New AI Flight Planning Tool

[gadgets]

AI Flight Planner, a new, comprehensive AI flight planning tool is ready for beta testing.

AI Flight Planner provides all the facilities necessary to create, develop, edit and maintain AI traffic flight plans for both the FS9 and FSX versions of Microsoft Flight Simulator (MSFS). It includes an embedded compiler/decompiler. Hence, AI Flight Planner can use either TTools-format .txt files or compiled MSFS traffic .bgl files as “source code” for flight plans and airports – or the user may create one or both “from scratch”. AI Flight Planner provides its own airport data.

In addition to the features expected in any flight planning tool, AI Flight planner:
appends data from additional flight plan and aircraft files to that already loaded; data from TTools-format and traffic files may be mixed;
has a leg-oriented flight plan editor that handles daily and weekly traffic in an identical manner
permits entry of arrival and departure times based on any time zone;
generates traffic files for only a user-specified subset of the airports included in a flight plans; and
includes in the compiled traffic file only the airport and aircraft information used by the included flight plans, thus reducing system overhead.

Thus, it is possible with AI Flight Planner to maintain comprehensive airline-based flight plan files and one or more master aircraft files, and generate from those files efficient AI traffic files pertaining to only a region or single airport

If you are interested in testing this initial release, it may be downloaded from http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI%20Flight%20Planner%20v01.zip. The download includes notes for beta testers.

At this stage, I would discourage use of AI Flight Planner other than for testing purposes.

Thanks for your interest,
Don

[Difar]

Don

Just d/l and fired up your new software.

After adding an aircraft and selecting a "Starts at Airport" I get the following error: 3634

Detail of the report as follows:

See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.InvalidCastException: Conversion from string "##" to type 'Date' is not valid.
at Microsoft.VisualBasic.CompilerServices.Conversions .ToDate(String Value)
at WindowsApplication1.FlightPlanner.AdjustTime(Strin g strTime, Double nCorr)
at WindowsApplication1.FlightPlanner.GetLegDistanceAn dETA()
at WindowsApplication1.FlightPlanner.tbBase_LostFocus (Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnLostFocus(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.TextBoxBase.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.TextBox.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.O nMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.W ndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
FP Manipulator
Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0
CodeBase: file:///D:/Flight%20Sim%20Apps/AI%20Flight%20Planner/AI%20Flight%20Planner.exe
----------------------------------------
Microsoft.VisualBasic
Assembly Version: 8.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 8.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Microsoft.VisualBasic/8.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Runtime.Remoting
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Runtime.Remoting/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Runtime.Remoting.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box. :confused:

If I were to select any other box or data entry, the error pops right back up.

Any additional info needed, just ask.

[gsnde]

Hi Don,

Good thing to finally see it out in the wild :)

I get stuck directly at the beginning. I have completed all fields (at least I think I do), but still I can not add the leg to the flight plan. No matter what I do the Add Leg button stays disabled.

Where am I being stupid?

[gsnde]

Hi Divar,

What Regional Country setting do you use?

[gadgets]

Thanks, guys.

Difar, it would appear that departure time had not been set. The program should have detected this. It didn't (but now does).

Martin, just found a stupid coding error. The program won't let you add a new leg unless there's at least one leg already in the Leg List. If you load an existing flightplan, however, you should be able to add legs to it.

Re regional settings, I've tried to make the program very tolerant in this regard. You should be able to use almost anything for separators - except for decimal points in numbers. Do you have a specific problem?

I'll get an update out later today, once see what else 'surfaces".

Don

[gsnde]

You should be able to use almost anything for separators - except for decimal points in numbers.

So the comma as the decimal separator is valid (like 1000,10) ?

Everything else would be bad news for your 98.3 Million German, Swiss and Austrian users :D

[gadgets]

I assumed that will be looked after by the regional settings. But, I'll check and, if it's not, I'll make it valid.

Don

[gadgets]

The next beta version of AI Flight Planner should be available tomorrow (Mar 08). I had hoped to have it up later today, but I've had to do some major rework in the generation of airport lists. The next release will have an airport list generator.
Thanks for being patient.

Don

[gadgets]

Beta version 0.2 is now available at http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v02.zip. Unfortunately, I was not able to complete the new airport list generator, which should be available in the next day or so.

Thanks for helping out.

Don

[gsnde]

Hi Don,

some observations.

I tried to open a FSX bgl, while the day encoding setting on the tool interface was saying FS9.

The decompilation was stopped with the remark that the encoding setting was wrong. Maybe the better thing to do here would be to just switch the setting automatically?

I then changed that setting and tried to load the bgl again. I was informed that this could not be done because the file flightplan.txt in the folder work is in use by another process - I guess by the tool itself.

The next restart worked well. Now I have a self created overlay airport which the tool does not know (asking: "contains an airport not in the AirportList.dat. Continue?").
I say Yes and will be asked again for the next occurrences. This should be more like I say yes once and program will keep this decision for this airport.

I still can not add a leg when starting a flight plan from scratch.

Now for the good things. This is all looking extremely good and I have the strong feeling that this could become THE flight planning tool.

[gadgets]

Thanks, Martin. I'll fix those and re-release ASAP (including the new airport list generator.) Re the inability to create a new FP leg from scratch, was the button disabled or was the new leg just not accepted?

Don

[gsnde]

The button was disabled, so I have no way of knowing if it would have been accepted :)

[gadgets]

Thanks, I thought I had fixed that problem completely. Obviously, there's a path I didn't notice.

Don

[flynby]

When trying to add new airport in either FS2004 or FSX, after typing in
Latitude as N32:37.9262, I press tab to go to Longitude window. The coordinates disappear. I have the selection DD:MM.mm. Also tried 32:37.9262 knowing this is incorrect-but. Again, it disappears.
FSX is on Vista Home operating system, and FS2004 Windows XP.

Also, when opening AI Flight Planner, I select FlightPlanner\New. Go to Start at Airport and type in the Airport ID I have assigned.
FP Manipulator Window opens up asking if I want to add this. Click Yes.
Airport editor open up and is seen behind initial window. Asked again if I
would like to add airport. Again, click Yes. Again, asked if like to add
and again yes. Then the Airport Editor window is available. This happens
on both FS2004 and FSX.
Is anyone else experiencing this?
Appreciate any help on this.

[gadgets]

Flynby, I must have inadvertently introduced the first error you mentioned in the current version. It will be fixed tonight.

Re the second problem, I have no control over the "layering" of dialogs. However, the next release will make the airport editor modal, so that only one airport editor window is open at a time.

Thanks for testing,
Don

[gadgets]

A new beta version (0,3) is available here http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v03.zip. It resolves all issues reported to date (and a few that weren't). It also includes the new airport data collector.

Have fun,
Don

[MoToCroSs986]

I tried using the get airports, but the select button was not working.

What is the format for the Dep time. I put in 2030 and got an error, of Dep time not valid.

I have the time zone thing figured thanks.
missed it on first reading

Thanks

Glenn

[gadgets]

What do you man by the "select" button?

Time format is the same as TTools - "hh:mm" (including the colon).

Don

[MoToCroSs986]

Ah colons cool....that will help.

The select buttons are greyed out and don't work. Am I supposed to enter a file location?

When running GetAirports.exe

[MoToCroSs986]

Another newbie ? What do you enter for if you what an Alt. of 15,000 feet. I tried 15, 150, 1500, 15000 and recieved and error.

[MoToCroSs986]

I now have a Flight Plan and when I click the Add FP To List button I get error of Active Level is required. I do have a number (1) in the box beside Active Level(%). What do the two radio buttons F and R beside the Flight No. box mean?

Thanks

Glenn

P.S. I am trying to build a Flight Plan from scratch.

[gadgets]

Hi, Glenn.

I had intended to make the colons unnnecessary, but simply forgot. That will come.

Re the 'select buttons". I'm sorry I didn't better document the use of GetAirports, something I'll correct today. GetAirports attempts to locate FS9 and FSX using their registry entries. If found, the paths are displayed in the respective windows at the top of the form. If not found,it relies of the user to locate the top FS9 and FSX folders using the "Select" buttons. Those buttons should never be disabled, which is why I reacted as I did last night. I'll check that out today. I'll also check the Active level issue.

Re F/R, I've assumed the user has some knowledge of the fields in TTools flight plans. Perhaps that was inappropriate. "F" indicates that ATC will use a flight number (which must be entered for the flight plan to be accepted); "R" means that the flight will use it's tail (registration) number for ATC identification (in which case, a tail number will be required).

Don

[gadgets]

New beta version 0.31 posted at http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v031.zip. Fixes the altitude and activity level bugs (a couple of missing "nots"). Only file "AI Flight Planer.exe" changed

Don

[gadgets]

Oops. I forgot to change the name of the main file in the recent upload.

If the archive file you downloaded contains a file named "FP Manipulator.exe", that is the new "AI Flight Planner.exe" in disguise. Please use it and not the file named "AI Flight Planner.exe" which is the old file from last night.

I have now corrected the situation, leaving the archive file name the same.

Sorry for any inconvenience,
Don

[gsnde]

Hi Don,

Some further observations.

The add leg now is working. But I fear that the latest fix has broken the routine which calculates the leg distance / duration. These fields are no longer filled.

For unknown airports I am asked only once. Great.

When I import a traffic file, I get two blank lines (the first and second) in the left listbox "Flight Plan File". This happens for all FSX (don't have an FS9 right now).

I opened several MAIW flight plans and get a date conversion error for several entries when I click on them in the left listbox "Flight Plan File". The thing common to all of them is that they are TNG. These are examples copied from the "Flight Plan File Text Editor":

AC#13,A1302,1%,4h,VFR,03:45:00,TNG00:00:00,50,F,03 02,WARA,00:54:00,01:09:00,40,F,0302,WARA
AC#14,A1303,5%,8h,IFR,01:00:00,TNG01:15:00,45,F,03 03,WARA,01:34:00,01:49:00,45,F,0303,WARA
AC#8,65-0373,4%,8h,VFR,01:54:00,TNG02:10:00,150,F,0002,KHM N,02:10:00,02:25:00,150,F,0002,KHMN


Whenever I decompile an FSX bgl (no errors, nothing special here), and then immediately select menu Flightplans / New, I receive this error message:

Could not write aircraft file. Please rename backup (.bak) file. InvalidArgument=Value mit dem Wert 15 ist für Index ungültig. Parametername:index

The German part translates to "Value 15 is invalid for index". This happens as often as I select menu New. The same thing happens if I select menu Flightplans / Exit. The only way to close the program now is using the X in the upper right corner.

So much for today.

[gadgets]

Thanks for the feedback, Martin.

Re the failure to calculate leg length, until the new leg is placed in the leg list, the system doesn't know the starting point for that leg - which is always the destination for the previous leg. For a new leg, I suppose I could assume it starts from the destination of the last leg in the list, but that would be just a guess. I think I should probably just disable those fields if not enough solid information exists to calculate them.

Re the unknown airports, in the next beta, you'll have an opportunity to enter into the airport file at the completion of the flight plan load.

Re the two blank lines, these are placed there by the decompiler. (That's where the decompiler indicates if the FSX day-encoding scheme is in effect.) I can easily suppress them.

Re the TNGs, I forgot completely about them. Something to keep me busy for the next hour or so.

Re the new file error, I've confirmed I can duplicate it, so it should be fixed for tomorrow.

Have a good sleep,
Don

[gsnde]

I think I should probably just disable those fields if not enough solid information exists to calculate them.

:eek: No, please not, Don

Think of planning a flight from scratch. You select the aircraft, the departure airport, the target airport. Now you have all data to calculate the distance and duration. To realistically plan a next leg or the return flight you need this information. Everything else is guesswork or just unrealistic planning.

So please don't take out this feature, otherwise I will not have a good sleep ;)

[gadgets]

Not to worry. I just realised that the whole area of new/add/insert legs needs to be re-thought. Since each leg MUST begin where its predecessor stopped, the position in the Leg List where a new leg is to be inserted/added must be fixed at the time the new leg is started so that the departure airport will be known.

Thus, as soon as the arrival airport is entered, the information needed to calculate distance/duratuion will exist.

I'll try to have it re-worked for tomorow.

Don

[gadgets]

Beta Version 0.4 available at http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v04.zip. All issue reported to date have been fixed. User manual updated to cover all new/modified operation.

Don

[MoToCroSs986]

Here are two screenshots of a Flight plan and the error when I hit the Add FP to List button.

Thanks for all your effort, this tool will rock.

[gadgets]

Thanks. I'll have a look at it in the morning.

Don

[flynby]

In v04 dated 03/11, question about time zone column. My monitor is not wide screen. It is 19". Is there a slide bar available to select more UTC time zones? When I click the drop down window, that is when the writing goes past the viewing screen toward the right.

Real minor item here: In adding new airport information in Airport Editor,
I fill in ICAO code and press tab. Cursor jumps past Airport Name to City.
From city it jumps to open. Wonder if possible to have cursor go in squence from ICAO box instead of jumping around in Airport Editor?

And maybe in the Flight Plan Data Base also. May I suggest considering a beginner who has never created a flight plan before? A flashing cursor would be a great benefit if it went in the correct squence the program desires. Out of habit when creating times, today I put hh:mm:ss. and
got a error message. Maybe examples of correct way info should be typed would also help beginners.
Hope I am not becoming a pain here.

[gsnde]

Yep, the tab order is something I noticed as well. I did not reported it yet because there is something else related.

The tab order should reflect the position of the fields. What I am still thinking about is the best order of the fields.

Imagine you will write flight plans. Normally you don't write just one flight. So there are probably settings which will remain mostly identical for the flights you are about to design in this session. These could be %setting, instrument or visual flight, use flight or tail number, ....

So these settings should be grouped on top, and the tab should cycle within this group.

Below should go the constantly used fields: Aircraft, From, To, When, ... Again the tab key should cycle within this group.

Something like this. Does this make sense for you?

[gsnde]

Something else, Don :)

I remember that I have seen decompiled txt files both in the work folder below the tool and in the folders where the decompiled bgl files reside.

Is it supposed to be this way?

[gadgets]

Good morning, folks.

MoToCroSs986, I am unable to duplicate your situation - which is unusual since no day-of-week checkboxes are checked and there are no day-of-week flags in the Leg list item. Did you do something unusual to get rid of those indicators? I suspect the exception you experienced is related to that. In my case, i get a "flightplan must contain at least two legs" error.

flynby, the position of the drop-down list items is controlled by Windows. I've seen reference to a custom drop-down list that expands to the left when necessary to keep everything inside the window. I'll see if I can get further info. Re hh:mm:ss format, I dropped the seconds entry because it seemed rather useless. However, I shouldn't make it an error. Seconds will be accepted in the next release (but probably discarded).

gsnde, flynby, to date I haven't been concerned about tab order. (But, I take it as a good sign that the current un-refined order now ranks with the worst problems you can find. ;)) I welcome your thoughts on the correct order.

gsnde, I don't understand you last comment. Do you mean "... where the compiled files reside"?

Unless you guys find a "show stopper", I probably won't make another relase for a day or so. (MoToCroSs986, I consider your issue to be a show-stopper, once we isolate it.)

Have a good day, all.
Don

[gsnde]

gsnde, I don't understand you last comment. Do you mean "... where the compiled files reside"?

Opening a traffic bgl file, your tool decompiles it in the airport, aircraft and flightplan components in form of text files.

These I have found both within the "Work" directory inside your tool's folder structure as well as where I have opened the bgl files from. (e.g. ..\FSX\Scenery\World\Scenery).

Is this supposed to be this way or should those decompiled text files only be in the work folder?

[gadgets]

Martin, thanks for the clarification. Those temporary files should appear only under Work. I'll check this. In the meantime, you can delete the AI Flight Planner-generated temporary .txt files elsewhere.

MoToCroSs986, I've just found the coding error that resulted in the GetAirports "Select" buttons being disabled. Apparently, GetAirports was unable to locate your copy of FS9 or FSX. What operating system are you using, please?

Don

[gsnde]

In the meantime, you can delete the AI Flight Planner-generated temporary .txt files elsewhere.


Hi Don,

Yes, that I have already done. They kept reappearing, though. What I can not say is if this happens only under erratic program conditions, e.g. when the program can not be closed like I have described above, or if it just happens.

[gadgets]

Martin, I don't have any .txt files in my "decompile from" folder or, after compile, in my "compile to".

Could you experiment further please?

Don

[gsnde]

Will do, Don :)

Vista Business 32 over here, by the way.

[MoToCroSs986]

I am using Vista 32 bit.

[gadgets]

I hadn't planned on making another release today, but here is version 04.1 (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v041.zip).

Aside from some general cleanup, MoToCroSs986, you should be able to use GetAirports now and AI Flight Planner should no longer throw an exception when moving edited FPs into the Flight Plan list. If you know the registry keys for FS9 and/or FSX in Vista 32, please let me know. Since it seems GetAirports can't find either on your machine, it appears their registry keys are different from both XP and Vista 64.

Don

[gsnde]

Don,

There should be no difference between XP and Vista 32bit.

On Vista 64bit the key will be like:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Microsoft Games\...

The Wow6432Node part is where the 32-bit legacy registry is mirrored into the 64-bit registry.

[MoToCroSs986]

I can compile flights, but they don't show up in FSX. I think there is someting wrong with my OS. Might have to reinstall.

[gadgets]

Martin, on my XP, the MSFS keys are under "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Microsoft Games\". So for Vista64, I've been using "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Microsoft\ Microsoft Games\". Does the "Microsoft" remain for Vista or is it replaced by "Wow6432Node"?

MoToCroSs986, do you have other FSX day-encoding traffic on FSX that does show up? FSX will accept either FS9 day-encoding or FSX day-encoding. However, if both are present, only the FS9-encoded traffic shows up. Unless you're sure you don't have FS9-encoded traffic, I'd suggest you disable all Scenery Library entries and traffic files located outside add-ons (do a search on "traffic*.bgl) and try again before taking more drastic measures.

Don

[gsnde]

So for Vista64, I've been using "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Microsoft\ Microsoft Games\".

Absolutely correct, Don

[gsnde]

Don,

The very last version has re-introduced the behavior that I get asked for unknown airports every time. Only now it seems to ask twice for each one :)

I would like to send you one or two of my traffic BGL files. They will probably make a good testbed for you.

Send me a private message with your email address, if you agree.

[gadgets]

Thanks, martin. I discovered it myself a short while ago. It's a bug I introduced in the changes I made yesterday afternoon.

Its now fixed and I hope to make another release tonight including that and a couple new features.

Don

[gadgets]

Sorry for last night's fiasco.:o A much-improved beta version 0.5 is available here (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v05.zip).

There are two significant feature improvements in this release. You can now reload the last-loaded flight plan file (and companion aircraft file if it exists). As well, I have made the subsetting capability standalone and added exclusive subsetting. This will allow, for example, the exclusion of designated airports from the default traffic file(s).

As I note in the "Notes to Beta Testers", I plan to spend the next few days using AI Flight Planner to complete the project that prompted its development. This will be a good vehicle for regression testing.

Incidentally, Martin, have you had any success chasing-down those errant .txt files?

Don

[gsnde]

Don,

There are no news ones for the time being, but I keep an eye on it. Gone as well is the TNG error.

A list of observations:

1. I start the program and decompile a traffic BGL. Then I go to the menu "Aircraft" and select "Save as". The filename you are suggesting is saying "Flightplans-xxxx.txt" instead of "Aircrafts-xxxx.txt"

2. I still receive multiple "airport not in AirportsList.dat" errors. Again, I would suggest to send you the offending BGL ;)

3. Uups. When I answer "No" to the question if an unknown airport should be added I receive this error: "This does not appear to be a valid flight plan file. Error was generated at line -1. InvalidArgument=value mit dem Wert 108 ist für index ungültig." Then the import process stops. Do you want it to stop here or just skipping the offending airport?

4. On one specific BGL I always receive the error message that a specific aircraft could not be added because it already exists: "An aircraft with the title xxx is already in the Aircraft List xxx will not be loaded."

5. On all BGLs I decompile when I try to save the aircraft file via menu "Aircraft" -> "Save as..." I receive an error message: "Could not write aircraft file. Please rename backup (.bak) file. Invalid argument=Value mit dem Wert 1450 ist für index ungültig". The bak. part of the error message should go because there is no bak file - at least in my case.

6. Just a question this one. The SDK specifies the aircraft.list like this:
typeKey,Title,Cruise,minAlt,maxAlt,minRange,maxRan ge,minRwyLen,runwayTypes, radius,parkingTypes,IFR%,AutoRoute?,TouchAndGo?
Can this information be recapture when decompiling the BGL? In the aircraft.txt you write there is only title, crusie speed and index no.

7. If I select menu "Aircraft" -> "Add Aircraft from folder" and select an aircraft, I would like to see that the AC# is pre-filled. If I start with a new list, 0 or 1 (can't remember what is correct right now ;)). If a list is already loaded with the next consequent number. Right now I have now way of knowing when I am in the dialog which is the next free number.

8. Maybe I am doing something wrong here. I start the tool and open an aircraft list. Then


select the aircraft
complete starts from airport
complete active level
complete repeat period
complete FP type
complete tail number
complete F/R
complete Flight Number
complete altitude
complete To airport


At no time the leg distance, duration and ETA fields get activated. They should after I have provided the To airport.

So far for now.

[colin_d]

Hi Don,

I've been using AIfp to try to write flight plans from scratch.
It took a while to sort out the sequence of the procedure but until version 0.5 I was never able to complete a flight plan.
Now, at last, things are coming together and version 0.5 has allowed me to complete and compile a flight plan. Keep up the good work as I'm sure AIfp could be a replacement for Ttools which everyone has relied on for so long.

Colin

[gadgets]

Thanks, Colin. A tool this complex always has "birthing pains". I'm aiming for it to be releasable next week.

Martin, please send me the bgls that are creating the difficulty. My e-mail address is in the documentation. I have corrected the only "can't find airport" bug I have been able to duplicate but, it seems, there's another lurking there. (I trust the missing airport is not an add-on airport. If it is, you can use GetAirports to create a new airports list that includes it.)

Re your item 6, the TTools-format aircraft files (and, hence, AI Flight Planner's) are different from the Traffic Toolbox files described in the SDK. The additional information is for TTB's internal use and doesn't make its way into the traffic file.

I'll look at (and hopefully fix) your other isses this morning, after which I plan to do some serious regression testing.

Please let me know of anything else you discover.

Have a great weekend.

Don

[gadgets]

A new beta vesion (5.1) (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v051.zip) has been posted to address the problems highlighted below by Martin (except as otherwise noted).

Problems:

1, 3 and 5 - Simple coding errors; resolved
2 Cannot duplicate; awaiting bgl from Martin
4 Cannot duplicate; Martin, have you confirmed the problem title is not actually in the Aircraft List (the underlying .txt files are in the Work folder)
6 Already answered
7 Added
8 Airport fields are not validated until the cursor is moved elsewhere. If, after entering the destination airport you move the cursor to, say, the Alt field, then, if the airport is valid, the distance, duration and ETA should be filled in.

Don

[gsnde]

Files are on the way now, Don

[gsnde]

When I answer "No" to the question if an unknown airport should be added I receive this error: "This does not appear to be a valid flight plan file. Error was generated at line -1. InvalidArgument=value mit dem Wert 108 ist für index ungültig."

Don, have you been able to reproduce this error?

[gadgets]

Yes. It should be fixed in the version 5.1 I posted yesterday. If you are still geting it, please send me the .bgl that causes it.

Don

[Snuffy]

Dumb question if I may.

Is this flight planner for commercial only? Or is it flexible enough to be able to plan a formation of bombers, like the B-17 for example?

[gsnde]

Generally speaking you can plan flights with the tool ;)

All my testing so far has been done with military aircraft. When you are asking about bomber formation, is the formation realized by using hidden runways, overlay airports or waypoints?

I use an overly airport and this can be addressed with this tool without a problem.

Maybe you can tell us what special features would be needed for your formation.

[gadgets]

Thanks for responding to the previous enquiry, Martin.

I had planned to spend the weekend regression testing AI Flight Planner. Alas, it was not to be. I spotted a minor issue with the Aircraft List whose fix was not so minor. The latest beta (0.52) (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v052.zip) contains that fix as well as a one for a recently introduced problem that prevented Get Airports from collecting FSX airports and a few other "goodies" (see the revision history).

Hopefully, I'll get on with the regression testing later today.

Don

[gsnde]

You are welcome, Don :)

I am off checking the new version...

[gsnde]

We are coming very close now, Don :)

One little bug here:


Start the tool
select menu Aircraft / Load New Aircraft File and load any aircraft file formerly created
now select menu Aircraft / Add Aircraft from folder
this will cause an error


Informationen über das Aufrufen von JIT-Debuggen
anstelle dieses Dialogfelds finden Sie am Ende dieser Meldung.

************** Ausnahmetext **************
System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Der Index lag außerhalb des Bereichs. Er muss nicht negativ und kleiner als die Auflistung sein.
Parametername: index
bei System.Collections.ArrayList.get_Item(Int32 index)
bei WindowsApplication1.EditAircraftList.GetNextACRefN o()
bei WindowsApplication1.EditAircraftList.EditAircraftL ist_Load(Object sender, EventArgs e)
bei System.Windows.Forms.Form.OnLoad(EventArgs e)
bei System.Windows.Forms.Form.OnCreateControl()
bei System.Windows.Forms.Control.CreateControl(Boolean fIgnoreVisible)
bei System.Windows.Forms.Control.CreateControl()
bei System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmShowWindow(Message& m)
bei System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
bei System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Mes sage& m)
bei System.Windows.Forms.ContainerControl.WndProc(Mess age& m)
bei System.Windows.Forms.Form.WmShowWindow(Message& m)
bei System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m)
bei System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.O nMessage(Message& m)
bei System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.W ndProc(Message& m)
bei System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Geladene Assemblys **************
mscorlib
Assembly-Version: 2.0.0.0.
Win32-Version: 2.0.50727.312 (rtmLHS.050727-3100).
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll.
----------------------------------------
AI Flight Planner
Assembly-Version: 1.0.0.0.
Win32-Version: 1.0.0.0.
CodeBase: file:///C:/MSFS/Scenery%20Design%20X/AI%20Flight%20Planner/AI%20Flight%20Planner.exe.
----------------------------------------
Microsoft.VisualBasic
Assembly-Version: 8.0.0.0.
Win32-Version: 8.0.50727.312 (rtmLHS.050727-3100).
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Microsoft.VisualBasic/8.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll.
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly-Version: 2.0.0.0.
Win32-Version: 2.0.50727.312 (rtmLHS.050727-3100).
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll.
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly-Version: 2.0.0.0.
Win32-Version: 2.0.50727.312 (rtmLHS.050727-3100).
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll.
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly-Version: 2.0.0.0.
Win32-Version: 2.0.50727.312 (rtmLHS.050727-3100).
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll.
----------------------------------------
System.Runtime.Remoting
Assembly-Version: 2.0.0.0.
Win32-Version: 2.0.50727.312 (rtmLHS.050727-3100).
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Runtime.Remoting/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Runtime.Remoting.dll.
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms.resources
Assembly-Version: 2.0.0.0.
Win32-Version: 2.0.50727.312 (rtmLHS.050727-3100).
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms.resources/2.0.0.0_de_b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.resources.dll.
----------------------------------------
mscorlib.resources
Assembly-Version: 2.0.0.0.
Win32-Version: 2.0.50727.312 (rtmLHS.050727-3100).
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll.
----------------------------------------

************** JIT-Debuggen **************
Um das JIT-Debuggen (Just-In-Time) zu aktivieren, muss in der
Konfigurationsdatei der Anwendung oder des Computers
(machine.config) der jitDebugging-Wert im Abschnitt system.windows.forms festgelegt werden.
Die Anwendung muss mit aktiviertem Debuggen kompiliert werden.

Zum Beispiel:

<configuration>
<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

Wenn das JIT-Debuggen aktiviert ist, werden alle nicht behandelten
Ausnahmen an den JIT-Debugger gesendet, der auf dem
Computer registriert ist, und nicht in diesem Dialogfeld behandelt.


Something else.

I will exactly detail out what I am doing, so that you can play it back at your side. This is how I guess a typical user (that one who is not reading a manual :D) would act.


start tool
set day encoding to fsx
select menu aircraft / load new aircraft / select one those created
select Start at Airport and say LFSB
enter 5 in Activity Level
select 24h in Repeat Period
select IFR at FP Type
select 1st aircraft in Aircraft
provide 12345 as Tail Number
Select F and provide Flight Number D-123
enter departure time 10:00
provide ETAR as To Airport
press ETA button
provide 150 as Alt


I have now completed everything possible, but the only button activated is "Start new FP" which will erase what I have entered. How should I continue from here?

Cheers,
Martin

[gadgets]

It's amazing how much difficulty can be caused by a missing minus sign (-) :(

Don

[gsnde]

Making such a cool tool can not possible go without a bit of frustration. Be positive, Don, even if something negative is missing once in a while :)

[gsnde]

Don,

Was the missing minus the culprit for the first or second problem I have reported?

[gadgets]

The first. In reading your earlier report, when I encounter the German in the long error message, I stopped, so didn't notice the second problem description.

Re the second problem, my intention was that you should click on "Start New FP" before entering data. However, it's now academic because the "Save Edited Leg Data" button will (in the next release) be enabled from the beginning.

In my regression testng, I have found a few problems with editing weekly flight plans - which I have now corrected. Otherwise, my testing has been error free. I plan to make a final beta release later today.

There is, however, one additional feature I want to add befere release. That is, the ability to see arrivals and departures on a per airport basis. Thyen, once I clean up the documentation, Version 1 should be "ready to go".

Don

[gsnde]

Wow :) That sounds good.

Looking forward to give the pre-final a good ride, then.

[Snuffy]

Will this program work with any airport? Including 3rd party built addons?

The aircraft start from hardstands or terminals and taxi to their assigned runway for take off right?

Sorry guys, I'm kind of a rookie when it comes to this stuff. I tried reading and understanding the whole thread but I'm afraid it bounced off my skull and didn't penetrate.

[gsnde]

Hi, Snuffy.

Yes, AI flight plans work with airports known to the flight simulator, be it stock airports or addon airports.

Aircrafts starts from parking spots, and go to the airport where the flight plan directs them to. On arriving, they will taxi to the most fitting parking spot and park there.

If there is no fitting one (or none at all, which is the case for most military bases in MS FS), they will just vanish.

These threads are highly educational when it comes to AI:


Depicting Parking Spaces in ADE
A proposal for an FSX AI Parking framework
(http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4816)V2 - Proposal for an FSX AI Parking framework (http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4880)
AI parking gates radius etc (http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8761)

[Snuffy]

Thanks Martin ... Guess I have some reading to do. :o

Can I make a "round trip" out of this tool? In other words, can I form up a squadron of bombers, fly to a designated target, do a 180 come back to their home base and land? Sounds like I should be able to.

[gsnde]

Yes, Snuffy.

Flights can be simple as go there and come back, or complex like a trip taking up to a week and jumping from target to target before coming home.

When you talk about a squadron of bombers, the problem will not be to have them fly where you want, but to have them fly as a squadron in formation (at least that is what I am hearing as the background of your question).

Normally when you send a group of aircrafts from the same airport to the same target at the same time, they will line up at the runway and start in sequence. This way they will arrive at the target.

If you want to see them fly as a diamond or in any kind of formation, then you have to trick the sim into it. It is not possible with the default configuration.

The key to this is to work with overlaying airports (look like one from above, but are in fact two or more from a technically point of view). Another approach I have never tested myself if with visible and invisible runways. After you have such a setup, you have to carefully time the takeoff of the aircrafts in formation.

A good place for such things are the forums of MAIW (http://www.militaryaiworks.com/) and UKMil (http://www.ukmil.org.uk/news.php).

[gadgets]

Just as I was about to release the final beta version, I discovered a litte problem in the UTC->local time conversion area. Looks like it will be sometime tomorrow before I'm ready to release.

Sorry,
Don

[Golf-HotelDelta]

Can I make a "round trip" out of this tool? In other words, can I form up a squadron of bombers, fly to a designated target, do a 180 come back to their home base and land? Sounds like I should be able to.

Search for ai_tb_demo.zip at Avsim. These files by Mike MacIntyre should still work in FSX.

George

[Snuffy]

Thanks Guys.

I'll make that trip to Avsim later tonight!

[gadgets]

So long as they make a refuelling stop along the way, it should be possible. Unfortunately, neither FS9 nor FSX allows the departure and destination airport for AI to be the the same - except for touch 'n gos.

Don

[Golf-HotelDelta]

So long as they make a refuelling stop along the way, it should be possible.

Make a short invisible runway above ground level and fly an IFR flightplan, the aircraft will fly a missed approach and carry on to the next leg.

Mike includes all details within the zip. The only thing which doesn't work in FSX is runway "SURFACE=UNKNOWN" so make the runway of zero width.

George

[gadgets]

Here it is! The (hopefully) final beta release (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v053.zip).

Please read the "Notes to Beta Testers".

Have fun :rolleyes:
Don

[colin_d]

Hi Don,

It appears that AIFP is severely broken using the latest beta.
Here is a blow by blow account of using it. I am trying to use it to write an entirely new flightplan. I've starred results which may be not as designed


Start aifp
Blue Band in flight plan area
Live buttons
'Open Text Editor', 'Start New FP','Save Edited Leg Data','Delete Lag'
All info windows except 'Time Zone' empty

++++ Flight Plans menu ++++
Click 'New File Set'
Blue line disappears from flight plan area
Click 'Open File Set'
Box opens at Ttools(defined in .ini file) for selection
Close box as not needed
Click 'Open Traffic Bgl'
Box opens in 'Work'(defined in .ini) folder for selection
Close box as not needed
Click 'Reload Last File (Set)'

***No apparent action

All other menu options greyed out

Click 'Start New FP' button
Blue line re-appears in flight plan area

++++ Aircraft' menu ++++
Click 'Add New Aircraft'

***'Select Aircraft from Folder' option greyed out so 'Exit' from option

Click 'Add Aircraft from Folder'
Works as it should and I select three new aircraft, add them to list and close box
New 'Aircraft' options now available
Click 'Load New Aircraft File'
Works as it should, close box
Click 'Append Aircraft'
Works as it should, close box
Select an aircraft
Click 'Modify Selected Aircraft'
Works as it should, close box
Click 'Delete Selected Aircraft'
Works as it should, cancel request, box closes
Click 'Clear Aircraft List'

***Immediately deletes all the aircraft with no option to cancel

Reload aircraft using previous routine
Click 'Save As,
Works as it should, cancel option box closes

++++ Airports Menu ++++
Click 'Find ICAO Identifier from 'Airports' menu
Find airport from tree click on ICAO and exit

***No apparent action, nothing added anywhere on aifp screen

Click 'Edit/Add Airport' from menu
Works as it should, Exit from box
Click 'Bulk Airport Update'

***Opens box to add an airport, not sure if this is right or whether it should scan for all airports and produce a new 'AirportList.dat'

Click 'Customize Airport List'
Opens box with tree structure, not sure how this works so close box
Click 'Use Master Airport List'
No apparent action so presumably defaults to airport list(s) provided
'Arrival Departures' option greyed out

At this stage I have three aircraft loaded, no airports loaded and will now write flightplans. Have already clicked 'Start New FP'. Fill in Active Level, Repeat Period, FP Type, Aircraft Title, Tail Number and select Sequence by Title. Fill in Starts From, select F from F/R, fill in Flight No, From box echoes Starts From box, fill in Departure Time, fill in To box which generates Leg Distance, Duration and ETA, click Use ETA which fills in Arrival Time tick 6 day boxes and fill Alt box. All options now filled so click 'Save Edited Leg Data' button. Information moves to blue line in flightplan area.
Click Add Leg button. Blue line drops beneath previous leg data, various boxes empty and 'Starts At' changes to previous 'To' option. Fill in required data as before but Leg Distance , Duration and ETA remain blank so manually enter Arrival Time which produces @ in front of the time. Click 'Save Edited Leg Data' button.

***First line of flightplan disappears, second leg data appears in its place and blue line moves to top of box.

Click 'Add Leg' button
Blue line moves to where it should be had all leg data been present

Thereafter no matter how many legs are added the result is the same, ie just one leg data line at the top of the box and the blue line getting successively lower each time 'Add Leg' button is clicked. I wasn't able to progress any further with any other options due to the lack of complete flightplan.

The blow by blow account may help if you wish to follow my actions. Hope this helps resolving any bug issues and look forward to a revised beta.

Colin

[gadgets]

Thanks, Colin. This is why we have beta tests.

I can respond to immediately to all but the last of your points.

***No apparent action Since you had not loaded a file set, there was nothing to reload. I'll add an advisory message.
***'Select Aircraft from Folder' option greyed out so 'Exit' from option There are two add-aircraft options in the aircraft menu. (I won't go into the reasons why here, but I will review them.) Had you used the other one, "Select Aircraft from Folder" would not have been disabled. I'll ensure this is clear in the user manual if I can't find an alternative operation.
***Immediately deletes all the aircraft with no option to cancel The confirmation request simply slipped through the cracks. I'll add it.
***No apparent action, nothing added anywhere on aifp screen This function is intended simply to look-up the ICAO code. What do you think should have happened?
***Opens box to add an airport, not sure if this is right or whether it should scan for all airports and produce a new 'AirportList.dat' For bulk airport update, you need to designate a TTools-format aircraft file from which AIFP will retrieve data. The "scan airports" function is handled by "GetAirports.exe", a separate application.
***First line of flightplan disappears, second leg data appears in its place and blue line moves to top of boxAs you suggest, this is not intended operation. I found such a problem in version 0.52 and fixed it. Obviously, I missed something. I'll investigate and re-release.

Thanks again for pointing out these things.

Don

[colin_d]

Hi Don,

This function is intended simply to look-up the ICAO code. What do you think should have happened?


I had expected the airports to appear in the 'Airports Included in the Flight Plan File' area but your explanation shows why they didn't. Maybe the option could be a way of adding the relevant airports?

Thanks for your replies Don. I'm happy to help get AIFP working properly as I probably approach it from a different direction than, perhaps, others do and different problems crop up.
Colin

[gadgets]

Maybe the option could be a way of adding the relevant airports?

Since the function is initiated from a menu and can be at any time, there's no contextual information. However, what would you think of also opening the "find ICAO" dialog if the user types a question mark (?) in the destination airport field and, if he/she then clicks on an ICAO code, automatically entering the last-selected ICAO code (if there is one) into the destination field when the "find ICAO" dialog is closed?

When a new airport is entered into a destination airport field, if it is known to the system (which it would be in ths case) it is then added to the Airport List.

Don

[colin_d]

Hi Don,

However, what would you think of also opening the "find ICAO" dialog if the user types a question mark (?) in the destination airport field and, if he/she then clicks on an ICAO code, automatically entering the last-selected ICAO code (if there is one) into the destination field when the "find ICAO" dialog is closed?


This seems like it could be a very helpful option although I can't help thinking that anyone writing flightplans would already know the airport ICAOs which they will use in their flightplans so might be overkill. When I went through the routine as detailed in my earlier post I clicked on the 'Find ICAO Identifier' more out of curiousity than any desire to utilise the function.


When a new airport is entered into a destination airport field, if it is known to the system (which it would be in ths case) it is then added to the Airport List.
Don

Using one of your earlier betas this was, indeed, the case and I successfully wrote, compiled and subsequently saved all the relevant three files which included the airports I had entered into the destination field - and the Traffic.bgl worked!

Colin

[gadgets]

All the bugs identified by Colin have been fixed in beta 0.54 (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v054.zip).

[colin_d]

Hi Don,

Have tried beta 054 which is a significant improvement. There are still some bugs to overcome though. I've starred the problems again for quick access.

As before I tried to load three aircraft using the 'Add New Aircraft' option. After each aircraft was selected from the chosen folder I clicked 'Add to List'

***the whole box closed down which meant going through the 'Add New Aircraft' routine from the beginning again.

Eventually all three aircraft were loaded.
The 'Start New FP' button wasn't live this time so went straight to first flight plan for aircraft no.1. This comprised 10 legs spanning 6 days and all went well and as expected. The 'Start New FP' button went live as soon as I wrote the first leg. Clicked to 'Add FP to List'

***got an error box saying Arrival and Departure airport were the same in leg one

I re-wrote leg one identically and clicked 'Add FP to List'. This time all went well with flightplan appearing in the 'FLIGHT PLAN FILE' area. Started on aircraft no. 2 flightplan which was 2 legs over 6 days. This went according to plan apart from when I didn't enter an altitude and got an error box informing me so.

***When I clicked the box to close it all of the leg data disappeared and had to be rewritten all over again. (not so much a bug more an inconvenience)

Otherwise the flighplan went as expected and was added to the FLIGHT PLAN FILE. Start on aircraft no.3. Flightplan was 4 legs spanning 6 days and entered the leg details as before.


***This time 7 days appeared on each leg and no matter what I did I couldn't change this.


***When the flightplan was finished I could not add it to the FLIGHT PLAN FILE despite clicking the button many times.

Eventually I decided to compile the two I had managed to add to the list and everything went as expected with a new Traffic.bgl written.

So Don, still a few bugs but certainly a lot more usable than before with the leg data appearing where it should be. There are some nice touches like the flight time being calculated and available as an option to use and the leg data is nicely presented for checking at any time. You're making good progress.

Colin

[gsnde]

Hi Don,

My findings for the last version.


start the tool
menu Aircraft / Load New Aircraft File (for larger files the hourglass would be nice while the load operation still goes on)
click Start New Flightplan (probably not needed but button is activated)
select aircraft
complete Start Airport, Active Level, Repeat Period, FP Type, Tail Number
complete Flight Number, Departure Time, To, Arrival Time by ETA button, Altitude
Click Save Edited Leg Data
Click Add Leg
A new blank blue line is added in the Leg Listbox as line two
Start Airport, Active Level, Repeat Period, FP Type, Tail Number are correctly pre-filled
complete Flight Number, Departure Time, To Airport (I took the Home Airport), Altitude



At this point two things need to be said.


The ETA button does not work. All fields are completed, still the button does not get activated
I can click on Save Edited Leg Data without the Arrival Time Field being completed which leads to no error message and unwanted results


If I manually provide an arrival time, the leg is saved correctly.

If I leave the Arrival time empty and click on the Save button, the original leg 1 is overwritten with leg 2 and the second leg is deleted from the list. This should not be.

I have monitored the ETA button behaviour and there is something wrong with it (Don't you threaten me with removal again ;)).


If you start a new flight plan it is correctly disabled.
It gets enabled when you have provided Departure Time and To Airport from the first leg
If you click on Save Edited Leg data it gets not disabled.
If you click on Add Leg it gets not disabled. Here it should be disabled, agree?
Now on the second leg, after I enter something in the free fields the ETA button is then disabled, and will not be enabled again, no matter what I do.


So far for now.

[gadgets]

For Martin and Colin.

Martin, are you using 0.53 or 0.54 (released yesetrday afternoon). Based on the symptoms you're reporting, it sounds like 0.53 (though there may still be some ETA isssus in 0.54 which I'll check.) Incidentally, the next release will feature a progress bar for lengthy processes.

Colin, sorry about the auto-closing of the aircraft editor. Silly coding error and fixed. I'm chasing your other issues but need some clarification.
'Start New FP' button went live as soon as I wrote the first leg. Clicked to 'Add FP to List'

***got an error box saying Arrival and Departure airport were the same in leg one That's correct operation for the Start New FP button. Did you save another leg before clicking on Add FP to List? (It should not be enabled until there are at least two legs programmed.) In any case, FP's are still not being saved correctly.
***When I clicked the box to close it all of the leg data disappeared and had to be rewritten all over again.To what box are you referring?

Hopefully, I'll have another release ready this afternoon.

Dn

[colin_d]

Hi Don,


That's correct operation for the Start New FP button.

I had realised that and my mentioning it was just confirmation that it was working as you'd intended.

Did you save another leg before clicking on Add FP to List? (It should not be enabled until there are at least two legs programmed.)

All 10 legs had been input and I was surprised at the error because there was nothing wrong in the flightplan. To correct it I just repeated the coding exactly for the first leg. When I've been playing around with AIFP in the past it sometimes threw up the first leg airport error so it probably needs a little further investigation.

To what box are you referring?

There was an error box informing me I had not entered any altitude. When I closed it all the other leg data vanished. As I said before this isn't a bug as such, just an inconvenience.

Hopefully, I'll have another release ready this afternoon.


Looking forward to it but as I have to go out now I won't pick it up till late this evening (UK time).

Colin

[gadgets]

Let's give it another try, please. Version 0.55 (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v055.zip)is now available.

Colin, I was unable to duplicate your "same start and end airports" problem, but I suspect I know what was wrong and it has been fixed (or changed, at least) If the problem recurs, please send me a screenshot so I can duplicate your entries.) I was also unable to duplicate the situation where flights operated on all seven days despite your best efforts otherwise. Is it possible you hadn't selected the frequency. (AIFP assumes 24hr if nothing else is selected - which forces all 7 days.) Otherwise, I believe this release addresses all identifed problems. Still haven't gotten around to completing the narrative on new flight plan entry. Maybe tomorrow ...

Don

[gsnde]

Hi Don,

This is the first time I see the airports being added to the "Airports included in flight plans" listbox.

The progress bar is very helpful.

All mentioned below for start from scratch planing.


But no matter what I do - my beloved ETA button does not kick in. It stays deactivated all the time.
And when I add a new leg, the departure airport is no longer pre-filed correctly with the target airport of the last leg.
If I double-click on a leg in the leg listbox, I can no longer change the departure airport (the field stays disabled)
If I delete all legs from the leg listbox, I can no longer start a new planning - the Start New FP button is disabled. Later I have found that I can add a new leg.
Something is screwed with the validation when I want to add a flight to the Flightplan listbox via Add FP to List. On first try it said that the flight would not end where it began. Starting from new now it says that Leg1 has same departure and destination airport. Both was not true (neither from what I have entered nor from what the screen said).


So far for now.

[gadgets]

Martin, some of what you are reporting is intended operation; I just haven't had a chance to document it. Others - well see below.
But no matter what I do - my beloved ETA button does not kick in. It stays deactivated all the time. I just can't duplicate the problem. So long as the departure time is specified, the aircraft is selected and the departure and destination airports are known to the system, it seems to work properly for me. If the airports aren't known to the system, there is no lat/lon available for the distance computation. If the airports are known, the city will be automatically filled in the airport fields in the editor.
And when I add a new leg, the departure airport is no longer pre-filed correctly with the target airport of the last leg Oops. One of my changes must have had an unintended side effect. (I can duplicate.)
If I double-click on a leg in the leg listbox, I can no longer change the departure airport (the field stays disabled) I assume you mean the "Starts at Airport". If so, this is new and intended. I only leave the "Starts at Airport" field "open" until you enter enough legs to make a complete cycle e.g.., A to B to C and then back to A. After that, the "Starts At Airport" is automatically set as the destination airport of the last leg - which is the way the sim handles it. If this is confusing, I can go back to the old way.
If I delete all legs from the leg listbox, I can no longer start a new planning - the Start New FP button is disabled. Later I have found that I can add a new leg. The Start New FP button simply clears out the Leg List. If the leg list is empty, it doesn't need to be cleared, so the button is disabled.
On first try it said that the flight would not end where it began.This means that there wwere not enough legs in the flight plan to make a complete cycle, i.e., the last leg didn't terminate at the "Starts-at Airport" - which, if course, it must to operate in the sim. But as the advisory maeesage says, the flight plan is still valid; it just won't start at the Starts-at Airport, it will start at the last airport entered.
Starting from new now it says that Leg1 has same departure and destination airport. Both was not true (neither from what I have entered nor from what the screen said).Can you send me a screen-shot please. I can't duplicate with the data I'm entering.

Sorry for the difficulties. I had high hopes for this release. I won't have a chance to make another release today, but should be OK for tomorrow.

Don

Don

[gadgets]

Martin, further to my response of a short while ago, while I thought I could duplicate your second problem, I now can't. It works every time for me. would you m ind telling me step-by-step what you are doing?

RE the ETA issue, the ETA button won't be enabled until all four entities exist and the cursor is moved away from the last-entered field.

[gadgets]

Beta release 0.56 (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v056.zip)fixes the "flight plan doesn't start and end at the same airport" error. Still can't duplicate the "start and end airports (for a leg) are the same" problem. I'll try again tomorrow.

Don

[colin_d]

Hi Don,

Is it possible you hadn't selected the frequency. Don
This is quite possible as I don't recall filling it in for the flightplan involved and although I try to check everything when things don't go right, sometimes an error gets away unnoticed. I've downloaded your latest beta but as it's a bit late I'll try to get all flightplans for all aircraft compiled tomorrow all in one go. Will inform you of results.

Colin

[gadgets]

I've taken another look at the code involved with the "departure and destination airports are the same" error message. This occurred for both on you on leg 1, which is indicative of a problem in determining the start airport for the flight plan. Since the bug causing the "flight plan doesn't start and end at the same airport" issue was also due to an erroneous (under certain circumstances) start airport, I'm hopeful I've "killed two birds with one stone" with the fix in 0.56. I'm sure you'll let me know if that is not the case.;)

Don

[gsnde]

Good Morning and Happy Easter!

I will test the new build today and will provide a step by step of what I am doing.

[colin_d]

Hi Don,

Have run through latest beta which, on the whole, worked very well but... (yes there's a but) the 'Add FP to List' button is still producing error boxes.
After entering the flight plan for aircraft no.1 clicking the button produced this message

Leg 1 has the same departure and destination airports onMonday

(The lack of space between 'on' and 'Monday' is how it appears)
The remedy was as before - just re-enter the identical leg data, click the 'Add FP to List' button and it accepted it.
After entering the flightplans for aircraft no.s 2 & 3 and clicking the button the following message appeared in both cases.

Flight plan does not end at the designated "Starts at Airport". However, the flight plan is still valid. Save it?

Clicking ok each time and the flight plan was added to the list so all three flight plans were added to the FLIGHT PLAN FILE and were able to be compiled.

Martin, I had no problem with the ETA button and, apart from when I re-entered the leg data on the first flightplan, it worked as expected. If you have problems with it check that you have a 'Starts at Airport', a 'To' and an aircraft 'Title' entered in their respective boxes.

Don, its a great improvement but still has errors when adding flight plans to the list. I had no problem with the days so I guess it must have been my error previously.

Colin

For any others following this thread these results are using AIFP to write flight plans from scratch, ie without the usual three files which are needed using Ttools.

[gsnde]

OK, off to the test run.


start the tool
menu "Aircraft" / select "Load New Aircraft File"
enter 'EDTG' at field "Starts at Airport"
enter '5' at field "Activity Level (%)"
select '24hr' at option list "Repeat Period"
select 'IFR' at option list "FP Type"
select 1st aircraft from aircraft listbox
enter '12345' at field "Tail Number"
select 'F' in option list "Flight No"
enter '23456' at field "Flight No"
enter '1000' at field "Departure Time"
enter 'ETAR' at field "To"
use "ETA" button (here it goes again :))
enter '150' at field "Alt."
click on button "Save Edited Leg Data"
click on button "Add Leg"


OK, things are getting clear now. The field "Starts at airport" will stay the same after the first leg has been saved. It shows the airport of origin.

The respective departure airport for a given leg is automatically taken from the last leg and you see it in the field "From".

:) Very good, Don. This makes sense as soon as you know it. Perfect.


I add a second leg from 'ETAR' to 'LFSB'
I add the return leg from 'LFSB' to 'EDTG'
I click on button "Add Flightplan to List"


Operation completed without error. Now that the concept is clear, is there anything left causing irritation? Mmmh, maybe that the airport of origin can be changed while I can add legs?

I will now test what happens if I do so.


click on button "Start new FP"
enter 'EDTG' at field "Starts at Airport"
enter '5' at field "Activity Level (%)"
select '24hr' at option list "Repeat Period"
select 'IFR' at option list "FP Type"
select 1st aircraft from aircraft listbox
enter '12345' at field "Tail Number"
select 'F' in option list "Flight No"
enter '23456' at field "Flight No"
enter '1000' at field "Departure Time"
enter 'ETAR' at field "To"
use "ETA" button (here it goes again :))
enter '150' at field "Alt."
click on button "Save Edited Leg Data"
click on button "Add Leg"
enter 'LFSB' in the "To" field
enter '34567' in the "Flight No" field
enter '1200' in the "Departure Time" field
use the "ETA" button
enter 150 in the "Alt." field
click on "Save Edited Leg Data" button
change "Starts at Airport" field from 'EDTG' to 'ETNS'
click button "Add Leg"
enter '45678' in the field "Flight No"
enter '1400' in the field "Departure Time"
enter 'ETNS' in the field "To"
click on button "ETA"
enter '150' in the field "Alt"
click on button "Save Edited Leg Data"
--> the "Starts at Airport" field becomes disabled - good :)
click on "Add FP to List" button


YEEEESS. No errors, and the operation makes logical sense. You can become wiser and realized that you airport of origin was wrong and correct that while building the flight as long as the return flight has not been entered.

One thing: After the circle is closed, the "Add Leg" button is still enabled. While it makes sense that the "Insert Leg" button is enabled, the "Add Leg" button should not, right? I will now test what happens when I click on it.

Oops. Yes, this is screwing up things, so this button should definitely be disabled as soon as the leg circuit is closed. This is what happens. Remember, we started at 'ETNS' and ended at 'ETNS'.


click button "Add Leg"
provide everything with "To" airport being 'ETAR'
click on button "Save Edited Leg Data"
the airport of origin "Starts at Airport" field is now changed to 'ETAR'


I stop here because this is probably a not wanted route anyway.

I tested the "Insert Leg" functionality and this works perfectly, even when adding a leg before the first one.

I tested the "Delete Leg" functionality. Works as well. If you delete the last Leg, the airport of origin is automatically corrected.

One remark on the error checking for time fields. For testing purposes enter 'aaaa' into the departure field and go to the next field by either using tab or clicking with the mouse. You receive an error message, but the focus is already on the next field. You can not go back to the time field by using the mouse, only by using ctrl-tab, which not everybody might know. If possible the check should take place before exit so that the focus stays in the field.

To make things easy for you, here summarized what I rate as to be corrected.


After a flight circuit is closed, disable the "Add Leg" button
Correct error checking for time fields so that the focus is not changed


This is a great release, Don. Happy Easter :D

[gsnde]

I have tested flight plans on a weekly repeat period stretching over all days of week and in some other variations - all work without problem.

[gadgets]

Thanks, guys. I'll track down the remaining issues today.

Colin, since you're still getting the "leg 1" error message and Martin isn't, it must be data dependent. It appears that, for whatever reason, the starts-at airport has been improperly set (by AIFP) when you first attempt to save. By re-entereing the first leg (or any leg) the starts-at airport is recalculated - correctly. That's why it works the second time. The purpose of the check is to ensure that a complete cycle (A to B to C and back to A) is programmed. (I thought about disabling the add/insert button until that was the case, but inexperienced users may not realize why the buttons weren't enabled.) Would you please send me a screenshot of a situation that causes the error - before you correct it.

Martin, in some fields, I probably could do error checking before you move the cursor to another field. But, to avoid extraneous error messages before the field was ready to be checked, I'd have to assume when the user was done. In fields that don't have a rigid format, e.g., airports where the ICAO cade may be either 3 or 4 characters, or time where the user can enter almost anything he/she wants so long as the system can convert to a valid 24hr time (4 digits - no separator, 3 digits plus separator, 4 digits plus separator, etc.), at what point would I error check? It is strange that you were unable to move the cursor back into a specific field. (Something else for me to do today.)

Incidentally, Martin, were you able to determine the cause of your previous problem with the ETA button? (I assume the "smileys" mean that it's now working.)

I'll try to get another (hopefully final) beta release out today. But, it sounds like 0.55 is quite useable so long as you ignore the "leg 1" warning - which can safely be done.

Have a great weekend,
Don

[gadgets]

Martin, I am unable to duplicate the situation where the cursor cannot be moved back into the time field with the mouse after the "aaaa" error. That sort of thing is handled by Windows and (I don't think) I have no control over it. What I will do when an error message is given, however, is automatically move the cursor back to the field in error once the error is acknowledged.

Don

[colin_d]

Hi Don,

Having read through Martins sequence I've cottoned on to what may have caused the 'Leg 1' problems. I kept putting in the 'Starts At' airport for each leg when it wasn't necessary. I was just playing around with AIFP before coming here and using Martins method eliminated the 'Leg 1' error by ignoring the 'Starts At' box once the first airport had been entered. I noticed that the box greyed out after a while and the thought occurs that perhaps greying out the box after the start airport has been entered and the first leg saved might be worthwhile. I also tried out your ? in the 'To' box and it works well, a good improvement.

All in all very good progress and a very useable utility.

I have some queries on distance and time calculations but they can wait as they are just refinements that may or may not be valid and can be discussed once the basic utility is working properly.

Colin

[gadgets]

That would do it! Since others are liable to do the same thing, perhaps I should use the "Starts At Airport" field for advisory purposes only and enable the "From" field on the first leg of a new flight plan only. I need to think about this some more.

Re distance/duration/ETA, all I do at the moment is divide the distance between the two airports by the cruising speed of the designated aircraft and add 15 minutes. As you've noticed, that's very crude. (Lee Swordy's method is not documented in the TTools source code he released.) I'd be pleased to hear your ideas on predicting arrival time.

Don

[colin_d]

Hi Don,

As you've raised the topic now I was curious as to how you calculate the distance between the two airports as the flightplans I am putting in come from the website of a small carrier in southwest England and on their website they say 'Flying time is 15 minutes' refering to one of their destinations. As AIFP is calculating a 31 minute flight time it doubles the theoretical time. So I used an orthodromic calculator (available on Avsim) to work out the distance between the two airports and to calculate the time it should take. The results were quite surprising as the OrthoCalc made the distance 26NM whereas AIFP made it 39NM. As you've now told me how the flight time is calculated it explains the doubling of the time but the distance still remains an enigma. I don't know how you could fit adding a varying time depending on distance, perhaps, as it would make the calculations much more complicated but, as you can see, on a short flight it could be quite an issue. I love writing flight plans for island hopping carriers and some of them are quite short. Just some thoughts to ponder, as I said earlier it's probably best to get AIFP working well before addressing these sorts of refinements

Colin

[gsnde]

That would do it! Since others are liable to do the same thing, perhaps I should use the "Starts At Airport" field for advisory purposes only and enable the "From" field on the first leg of a new flight plan only. I need to think about this some more.

Don,

A good way would be to disable the field after the first leg is saved, but add another button to allow "Change Origin Airport". The functionality would stay, but it would need an extra action and so the chance to do it by error is reduced.

As for the date field error: this was on Vista 32. Again, I entered four characters in the field, then went to the next. I was able to go back into the date field with Control Tab key, but not with the mouse. When I tried with the mouse, I get the error message and ended up in the same field.

[gadgets]

Colin, I'm happy to put in any reasonable calculation.

My distance calculation is purely great circle distance, so I don't know how the orthodromic calculator managed to make the distance less. I'll download it and run some comparisons.

As for the 15 min increment, airline schedules are gate-to-gate, so I added an arbitrary amount to account for taxi time. It usually gets to within ten minutes of the scheluded arrival times for the flights I've programmed so far. Maybe I need to add an option to include taxi time.

Martin, sounds like a "Vista-special" to me. I assume the error message you receive when you attempt to position the cursor back into the erroneous field with the mouse is the same as the earlier message (and not one related to the second field). To which field do you move the mouse when you get the error message the first time? If to the other time field (which, if also erroneous would generate an identical error message), try going to, say, the altitude field instead and see if you get the same result. In any case, I hope it become a non-issue in the next release where I reposituion the cursor to the erroneous field automatically (assuming Vista accepts it). BTW, thanks for the suggestion on how to handle the "Starts at Airport" field.

Don

[gadgets]

Colin, I've now confirmed that my great circle distance calculator is "sick". Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Martin, earlier you suggested that I disable "Add Leg" once the cycle was complete. I can't do that, because a given flight plan may include more than one cycle, e.g., A -> B -> C -> A -> D -> C. Yes, as soon as you enter fourth leg, the Starts-at Airport will change to "D", but it will change back to "C" when the fifth leg is entered. (This may not be what's happening now, but that's what should happen.) To avoid the C-D-C switch in start-at airport, I'd have regard this entry as "gospel" and make the user either confrom the flight plan or change the starts-at airport. I need to consider the ramifications of doing this.

Don

[gsnde]

I need to consider the ramifications of doing this.

Don, take your time and think about the final design details. This last update was an enormous step.

Looking forward to the next release.

[gsnde]

I assume the error message you receive when you attempt to position the cursor back into the erroneous field with the mouse is the same as the earlier message (and not one related to the second field). To which field do you move the mouse when you get the error message the first time?

Just discovered your question....

Your assumption is right. I was going from "Departure time" to the "To" field (I am doing this by heart - the next field to the right). It is no time field.

[gadgets]

I think I've found a way to implement use of local times for arrivals and departures. So, I'm going to spend the next couple of days exploring it.

Fortunately, this won't involve major surgery; the time zone processing is confined to only two routines. Keep your fingers crossed guys.

Don

[gsnde]

Keep your fingers crossed guys.

Don

Hi Don,

in films they always say this when they do something really dangerous :D

Hope the patient has recovered from the surgery ;)

[gadgets]

Local times are now useable. I also took the opportunity to make the coding more robust in some areas - which is why it's been a week without a new release. I expect to complete testing of the new release later today.

You'll like it!

Don

[gsnde]

I am sure I will. It has been a very busy week anyway ;)

[gadgets]

A new beta release (0.6) (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v60.zip) has been uploaded.

This new release contains some very significant changes - both internal and external. So, please read the "Notes for Beta Testers" included in the release before installing the new version.

I'm hopeful that we are now very close to release. While I wouldn't say my regression testing has been exhaustive, it certainly has been comprehensive. The release seems well-behaved.

As always, thanks for your efforts.

Don

[colin_d]

Hi Don,

Have downloaded and run your latest beta.
I've used the same flight plans as before but have upped the aircraft count to five and the flight plans cover the entire summer schedule for the carrier for 2008. I'm pleased to say that everything went perfectly. Not being able to save the leg data till all all boxes had been filled was a notable improvement and your distance calculator is also much improved. Unfortunately I won't be able to do more testing for a week or so as I will be away for that time but my first run through gives AIFP an emphatic thumbs up.
Thanks for your continued work on a valuable piece of software.

Colin

[gsnde]

Don,

I will give it a test ride today evening. I had a very quick look at it and this is what happens when I click on ETA:

Departure Airport: EDTG
Target Aiport: ETAR
Departure time: 10:00

ETA produces an Arrival Time of: -7479:-27+1 (which in consequence leads to an error). Since Colin has not seen it, might this be related to comma/point as the separator?

[gadgets]

Thanks, Colin. The problem with distance/duration was that I was feeding the lat/lon to the great circle distance calcultor in the wrong order. As well, I have confirmed that I'm using the same algorithm as TTools, i.e., (distance/cruise speed) + 15 min.

Martin, I can't duplicate the problem even using a comma for a separator in time. Please chack that the airport name as well as the ICAO code is filled in automatically in the airport fields. My system reports distance as 92 nm and calcualtes duration and arrival time correctly. What, exactly did you type for departure time? What is the repeat period? What time zone are you using? If local time, please check that the correct UTC offset is shown in the Airport List.

Don

[gsnde]

Don,

I neither :o I realize that this is the second time we have this problem. Only last time I lost track of it because there was another release from you.

What is happening is that it works beautiful on my German language Vista Flightsim PC with regional settings for German.

It does not work on my notebook where I sometimes happen to look into this forum from work ;) That setup is and English XP with German regional settings (if I am not mistaken, I confirm tomorrow).

So the good news is here it works. Still it is strange, because it should to so no matter what OS and regional setting, right?

[gadgets]

Martin, next time it happens, please record exactly what was entered for time and see if the distance and duration values are reasonable.

Thanks,
Don

[gsnde]

German XP with German regional settings produces the same error.

[gsnde]

Don,

The screen shot from my last post was from my home laptop (German XP with German regionla settings).

The identical failure occurs on my work laptop (arrival time string is -7479:-27+1), which is running an English XP with German regional settings.

I have no error on my desktop which is running a German Vista Professional with German regional settings.

Aside from that the main difference of these machines is that on the desktop FSX is installed. But your program is not depending on any other installation, right?

If you are following the discussion on the current release of ADE you may have noticed that we as well face a regional setting problem which only happens under special conditions. So maybe you want to have a chat with Jon if you feel this might be related.

[gadgets]

Thanks, Martin. I've now managed to duplicate it using German settings with XP. It's a general (in AIFP) time formatting problem. Now, I've got to find it.
Don

[gadgets]

Found it! I was using a comma as a separator in a text string which included a number with a decimal point. With German localization selected, the string contained one more comma than I anticipated. The problem (should) only occur if you are using local standard time coupled with germanic localization.

Martin, have you found anything else? If not, do you think I should delay release any longer?

Don

[gadgets]

Given that local time is a major "selling point" for AIFP, I thought I should re-release with that bug fixed. I have also completed the user manual and updated the timezone database. New version here (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v061.zip).

Unless someone finds a problem with this version, I will release it in the next few days.

Don

[gsnde]

Don,

I will give it a another good check.

[gsnde]

Don,

The error is partly corrected. I say partly because I have found another one :o, which is most likely related somehow

This is what I do:

I start like last time and select the flight from EDTG to ETAR, beginning at 10:00 and ETA gives me the right value now. I save the leg data.

I add a new leg. This time going from ETAR to KLAX. Starting at 12:00. The distance and duration is correctly displayed (at least the numbers make sense). But the Arrival Time is "00:50+1".

A bit of testing indicates the problem is due to the fact that the flight is taking longer than 12 hours. This happens on XP as well as on Vista.

[gadgets]

Martin, I'm not sure what you see as the problem. If the "+1", it is intentional, indicating that the flght arrives the following day. The "+1" will not be transcribed to the Flight Plan List - unless you're using weekly frequency in which case it will be reflected as the day of departure plus one - as it should be. Using local times, that suffic could also be -1 (crossing the date line eastbound) or +2 (crossing the dateline westbound on a flight that departs North America for, say, Singapore shortly before midnight.

Since I suspect arrival times will be of concern primarily with airline traffic, I'm trying to emulate airline schedules which often use such flags.

Don

[gsnde]

So much the better, Don.
For me it was looking like an invalid time code, because I did not know this notation.

[gsnde]

Don,

I liked your explanation very much, but not so your program :D

If I try to save the leg data with a string like "01:20+1" in arrival time (like in above example), I get an exception error saying error during conversion to a double data type.

Have you tried to reproduce my script?

[gadgets]

Sorry about that. It was a misplaced parenthesis ")". But, there is another bug "lurking behind it". I'll clean it up and re-release later today.
Don

[gadgets]

Beta release 0.62 now available (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v062.zip). It fixes the problem Martin identified and allows the user to edit the Aircraft List using either the built-in editor or in TTools format using the default text editor.

Don

[gadgets]

I hope this is the last one, guys. Beta version 0.63 available here (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v063.zip).

The most significant change is that the "Start-at" airport is gone. Please pay close attention to the airport AI Flight Planner identifies as the originating airport. The other changes are largely cosmetic. Please read the Notes to Beta Testers.

Have fun,
Don

[gsnde]

Don,

Maybe I am doing something wrong. I have loaded an aircraft file and started a flight plan from scratch.

I could enter Repeat Period, select an aircraft, enter the tail number and the activity level.

But I can't continue from here on, because all other fields are disabled. When I toggle the 'Use Local Time' checkbox, I am told that data has been changed and am asked if I want to save it. If I say yes then it tells me that a departure time must be provided - logical, but I can't do it.

This is with XP.

[gadgets]

No, you weren't doing anything wrong. Yesterday, while I was adjusting the positioning of the controls to accommodate the removal of the "starts-up" airport, for some unknown reason the FP Type group box got disabled. v064 uploaded. (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v064.zip)

Sorry,
Don

[gsnde]

Don,

I have another error now. What I do is plan a flight from scratch from EDTG to ETAR at 10:00. I use the ETA button and save the leg. OK so far.

Then I add a new leg at 12:00 to KLAX.When I click save leg I get an index out of array error.

After I confirm the error with continue, the line of the first leg in the leg list box is empty (though still there).

This time it is on Vista.

[gadgets]

That was an elusive one. Please try again with 0.65 (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v065.zip).

Thanks,
Don

[gsnde]

Hi Don,

OK, this last bug is ferret out.

Question: Do I see that you don't add the +1 to the arrival time when you make a flight that leads into a new day?

Suggestion: I have caught me again while testing this time that I opened up firefox to search for the ICAO of Mather AFB. For those like me who can not easily remember ICAOs it would be more than helpful to have a small button beside the airport from and to filed, which on click opens a search mask for either ICAO or airport name.

Bug:

This is what I did. I only give you the relevant parts so that you can reproduce it.


Start tool, start flight plan from scratch
First leg: EDTG departure time 10:00 to ETAR (use ETA button)
Second leg: ETAR departure time 11:00 to KLAX (use ETA button)
Third leg: KLAX departure time 15:00 to KMHR (use ETA button)
Fourth leg: KMHR departure time 09:00 to CYYR (use ETA button)


As soon as I press 'Save edited leg data' this last leg is shifted to first position. It looks like the leg are sorted by the departure time. To confirm I add the next leg at 9:30 and then one at 07:00, which I expect to go on second and first place.


Fifth leg: departure time 09:30 to KBIF (use ETA button)
Sixth leg: departure time 07:00 to EDTG (use ETA button)


==> It looks like every leg is sorted in the list according to the departure time. Therefore the flight plan shuffles completely.
==> surprisingly for the last two legs I suddenly had the +values in the arrival time again. So why were they missing for leg 2?

[gadgets]

Thanks for the report, Martin.

First, the good news. The ICAO lookup capability is already there - in two places. First, the top item in the Airports menu and second, if you type a question mark (?) into any airport field.

The "+1" suffix should be there in every case of arrival on a different calendar day from departure. But, it is there only in the editor and the Leg List. You should not see it back in the flight plan list.

Yes, the Leg List is sorted by time. This is a recent change. (I assume) Legs must be sorted by time for the flight plan to be valid in the sim. Is this sorting a problem for you?

That's an interesting flight plan - four trans-Atlantic crossings in the same day plus a couple of local flights? If you had created the same flight plan without the legs being sorted and compiled it with TTools or AIFPC, would all legs have operated in the sim? Have you discovered a way to spawn simultaneous AI flights from a single flight plan? If so, I need to make AI Flight Planner a little "smarter". (Had you attempted to save this flight plan back into the Flight Plan List, you would/should have received several "departure before arrival" error messages.)

When you add a leg, the departure airport set by the system is the destination of the last leg in the Leg List. When you insert a leg, the departure airport is set as the destination of the leg immediately previous to the insertion point.) The departure airport is used to calculate ETA. (Incidentally, there's nothing special about an arrival time set using the ETA button. Once entered, there's no record that it wasn't typed by the user.) For the last two flights entered, since you added them, the departure airport would be KMHR. Given the 8hr time difference, the 0700 departure to EDTG would have arrived after midnight (local or GMT); hence the "+1". I can't explain the "+1" suffix on the 0930 departure to KBIF. Were you using local times? If not, what time zone was set, please?

Finally, you said I add the next leg at 9:30 and then one at 07:00, which I expect to go on second and first place.I hope that is where they actually were placed.

The really good news is that you didn't encounter any other difficulties. Unless the sorting of the Leg list creates some difficulty with the sim, perhaps we're finally "there".

Don

[gsnde]

Don,

It's a Habu I’m flying :D

The route is not realistic and the main purpose of it is not to go there but find possible errors. And for that purpose it was quite good over the last weeks.

Logical evaluation
I guess we are running into problems if a flight is taking longer than the repeat period is adjusted to. I have expected this is checked and handled automatically. I think the user should be warned in such a case. Even better would be to clear the repeat period selection so that he is forced to actually re-adjust this setting.

Let us find out what is happening. I start a flight plan with a short trip from EDTG to ETAR and then head of to KLAX. Depending on my departure time (12:00 or 14:00) I will arrive at KLAX on the same or the next day.

What should happen from my point of view is this: when I am on a daily repeat modus (1h-24h) and my flight plan is exceeding the respective time circuit, this should not be allowed, because it will not lead to a usable flight in FS.

The same is true for the weekly schedule. Say I start with above example on Monday. If my flight ends up in KLAX on Tuesday, this should be reflected in the week day settings automatically when I add a third leg. It should not be possible to define a flight plan which is not logical. So the second leg e.g. should not be allowed to depart before the arrival time of the first leg.

Errors when switching between repeat periods
I have seen errors when I was messing around with changing the repeat settings from a daily base to week within a flight plan in progress. The errors were different ones at different times. I have seen something like a freeze where I had to kill the program with the task manager. Then I had a situation where I had lots of unhandled exceptions errors. I tried several times to make to get a reproducible row of events, but it seems to be rather erratic.

Sorry for not providing a better script. You will see it yourself when you add legs and change the repeat period for already saved legs.

Leg display sorting
Sorting the leg display on departure time makes it rather hard to read and is the first design change since the start which I see as a step in the wrong direction. If I imagine that I plan a week trip and while I add the different parts they are getting re-sorted I must say that this probably has a lot potential of confusion.

Change time zone before first leg
Something else I found is that if you change the time zone before you have added data for the first leg, you are informed that "changes have been made to the current flight plan and if you want to save it". If you answer yes it can't save because the departure time is missing.

Time conversion error
There is still something wrong with the time conversion. See the screen shot. My time zone is always UTC +1.

[gadgets]

It's a Habu I’m flying :D

The route is not realistic and the main purpose of it is not to go there but find possible errors. And for that purpose it was quite good over the last weeks.Yes, this routing certainly has been helpful at finding errors over the past little while.

The system is leg oriented. Checks on the whole flight plan before the flight plan is complete may generate some not-so-useful error messages. However, leg duration > repeat period can be checked and I will issue a warning. (If I clear the repeat selection, the leg fields will become disabled.) While I don't do so at the moment, I can also check total flight time when the flight plan is saved and generate another warning there if it exceeds the repeat period.

I've never changed repeat period while editing. The problems likely occur when switching between weekly and non-weekly flight plans. I'll give that area a thorough check. Re the time zone errors you found, I'll suppress the unnecessary error message. The exception should be easy to track down.

Re automatic sorting of the leg list, the difficulty is that if legs aren't in the proper time sequence, it's difficult to impossible to find, reliably, the departure airport, which makes the distance/duration/ETA always suspect. Let me think about that some more.

Don

[gadgets]

I guess we are running into problems if a flight is taking longer than the repeat period is adjusted to. I have expected this is checked and handled automatically. I think the user should be warned in such a case.The system now checks for arrival and departure times with an hour specification greater that the repeat period. For example, with a 12hr repeat period, a time of 13:15 would be invalid. A warning is issued. I can probably also check total flight plan duration when the modified FP is saved back to the flight plan list.

Change time zone before first legMessage is now issued only if there is at least one complete leg in the Leg List.
Errors when switching between repeat periodsI have been unable to duplicate any of these. But there's very little code left that is executed when these controls are used. Most of it was removed last week along with the "starts-up" airport. That's likely what was causing the problem.

Time conversion errorFixed

Sorting the leg display on departure time makes it rather hard to read and is the first design change since the start which I see as a step in the wrong direction. If I imagine that I plan a week trip and while I add the different parts they are getting re-sorted I must say that this probably has a lot potential of confusion.This is a difficult one. The leg list must be sorted in order to reconstruct the FP for saving. I could copy the list when it's time to save and work on the copy. But, with an unsorted list, the "find departure airport" feature (needed for calculating distance/duration/ETA) won't work reliably - if at all. What I think I'll do in the near term is allow the user to select either a sorted list or an unsorted one but, in the case of the latter, also to sort on command. In either case, once the flight plan is saved and read back into to the editor, it will be sorted.

I'll try to have this all in a release tomorrow. You can take the rest of the day off;).

Don

[gsnde]

You can take the rest of the day off;).

:D

This is a difficult one. The leg list must be sorted in order to reconstruct the FP for saving. I could copy the list when it's time to save and work on the copy. But, with an unsorted list, the "find departure airport" feature (needed for calculating distance/duration/ETA) won't work reliably - if at all. What I think I'll do in the near term is allow the user to select either a sorted list or an unsorted one but, in the case of the latter, also to sort on command. In either case, once the flight plan is saved and read back into to the editor, it will be sorted.

Explain it to me, Don. I am sure that I am still not getting what you are aiming at.

Let me make a simple example without real airports. This is a weekly schedule.


Start Monday at 12:00 at AP1 and go to AP2
Start Tuesday at 11:00 at AP2 and go to AP3
Start Thursday at 09:00 at AP3 and go to AP4
Start Saturday at AP4 at 07:00 and go to AP1


In the leg list the flights would be sorted exactly the other way round like they are taking place, right? So I would see the Saturday flight first, and the Monday flight last. Why does this need to be this way?

Regarding your departure airport comment: It is always the current list entry -1, isn't it? If you add a leg, it is easy, then it is the last one. If you insert or delete a leg, it is more difficulty. But still it would be the one before the current list entry.

I probably miss the crucial point here, which I would like to understand.

[gadgets]

Martin, from your examples and questions, I think that the issue is not whether or not the Leg List should be sorted on departure time, but rather, should the soring be daily- or weekly-based. Daily flight plans would sort the same way on either basis.This is a weekly schedule.

Start Monday at 12:00 at AP1 and go to AP2
Start Tuesday at 11:00 at AP2 and go to AP3
Start Thursday at 09:00 at AP3 and go to AP4
Start Saturday at AP4 at 07:00 and go to AP1

In the leg list the flights would be sorted exactly the other way round like they are taking place, right?Yes, if the sorting is daily-based. However, your example is actually sorted on a weekly basis.
Regarding your departure airport comment: It is always the current list entry -1, isn't it?Yes, for a daily flight plan or a weekly flight plan sorted on a week-basis (such as your example). But, because AI Flight Planner consolidates legs in a weekly flight plan that operate on more than one day, it sorts a daily basis. With daily sorting, the departure airport often is the destination of a leg several places back in the Leg List. Please see Section 6.2 for a discussion of this.

The ability to consolidate legs is a major "selling-point" for AI Flight Planner. However, (with your help:o) I now appreciate that there are situations where consolidation is not desirable. If AI Flight Planner allowed the user to decide on a per flight plan basis whether or not to consolidate, we'd have the best of both worlds.

Let me see if I can make that a user option.

Don

[gsnde]

Don,

Thank you for the nice words :). It is a pleasure to see that this tool is going up all the way to what it has promised right from the start.

I know that you had planned a release already, but I am absolutely sure that this further development time will pay off.

Looking forward to the coming release.

[gadgets]

Please "have a go" at Version 0.66 (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v066.zip). It's behaving pretty well for me (but, I'm so close to it I'm not sure my testing accomplishes much). Everything I planned to do to it (and more) is now done. Now it needs some serious exercising by you guys.

Colin, the Notes to Beta Testers should make you aware of most of the major changes since your last upload. Please be sure to install the new AirportList.dat, the format of which changed while you were away.

Martin, I'll be very interested in your feedback on the non-consolidated mode, the handling of the sub-daily repeat periods and the error checking on both "save leg" and "save fp". (Colin, please feel free to comment as well. I've singled-out Martin because he's found some deficiencies in these areas recently.

Thanks, guys,
Don

[gsnde]

Don,

I will post some unstructured comments whenever they come to my mind (like right now ).

You can select an aircraft and enter a tail-no. before you have clicked on 'Start New FP'. Since you can not enter any other data, and the Aircraft and tail-no are reseted when you click on 'Start New FP', I would disable those two fields as well for startup.

[gsnde]

If you delete a flight plan from the 'Flight Plan File' listbox which is currently open or edit on the right side, the details on the right side stay.

It's more a question than a comment: would it be consequent to clear the right side to a pre-flightplan state (so that you have to begin with 'Start New FP'?

[gsnde]

The error checking for the repeat period work very well. But you only check on 'Save Edited Leg Data', right?

I suggest to check whenever a 'Repeat Period' radio button is clicked, this stop the error on an earlier stage and is more educational.

[gsnde]

Don,

This is about the unconsolidated flight plan mode (I WILL figure out the concept of the consolidated one :o)

I have made tests based on weekly and daily operations and everything works very well and as I expect it to do.

One thing though:

I can add an invalid flight plan ('Add FP To List') on daily operation which leads from airport 1 to airport 2 to airport 3. So I guess the basic error checking looks if there are at least two legs, but not more.

What I suggest is this error checking scheme on the leg list:


the first departure airport is your airport of origin
scan the list, if you return to airport of origin and it is the last list entry then flight plan is ok
if you return to airport of origin and it is not the last list entry then continue scan
no matter how often you start from this airport, the airport of origin will always stay the same and you have to find it as the target airport of the last leg entry, otherwise the flight plan is invalid
if you are on the last list entry and the target is not the airport of origin, then the flight plan is invalid


Is there any error in my logic? If not so, then this would be a good flight plan validity check for the unconsolidated mode.

[gsnde]

When I open this saved flight plan list, and do the following:


double-click on flight plan first list entry
double-click on second flight plan list entry
double-click on first flight plan list entry again


I get this error message:

'You are currently editing a weekly flight plan. Daily or sub-daily repeat periods are not applicable.'

I changed nothing, and never clicked somewhere on the right side.

[colin_d]

Hi Don,

I've given the latest beta a quick run through using Air Berlin flight data covering a weeks flights to fifteen different airports.
It's nice to be able to alter all leg data at will without problems and the ETA was available at all times whenever I altered the departure time. When I saved the leg data for the eleventh leg the columns didn't line up and some of the leg data couldn't be seen. As the flightplan compiled ok my assumption that the leg data was saved correctly seemed to bear out. All other saved leg data lined up as expected. I deleted one or two legs to check out the result and all was well. Re-instating the legs was no problem. The flight plan I was using had put the day 0 departures at the end and when the legs were entered they logically moved to the top of the list. This might be a problem for anyone using this method of day entry because the departure airport for the next added leg follows from the leg data at the bottom of the list. As I was aware of what had happened it was no problem since the departure airport can now be altered if necessary.
Having finished the entire weeks worth of data there was no problem in adding the flightplan to the list and compiling.
When I tried the 'Save File Set' option I got the following error message:

Could not complete writing of flight plan file. Argument 'Start' must be greater than zero.

I was able to save the flightplan and the aircraft file so anything I may have needed was saved and the airports are already available within the program so I didn't feel I had lost anything. All in all the first run through was relatively untroubled with everything coming together as expected at the end. I'll be going for more extensive testing later and will report any problems encountered.

Colin

[gsnde]

When I tried the 'Save File Set' option I got the following error message:

Could not complete writing of flight plan file. Argument 'Start' must be greater than zero.
...
Colin

I can confirm this, Colin. It happens with 'Save File Set', while I could use the 'Save As...' command.

[gadgets]

Thanks, guys. Looks like were making progress. I'm going to be out for much of the day so may not get these all fixed. But, I'll try to release fixes for any critical errors tonight.

I can add an invalid flight plan ('Add FP To List') on daily operation which leads from airport 1 to airport 2 to airport 3.Martin, why do you think this is invalid? All legs are now checked at time of FP save.

I'll respond to other commnets later.

Don

[gadgets]

A question I meant to ask in my earlier post.

Currently, if you leave the arrival time field blank, the time will remain blank until computed by the compiler (TTools sytle). Since AI Flight Planner uses the same algorithm as the compiler (which I hope to improve), should I automatically insert arrival time when the FP is saved?

The advantage of doing this over using the ETA button is that, if the departure time is later changed, a new arrival time will be calclated automatically whereas if the user entered a arrival time using the ETA button or otherwise, the arrival time will remain unchanged until the user decides otherwise.

Your thoughts, please.
Don

[gadgets]

I'm back. Now some responses:
You can select an aircraft and enter a tail-no. before you have clicked on 'Start New FP'. Since you can not enter any other data, and the Aircraft and tail-no are reseted when you click on 'Start New FP', I would disable those two fields as well for startup. The aircraft list is left enabled so that it can be worked on in the absence of a flight plan. This is especially desirable when starting from scratch, since it's nice to have the aircraft list set up before you start entering flight plans. The tail number, however, should be disabled as you suggest. (Despite its position, it is not related to the editing of the Aircraft List.)
If you delete a flight plan from the 'Flight Plan File' listbox which is currently open or edit on the right side, the details on the right side stay.

It's more a question than a comment: would it be consequent to clear the right side to a pre-flightplan state (so that you have to begin with 'Start New FP'? Yes, what you suggest should happen.
The error checking for the repeat period work very well. But you only check on 'Save Edited Leg Data', right?No. Items in the editor that are affected by the new repeat period are checked when the new period is selected. The whole leg is checked on "Save Leg". All legs are checked on "Save FP". What condition is is that you think should be caught but isn't?
What I suggest is this error checking scheme on the leg list:

the first departure airport is your airport of origin
scan the list, if you return to airport of origin and it is the last list entry then flight plan is ok
if you return to airport of origin and it is not the last list entry then continue scan
no matter how often you start from this airport, the airport of origin will always stay the same and you have to find it as the target airport of the last leg entry, otherwise the flight plan is invalid
if you are on the last list entry and the target is not the airport of origin, then the flight plan is invalid In the non-consolidated mode, the departure airport is always the destination airport of the previous leg - except for the first leg, of course, when it is the destination airport of the last leg (i.e, the flight plan wraps around). As I noted earlier, I don't see any problem with your A->B->C flight plan. Perhaps its the fact that you entered A as the departure airport for the first leg and the system didn't object when A wasn't the destination of the last leg. As I point out in the manual, the "From" entry is used only to calculate dist/duration/ETA. As soon as the second leg is entered, if you return to the first leg, you'll see that the system will show the "from" airport as the destination of the second leg. Add a third leg, and the destination of the first leg changes again. What I can do is save the entered start airport and issue a warning if the user attempts to save the flight plan when it does not match the destination of the last leg.

When I open this saved flight plan list, and do the following:

double-click on flight plan first list entry
double-click on second flight plan list entry
double-click on first flight plan list entry again

I get this error message:

'You are currently editing a weekly flight plan. Daily or sub-daily repeat periods are not applicable.'I got over-eager in my checking of repeat periods. Presumably, your first flight plan was daily (or sub-daily) frequency an the second was weekly. That shouldn't happen (of course).
When I saved the leg data for the eleventh leg the columns didn't line up and some of the leg data couldn't be seen. I presume the cause was one field being wider than the column width I have allowed, thus skipping a tab stop. At the moment, I don't limit the width of fields in the Leg List, but I guess I'll have to.
Could not complete writing of flight plan file. Argument 'Start' must be greater than zero. This is a simple coding error which should be easy to find.

Nothing too serious here. I should be able to have it all in working order by tonight. Please respond to my query re setting arrival time ASAP.

Are we getting close?

Don

[colin_d]

Hi Don,

When entering data for each leg I've found that if you have used the ETA button and then change the departure time a new ETA time is available and pressing the ETA button again updates to the new time. As I've always filled in the arrival time this is very helpful. I wasn't aware that you could leave the arrival time unfilled. If I leave the arrival time blank it would be helpful to have it entered in the saved file as this could give guidance when writing other flight plans for similar aircraft but, bearing in mind what is currently happening when writing leg data, is not vital.

Colin

[colin_d]

Hi Don,

We cross posted. I've been out all day and have yet to start testing all the different time periods but based on my previous experience......
Are we getting close? Don
.....yes!

Colin

[colin_d]

I can confirm this, Colin. It happens with 'Save File Set', while I could use the 'Save As...' command.

Hi Martin,

It seems it's just you, me and Don testing this utility out as I've not seen any input from anyone else for some time. Happily we seemed to be taking different paths in testing so it's sorted out the various problems and now they're declining we're both finding the same ones.

Colin

[gadgets]

EDIT: Forget the question. I just found the problem. Don

Gents, do either of you recall the name of the file to which you were trying to save. (Please tell me it did not start with "flightplans".)
Don

[colin_d]

Hi Don,

Being given an option to name the file set I would have had to think up something comprehensive which wouldn't have started with 'Flightplans'. It might have been AirBerlin_set or something similar as I now have a vague recollection of putting something like that in.

Colin

[gadgets]

Thanks. The problem I found only arises when you save a file, "Reload" it and save again. This need not have occurred in the same session. Hopefully, it's the one you were experiencing - cause there's nothing else suspicious in that area.

Don

Re your second-last message - and a fine job we're doing, too.;)

[JohnG]

Hi, mind if I join in?

OK, being a big bang person, I started by trying to load my biggest traffic file first - over 200 meg of GA traffic generated by another AI tool, also still in pre release. While loading, V0.66 threw up at me a number of airports that it said weren't actually in Flight Sim, so I aborted loading, restarted, and decided to reimport FSX airports. It went through a collection process (giving me more "bings" than a San Fran trolley car, and finally presented me with a list of some 24095 airports, but with the "Save AirportList.dat" button greyed out. From this, do I imply (it's STILL binging at me, BTW) that the tool has actually saved what I've just retrieved? How do I know?

It's annoying - I've ACTUALLY CLOSED IT DOWN, and it is still Binging at me! Help!

OK, next question - as I never managed to load all those flight plans, is there some way, once loaded, to easily identify all those lines with "missing airports"? Because I sure can't remember them, and I really don't want to have to stop the process each rime it recognises one!

I really haven't gotten very far into the tool yet, but it is certainly something the hobby actually needs.

BTW, does it have the ability to load a FS9 airport, correct the days, etc., and generate an FSX .bgl file? I hope so - the tool I am using currently is quite good, but command line based, and single purposed.

[JohnG]

OK, second set of problems / suggestions / opportunity for improvements.

1. Each time I open the tool it bings at me and tells me the time zone I have selected. OK, if I haven't selected a time zone, it's probably a good thing, but as I already have, and it's there for me to see, subsequent stoppages to tell me what it is are more of an annoyance than a help.

OK, I'm testing and writing at the same time.

See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.OverflowException: Arithmetic operation resulted in an overflow.
at WindowsApplication1.FlightPlanner.UTCToLocalTime(S tring strTime, String strAP, Int32 nRepeat)
at WindowsApplication1.Arr_Dep.lbAirports_SelectedInd exChanged(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ListBox.OnSelectedIndexChange d(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ListBox.WmReflectCommand(Mess age& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ListBox.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.O nMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.W ndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
AI Flight Planner
Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0
CodeBase: file:///D:/Program%20Files/Microsoft%20Games/Tools/AI%20Flight%20Planner%20v066/AI%20Flight%20Planner.exe
----------------------------------------
Microsoft.VisualBasic
Assembly Version: 8.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 8.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Microsoft.VisualBasic/8.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Runtime.Remoting
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Runtime.Remoting/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Runtime.Remoting.dll
----------------------------------------
Accessibility
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Accessibility/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Accessibility.dll
----------------------------------------
AIFPC_DLL
Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0
CodeBase: file:///D:/Program%20Files/Microsoft%20Games/Tools/AI%20Flight%20Planner%20v066/AIFPC_DLL.DLL
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.

Has just popped up on me (see attached screenie)

[gadgets]

Colin, Martin, all the issues you reported last night have been fixed, except one. The exception is the issue re leg list items not lining up. To fix that, I've got to totally rework the Leg list logic. I won't have that done until tomorrow.

John, welcome aboard. I don't know what the "bings" are. I don't get any on my machine. What OS are you using? Was the FSX base folder properly identifed by the system? If the bings are about 1/2 second apart, it may have something to do with the progress bar which is updated at that frequency. If its not absolutely regular at that frequency, then the "bings" are being generated by Windows. The only intentional beep should be on completion. The "Save AirportList.dat" button is supposed to be disabled until the airports have been corrected, which never occured because you aborted.
OK, next question - as I never managed to load all those flight plans, is there some way, once loaded, to easily identify all those lines with "missing airports"? Because I sure can't remember them, and I really don't want to have to stop the process each rime it recognises one!Upon completion of loading, a message identifying all the missing airports is given.
BTW, does it have the ability to load a FS9 airport, correct the days, etc., and generate an FSX .bgl file? I hope so - the tool I am using currently is quite good, but command line based, and single purposed. Yes. Under user control. It's described in the user manual.
1. Each time I open the tool it bings at me and tells me the time zone I have selected. OK, if I haven't selected a time zone, it's probably a good thing, but as I already have, and it's there for me to see, subsequent stoppages to tell me what it is are more of an annoyance than a help.Easy to turn it off. What say the rest of you?


Re the time conversion exception, I'll track it down and have a fix in tomorrow's update.

Until tomorrow ...
Don

[JohnG]

I don't know what the "bings" are.

They are the standard Windows "Default beep" sound.

What OS are you using?

Windows Vistas Ultimate SP1

Was the FSX base folder properly identifed by the system?

Don't know quite what you mean by that, but if you are asking was it installed using the normal install method, and is it identified automatically by other tools, then yes, it was installed correctly.

If the bings are about 1/2 second apart

No they weren't - they were irregularly spaced, and I think that there was probably a process from the tool still running after I had chopped the main process, because when I went back to try again, it told me that the traffic file I was trtying to load was in use by another application.

The "Save AirportList.dat" button is supposed to be disabled until the airports have been corrected, which never occured because you aborted.

I ran the "collect airports through to what I though was completion, but it was greyed out. I have no idea which set of airports you have loaded as default (FS9? FSX? Both?) - I was just trying to make sure that I had the current set loaded before I started reloading flight plans.

Upon completion of loading, a message identifying all the missing airports is given.

After I reloaded the flight plans, I reached what I thought was the end, but no message was forthcoming.


OK, some more opportunities. The tool itself does not appear to generate any statistics. After I loaded the flight plans, it did not tell me how many I had loaded, how many airports I had used, or any of the other stuff which is useful to the developer. Most seriously, I have yet to find the key that tells me which airport facilities I have overloaded (in FSX), and a way to "smooth" out the use of those particular airports. Without such a tool, I would expect users to run into compiler errors as (I understand) FSX won't let you overload the parking spaces at an airport. The time slots and parking spaces that are overloaded are very important to FSX, BTW.

[gadgets]

The problem that John found is one I introduced in 0.67. It probably only affects daily flight plans. So, don't waste your time in that area. It will be fixed tomorrow. Weekly stuff seems OK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgets
I don't know what the "bings" are.

They are the standard Windows "Default beep" sound.I meant I had no idea what was causing them.
Windows Vistas Ultimate SP1I'm still using XP. Anyone else with Vista having similar problems?
Quote:
Was the FSX base folder properly identifed by the system?

Don't know quite what you mean by that, but if you are asking was it installed using the normal install method, and is it identified automatically by other tools, then yes, it was installed correctly.
At the top of the "collect airports" dialog are a couple of text boxes that display what AI Flight Planner thinks are the base folders for FS9 and FSX.
I have no idea which set of airports you have loaded as default (FS9? FSX? Both?) The tool ships with all the stock FS9 and FSX airports in AirportList.dat.
Quote:
Upon completion of loading, a message identifying all the missing airports is given.

After I reloaded the flight plans, I reached what I thought was the end, but no message was forthcoming.I'm confused. You note below says you aborted the load process. Would you mind trying again with a smaller file to see whether I'm hitting a stop somwhere.
FSX won't let you overload the parking spaces at an airport. The time slots and parking spaces that are overloaded are very important to FSX, BTW. I haven't given much thought to statistics. Pehaps you could be a little more explicit as to what statistics you think would be worthwhile - recognizing that AI Flight Planner doesn't analyse parking arrangements. It's somewhat simple-minded in that regard. If the user says to run a flight, that's what it does. Re your comment, I think you're referring to FSX TrafficToolbox, which uses a different compiler and has it's own set of problems.

More tomorrow.
Don

[JohnG]

Thanks, Don,
I have rebooted, and run the "open traffic bgl" again, and alowed it to run to completion. I do get a list of missing airports, but a couple of points:
* It is a big set of traffic plans, and in that it is not unique, and took over an hour to complete. During that time, I had to nurse maid it, because there were 49 stoppages for unknown airports. My thought is that on the first "keep going" stoppage, a checkbox similar to the Windows "treat every one like this in future on this run" would make life a lot easier, and allow the user to say, ignore them, and then go away, make a cup of tea, read a book, etc.
* SOME at least of the airports that are shown as 'not found" are actually in the standard FSX. Examples that were shown such but actually exist are 02MI, KFKS and ZYYJ. A whole series that doesn't exist (but were generated by the other tool) were also identified, which is good.
* I think it's a good thing to allow the user to overload an airport should they desire to do so. However, given that people will, and will want to know just how overloaded an airport is, a stat count, similar to that in AITM, which showd gate occupancy by time period would be useful, although by the scope of the necessary work, well down the track, I should have thought (unless you can leverage off something that the SDK tools already do). This is quite an important part of flight planning, BTW.
* I have checked those few in your FSX .dat file, and can confirm that 02MI (Greenville, Michigan), and KFKS, Frankfort, Michigan, are not included, although they are listed in FSX. There are others, but identifying two says that the data is incomplete. ZYYJ, on the other hand, is in the .dat file. It is Yanji, in China, and I suspect that the tool isn't picking that up because it is the absolute last record in the file. Perhaps that has something to do with it?
* It appears that you only have one chance to do anything about the missing airports, and that is to either add them, or ignore them, in toto. This isn't sufficient, as many times you will want to add some, and not others,. In light of that, the message is too ephemeral. There needs to be some way of either retrieving the list easily during run time, or dealing with these renegades individually. it would help, as well, if you threw out the list of missing airports again when the traffic file is reloaded. I've just checked - it doesn't!
* I supplied the path for FSX in Collect Airport Data, on the first occasion that I tried to use it, but it doesn't appear to keep it between sessions. Using the registry entries, it is certainly possible for the programmer to automatically retrieve this information, rather than asking for it each time. Many FS9 and FSX tools already do that.
* Now, here's an interesting tid bit. I tried to collect airports from FSX, and the tool did so, but the resultant list does not include either of the two recalcitrants - 02ML or KFKS!

Looking into a list of US airports I downloaded aeons ago, it shows:

UNITED STATES : MICHIGAN
FRANKFORT / Frankfort Dow Meml KFKS
Position: N44 37.51318 W086 12.04850 Elevation: 632’; MagneticVariation: 01.00
Runways:
15: Length 4051’, Width 75’, ASPHALT, true 139.25°; PAPI4, 3°
33: Length 4051’, Width 75’, ASPHALT, true 319.25°; PAPI4, 3°
Approaches:
15 RNAV; Fix: TERMINAL_WAYPOINT ZIVKU
15 GPS; Fix: TERMINAL_WAYPOINT ZIVKU
33 RNAV; Fix: TERMINAL_WAYPOINT WECQO
33 GPS; Fix: TERMINAL_WAYPOINT WECQO
FS X Airports in the United States
1320
File: APX25160

and

UNITED STATES : MICHIGAN
GREENVILLE / Fairplains Airpark 02MI
Position: N43 9.42534 W085 8.91099 Elevation: 850’; MagneticVariation: 00.00
Runways:
09: Length 2000’, Width 100’, GRASS, true 90°
27: Length 2000’, Width 100’, GRASS, true 270°
File: APX25160

OK, I've done a little more research - not everything, but enough, I hope.

The two airports above are in APX25160. I've done a random check of others in that file, and it appears that none of them are collected, and that suggests to me that APX21560 at least is being missed during the airport collect phase.

BTW, if you want a copy of the reference I'm using, it's from AVSIM, and the file name is fsxairportsusa.zip. There's one for each region, if you need something to check back against.

Enough from me - back to you, for the time being.

[gsnde]

Thanks, guys. Looks like were making progress. I'm going to be out for much of the day so may not get these all fixed. But, I'll try to release fixes for any critical errors tonight.

Martin, why do you think this is invalid? All legs are now checked at time of FP save.

I'll respond to other commnets later.

Don

Finally I see what you are doing, Don :)

I have now very carefully analyzed each step of what you are doing when leg data is entered and I finally understand what is happening.

In case there are others as slow as me I will lay it out:


Start a flight plan, go from EDTG to ETAR (other settings are irrelevant)
add a second leg to go to LSFB => at this moment the departure airport of the first leg, EDTG is changed to LFSB
now if I add a third leg going to ETSF, the departure airport of the first leg will be changed to ETSF
==> the tartget airport of the last leg will alway become the departure airport of the first leg


Okay... I think it took me so long to understand that concept because in a way it is messing with my intentions. You don't wait until I make an error and correct it afterwards, but you are assuming constantly I am making an error and add a corrective measure.

Mind you, Don, I am not saying this is bad, because it isn't. If the user fails to follow the rule of making a circuit trip, you will correct it.

Verdict: I like this :D

[gsnde]

About the bings:

Microsoft's MsgBox component is associated with a bing. In one program of mine I was so annoyed by the bings that I wrote a routine which set the sound output to 0 before each Msgbox I was displaying and back to the last value afterwards.

But this was much too much trouble.

The recurring questions about if an airport should be added has been reintroduced. Some time back in this thread we had already reduced that to one question.

[JohnG]

The recurring questions about if an airport should be added has been reintroduced. Some time back in this thread we had already reduced that to one question.

What a GOOD idea!

[gsnde]

Don,

As for the timezone msgbox: I guess that most users will probably never change that setting once it has been configured. So John has a point there.

As for the addition of unknown airports: When I import a bgl with unknown airports and confirm that they should be loaded, at the end I get to an empty mask where I am supposed to fill in the missing airports, right?

But at this moment I don't know what I should add. The information ICAO, position and altitude you decompile and store them in the work folder during the session. It might be a good idea (actually it is John's idea from some posts above) to keep all unknown airports in a accumulating text file, containing the ICAO, the position and the altitude. This file you should make editable in a way so that you can scroll through the incomplete airport list and add the missing pieces. As soon as a record is completed and saved, it goes out of the incomplete airport list and into the main airport list.

Can you see what I mean?

[gsnde]

Just found another small one: if you decompile a traffic bgl and click on a flight plan, the activity level is filled with the number and the percentage sign. If you then start to edit the leg, you get the message that only numbers are allowed in that field. So the percentage sign should stay out.

I see what is happening: in the flight plan the level is set to 30%. You take the last to characters: 0%. I noticed this after I removed the percentage sign and was then informed that the number has to be between 1 and 99 :)

[gsnde]

Don,

Am I correct to assume that if a leg has the same airport for departure and arrival this is only valid for TNG operations? If so, maybe you can add the TNG flag automatically?

[JohnG]

it is John's idea from some posts above) to keep all unknown airports in a accumulating text file, containing the ICAO, the position and the altitude.

I agree that it should be kept as a text file, but as for position and altitude - if it's an unknown airport, I'd have thought that all that the tool will know about it is it's ICAO code?

[gsnde]

John,

decompile a BGL and have a look in your work subfolder below the traffic tool. There you will find a file name "Airports_<name of the bgl file>.txt".

Have a look at that for an airport that was not found.

[gsnde]

Don,

Just an idea which might help getting this lindworm of a thread under control again. Do you think it would help to break it apart in chunks related to each released version?

[JohnG]

I think that the BEST way to handle testing is to use a mechanism where you can log faults and suggestions, and track them one at a time. You don't overlook anything, and each issue is positively closed as it is resolved and tested.

Unfortunately, this type of forum doesn't lend itself to this type of tracking, especially in a pre-release piece of software.

Once the initial release has been made, you can log ideas, etc, and track them, but this is still in brainstorming sessions, and tracking is near impossible, as items go from ideas, to suggestions, to requirements, are modified as each person gives input, is coded, and reworked when it is found to be sub-optimal.

Short of developing a piece of on line software to act as a defect / suggestion log, the next best alternative is messy, at best, and even more disastrous at worst.

[gadgets]

Good morning (or afternoon or evening). You guys certainly have been busy.
The two airports above are in APX25160. I've done a random check of others in that file, and it appears that none of them are collected, and that suggests to me that APX21560 at least is being missed during the airport collect phase.Thanks for following this through, John. There's probably a simple reason that those few aren't being collected.
My thought is that on the first "keep going" stoppage, a checkbox similar to the Windows "treat every one like this in future on this run" would make life a lot easier, and allow the user to say, ignore them, and then go away, make a cup of tea, read a book, etc.Consider it done.
It appears that you only have one chance to do anything about the missing airports, and that is to either add them, or ignore them, in toto. No. You can fix it when the flight plan is in the editor, or at any time using the Edit/Add Airport menu item.
I supplied the path for FSX in Collect Airport Data, on the first occasion that I tried to use it, but it doesn't appear to keep it between sessions. Using the registry entries, it is certainly possible for the programmer to automatically retrieve this information, rather than asking for it each time. Many FS9 and FSX tools already do that.And so will AI Flight Planner - in the next release.
It is a big set of traffic plans, and in that it is not unique, and took over an hour to complete. I think it's a good thing to allow the user to overload an airport should they desire to do so. However, given that people will, and will want to know just how overloaded an airport is, a stat count, similar to that in AITM, which showd gate occupancy by time period would be useful, although by the scope of the necessary work, well down the track, I should have thought (unless you can leverage off something that the SDK tools already do). This is quite an important part of flight planning, BTW. I want to revisit the time-consuming processes. But, first, I want to get everything working and make the initial release to get some user feedback. I understand the need for useful statistics, but it involves a significant amount of additional work. So, I think I'll defer any action on statistics to the "second round" also.
Finally I see what you are doing, Don And, yesterday, I reworked that area to keep the starts-at airport if you enter it:D
The recurring questions about if an airport should be added has been reintroduced. Some time back in this thread we had already reduced that to one question. The last time this came up, we were (at least I was) referring to repeated reports for the same airport. That's what I fixed. John is asking for the ability to suppress further reports for all airports.
As for the timezone msgbox: I guess that most users will probably never change that setting once it has been configured. So John has a point there.I was getting a little annoyed with it too. Its gone!
As for the addition of unknown airports: When I import a bgl with unknown airports and confirm that they should be loaded, at the end I get to an empty mask where I am supposed to fill in the missing airports, right?Yes, if you answer "yes".
It might be a good idea (actually it is John's idea from some posts above) to keep all unknown airports in a accumulating text file, containing the ICAO, the position and the altitude. Yes, that is a good idea. I already have the capabilty to extract airport information from a TTools airport file. I just need to run it (Well, there's a little more to it than that, but is should be possible.)
Am I correct to assume that if a leg has the same airport for departure and arrival this is only valid for TNG operations? If so, maybe you can add the TNG flag automatically? the same departure and destination airport triggers an error unless TNG operation is specified. Since TNG is an exception,I'd like to leave it that way.
Just an idea which might help getting this lindworm of a thread under control again. Do you think it would help to break it apart in chunks related to each released version? We're almost through this phase (I hope). As John suggests, lets keep it to a single thread until release. It's no more work for me and (aside from statistics and ral-time improvements) these aren't enduring topics.

I still hope to get another release out today, but I doubt that everything mentioned i this post will get done.

Have a good one,
Don

[JohnG]

I'm off to bed...:yikes: (no yawn or snore, unfortunately)

[gadgets]

Ta-da!!! 0.67 is here. (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v067.zip)

Much to my surprise, I was able to do everything we talked about, save for statistics, of course. John, that was a good tip you gave me re the Yangi airport. I was looking at the end-of-file status after reading the last line but before using it. Re some of the missing airports, that was due to bglAnalyse raising an error flag regarding some special runway record. Don't know how many other airports were suppressed by this situation, but at least KFKS and 02MI are back (as well as the others in the same file). Also, your FS9 and FSX base folder entries are now preserved and you won't be annoyed any longer by the time zone announcement.

Colin, the columns in the Leg List should now be OK. Believe it or not, that was the most difficult of the lot to fix.

Martin, if you tell the system a flight starts in Timbucktoo, it will believe you and not forget. And, if your last leg terminates anywhere else, it wil object. ;)

Missing airport and aircraft messages may now be suppressed entirely (after the first one ). As well, if there are missing airports and you want to put them in AirportList.dat, the airport editor will be opened and the missing ones will be read from the TTools (or decompiled) airports file. You even have the ability to add other information such as airport, city and country names in the process.

Not bad for a day's work, if I do say so for myself! That being said, I made a lot of changes (mostly little ones) in a lot of places. Everything still seems to work, but I'll be amazed if I didn't break something.

Have a great weekend,
Don

[JohnG]

Excellent work, Don. We find 'em, you fix 'em!

[gsnde]

Don,

Like always it will receive a good test ride.

There is something funny about me recognizing (and approving) a concept of yours in the last second before it is gone. ;)

Enjoy your weekend!

[gadgets]

Like I said, guys, I'd have been mazed if I didn't break something with all those changes.
(I'm not amazed!). An exception is thrown when you try to start a new leg, including when you start a new FP. I'll have 0.68 out shortly.

Don

[gadgets]

Ok. It's fixed. Beta 0.68 here (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v068.zip).

Sorry for the screwup,
Don

[gadgets]

Since I haven't heard from anyone today, I assume you've all taken the day off. That's probably just as well (and, if you're getting as tired of this as me, you probably needed it).:p

But I didn't take the day off; I've been busy having the system calculate arrival times when the user didn't specify same, cleaning up a few 'fringe" areas and fixing a couple of bugs. The result is Version 0.69 and its available here (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v069.zip).

Have fun,
Don

[Angelus1971]

Found one for you.

If you type a value into the "Find Flight Plans Value" field and dont select anything for the "Field" then an Unhandled exception occurs.

Maybe it would be good to have the first field in the drop down as the default choice?

[JohnG]

No, I haven't taken the day off - I've spent most of it testing aspects of ADE! I'll try to get back to your tool tomorrow.:o

[gsnde]

Will be tonight before I get to testing this version, Don :)

[gadgets]

Thanks for checking in, guys.

Angelus1971, a fix will be available in the next release. Consistent with the other controls, I've disabled the Find/Find Next buttons until the Value field has been entered. Thanks for pointing out the probem.

Don

[gadgets]

Found another little problem that may have interrupted your testing. When arrival and departure times were entered in local time, if this resulted in an after-midnight arrival when converted to UTC, an error was declared.

This and the FP look-up exception have been fixed in version 0.70 (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner 070.zip)

Don

[JohnG]

I loaded a set of existing flight plans, to do some work on them.

There are a couple of tools that are missing, that would make this software a lot more usable.

I realise that so far, you've concentrated on developing new flight plans, and creating traffic files as your main priority, but take the scenario that I have.

For a start,
I am using traffic files made by WOAI, and without going back and manually extracting all the (FS9) flight plans, I have no easy access to the text information contained in them


With your tool, I can decompile and see the aircraft that a particular record uses, and can see the list of aircraft that are used by the flight plans
I cannot (I don't think) easily see the actual flight plans - there doesn't appear to be a pane of any sort that allows me to view them, in FS9 or FSX source format
I suppose that I could compile them using the FS9 compiler, leave the tool, decompile using TTools, and then view the flightplans, either in AIPC or excel, or even note tab, but to me that appears to be a backwards way of looking at them


What I'm suggesting is that as well as creating flight plans, we need a tool to maintain them as well.

Oh, and what I was trying to do was find the airplanes used for specific registration numbers, which are currently showing up all white in FSX.

A Very Nice To Have (VNTH) would be the ability, when researching airports that don't exist, to be able to change them in the flight plans into the code that they should be. I have references to an airport that I KNOW should be a different code (my flight plan is showing VTBS, but the location given in the tool is identical to VTBD, and I'd like to change, in the screen where I am asked if I want to add VBTS (which doesn't exist, BTW), all references in the flight plan to VBTD (as an example).

[gadgets]

G'day, John.
I am using traffic files made by WOAI, and without going back and manually extracting all the (FS9) flight plans, I have no easy access to the text information contained in themThere are three ways to get at the flight plan text information. The Flight Plan List is an exact copy of the decompiled flight plan file. You may edit individual flight plans in plain text format using the built-in text editor. And finally, after decompiling the underlying TTools-format .txt files are in the Work subdirectory under the name of the traffic file and may be accessed with a standard text editor.
I cannot (I don't think) easily see the actual flight plans - there doesn't appear to be a pane of any sort that allows me to view them, in FS9 or FSX source format Further to the previous response, by "FS9 or FSX source format", I assume you mean day-encoding. The flight plans in the Flight Plan List may be displayed in either format using the Change Day Code button.
I suppose that I could compile them using the FS9 compiler, leave the tool, decompile using TTools, and then view the flightplans, either in AIPC or excel, or even note tab, but to me that appears to be a backwards way of looking at them My response to the first item should cover this also. But, if it doesn't, please be a little more specific about what it is you want to see.
Oh, and what I was trying to do was find the airplanes used for specific registration numbers, which are currently showing up all white in FSX.Were you successful, or are you suggesting the FP look-up function should be expanded to also cover the Aircraft List (easily done)
A Very Nice To Have (VNTH) would be the ability, when researching airports that don't exist, to be able to change them in the flight plans into the code that they should be. I could extend the the functionality of the FP look-up function by including a replace/replace all capability. In the meantime, you should be able to do what you want to easily by loading the Work folder-resident flight plan file into Notepad, Replace ALL and reload using the AIFP Reload menu function. (Not very elegant, but it'll work.)

Have a great day,
Don

[gadgets]

I'm pleased to report that AI Flight Planner now supports a Replace/Replace All function for the Flight Plan List on a per field basis. The feature doesn't extend to the Aircraft List since that list only holds three fields and it may be sorted on two of them. (I doubt many will need to search the Aircraft List for a certain cruising speed.:cool:)

Don

[JohnG]

v0.70: OK, you're saving the working files in FS9 format. Yes?

There is a strong possibility that users are going to get themselves horribly mixed up with this - not knowing whether they are dealing with FS9 or FSX flight plans, and not being sure whether they have applied the "day change", or not. There needs to be some sort of flag (saved in a comments field, perhaps, in the flightplan file?) to indicate that this FS9 style flightplan has actually been changed to FSX standard.

Question: Does this mean that you are changing flightplans from FS9 FORMAT to FSX FORMAT just prior to compiling them? Or are you just using the same compiler for both types of flightplan?

This is important, as I know from bitter experience that while a flight plan generated for FS9 will work fine in FSX, there is a very severe side effrect, in that any traffic bgl that has actually been compiled using the FSX compiler will no longer show in the sim if there are FS9 traffic bgl's loaded, and so, compiling for FSX using the FS9 traffic compiler is not recommended, indeed, it will be enough to stop many FSXers from using it, and will cause a rash of problem reports from those who do, once they realise that all their other FSX traffic (especailly boat traffic) has gone missing.

[gsnde]

John,

The tool only produces flight plans according to the FS9 syntax, not for FSX.

[gsnde]

Getting closer and closer, Don :)

There is a bug in the departure checking code. If I am on a weekly flight plan, starting Sunday at 09:00, it won't allow me to start Monday at 05:00 for the second leg (and so on).

Error message is "Leg 2 is scheduled to depart before arrival time.." when trying to 'Add FP To List'. (Mind the two points at the end of the message ;))

[gsnde]

Mmmh, this is not what is supposed to happen, right ?

I start a new flight plan with a 24h repeat period.

I depart at 10:00 from EDTG to ETAR, which will have me there at 10:27.

Now I make a voluntary error. I add the second (return) leg back to EDTG at 07:00.

When I click on 'Add Leg' this happens:


The second leg is sorted as first entry, shifting the first leg on place two
The first leg now reads: go from EDTG to EDTG, starting at 07:00 and arriving there at 07:27
The second leg now reads: go from EDTG to ETAR, starting at 10:00 and arriving there at 10:27 (so it is unchanged)


I would expect that I see an error message telling me that the departure time is before the arrival time (the message I have seen one post above, although there I did not expect it :p).

[gsnde]

A very harmless one:

If I start a flight plan from scratch and use the '?' in the departure airport, I get a error message that 'The starting airport must be specified for distance, duration and ETA to be calculated'.

The airport list is most helpful, Don. It would be ultimate if you can manage to have a search function within. Either a text box and a search button, or even better an active filter while you type which just shows the results still valid.

An alternative solution would be something like this: if you type %searchsting% in the airport field, leaving the field will result in a list presenting the airports that fit.

I think this is more than just a nicety. If you know the airport name but e.g. not in which US state it is located it could be a task to find the right ICAO.

[gsnde]

Very cool the new feature how unknown airports can be added, Don :)

Just one thing: it does not start at the first unknown airport but with a blank, which did confuse me. The first airport was loaded after clicking on 'Get Next Airport'.

The next thing I did was to click on 'Get Next Airport' some times without adding anything to see what is in the list. I did not know that there was no way back as soon as you click on 'Get Next Airport'. So maybe the ability to scroll back and forth in the list combined with a Save button would be better?

[gadgets]

v0.70: OK, you're saving the working files in FS9 format. Yes?The tool only produces flight plans according to the FS9 syntax, not for FSX. I need some guidance here. It is my understanding that the only difference between FS9 and FSX format is the dey encoding scheme, i.e., FS9 uses 0 for Sunday, FSX uses 0 for Monday. Otherwise they are identical. If this is not correct, would one of you please "point me in the right direction".

Currenty, the flight plan is saved in whichever format the user has selected at save time. Unfortunately, there's no provision in the TTools format for indicating which one. So, as explained in the manual, TTools assumes FS9 and, if that's wrong, it depends on the user to select otherwise. But, as I was writing this, I had an idea. When a traffic file is decompiled, AIFPC inserts a comment line if the file is in FSX format. I could do the same. That would limit the uncertainty to files that had never been saved by AI Flight Planner. That will be in the next release.
When I click on 'Add Leg' this happens:

The second leg is sorted as first entry, shifting the first leg on place two
The first leg now reads: go from EDTG to EDTG, starting at 07:00 and arriving there at 07:27
The second leg now reads: go from EDTG to ETAR, starting at 10:00 and arriving there at 10:27 (so it is unchanged)

I would expect that I see an error message telling me that the departure time is before the arrival time.This is exactly what I intended should happen. You've told the system the flight plan starts at EDTG. There is no inter-leg checking until you attempt to save. (I elected to defer such checking until the flight plan is complete to avoid a lot of error messages.) But, in the unconsolidated mode, if I turn off sorting, such errors could be caught - and would leave you completely in control, Martin. Since it's easy to do let me give it a try to see if it works for you.

If I start a flight plan from scratch and use the '?' in the departure airport, I get a error message that 'The starting airport must be specified for distance, duration and ETA to be calculated'. This is just an oversight. When I added the originating airport logic last week, I forgot to include the check for "?".

Just one thing: it does not start at the first unknown airport but with a blank, which did confuse me. The first airport was loaded after clicking on 'Get Next Airport'.The delay is intentional - to allow you to make other selections such as custom vs main airport list. Because of the sequence in which the airport editor does things, to change it may require a major re-write.

So maybe the ability to scroll back and forth in the list combined with a Save button would be better? If you want to re-examine a previously saved airport, you can (should be able to) just enter it's ICAO code and click Open - even if you haven't processed all the missing airports. But, of course, if you just want to see what's in the list, that's another matter. Let me think about it.
It would be ultimate if you can manage to have a search function within. Either a text box and a search button, or even better an active filter while you type which just shows the results still valid.

An alternative solution would be something like this: if you type %searchsting% in the airport field, leaving the field will result in a list presenting the airports that fit.
An active filter (if I understand what you're suggesting) likely would not be helpful. The first character entered could generate a list of potentially 1000 entries or more. Your alternate suggestion seems more promising, perhaps adding the ability to specify city (or partial city name) instead. But, either way, the associated effort isn't trivial. My initial reaction is to leave this for "version 2".

I'll try to get all this into another release tonight. Fortunately, it's all quite isolated so you should only have to check the reworked areas.

More tonight,
Don

[Golf-HotelDelta]

I need some guidance here. It is my understanding that the only difference between FS9 and FSX format is the dey encoding scheme, i.e., FS9 uses 0 for Sunday, FSX uses 0 for Monday. Otherwise they are identical. If this is not correct, would one of you please "point me in the right direction".
I'm afraid not Don, the bgl format is completely different and you can't mix the two, only AI from one of them will appear.

I don't know the details, see Peter van der Veen's AIFPC.

George

[gadgets]

I'm afraid not Don, the bgl format is completely different and you can't mix the two, only AI from one of them will appear.Yes, I know. It's differences at the source code level I'm interested in. I don't think there's any confusion with compiled files. You must select the target version of MSFS when compiling and AIFPC indicates in the de-compiled flight plan file whether or not FSX day encoding is used.

Don

[Golf-HotelDelta]

Yes, I know. It's differences at the source code level I'm interested in.

There are also differences at the source code level, TrafficDatabaseBuilder requires that there are more parking spaces than there are flights into the airport.

George

[gadgets]

TrafficDatabaseBuilder requires that there are more parking spaces than there are flights into the airport.
I think this is the same point John brought up a while ago. TDB won't schedule a flight unless its database indicates there's sufficient parking - even if the user knows there is. (TDB appears to reserve one or more large parking spots for potential use by (presumably) the user aircraft.) It also forces flights to sometime ridiculous altitudes if its terrain database indicates there are mountains in the area - even if the user knows there's not. (The resolution of the terrain elevation checks is far too coarse, which I've brought to MS' attantion.) AI Flight Planner on the other and does what the user directs - the onus being on the user establish appropriate parking and altitude. If the user tells AI Flight Planner to schedule more AI than parking can accommodate, the only effect is that the AI disappears during rollout.

I never intended AI Flight Planner to be a replacement for TDB but, rather, a user-responsive alternative.:cool:

Don

[jvile]

Don

Sorry for the delay but as you know ADE takes up most my time. I have been following the test phase and spent some time writting some simple FS9 type FP's.

I notice and it appears the @ symbol is hardcoded for arrival time. No matter what I do it always is placed back into the arrival time. Is this by design or did I miss the ability to remove it before compiling.

[gadgets]

Version 0.71 here. (http://members.shaw.ca/CYYJ2007-2/AI Flight Planner v071.zip).

When I click on 'Add Leg' this happens:

The second leg is sorted as first entry, shifting the first leg on place two
The first leg now reads: go from EDTG to EDTG, starting at 07:00 and arriving there at 07:27
The second leg now reads: go from EDTG to ETAR, starting at 10:00 and arriving there at 10:27 (so it is unchanged)

I would expect that I see an error message telling me that the departure time is before the arrival time. Martin, I've reworked the Leg List sequencing as I think you suggest. In the non-consolidated mode, legs will be placed where the user wants them - but a departure time earlier than the previous arrival or an arrival time later than the following departure wil not be allowed. This means the leg list is always valid. One thing Id like you to consider is whether the second issue, i.e., arrival after following leg departure time, should be acceptable but with a warning message. Otherwise, flight times might only be able to be adjusted from the bottom up if departure times are delayed significantly. In the consolidated mode, the legs continue to be sorted by departure time.

What I'm suggesting is that as well as creating flight plans, we need a tool to maintain them as well.John, you may now find/find next/replace/replace all for every field in the flight plan list. What else do you think is essential for maintebnance

John, Martin, you've both expressed concern about FS9 vs FSX formatting. Frankly, I didn't appreciate your concern until earlier today, because I thought I had "covered all the bases". But, this afternoon, I noticed that the editor did not react to day-encoding changes. So that's fixed. As well, I place a comment line at the top of every flight plan file when its saved noting the day-encoding scheme, and I now set the radio buttons accordingly when a previously-saved file or decompiled file is loaded. (I use a similar scheme to AIFPC.) If a flight plan file without such a comment line is loaded, I warn the user and and ask that the proper radio button be set. This warning will only be issued for files that have not been saved by AI Flight Planner. So now, I think I really have "covered all the bases".

Finally, Colin, some time ago you expressed a concern about potential confusion regarding legs in the Leg List not necessarily being in the same sequence as in the UTC-based Flight Plan List. (Actually, the sequence should be identical; it's just that they may have differennt first legs.) That being said, I think you also agree that sequencing the legs from 0000 -> 2359 (local) is the right thing to do. I've added an extra lable on the control panel pointing out that editor/leg list times are local.

Martin. I didn't have a chance to to do anything about the airport update function you suggested. I've saved that for tomorrow.

Don

[gadgets]

Jim, my understanding is that "@" indicates a user-specificed arrival time. Accordingly, if you enter an arrival time (I consider using the Use ETA button as user-specified), I add the "@" automatically. If you leave the arrival time field blank, the system will compute an arrival time when the FP is saved (same algorithm as TTools, i.e., distance/specified cruising speed +15 minutes). If departure time is changed and the arrival time is not preceded by "@", the arrival time field will be cleared to prompt recalculation at save time.

While on the topic of arrival time, let me ask you the same question as I asked Reggie. Knowing you have reservations about the arrival times calculated by TTools (and hence, AI Flight Planner), would you care to suggest a better algorithm?

Don

[JohnG]

So, Don, do I understand from what you've said that you are now creating FSX standard traffic bgl files (as created by TrafficDatabseBuilder) for users of FSX?

[JohnG]

John,
Yes, as far as I know. What wasn't happening until today was the the FSX days weren't being reflected in the editor.

Don

Thanks, Don.
I've tested, and by the use of circumstantial evidence (the ships are still there after I've compiled an airline that operates in the area) have confirmed that the FSX traffic .bgls certainly aren't interfering with the FSX traffic bgls compiled by MS. That is good, and a positive step.

Now, a couple of points on the compilation steps.

First, Compile Flight Set didn't spring out as compiling a Traffic file. Suggest renaming, and if you've got space, putting a button onto the form, as well as having it in a menu.

Second, if I've loaded a set of input files, it's almost a given that, for traceability, I will want to name the output traffic bgl using the same naming convention. I might want to change it, but at least pre-populating the name with the name of the file set I opened looks like a good idea to me.

Third, there was absolutely no indication that it had completed the compilation successfully. Even the most confident AI builder would like to see something, even fleetingly short, that would say "yes, it actually compiled OK", although perhaps not in those words.

Fourth, and this is another of those "shouldn't have to ask" things - if the flight plans have been day modded to FSX, or if they are flagged as FS9, the compiler should be able to at least preset that selection radio button for the user.

Fifth, if you can achieve all this, then perhaps the button on the main form (# Firstly) could do an automatic compilation, without asking any questions, allowing the user to intervene in naming etc by using the menu entry point.

[gsnde]

I have both TTDB and Ttool FP's coexisting and can explain that if needed.

Even if it might be a bit off-topic for Don's program right now, there is hardly any better place to explain this, Jim. Please do so.

As well, I place a comment line at the top of every flight plan file when its saved noting the day-encoding scheme, and I now set the radio buttons accordingly when a previously-saved file or decompiled file is loaded.

This is good :) What can be done, should not be left to the user.

One thing Id like you to consider is whether the second issue, i.e., arrival after following leg departure time, should be acceptable but with a warning message. Otherwise, flight times might only be able to be adjusted from the bottom up if departure times are delayed significantly.

Yes, a warning in this case makes sense to allow editing. The final error control will kick in when you try to 'Add FP To List'.

Looking forward to the airport lookup functionality :D

[gadgets]

Martin, Jim:
Even if it might be a bit off-topic for Don's program right now, there is hardly any better place to explain this, Jim. Please do so. I agree. But, so it doesn't get lost, I'm going to move it to a separate thread (once I figure out how to).

Martin:
Yes, a warning in this case makes sense to allow editing. The final error control will kick in when you try to 'Add FP To List'.Perhaps both errors should be warnings, so as to give the user as much flexibility as possible. Like you say, if they're not fixed, the FP can't be saved.
John:
First, Compile Flight Set didn't spring out as compiling a Traffic file. Suggest renaming It's now "Compile Traffic .bgl" (similar to decompile). I'd like to save what little real estate is left for non-dupliated functions (or at least until Im forced to enlarge/re-layout te panel).
Second, if I've loaded a set of input files, it's almost a given that, for traceability, I will want to name the output traffic bgl using the same naming convention
That's what's supposed to happen. Don't know why it's stopped working. I'll investigate and fix.
Third, there was absolutely no indication that it had completed the compilation successfully. Even the most confident AI builder would like to see something, even fleetingly short, that would say "yes, it actually compiled OK", although perhaps not in those words.Consider it done.
this is another of those "shouldn't have to ask" things - if if the flight plans have been day modded to FSX, or if they are flagged as FS9, the compiler should be able to at least preset that selection radio button for the user.Now that I've got better control of the day-encoding, I will preset. However, I've still got to ask, because either day-encoding scheme may be used for either MSFS-target version. The compiler does the switching if necessary. This is useful for anyone who wants to use the same set of flightplan file for both FS9 and FSX.
if you can achieve all this, then perhaps the button on the main form (# Firstly) could do an automatic compilation, without asking any questions, In light of the above, the only thing such a user will have to do is click the OK button. Perhaps I'm missing something here, but I would have thought that Compile was a relatively infrequent operation, not something that warrants a dedicated button when no other function in that class (file manipulation) has one. Under what circumstances would a user compile so frequently?

I'll have another release out containing a fix for the "blank arrival time" bug found by Jim, Martin's scrollable missing airport list and John's compile improvements later today.

Have a good one,
Don

[Angelus1971]

The information about the particular leg, flight info, day distance duration etc only updates when you double click on a line in the flight plan list.

If for example you search for a specific airport and it finds it, the info is not updated until you double click the highlighted line.

[gadgets]

Yes. That's intentional so that you may work with items in the Flight Plan List without having to first save the FP in the editor. When you eventualy save the flight plan from the editor, it will (should be) saved in the right place. Have you found something in the user manual to suggest otherwise?

Don

[gadgets]

Version 0.72 (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v072.zip), containing a number of minor fixes as discussed in earlier post. Please see Version History.pdf for details.

Don

[JohnG]

In light of the above, the only thing such a user will have to do is click the OK button. Perhaps I'm missing something here, but I would have thought that Compile was a relatively infrequent operation, not something that warrants a dedicated button when no other function in that class (file manipulation) has one. Under what circumstances would a user compile so frequently?


On the contrary. When developing, say, the flight plans for an airline, there is often quite a frequent need to compile, so that the user can go into FS and check the overall results. It isn't all about flight plans, of course - the matching of plane special colour schemes to particular flights is best checked from FS - it's one thing to do it in several related byt separate files, and an altogether different thing to use the Mk.1 eyeball to make sure you've got it right.

Another aspect of checking is making sure that the textures used are actually on the correct models. It's oh so easy to assign, say, a P & W engine texture to a RR model, and the only real way to test is to go look at the results.

[JohnG]

I tried loading an airline with a wrong airport code in it. In the past, "Airports|Edit/Add Airport" gave me a display of what was known about the airport.

Now I get:

"Unhandled exception has occured in your application. If you click Continue, the application will ignore this error and attempt to continue. If you click Quit, the application will close immediately.

Conversion from string "False" to type 'integer' is not valid.





See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.InvalidCastException: Conversion from string "False" to type 'Integer' is not valid. ---> System.FormatException: Input string was not in a correct format.
at Microsoft.VisualBasic.CompilerServices.Conversions .ParseDouble(String Value, NumberFormatInfo NumberFormat)
at Microsoft.VisualBasic.CompilerServices.Conversions .ToInteger(String Value)
--- End of inner exception stack trace ---
at Microsoft.VisualBasic.CompilerServices.Conversions .ToInteger(String Value)
at Microsoft.VisualBasic.CompilerServices.Conversions .ToInteger(Object Value)
at WindowsApplication1.FlightPlanner.OpenEditAirportL ist(Object nBulk)
at WindowsApplication1.FlightPlanner.mnuAirports_Edit _Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.RaiseEvent(Obje ct key, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripMenuItem.OnClick(Eve ntArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.HandleClick(Eve ntArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.HandleMouseUp(M ouseEventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.FireEventIntera ctive(EventArgs e, ToolStripItemEventType met)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.FireEvent(Event Args e, ToolStripItemEventType met)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStrip.OnMouseUp(MouseEven tArgs mea)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripDropDown.OnMouseUp(M ouseEventArgs mea)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Mes sage& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStrip.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripDropDown.WndProc(Mes sage& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.O nMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.W ndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
AI Flight Planner
Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0
CodeBase: file:///D:/Program%20Files/Microsoft%20Games/Tools/AI%20Flight%20Planner/AI%20Flight%20Planner.exe
----------------------------------------
Microsoft.VisualBasic
Assembly Version: 8.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 8.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Microsoft.VisualBasic/8.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Runtime.Remoting
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Runtime.Remoting/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Runtime.Remoting.dll
----------------------------------------
Accessibility
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Accessibility/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Accessibility.dll
----------------------------------------
AIFPC_DLL
Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0
CodeBase: file:///D:/Program%20Files/Microsoft%20Games/Tools/AI%20Flight%20Planner/AIFPC_DLL.DLL
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.

[jvile]

I have to agree with John.

I have over 1200 AI planes and in most cases when writing FP's or adding FP's from another source I have to compile and check on a regular basis.

Some of us do not use those automatic installers because we number our own AI Planes in the Aircraft.txt file. Most FP's if not all have FL's to high, RSVM enroute altitudes set wrong, many many errors in the turn around based on time starting before time ending and this is just the FP's designed for the WOAI packages.

I have to run everything through AITM and yRoute before I compile to FS9/FSX or TDBB compatibility. AITM and yRoute won't run in FSX but the FP's can be run back into those utiliities if a copy of the FSX Aircraft folder and current airport list is placed into those Utilities.

[gadgets]

John:I tried loading an airline with a wrong airport code in it. In the past, "Airports|Edit/Add Airport" gave me a display of what was known about the airport.

Now I get:

"Unhandled exception has occured in your application. If you click Continue, the application will ignore this error and attempt to continue. If you click Quit, the application will close immediately.It's fixed (I encountered it lat night too when was cleaning up another litlle "leftover" from implementing Martin's "scrolling airports". I'll release again tonight."


John, Jim:When developing, say, the flight plans for an airline, there is often quite a frequent need to compileOk, I'm convinced. I'm reluctant to make it a button due to real-estate limitations. But, I will add "compile again" menu item - same file, same name, same destination folder.

Martin, you'll be happy to know that there is now an airport-lookup-by-city-name function. Type the first few characters of the city name into an airport field followed by "?". Immediately upon detecting the "?", a list box containing all the cities that match along with the country and ICAO will pop up. Double click on a list item and the ICAO is inserted in to the field.

I'm going to be away for much of the day, so the new release will likely be late tonight.

Don

[gadgets]

It was all pretty simple. Version 0.73 here. (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v073.zip)

Don

[gsnde]

Don,

Seeing where this tool goes I think something many users will want is a bgl batch convert mode. If e.g. you would want to convert all MAIW traffic files you would have to touch 92 files :o

You think that can be added?

Cheers,
Martin

[gadgets]

Beta version 0.75 available. (http://members.shaw.ca/cyyj2007-2/AI Flight Planner v075.zip)

I wasn't able to get the user manual updated for this release but, otherwise it does what I said it would. Use the "standard" compile mode to be protected from the "37 minute problem". Unfortunately, there's one "hole" in the "37-minute solution". That is, an AI that originates more than about 100 miles from the destination airport that is to do touch n' gos upon arrival will be late. So, I've left the "unprotected" compile mode available. Otherwise, the solution appears to be "solid".

EDIT: The revised user manual is now in the uploaded archive file. (20080420:0300GMT)

The pre-compile logic and the arrival time handling has changed significantly in this release. I've given all the related functions a cursory check and the appear still to be working. But, I'm sure you'll find something.

Please refer also to the Notes to Beta Testers.pdf in the download.

Seeing where this tool goes I think something many users will want is a bgl batch convert mode. If e.g. you would want to convert all MAIW traffic files you would have to touch 92 files

You think that can be added?Martin, I'm not sure what a MAIW traffic file is. A function to decompile a number of FS9 files and recompile them for FSX would be fairly easy to implement (if that's what's involved), but likely would be a relatively slow process because of all the error checking on both the input and output which I've not yet optimized and probably won't attempt to do until Release 2. The difficulty is in reacting reasonably to error conditions. If such a capability would be generally useful, I'm happy to consider it. But I'd prefer to wait until after general release and get further input before "specing" it. (I expect I'll to have to make a second general release withing a month to six weeks of the frrst.)

Don

[JohnG]

Martin, I'm not sure what a MAIW traffic file is. A function to decompile a number of FS9 files and recompile them for FSX would be fairly easy to implement (if that's what's involved), but likely would be a relatively slow process because of all the error checking on both the input and output which I've not yet optimized and probably won't attempt to do until Release 2. The difficulty is in reacting reasonably to error conditions. If such a capability would be generally useful, I'm happy to consider it. But I'd prefer to wait until after general release and get further input before "specing" it. (I expect I'll to have to make a second general release withing a month to six weeks of the frrst.)

Don

Hi Don,
I have the same problem - with WOAI (World of AI) files (Military AI Works is similar), nbut in my case, I need to convert over 15 original FS9 files, and that includes modifying the day and correcting airports that have changed between FS9 and FSX.

One problem that I have identified is the absence of some airports listed in WOAI files from both FS9 AND FSX, so to make this viable, there needs to be some way of capturing these anomolies, and dealing with them. I'm doing it one at a time at the moment, hence the error message I posted above!

[gsnde]

Don,

it might be helpful to have the name of the currently loaded file visible somewhere - maybe in the title like "AI Flight Planner - V-0.75 Beta - Traffic_00_WoA_USAF Tinker AFB E-6B_Wi06.bgl".

[gsnde]

Don,

It looks like in the last release when you add unknown airports it has lost the ability to get the longitude & latitude values from the decompiled file. The altitude is still coming in clearly ;)

[gsnde]

In rare cases when I decompile a flight plan I get an error message like this:

<Name of the airdcraft.txt> is not an aircraft file.

This is the aircraft file for such a case

AC#0,0,""
AC#1,238,5,"MAIW_AAI_VC25A_82-8000"
AC#2,238,5,"MAIW_AAI E4B 73-1676"
AC#3,232,"MAIW HTAI C-20B 99AS 86_0202"
AC#4,232,"MAIW HTAI Gulfstream C-37A 97_0401"
AC#6,245,"MAIW_AAI_C32A_RCH_1_99-0003"
AC#7,245,"MAIW_AAI_C32A_RCH_1_99-0004"


I don't know where the additional numbers are coming from. I attach an some example bgls to here.

[gadgets]

Martin:it might be helpful to have the name of the currently loaded file visible somewhere - maybe in the title like "AI Flight Planner - V-0.75 Beta - Traffic_00_WoA_USAF Tinker AFB E-6B_Wi06.bgl". Good idea. It will be done.

In rare cases when I decompile a flight plan I get an error message like this:

Quote:
<Name of the airdcraft.txt> is not an aircraft file. Thanks for letting me know. Shouldn't be hard to find.
It looks like in the last release when you add unknown airports it has lost the ability to get the longitude & latitude values from the decompiled file. The altitude is still coming in clearlyI "messed around" a lot in there. It will soon work properly.

John:I have the same problem - with WOAI (World of AI) files (Military AI Works is similar), but in my case, I need to convert over 15 original FS9 files, and that includes modifying the day and correcting airports that have changed between FS9 and FSX.
.Please note that you don't have to change the day-encoding scheme. So long as the compiler knows which scheme is used in the FP file, it will make proper traffic file entries. As well, AIFP is "aware" of the airport changes between FS9 and FSX and will replace them for you. But, to do so, each leg must be run through the editor. This sounds more like a job for the "replace all" feature.

One problem that I have identified is the absence of some airports listed in WOAI files from both FS9 AND FSX, so to make this viable, there needs to be some way of capturing these anomolies, and dealing with them. You can add the missing airports all at once using the bulk-load feature of the airport editor.

Peter van der Veen's AI_FS9_FSX converter, available at http://aifs.pvdveen.net/ may be of use to you in converting your flight plans. I've never used it, but its description sounds helpful.

Don

[gadgets]

In rare cases when I decompile a flight plan I get an error message like this:

Quote:
<Name of the airdcraft.txt> is not an aircraft file.

This is the aircraft file for such a case

Quote:
AC#0,0,""
AC#1,238,5,"MAIW_AAI_VC25A_82-8000"
AC#2,238,5,"MAIW_AAI E4B 73-1676"
AC#3,232,"MAIW HTAI C-20B 99AS 86_0202"
AC#4,232,"MAIW HTAI Gulfstream C-37A 97_0401"
AC#6,245,"MAIW_AAI_C32A_RCH_1_99-0003"
AC#7,245,"MAIW_AAI_C32A_RCH_1_99-0004" This is a language issue that I've now fixed. To avoid the 37 minute issue, I (among other things) halve all the aircraft speeds before sending them to the compiler. The ",5" is the fractional part of the division if German language is selected. I should have discarded the fractional part. To avoid problem this until the next release, please compile with the "Compile Unprotected" option (the name of which I've changed to "Compile Raw" so as to not cause concerns about STDs).

Sorry, Don

[gsnde]

Thanks for the quick solution, Don.

Now that I have mass processed a considerable amount of traffic bgls and this was the only error, I can say that in regards of a batch mode the only thing that needs a good amount of thoughts is the addition of unknown airports.

Better and better and better :D

[JohnG]

You can add the missing airports all at once using the bulk-load feature of the airport editor.


Wrong way around, I'm afraid. These missing airports don't apparently even exist in FS9 or FSX, so adding them to the airport list just institutionalises bad data.

In the one instance I've followed through to completion, there is a real airport in both FS9 and FSX at the same location which would be the logical replacement, so I'm actually looking to be able to get rid of the spurrios ICAO code, and replacing it with the proper one.

I'm looking at using the flight planning tool to identify those in error, and their geographic location, and use a look up table I have to identify the real identifier, then bulk update in the txt files.

[JohnG]

Using 0.75, I got the following error:

"Unhandled exception blah blah.

InvalidArgument=Value of '-1' is not valid for 'index'
Parameter name is:index



See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: InvalidArgument=Value of '-1' is not valid for 'index'.
Parameter name: index
at System.Windows.Forms.ListBox.ObjectCollection.get_ Item(Int32 index)
at WindowsApplication1.FlightPlanner.OnDrawItem(Objec t sender, DrawItemEventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ListBox.OnDrawItem(DrawItemEv entArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ListBox.WmReflectDrawItem(Mes sage& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ListBox.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.O nMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.W ndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
AI Flight Planner
Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0
CodeBase: file:///D:/Program%20Files/Microsoft%20Games/Tools/AI%20Flight%20Planner/AI%20Flight%20Planner.exe
----------------------------------------
Microsoft.VisualBasic
Assembly Version: 8.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 8.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Microsoft.VisualBasic/8.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Runtime.Remoting
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Runtime.Remoting/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Runtime.Remoting.dll
----------------------------------------
Accessibility
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.1434 (REDBITS.050727-1400)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Accessibility/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Accessibility.dll
----------------------------------------
AIFPC_DLL
Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0
CodeBase: file:///D:/Program%20Files/Microsoft%20Games/Tools/AI%20Flight%20Planner/AIFPC_DLL.DLL
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box."

[gadgets]

John, do you recall what you were doing at the time? The error message isn't a great deal of help.

Don

[JohnG]

Yes, I was trying to select and modify an airport that isn't in the database. The flightplan had VTBS, which SHOULD have been VTBD. Go anywhere near trying to edit that and the crash occurs. It's repeatable.

[gadgets]

Wasn't able to duplicate the problem, but found an associated problem that could have caused your situation. Now fixed. I'll get a new release out by mid-day tomorrow.

Don

[gadgets]

Beta version 0.76 available. (http://members.shaw.ca/aifp/AI Flight Planner v076.zip)

Please refer to the Notes for Beta Testers.pdf and Version History.pdf included in the download.

Don

[JohnG]

Hi Don,
I think that I've found the solution to my "missing" airports problem.

Apparently none of the compilers, even Microsoft's, actually checks against Flight Sim to find out whether an airport in the airports file exists or not. (See http://www.world-of-ai.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?p=10771#p10771 )

"All the installer reads, all any traffic file creation program reads, even Microsoft's TDBB, is the data the airport input file - not the actual airports in FS.

You can pull a list of airports you have in your FS setup - but if a flight plan writer puts airport ABCD with a location and altitude in the flight plan airports file - it will compile in the traffic file."


In other words, all the other information that you are giving us in the tool (name of airport, etc) is "nice to have", but has no bearing on the actual flight plan generation, That leaves the problem as one of the available (or not) information regarding these, unlisted, airports. My suggestion is that if an airport's name, etc, is unknown by the user, that the tool assign "Unknown" to that value, and allw the user to add the airport with that as the only known details (other than ICAO, altitude, lat and long) in the airports file.

I also think that information should be added to the "stock", or "base" file for both sims, so that should the user come across the same airport again, there will be an entry to match.

BTW, how do you handle the changes between FS9 and FSX, where some airport names change, some were added, some were removed? This is quite important when importing FS9 flightplans into FSX, and I'm just curious as to where in the process you convert them.

[gadgets]

My suggestion is that if an airport's name, etc, is unknown by the user, that the tool assign "Unknown" to that value, and allw the user to add the airport with that as the only known details (other than ICAO, altitude, lat and long) in the airports file. Other than forcing the name to "Unknown", that is what the Airport Editor should allow. Are you saying it doesn't?

I also think that information should be added to the "stock", or "base" file for both sims, so that should the user come across the same airport again, there will be an entry to match.The stock airport files are intended to reflect the airports that are available to everyone. They are used only in (re)generating AirportList.dat. Not sure what it is you're trying to accomplish, since the "missing" airports will be in AirportList.dat which is the file users have ready access to.

BTW, how do you handle the changes between FS9 and FSX, where some airport names change, some were added, some were removed? This is quite important when importing FS9 flightplans into FSX, and I'm just curious as to where in the process you convert them. One of the files in the download is FS9CHG.txt. This is Peter van der Veen's file setting out the changes from FS9 to FSX. Its data is embedded in AirportList.dat. Whenever an ICAO code is entered into the leg editor, the system checks if it exists in only one of FS9 orFSX or if it underwent a name change from FS9 to FSX. In such situations, the user is warned. In the case of a name change, AIFP will automatically use the renamed version if then user directs.

Don

[JohnG]

So there is no current mechanism to convert when importing flight plans? Say, from FS9 flightplans into FSX? Only when creating flightplans from scratch.

[gsnde]

Don,

In case this does not happen yet John has made a very valid point here. The name change between FS9 and FSX should be checked and if appropriate corrected at some point before the actual compile run.

[gsnde]

Don,

The error with the aircrafts is fixed. But I still have an issue with adding unknown airports. Now both long., lat. as well as the altitude is reported correctly. But when I try to save, I get an error message: 'Unable to update the airport list. Insertion index was out of range. Must be non-negative and less than or equal to size. Parameter name: index'

Very often these unknown airports will be help constructions like waypoints and overlays. I don't think there is much of a chance to figure out what country or airport this is in a lot of cases.

So I suggest to default to 'Unknown' for all the text fields. Does this make sense?

I attach a bgl for you to test the error described above.

[JohnG]

That's not a million miles from the error I was reporting above. It was due to an index, called index, with a value of -1.

[gsnde]

John,

maybe you can try with my attached file and see what error you get.

[JohnG]

Hi Martin,
I get the same message, but I don't think that it's trying to add the airport to the correct file. Airport_Last already HAS this airport in it, and doesn't either need it added, or have the fields to take all that information. I think that it should probably be one of the Stock (or Base) airport files that this should be added to. If you tick both FSX and FS9, I think it should be both of one or the other.

[gsnde]

John,

Airports_last.txt is the file which will stay after the current operation has been completed. If you watch the work folder while the dialog to add an airport is still open, you will find 6 instead of 3 files. Airports_last, which is identical to Airports_04_WoA_USAF Hickam C-17 Package_Wi06.txt (for above example), and the same goes for the aircrafts and flight plans.

The good question indeed is where Don adds the information. The right thing to so seems to add it somewhere where it is found the next time the same ICAO comes along, would you agree?

[JohnG]

Absolutely - otherwise, why collect all the information?

[gsnde]

If I have not lost track this is the last outstanding issue that I am aware of which needs to be solved before the initial release. Do you see other things, John?

[JohnG]

I think that the other outstanding issue is determining if the tool will modify airports (where appropriate) between versions.

Thinking about this, I know that there are some airports that don't appear in each of the sims, and others that exist in both but are different.

I think that it would be worth while, for all those that exist in one sim, but not the other, for the entry to be in both, so that there should be less of a problem with flightplans designed for one being used by the other. This is NOT the case for airports that have changed their ICAO code, of course, which MUST be different in the two versions, and MUST be converted any time a user wants to change the day / move between FS9 and FSX flight plans.

[gsnde]

John,

I think we have to differ between three cases.

1. If you place a flight plan, and the airport is not known to the sim (-> is not included in the stock airport list), the flight is ignored. This will likely happen for user created airports, way points and airport overlays. For the flight to work the respective airport bgl must be present. This is nothing AIFP has to take care of but the user. But each new airport should be added once to AIFP's repository and be known from then on.

2. If an airport exists in one version of the sim, but not in the other, this is basically identical to the user airport situation described above. If we have a list with the delta for each FS version AIFP could flash a warning if you compile a flight plan where the target airport is not included in the stock list.

3. When the airport name has changed between the FS versions AIFP must translate before compiling, then everything is ok.

Does this make sense?

[JohnG]

I suggested that the airports that only exist in one, but not the other, should be added to the other, so that we can not only short circuit the process, but capture, in most cases, all the information about the airport.

I see no point in having a flightplan compile, for instance, in FS9 with a FS9-only airport, but throwing up an error message when you try to compile it in FSX, and then populating the main airport file with less than full information.

I do agree that is the ICAO changes, then the tool needs to know the differences, and applies them.

If this doesn't happen, we might both as well go back to bglfpfsxconvert for converting from FS9 to FSX. It will do 150 in one run, without any intervention!

[gsnde]

I suggested that the airports that only exist in one, but not the other, should be added to the other, so that we can not only short circuit the process, but capture, in most cases, all the information about the airport.

I agree that in all cases the information for any given airport has to be recorded in AIFP only once and from then on is known to the flight planning tool.

What I tried to say in the last post is that an error free compilation has nothing to with the flight plan actually working in the simulation. Say I change a flight plan from FS9 to FSX where an airport is included in FS9 which is no longer known to FSX. It is easy to compile the flight plan (in fact you can compile flight plans with only nonsense ICAOs). But in the simulation the flight will not occur because FSX knows nothing about the airport.

The question is if we need to warn the person sitting in front of AIFP about this?

[JohnG]

Currently, I think the tool doesn't know about that airport, if it isn't in the current set of airports, and this to me is a problem.

I agree, we should alert the user (the first time it happens in a set of flightplans), but I think that if we haven't already included, say FS9 airports that don't appear in FSX, into the set of airports, we are short changing the user.

[gsnde]

Don,

I did an import of the FS10 default flight plan to see how very large files are handled. I have been notified of an error in a comparable case.

During the import I had to confirm several times messages saying:
'An aircraft with the name "xyz" is already in the aircraft list'.

This should not happen for a smooth operation. If the message is important (is it?), then it should summarize what was not imported at the end.

[gsnde]

I can confirm the error I was notified about. It is not related to the file size.

Load any traffic bgl, then go to menu Airport, the select Arrivals & Departures, and try to select any listed airport. This leads to an exception error 'index out of array'.