the Main Terminal is a full model there was no way to add the correct distance between 2 Terminal Buildings because they are locked together in the model.mdl (unlike FS9). I had to compromise how I scaled and the positon I set the reference point of the Main Terminal.

If my thinking is correct you are trying to bring 2 different Utilities together that address 2 different issues. One is a visual scenery Utility for the airport (SBX) and one is a ground behavior utility for aircraft movement (ADE).

You may never see 2 different Utilities align perfectly until one of the Utilities offers both areas you are working with (hint hint).

George and James has a lot more experience in this area. Lets see what they have to offer as a solution.

Bob Keeshan

03 Jan 2008, 09:15

If my thinking is correct you are trying to bring 2 different Utilities together that address 2 different issues. One is a visual scenery Utility for the airport (SBX) and one is a ground behavior utility for aircraft movement (ADE).

You may never see 2 different Utilities align perfectly until one of the Utilities offers both areas you are working with (hint hint).

Jim,

Thanks again for your help. With ADE I can usually get precise alignment with the runways using GE or VE imagery. Once it is aligned I begin making my changes to the taxiways, aprons, etc. I then use SBuilderX to take the same GE or VE imagery and begin my work with the scenery elements. I have found that when I do this, the element I placed in ADE using the image is not in the same place in SBuilderX. It is usually off by several meters in one direction or another. So, what I end up doing is adjusting the scenery element in SBuilderX, checking it in FSX, adjust again, check again, etc., until the element is aligned.

BTW, as long as you're hinting, it would be great if said utility included the ability to see/modify/add generic buildings. That is the one thing that I think SBuilderX lacks from a scenery building perspective. It would be great if we could merge SBuilderX, ADE, and Whisplacer into one utility, and when you compile you get one or two .bgls, not 4 or 5. I know you .xml gurus know how to combine .bgls, but I'm not there yet.

Speaking of .xml, when I try the "view xml" command in ADE, it doesn't seem to work (or at least, I don't see any .xml code). Is there something I'm missing here? I'd like to begin working with .xml to learn how to implement the combination techniques you guys talk about.

jvile

03 Jan 2008, 11:45

Speaking of .xml, when I try the "view xml" command in ADE, it doesn't seem to work

kind of a teaser :D

It is not turned on yet :mad: and is part of the Pro Version we are working with behind the scene.

BTW, as long as you're hinting, it would be great if said utility included the ability to see/modify/add generic buildings. That is the one thing that I think SBuilderX lacks from a scenery building perspective. It would be great if we could merge SBuilderX, ADE, and Whisplacer into one utility,

Now your thinking in the same direction as some. Lets just reiterate that ADE Home Edition is a novice Utility that has code locks installed so if I am working on my small home town GA airport I can't get into too much trouble. You wrap your arms around ADE Home and now say I want more power. Its on the way.

Bob Keeshan

03 Jan 2008, 13:39

Now your thinking in the same direction as some. Lets just reiterate that ADE Home Edition is a novice Utility that has code locks installed so if I am working on my small home town GA airport I can't get into too much trouble. You wrap your arms around ADE Home and now say I want more power. Its on the way.

I'm sure I have a lot more to learn with ADE home ed. What would be nice as well would be to incorporate a lot of the discussions we have here about parking, placement, ILS changes, scenery, etc. into the documentation for ADE Home. For instance, under parking / gate / ramp placement, incude a general discussion about ATC parking theory/methodology, give practical examples, and provide step-by-step application instructions. Afterall, it's we novices that need the most direction.

BTW, If you guys need someone to help with compiling / editing all the info into the "newbie docs," I'd be willing to lend a hand. I'll dust off my undergrad English degree and break out my R.W. Pence grammar text. And, I might just learn a lot more about airport design in the process... :)

jvile

03 Jan 2008, 14:30

For instance, under parking / gate / ramp placement, incude a general discussion about ATC parking theory/methodology, give practical examples, and provide step-by-step application instructions. Afterall, it's we novices that need the most direction.

We have a ADE web Site ready for all Tutorials and related post to place there.

BTW, If you guys need someone to help with compiling / editing all the info into the "newbie docs," I'd be willing to lend a hand.

Will pass that on to Jon. He is traveling for the next few days.

What I am looking for is someone that knows how to write a .htm Tutorial similar to the AFCAD2 readme. I need good pictures from ADE for the future tutorials I am writing on various "How To's" (approach code, crosswind runway's, curved approaches for AI, etc.).

Luis_Sá

06 Jan 2008, 23:04

Bob Keeshan

07 Jan 2008, 12:50

Gypsy Baron

07 Jan 2008, 16:27

In redesigning a local municipal airport (KSGH), I'm using both ADE and SBuilderX. I'm using ADE to rework the taxiways/aprons and SBuilderX to work with exclusions, scenery, and objects. For both, I am using a Visual Earth image as the background for alignment and measurments. The problem that I am having is that when I place an apron based on the image in ADE, it is not in the same place compared to the image in SBuilderX. How do I set up ADE and SBuilderX so that when I align one element in one application, it is in the same spot in another?

Thank you.

When I'm using both tools at the same time to do
similar things I also have FSX fired up and use it as
the "link" between the two.
Using the ADE "move aircraft to here" or the similar
operation in SBuilerX, I can then use the crosshair
posititon in both utilities to get correct alignment\correlation.

Paul

scott967

07 Jan 2008, 18:28

As indicated, the problem is knowing what to use as "ground truth". It's a little easier in the US, because there are often multiple sources of data which can be cross checked. When I want precision, I make a map from background image in SBX and load that into Global Mapper GIS software. That way I can mix and match various data sources. I like the old DAFIF which used to be updated but went off line a year or so ago. It was a good source of runway and ILS antenna positions. The hard part about dealing with ADE and sim, is that most sources give the positions of runway thresholds, while ADE and BGLComp use the runway centerpoint.

At any rate, in many cases I can validate the geoposition of the SBX map and then use that in all design utilities that allow for maps. In some cases I have to do some reposition.

Of course in areas like China, where there isn't any data online, I have to just trust the background image and go with it.

scott s.
.

bob5568

07 Jan 2008, 18:55

I'm not adding much to this discussion, but it reminded me of some design work I've just been doing.

I've used runways as the reference myself in the past, its logical. But it can be as much a variable as anything else.

I just added extreme resolution photography (1m)over Kauai, just for fun (we spent a week there over the holidays). I used georeferenced photos, which were composited from USGS DOQQs. No way to be sure of the precision in the compositing process or the initial georeferencing of the doqq, but anyway I placed the images using the present georeferencing without regard to any runways.

There are three airports of note on Kauai, Pt Roberts, Princeville, and Barking Sands.

Pt Roberts and Princeville runways appeared extremely closely to the image, just a tiny amount of runway image shows beneath the FSX runway. BUT!!!!!! Barking Sands runway is about two runway widths inland from the image of Barking Sands on the photo. Since this is a Navy Base, the runway widths are substantial!

Now, I tend to trust the image, as the mountains just east of Barking Sands on the image and the 10m dem data of Kauai line up nicely. So...I suspect the data for Barking Sands that MS used is in error.

So..there you go...if your airport of choice was Barking Sands...I suspect you'd have no hope of finding the two tools lining up.

Enjoy!

Bob

meshman

08 Jan 2008, 00:48

withdrawn.

Bob Keeshan

08 Jan 2008, 10:59

Barking Sands runway is about two runway widths inland from the image of Barking Sands on the photo. Since this is a Navy Base, the runway widths are substantial!

Bob, so in your case you have a couple options, right? Move the entire runway or use what MSFS gives you and work around it.

Given the ILS complexities, I would be inclined to use what I had and work around it.

bob5568

08 Jan 2008, 13:29

If this was payware, I'd redo the airport. Simply because the airport default is a dissatisfier to anyone who is a paying customer.

This is really not commercially viable work...(essentially due to megasceneries market position in Hawaii)..I'm just having fun.

Bob

Bob Keeshan

09 Jan 2008, 09:11

Hi Bob,

I have just seen your post ... Is the problem resolved? I do not think that you can get "usually off by several meters in one direction or another". As Jon pointed out the way to switch from one tool to another is to use "border coordinates" to place the backgrounds.

Luis,

I tried making a "map" from background in SBuilderX to import into ADE, and visa versa. How do I export the Virtual Earth images in SBuilderX using border coordinates? [edit: I understand how create the file, but for some reason I can't find a good way to import it into either ADE or Whisplacer]

Also, for ADE, how do you determine what the border coordinates are of the stock airport you're working on? What I did was go to the top left of the screen and record the coords, then went to the bottom right of the screen and recorded the coords. Then, I saved the image and brought it over to SBuilderX and Whisplacer. Is there an easier (better) way to get the border coords in ADE?

One thing I did notice in doing this was when I took coords at the center of the ADE airport (where two runways cross) and plugged those coords into SBuilderX, the VE background images in SBuilderX were not aligned to the same spot. The same coords aligned to the right of the runway x-xing by several meters. This explains why I was having problems with alignment with my previous airport.

scruffyduck

09 Jan 2008, 11:35

Also, for ADE, how do you determine what the border coordinates are of the stock airport you're working on? What I did was go to the top left of the screen and record the coords, then went to the bottom right of the screen and recorded the coords. Then, I saved the image and brought it over to SBuilderX and Whisplacer. Is there an easier (better) way to get the border coords in ADE?

I am not sure I understand the question. ADE references everything off the Airport Reference Point to draw the airport spacially. At any time the co-ordinates of the mouse position are displayed at the top left and bottom left of the screen. These are accurate to within a very small tolerance. If you add a background image and size it to match a major feature such as a runway then The image will be placed accurately as far as that feature is concerned and the relationship with different features in the background image should be quite accurate. Of course this is relative positioning and not absolute positioning so if the reference object is off in some way then the whole background image and it's features will also be off.

The alternative method is to use absolute positioning using known corners of the image. for this to work you need to know the coordinates of the top left and bottom right of the image. There are some tools that will do that for you I think when downloading a google earth or similar image. If you add the background image that way then ADE will use the top left coordinates to pin the top left corner and calculate the width and height of the image from the bottom right coordinates. This is an accurate process since ADE using algorithms that take account of spherical geometry.

Now if you use absolute positioning then you may find the airport features themselves are now displaced. If there are no approaches or navaids associated with the runways then you could move the facilities to match the image. If there are such things then you potentially have a bigger problem.

You can determine the top lft and bottom right locations of a background image in ADE by using the read-outs. If you have used the same background image in ADE and SBuilderX then I think you could place it in SBX at the same place and dimensions. ADE and SBX use rather different methods to store and scale the display but I think that the co-ordinate systems used by both should match.

ADE does have information about the bounding box of an airport (top left and bottom right) but that is determined by the positions of the outermost elements of the airport elements plus a small margin. It is used to create the exclusion for taxi signs when loading a stock airport and also to determine if other items like scenery objects that are stored outside the airport in the stock files are actually within the airport (no you can't see this either it is a future version function :))

Bob Keeshan

09 Jan 2008, 12:19

You can determine the top lft and bottom right locations of a background image in ADE by using the read-outs. If you have used the same background image in ADE and SBuilderX then I think you could place it in SBX at the same place and dimensions. ADE and SBX use rather different methods to store and scale the display but I think that the co-ordinate systems used by both should match.

Okay. So would you then recommend the "best way" to get corner coords is to mouse up to the top left and down to the bottom right to get these coords using the read-outs, or is there a function w/in ADE that provides these for you? (e.g. image/workspace properties) In other words, based on the zoom and positioning of the airport in ADE, the "image" coords in ADE would be automatically placed in a properties box.

It is used to create the exclusion for taxi signs when loading a stock airport and also to determine if other items like scenery objects that are stored outside the airport in the stock files are actually within the airport (no you can't see this either it is a future version function :))

You guys working on ADE are such a tease... :)

scruffyduck

09 Jan 2008, 13:36

Okay. So would you then recommend the "best way" to get corner coords is to mouse up to the top left and down to the bottom right to get these coords using the read-outs, or is there a function w/in ADE that provides these for you? (e.g. image/workspace properties) In other words, based on the zoom and positioning of the airport in ADE, the "image" coords in ADE would be automatically placed in a properties box.

At the moment you need to use the mouse to get bottom right. The properties window for an image (Right Click -> Edit with an image selected) shows top left and width/height. Actually diplaying bottom right co-ordinates is trivial and I have added that to the list for the next released build.

You guys working on ADE are such a tease...

We do our best :)

scott967

09 Jan 2008, 14:53

I'm not sure if this is what you asking, or you already know it, but in SBX, when you create a map from a background it creates a bmp file, and a companion txt file. The txt file has the coordinates of the corners whcih you can then enter in ADE. For screenshots, it would be nice to have an FSX-compatible version of CellGrid2004a to overlay a LOD13 grid. Then you could crop your screenshot to the grid and get an accurate corner position.

scott s.
.

Bob Keeshan

09 Jan 2008, 15:02

At the moment you need to use the mouse to get bottom right. The properties window for an image (Right Click -> Edit with an image selected) shows top left and width/height. Actually diplaying bottom right co-ordinates is trivial and I have added that to the list for the next released build.

Thanks for the clarification and the add!

Bob Keeshan

09 Jan 2008, 15:05

I'm not sure if this is what you asking, or you already know it, but in SBX, when you create a map from a background it creates a bmp file, and a companion txt file. The txt file has the coordinates of the corners whcih you can then enter in ADE.

I knew about the BMP, but not the text file. BTW, when I tried to import the BMP into Whisplacer, it didn't work for me.

As for the coords, if the coords are not the same as the coords in ADE (like I discovered with VE imagery in SBuilderX), that would mean I'd have to realign everything for it to match, right? I'm not sure I want to do that just quite yet. I'd rather use ADE as the "truth", and adjust the image around it.

scruffyduck

09 Jan 2008, 16:40

I'd rather use ADE as the "truth", and adjust the image around it.

Unless you are looking for absolute on the ground accuracy for the airport in relation to it's surroundings I personally think that is the way to go :)

Luis_Sá

09 Jan 2008, 20:29

I'd rather use ADE as the "truth", and adjust the image around it.

Hello,

Once you choose the "truth" you do not want it to change. Therefore it would be a good think if different tools could exchange backgrounds (the ones that represent the "truth"). ADE has the possibility to rotate a rectangular background which is not supported in SBuilderX. But for non rotated backgrounds I see no reason why we could agree on a format for interchange of image backgrounds. SBuilderX exports a small TXT file like this:

[GEOGRAPHIC]
Name=MAP01
North=40.0041142222222
South=39.9958954722222
West=-10.0053691944444
East=-9.99464036111111

with the same basename as the background image. I can consider a different approach.

Kind Regards,

Luis

scruffyduck

10 Jan 2008, 01:42

Hello,

Once you choose the "truth" you do not want it to change. Therefore it would be a good think if different tools could exchange backgrounds (the ones that represent the "truth"). ADE has the possibility to rotate a rectangular background which is not supported in SBuilderX. But for non rotated backgrounds I see no reason why we could agree on a format for interchange of image backgrounds. SBuilderX exports a small TXT file like this:

[GEOGRAPHIC]
Name=MAP01
North=40.0041142222222
South=39.9958954722222
West=-10.0053691944444
East=-9.99464036111111

with the same basename as the background image. I can consider a different approach.

Kind Regards,

Luis

Luis I will add that to ADE also. How do you tie the image name to the image file itself - does it need the full path or are background images in SBuilder always in the same folder? ADE makes no assumption about background image folders at this time

Luis_Sá

10 Jan 2008, 08:08

Hi Jon,

That is great.

You can ignore the Name= in that example. SBuilderX keeps the full path to the file that stores the image. For example if it loads an image background from:

C:/FS_Folder/Images/X23Y56.JPG

It tests if the file:

C:/FS_Folder/Images/X23Y56.TXT

exists and if the first line of that file reads:

[GEOGRAPHIC]

If both are OK it checks for four numbers that follow North= West= .... and checks if they represent valid lat/lons values.

If the test fails at any stage, it asks the user to enter some calibartion. If the test succeeds it will use the positioning data and does not ask anything to the user. If (this is optional) if finds a string following Name= it uses it as the name for the map, otherwise gives a sequential name to the map.

Regards,

Luis

scruffyduck

10 Jan 2008, 08:13

Hi Luis

Thanks for that. I will use that information to implement a similar scheme for ADE with the test for a text file on loading a new image, as you suggest.

EDIT

The issues I can see are where an ADE users re-sizes an image - the text file will need to be updated when that is done I think. Also there would be a problem if the image is rotated during setup.

Ayrsimming

10 Jan 2008, 08:35

Hi Bob

If you save your image in SBuilder as a background you should get a Geotiff file plus text file with the corner co-ordinates.
If you then open the Geotiff file in 'Windows Picture and Fax Viewer' you can then resave the image in a format acceptable to ADE ( bmp/jpeg etc ). Then introduce the image to ADE and copy and paste the co-ordinates from the text file into the co-ordinates input in ADE. Both images should then be placed exactly the same in the two programs.

Iain
Scotflight Scenery

Bob Keeshan

10 Jan 2008, 09:22

scott967

10 Jan 2008, 17:43

Thanks for making SBX/ADE work in harmony like this.

scott s.
.

Bob Keeshan

11 Jan 2008, 00:22

Okay, I got SBuilderX in sync with ADE using the discussion above as a guide. Basically I snapped a VE image in SBuilderX, saved it in an acceptable format for ADE, aligned it to the runways in ADE, saved the ADE image with corner coords, and can now align in either SBuilderX or Whisplacer.

Now on to my next frustration... Because I want to add generic buildings to my airport, I'm using Whisplacer and aligning everything to the imagery that I've used with ADE. Alignment is working great with Whisplacer. However, I cannot for the life of me figure out how to do exclusion polys in Whisplacer to get rid of the default landclass. I can do exclusion rectangles, but not polys.

So, if exclusion polys aren't enabled in Whisplacer, how do I build one in SBuilderX and/or ADE and import it into Whisplacer? I tried to directly import the BGL but Whisplacer doesn't like SBuilder bgl and visa versa. Is there anything that I can do in ADE?

ARRGH! If only one tool did everything I wanted: generic buildings, library objects, airport design, exclusion polys and rectangles...

scruffyduck

11 Jan 2008, 04:32

Well we have thought about having one tool that did everything and SBuilder is probably the closest. I can't remember how far Luis has gotten with SBuilderX but I suspect it will do most everything you want except for the airport design itself.

You will have problems putting everything into one bgl. The format required for exclusions in FSX is different than for airport and object data so you need at least two. So you can partly blame MS for this :)

Getting rid of landclass involves using bgls created using Shp2Vec. So what are you using SBuilderX for at the moment? it can certainly create the landclass exclusions that you need.

When you talk about generic buildings are you really referring to those generic buildings created using XML and drawn by the FSX scenery engine or do you mean something else,

Bob Keeshan

11 Jan 2008, 09:12

When you talk about generic buildings are you really referring to those generic buildings created using XML and drawn by the FSX scenery engine or do you mean something else,

Yes, I know I can use SBuilderX to make exclusion landclass polys. However, I can't use SBuilderX to create / place generic buildings that you can see / create in Whisplacer. (At least, I haven't been able to figure out how.)

So, at this point, to do everything I want to do, I have a .bgl from SBuilderX for the exclusion stuff, a .bgl from Whisplacer for the objects, and a .bgl from ADE for the airport design. If I don't want to use generic buildings, I could just use SBuilderX and ADE. With generic buildings involved, is there a better way?

scruffyduck

11 Jan 2008, 10:12

Are you sure you can't place generic buildings with SBuilderX? You certainly could with SBuilder for FS(. Maybe Luis has not implemented that feature yet. But certainly in an airport environment I would use scenery objects. Airport buidings will be scenery objects and not generic buildings so I would not see a use for them at an airport. You can place scenery objects with SBX I am sure

Luis_Sá

11 Jan 2008, 10:35

Hi,

To clarify: Generic Buildings were never supported in SBuilderX or SBuilder for FS2004.

Regards,

Luis

meshman

11 Jan 2008, 10:39

withdrawn.

scruffyduck

11 Jan 2008, 10:46

Hi,

To clarify: Generic Buildings were never supported in SBuilderX or SBuilder for FS2004.

Regards,

Luis

Thanks Luis - my memory gets muddled rather too often these days!

scruffyduck

11 Jan 2008, 10:48

Jon, just a FWIW but at Lihue - PHLI and other airports in Hawai'i the use of generic buildings is common place. Some look quite nice and I'm wondering if they aren't utilized for performance purposes? I'd be curious to see what the effects are with 50 generics versus 50 scenery objects, if there's a gain or loss when flying the area? Something tells me code would be faster than objects??:confused:

Thanks Lance. Performance is hard to tell - intuitively I agree with you but I have never found FS performance goes the way I expect it to :)

Bob Keeshan

11 Jan 2008, 11:01

Airport buidings will be scenery objects and not generic buildings so I would not see a use for them at an airport. You can place scenery objects with SBX I am sure

Yes, most airport buildings I use are scenery objects, but I use generic buildings particularly to represent the long GA hangers used at most smaller airports. I haven't found a scenery object that quite fits that bill. Nor have I found a scenery object that makes a good airport terminal.

If I didn't want to use generic buildings, I'd stick with SBuilderX because it's a great app.

scruffyduck

11 Jan 2008, 11:07

OK Bob, well we will just have to keep developing software until it does meet all the needs of our users :)

Of course SDE TestApp allows you to insert generic buildings into an airport file created by ADE - and Scenery objects as well - in fact just about anything that is BglComp based But, of course it does not have a GUI interface and is not user friendly :o. The only thing you can't do with it is to make flattens and excludes. Maybe one day I will get a GUI interface for that..........id I can ever figure out al lthe ins and outs of airport design

Bob Keeshan

11 Jan 2008, 11:28

OK Bob, well we will just have to keep developing software until it does meet all the needs of our users :)

Jon, I appreciate all the help that both you and Luis have been. You guys have developed two great apps in ADE and SBuilderX. I hope you don't view my comments as criticism, because what I'm saying is not meant that way. I'm kinda thinking out loud while I'm trying to figure out the "best practices" on airport design. Considering three months ago I didn't know anything about scenery / airport design, your two apps have been great learning resources for me.

Every airport project I start, I learn something new. It's been a great experience and lots of fun.

scruffyduck

11 Jan 2008, 11:37

Jon, I appreciate all the help that both you and Luis have been. You guys have developed two great apps in ADE and SBuilderX. I hope you don't view my comments as criticism, because what I'm saying is not meant that way. I'm kinda thinking out loud while I'm trying to figure out the "best practices" on airport design. Considering three months ago I didn't know anything about scenery / airport design, your two apps have been great learning resources for me.

Every airport project I start, I learn something new. It's been a great experience and lots of fun.

Bob you can be sure that I did not take it the wrong way :D

Bob Keeshan

14 Jan 2008, 11:06

I went back to using SBuilderX for my KOSU project. I used the procedures discussed in this thread to align the background images and everything is sync'd. I am not using generic buildings (obviously), but I did find a decent replacement for the long GA hangers.

Now I have four files. The ADE .bgl, the exclusion .bgl, the scenery .bgl, and the object .bgl. Is there a way to combine these four files into two, maybe three?

Thanks.

BTW: Having the copy/paste function would have saved me some considerable time as I had to create, position, size, and orient over 125 parking ramps. Early on, I did save one step by changing the default ramp size to what I wanted, but I still had to go into each to orient it and adjust the offsets.

scruffyduck

14 Jan 2008, 11:43

Bob - you can multiple select parking spots and change the properties for a group at one time. Select the first spot and then use the shift key to select the rest you want to sync. When you hit enter to open the property dialog it will show multiselect and allow group changes. It is described in the manual I think :)

The only way to reduce the number of files would be to extract the XML for each and then combine it. You would need to make sure you had the sections in the correct order and then recompile it with BglComp.

Bob Keeshan

14 Jan 2008, 12:26

Bob - you can multiple select parking spots and change the properties for a group at one time. Select the first spot and then use the shift key to select the rest you want to sync. When you hit enter to open the property dialog it will show multiselect and allow group changes. It is described in the manual I think :)

DOH!

You're right... Man, that was a lot of wasted time spent the last two nights.

scruffyduck

14 Jan 2008, 12:56

DOH!

You're right... Man, that was a lot of wasted time spent the last two nights.

Sorry about that................ You can also multiselect taxi links if I remember correctly but they are the only two object types that can be multiselected at the moment

jvile

14 Jan 2008, 16:33

Now I have four files. The ADE .bgl, the exclusion .bgl, the scenery .bgl, and the object .bgl.

All 4 can be part of the ADE.bgl making one single ADE.bgl. That has a downside with the Home version if you plan to upload your work. The ade bgl if opened and edits are made by someone then it does not read model data.

I would suggest keeping ADE as a single bgl so you can edit when needed.

Take the other 3 bgl's and combine into a single bgl. This bgl does not need a airport header so list the exclusions first then the scenery and then the objects. SDE will open each of those bgl's and you can copy paste or save as a xml to extract out from.

Once you have everything in your XML compile with BGLComp.

Bob Keeshan

18 Jan 2008, 23:41

Take the other 3 bgl's and combine into a single bgl. This bgl does not need a airport header so list the exclusions first then the scenery and then the objects. SDE will open each of those bgl's and you can copy paste or save as a xml to extract out from.

Once you have everything in your XML compile with BGLComp.

So, as I was combining the scenery, objects, and exclusions into one .bgl file, I noticed that when I try to use bgl2xml on the CVX file that SbuilderX creates for landclass polys, it doesn't work. Any suggestions?

meshman

19 Jan 2008, 00:38

withdrawn.

Bob Keeshan

19 Jan 2008, 01:07

Land class tiles are put into FSX using a different tool than BGLComp, the Resampler tool Resampler takes terrain shapes and makes the CVX files. Shapes can be the airport background/flatten, polygons to exclude autogen or many other types. So these shapes don't decompile down to XML code and the different decompilers won't work with them.

Got it. Thanks!

scruffyduck

19 Jan 2008, 02:25

cvx are compiled using Shp2Vec

meshman

19 Jan 2008, 11:16

withdrawn.

scruffyduck

20 Jan 2008, 04:31

Maybe I ought to go mow the lawn??:D

It might help ;)

richard64

13 Feb 2008, 05:26

meshman

13 Feb 2008, 11:46

ADE and SBX don't sync with each other. What each does individually is sync with FSX, showing the location of the airplane in FSX. So it's a simple task of running FSX in a windowed mode, running ADE and SBX and allowing each to communicate with FSX. Toggle amongst the windowed applications as needed.

Some systems may have difficulties running all three at the same time, as in major slow downs, but it's still possible.

richard64

13 Feb 2008, 12:09

Thanks I shall have a bash.

Bob Keeshan

13 Feb 2008, 13:31

I have been reading this topic as I need to do the same. Synch ADE with SBX, however I am finding it a bit difficult to follow.
Would someone be prepared to give me a few simple instructions on how to do this???

I started this thread originally because when I added airport elements in ADE using a background image, they were not aligned at the same location when I used the same background image in SBX. They were usually off by several meters.

This is how I solved the problem. I use SBX to produce the background image because it stores the corner coords with the image. Once I have the image and the coords, I can then take them over to ADE and/or Whisplacer to do my airport and object work. For now, I use these three apps to redesign my airports:

SBX: to produce the "master" background image and coords and to create landclass polys
ADE: to make changes to the airport elements based on the master
Whisplacer: to do all my object work, including generic buildings, triggers, and autogen, based on the master.

This has worked rather well, but I look forward to the day when I can do all of this in ADE... ;)