New Project is not showing in FS

[kmanning]

I previously stated in the above post, the Airport background poly might not be green and hard to see because you are in a desert.

If you want a green airport background in a desert

DO NOT use the Type: Airport Background Tag: Flatten Mask Class Map ExcludeAutoGen

USE the Type: Airport Background Tag: Flatten ExcludeAutoGen

Now cover that poly with type: Land Class Tag: Airfield1

Looks like this

View attachment 22461

Hi Jim,
I followed your instructions and now it works. I used the "Airport Background" and "Flatten Mask Class Map ExlcudeAutoGen" because that was what the manual said to use. By the way, I did went ahead and added the runway and all of the airport elements and they worked fine. The thing I noticed was that the airport was actually about 100 feet or so below the desert. I raised the terrain using the polygon about 300 feet and then I noticed that the airport, this time, was above the desert. When I created the polygon, it was about 3 or 4 feet within the altitude of the desert, the desert being about 370 above sea level, I think. So I Wonder why it was a 100 feet or so below the desert instead of being level with it in the first place? I thought when you use this polygon, it flattens the area surrounding the polygon, clearing the area so to speak in FSX. Anyway, thanks so much for your help.

Ken.

 

[kmanning]

It depends on your mesh resolution and zoom.

Add a runway.

Hi George,
I assume you're referring to the Mesh Settings under the Display Settings in FSX. I did adjust the Mesh and it made no difference. But thanks anyway.

Ken.

 

[kmanning]

Ken

I found my original file and checked what type of ground polygon (in FSX) I used to produce in FSX what is shown in Figure 3-17/18/19 on page 34/35.

It is indeed as written in the Manual
- Type: Airport Background
- Tag: Flatten Mask Class Map ExcludeAutogen.

In my system this polygon is green.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit:
I used this in order to make the polygon visible.
The other polygon "Flatten Exclude Autogen" blends with the surrounding surface texture.
Please be aware, that the topic of "Terrain Modelling" is rather complex and therefore was not treated in detail in this introductory text of chapter 3.
Much more information can be found in chapter 9
-----------------------------------------------------------

Helli

Hi Helli,
Thanks so much for posting of your results and what was written in your manual. It's strange to me why you got the green rectangle and I did not. Here's one thing I thought about but I don't know if it actually played a part to my problem, and maybe I should explain. I noticed on the manual that this is for version 1.65, and when I downloaded ADE, it was version 1.65. But after I installed version 1.65, I either got a prompt or read it here that I can update to version 1.66, but this was not the full version. So, I updated my ADE to version 1.66. Could this have played a part with the problem I was having? I was thinking that if I had version 1.65, everything would have worked. Or maybe it's the type of video card one has. By the way, does the manual explain, in detail, what all of these types and Tags mean in the Properties?

Ken.

 

[kmanning]

Helli

There is nothing wrong with what you wrote and it is how the SDK expects the airport mask class map (green ground) to be applied. The problem for some parts of the world is the blending of the Mask Class Map. It will not always be green in a desert.


in my post above I show a picture of Winslow AZ which is in the desert.

Las Vegas airport default mask class map is all desert color and no green.

Phoenix airport default mask class map is mostly desert color with a small amount of green blending on the east side.

My advice above is if someone wants all green with no blending (in the desert) then use landclass airfield1.

Thanks Jim for explaining this. I'll try to remember that when I'm out in the desert. So, if I'm in an area that is not out in the desert, does that mean I'll see the green rectangle?

Ken.

 

[Helli]

Ken

Concerning the ADE version indeed the Manual is based on version 1.65.
Jon Masterson (scruffyduck) - the author of ADE added some improvements after the release of 1.65 and called it 1.66 in order to give it a "final" status.
Of course the manual does not mention these improvements. But you can read them and what they do in this part of the forum, just 5 threads higher up under the title "ADE Version 1.66.5555 Released".

The question, why the Manual has a green polygon and you don't, seems to be a tricky one. Jim Vile tried to answer it and I guess we have just to accept it.
You see, it is really not that important because the tag "Flatten Mask Class Map ExlcudeAutoGen" basically does only what it says. And there is no requirement on landscape type for its use.

Landscaping with the tags under the "Type: Land Class" is treated in chapter 9 "Terrain Elements".
I have to admit, that this chapter just scratches on the surface of the whole topic.
To explain fully all the inherent features would need another separate 300-pages manual. It is nor really an ADE-issue but rather a Microsoft Flight Simulator issue.
And I have also to admit that I do not yet fully understand it.
Maybe the table on Figure 9-5 helps you to start your own experiments.

Concerning the altitude, the manual explains around Figure 3-15 (on page 32/33) that normally the polygon is generated using the altitude of the airport reference point, which you created when you used the method of chapter 3.5 "Creating a New Airport". In Figures 3-7 and 3-8 this is 111.914 meters. This value appears also in Figure 3-15 "Properties of the Terrain Polygon".
But remember: this is the altitude of the reference point. The surrounding surface (outside of the flattening polygon) is neither flat nor even.
You have to find a compromise by adapting the altitude value in Figure 3-15. But you will always have a trough effect to some extend. FS9/FSX do not allow polygons with varying altitudes.

My advice to you is, continue working with a simple project and make it more and more complex over the time.
And don't hesitate to come back with questions, but not before you have tested all tools available (and clear) to you

Helli

 

[GHD]

FS9/FSX do not allow polygons with varying altitudes.

Not quite true. FS9 doesn't but FSX does allow polygons with nodes at different elevations.

 

[GaryGB]

Concerning the altitude, the manual explains around Figure 3-15 (on page 32/33) that normally the polygon is generated using the altitude of the airport reference point, which you created when you used the method of chapter 3.5 "Creating a New Airport".

In Figures 3-7 and 3-8 this is 111.914 meters. This value appears also in Figure 3-15 "Properties of the Terrain Polygon".

But remember: this is the altitude of the reference point. The surrounding surface (outside of the flattening polygon) is neither flat nor even.

You have to find a compromise by adapting the altitude value in Figure 3-15. But you will always have a trough effect to some extend. FS9/FSX do not allow polygons with varying altitudes.

My advice to you is, continue working with a simple project and make it more and more complex over the time.

And don't hesitate to come back with questions, but not before you have tested all tools available (and clear) to you

Helli

Not quite true. FS9 doesn't but FSX does allow polygons with nodes at different elevations.

I understand and appreciate Jim's Vile's explanation of the otherwise automatic selection of what (usually) is a reasonably compatible land class texture choice when the option for "Mask Class Map" is used in creating / modifying an airport background polygon as a FSX CVX vector BGL object with FSX SDK SHP2VEC via ADE.

And I certainly appreciate Helli's ongoing efforts to create an excellent manual for ADE.


But, just to be clear, the rather general and otherwise widely used term "polygon" (in the context of the above discussion within this thread), refers to the textured "Airport Background" polygon, which in the case of FS9, is described as distinct from a Vector Textured Polygon (aka "VTP") land class polygon ...created as a legacy (pre-FSX) special type of LWM object ?

IIUC, a LWM3 polygon can not be mapped with an "official" FS9 Apxxxxxx-type airport background texture type, and thus can not be used to make a sloped flatten at a FS9 airport (even though legacy format LWM3 vector polygons also are able to be displayed in FSX) ?

Thanks for any clarification of what is meant by the above quoted statements.



PS: If I followed this thread in sufficient detail, another important point has not yet been made for the OP; when making an airport, all "main" airport 'objects' must be set at the same Altitude / Elevation value to avoid display anomalies and/or to allow 'proper' AI aircraft traffic functionality:

* Airport Properties (sets Alt. for Airport Reference Point aka "ARP" & Starts / RWYs / Taxiways / Aprons)

* Flatten (more specifically, 'sectional' flattens placed beneath navigable objects ex: RWY / Taxiway / Apron)

*RWY (normally matches ARP, but 'Altitude' "can" be set separately in RWY XML code)

* Start Locations (aka "Starts"; normally matches ARP, but 'Altitude' "can" be set separately in Start XML code)

Airport elevation adjustment BGLs may also be required, and are created / placed as needed by ADE.

GaryGB

 

[scruffyduck]

ADE automatically sets runway altitude to that of the airport reference point. In general ADE ensures that all airport elements are set at the reference altitude and this includes a bunch of other things such as starts, ILS and so on. Of course other tools may not enforce these restrictions and there are ways to change the runway altitude in ADE which might be useful for things on buildings

 

[GaryGB]

ADE automatically sets runway altitude to that of the airport reference point. In general ADE ensures that all airport elements are set at the reference altitude and this includes a bunch of other things such as starts, ILS and so on. Of course other tools may not enforce these restrictions and there are ways to change the runway altitude in ADE which might be useful for things on buildings

Thanks for that update, Jon; I have edited my post above to reflect the newer ADE workflow.

Please let me know if I have overlooked anything more.

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Jon:

I forgot to ask if ADE 1.66x also now automatically implements 'Data Validation' in the form of a "corrected" non-integer parameter value for "Heading", with minimum 2-decimal place degree ranges in the specified format to avoid FS run time performance issues ... as discussed in this thread post (and linked threads):

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/bglviewer-for-fsx-bgl-files.432840/page-3#post-709294

[EDITED]

It looks like I may have made an editing error while copying / posting links in my post to the thread above; I have now corrected the links above:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/bglviewer-for-fsx-bgl-files.432840/page-3#post-709294

Sorry for any confusion this may have caused.

[END_EDIT]

Thanks in advance for your clarification of whether this has yet been considered in ADE.

GaryGB

 

[GHD]

a "corrected" non-integer parameter value for "Heading", with minimum 2-decimal place degree ranges in the specified format to avoid FS run time performance issues ..

Heading is a "Float". Why can't a float contain integer values?

 

[kmanning]

Hi,
Well, I created my airport and here are the results: When I created this airport earlier, without the green rectangle, it did just fine. But now that I put the airport within the green polygon, portions of the runway is beneath or under the ground, as you can see in the screenshots. The taxiways and all the other elements are okay. It just does it on the runway.

In the photo above, one may think that I'm at the end of the runway, but I am not. I am about a 3rd down the runway. In the screenshot below, you can see my position and how portions of the runway is under the green polygon. But notice that the apron and the taxiways do not go below the ground. Only portions of the runway is under the ground. Why is this?

Below is my Project File

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

I forgot to ask if ADE 1.66x also now automatically implements 'Data Validation' in the form of a "corrected" non-integer parameter value for "Heading", with minimum 2-decimal place degree ranges in the specified format to avoid FS run time performance issues ... as discussed in this thread post (and linked threads):

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/bglviewer-for-fsx-bgl-files.432840/page-3#post-709294


Thanks in advance for your clarification of whether this has yet been considered in ADE.

GaryGB

Heading is a "Float". Why can't a float contain integer values?

Hi George:

Not wishing to impart further digression from providing help to Kevin in his thread of inquiry, I'll simply state that my intention was to "quote" Gianni Mantellini (aka "thebeloved") from this thread:

I think i found a clue for this problem.

Everything seems related to the heading of runway in the source file to be compiled by SCASM.

My findings (but i hope someone can do other tests):

Runway heading must be declared in the range 0 to 179

AND

No integer values allowed!!!

So You have to add a smaller rotation to original heading (for example the rwy of Napoli Capodichino is 58 degress. In my source file i declared 58.01 degrees)

This trick (that is a combination of things discovered from other users) seems to restore correct lights functionality and help to regain smoother frame rates in FSX Acceleration.

Hope this helps...let me know if i'm wrong...

I'd be glad to discuss this sub-topic via a separate thread in the ex: Scenery Design - Airport Design forum area.

GaryGB

 

[scruffyduck]

You are going off topic - can we please stick to the issue for the OP? If you wish to discuss the intricacies of runway headings then please do it another thread since I don't see how it relates to runway altitude. If you read a runway heading in ADE you will see that we report it to six decimal places

 

[scruffyduck]

If you look at the project file you no longer have any flatten - you have land class of type Airfield1 - this has no altitude component. I cannot find the airport background poly which should be set to the airport reference altitude (366.916 feet. Place an airport backgound poly of type Flatten Mask Class Map ExcludeAutogen with an altitude matching the airport reference altitude. You can leave the land class there also if you wish

 

[kmanning]

If you look at the project file you no longer have any flatten - you have land class of type Airfield1 - this has no altitude component. I cannot find the airport background poly which should be set to the airport reference altitude (366.916 feet. Place an airport backgound poly of type Flatten Mask Class Map ExcludeAutogen with an altitude matching the airport reference altitude. You can leave the land class there also if you wish

That's what I was wondering. So in order to flatten the land or the ground for a new airport, it must be set to Airport Background and Flatten Mask Class Map ExludeAugen. But when I do that, I no longer have the green land class. That was why I made those selections. It seems I can only use one or the other. You mentioned that I can leave the land class there. I put it back on Land Class and got the same results shown in the photos above. I guess I did it correctly. I opened the project file, double clicked the green polygon, and set to Airport Background and Flatten Mask Class Map ExcludeAutogen. I compiled it, load FS, and it worked fine, but I did not have the green rectangle. Then I closed the simulator, went to my project file and changed it to Land Class. When I do Select Land Class, the list in the Tags also changed, and Airfield1 was already selected. That was what I had the first time but I tried it anyway, since you said I can leave the land class. I guess I missed understood you when you said that I can leave the Land Class if I wish. Other than that, everything works fine. So is it possible to keep the green land class and have it flattened as well? Maybe I did not do it right.

Ken.

 

[jvile]

It is a 2 step process.

If you want a green airport background in a desert, DO NOT use the Type: Airport Background Tag: Flatten Mask Class Map ExcludeAutoGen

I am going to say that again
DO NOT use the Type: Airport Background Tag: Flatten Mask Class Map ExcludeAutoGen

USE the Type: Airport Background Tag: Flatten ExcludeAutoGen as per the picture. This wil do 2 things

1. flatten the ground
2. remove all the autogen (vegetation) in the retangle

Now that you have a area that is flat and no autogen go ahead and cover that poly (draw) with another poly type: Land Class Tag: Airfield1
Looks like this and it will add grass to your flatten with no autogen.

I made the Land Class Airfield1 that is on top the Flatten Exclude AutoGen a little smaller so you can see I drew one on top the other.

DO NOT use a Mask Class Map. The Mask Class Map is a desert color poly (airport ground cover) when used in the desert and you want a grass poly (airport ground cover) in the desert so you must substitute the airfield1 in place of the mask class map dfeault color.

Let us know if you get it working

 

[kmanning]

It is a 2 step process.

If you want a green airport background in a desert, DO NOT use the Type: Airport Background Tag: Flatten Mask Class Map ExcludeAutoGen

I am going to say that again
DO NOT use the Type: Airport Background Tag: Flatten Mask Class Map ExcludeAutoGen

USE the Type: Airport Background Tag: Flatten ExcludeAutoGen as per the picture. This wil do 2 things

1. flatten the ground
2. remove all the autogen (vegetation) in the retangle


Now that you have a area that is flat and no autogen go ahead and cover that poly (draw) with another poly type: Land Class Tag: Airfield1
Looks like this and it will add grass to your flatten with no autogen.


I made the Land Class Airfield1 that is on top the Flatten Mask Class Map ExcludeAutoGen a little smaller so you can see I drew one on top the other.

DO NOT use a Mask Class Map. The Mask Class Map is a desert color poly (airport ground cover) when used in the desert and you want a grass poly (airport ground cover) in the desert so you must substitute the airfield1 in place of the mask class map dfeault color.

Let us know if you get it working

Hi Jim,
Just want to let you know that I got it to work now. It looks great. Thanks for your help. There is a little bit of a trouph because the land surrounding the airport is about 450 to 460 while the airport is at 366.916 feet. But I have a question about the airport that I would like to update. The airport name is Birmingham International or KBHM in Birmingham, Alabama. The latest one I have for KBHM is BHM2008.zip. Since then, we have a new terminal that's replaced the old one. Here are the photos below:

The screenshots above are taken from FS9 and these are the old terminal building. The screenshot below is the current satellite view of what the terminal looks like now:

My question is when the designer designed the old terminal in the BHM2008.zip file, did he designed the terminal using ADE or some other tools, like SBuilder or Gmax? I'm thinking that he had other tools because I cannot find a file that would open the scenery for the terminal. What I want to do is to update my KBHM so that it looks like the current satellite view. If I need other tools, what other tools do I need? I already have SBuilder and Gmax to start with, and of course, ADE.


Below is a screenshot of the bgl file of BHM2008 using ADE. When you look at this file within ADE, the terminal is not shown or there's no terminal there. But there are parking for the commercial jets. How is it that the terminal shows up in the simulator but not show here in ADE? I've clicked on all other bgl files and none of them will not open the file. ADE says that the other files do not contain an airport and ADE will not load. I assume by this that there must be some other tool that's used to create the terminal. If so, what is it or how is it put into ADE?

 

[tgibson]

I assume that there is more than one BGL file in the KBHM2008 package? If so, the buildings (and the placement information) are probably in one of those files. You can quit FS, move the BGL files other than the AFCAD/ADE file to the main KBHM folder (the parent folder of the scenery folder they are located in), restart FS, and see if they are gone. Then you can narrow down which one it is. Keep in mind there may be two BGL files involved - the library BGL file (which contains the objects themselves) and a placement BGL file. Sometimes these are combined into one file.

GMAX will create buildings that you can place in ADE, either as separate MDL files (which would be logical for the terminal and other buildings specific to this one airport) or as library objects. If you are already familiar with it then that would be the logical one to use.