changing navaids for stock airports

[AWStuB]

I'm trying to use ADE 01.70.6042 (with ProKey) to edit the VOR/DME navaids in Thailand, Laos, and South Vietnam to match the historically correct TACAN channels that were used between 1966 to 1973.

I have been able to use ADE to successfully edit navaids that are already included in addon scenery airports.
My problem is that when I try to do the same with stock airports, I end up with two navaids.

A specific example of an airport I'm trying to change is Pakse, Laos (changing VOR/DME from 115.000 to 113.500).
I use "Open Stock Airport" to bring it up in ADE and then compile it to a folder I placed within my FSX\Addon folder.
I then use "Open Airport from BGL" and pick the airport from the addon folder.
When I look at it, I see that the VOR/DME is missing from this new compilation.
I add the VOR/DME back in (with the corrected frequency) and recompile it.
When I look at the airport in FSX, I end up seeing the old navaid sitting next to, or on top of, the new navaid.

I must be missing a step in my process somewhere, but I haven't been able to figure out what it is.
Can someone please point me in the right direction?

 

[tgibson]

You should not be opening the BGL file to edit your airport, but instead open the .ad4 file you should of saved when you first edited the stock airport.

I cannot open the navaids for editing within the ADE airport display window. Are you using Raw Data View instead? I assume that since Jon does not allow you to edit them in the main ADE display they are not editable. If so, the best you can do is having two of them next to each other.

 

[scruffyduck]

There is a problem with Navaids. When Microsoft created FS they failed to provide any process by which we can 'delete', 'exclude' or otherwise stop a stock navaid from appearing. For things like airport elements we have delete flags that we can use to hide stock runways, taxiways etc. For things like scenery objects we have exclusion rectangles. For things like terrain scenery we have specific terrain excludes. For navaids we have nothing.

Experimentation showed that we can change some information and get away with it. In some cases we can move them a bit and they will move in FS and not duplicate. Go to far and they either duplicate or revert to the stock position.

ADE basically does not allow modification of stock navaids for all the reasons given above. If you use ADE to add a revised version then you are duplicating the stock one.

The bottom line is that if you want to update stock navaids then you end up hacking into stock files. Some people have done this and offered modified stock files. Others may do it for their own private use. We do not recommend in any way modifying stock files but if you want to update stock navaids in any meaningful way then that is what you will need to do and you are on your own if it all goes thingy over whatname

 

[AWStuB]

I'm not sure how to use Raw Data View....I'm viewing in normal view, I think.

When I open a stock airport I can see the navaids but cannot edit them. When I save the stock airport, it does not include the navaids, so I add them in.

You should not be opening the BGL file to edit your airport, but instead open the .ad4 file you should of saved when you first edited the stock airport.

I cannot open the navaids for editing within the ADE airport display window. Are you using Raw Data View instead? I assume that since Jon does not allow you to edit them in the main ADE display they are not editable. If so, the best you can do is having two of them next to each other.

 

[AWStuB]

I think I understand what you are saying. I was under the impression that everything within the addon airport would supersede the stock airport. I guess I missed the "except navaids" part.

It's a shame, as I don't want to move or delete anything, I just want to change eleven navaids so that their frequencies match the historically correct TACAN channels.

Anyways, thanks for the clarification.

There is a problem with Navaids. When Microsoft created FS they failed to provide any process by which we can 'delete', 'exclude' or otherwise stop a stock navaid from appearing. For things like airport elements we have delete flags that we can use to hide stock runways, taxiways etc. For things like scenery objects we have exclusion rectangles. For things like terrain scenery we have specific terrain excludes. For navaids we have nothing.

Experimentation showed that we can change some information and get away with it. In some cases we can move them a bit and they will move in FS and not duplicate. Go to far and they either duplicate or revert to the stock position.

ADE basically does not allow modification of stock navaids for all the reasons given above. If you use ADE to add a revised version then you are duplicating the stock one.

The bottom line is that if you want to update stock navaids then you end up hacking into stock files. Some people have done this and offered modified stock files. Others may do it for their own private use. We do not recommend in any way modifying stock files but if you want to update stock navaids in any meaningful way then that is what you will need to do and you are on your own if it all goes thingy over whatname

 

[Big777jet]

If you open Raw Data View.

You can edit try to play with this then when you are done. Click Close. then Save and complie ADE.

Try open airport ADE again if you see anything edit already changed from your edited. That's mean you have done worked fine.

Stuart

 

[AWStuB]

That looks like that might work to change it, but the problem is that it would be modifying the stock scenery and I need it to be addon scenery, so that I can share it with others.

My intention was for the corrected navaids to be included in a FSX@War Southeast Asia scenery pack that would be used for multi-player scenarios. I have copies of real maps from that period which have the navaids on them and I wanted people to be able to use them.

Thanks,

Stu

If you open Raw Data View.

You can edit try to play with this then when you are done. Click Close. then Save and complie ADE.

Try open airport ADE again if you see anything edit already changed from your edited. That's mean you have done worked fine.

Stuart

 

[scruffyduck]

The RDV works on the project you have open and will apply only to what you compile as an addon. I am not sure it would help since what you are trying to do is change properties which are readily available.

 

[AWStuB]

Am I understanding correctly that if I were able to change it in this manner (RDV), it would be changing my stock airport?

If it were only for my use, I'd be willing to try it (after backing up my stock scenery), but I need this to be available to others as addon scenery. I guess I might just try it anyway, just as a learning exercise.
It's very frustrating to me though, since with ADE it has been so easy to edit and add navaids that were included in the addon scenery airports.

Is it correct for me to assume that stock navaids in P3d4 are treated the same as in FSX?

The RDV works on the project you have open and will apply only to what you compile as an addon. I am not sure it would help since what you are trying to do is change properties which are readily available.

 

[tgibson]

No, that does not change the stock airport. It only edits the new airport BGL file you created with ADE.

 

[scruffyduck]

No the RDV will not change a stock airport - it is a way to bypass some of the restrictions of the normal way ADE modifies properties. That is you can change things in the RDV that you can't in the normal properties window. But it does not change the actual stock bgl file.

P3D uses the same basics as FSX and as far as I know they have not provided a way to exclude stock navaids

 

[AWStuB]

In trying to figure out how to enable addon scenery in P3d4, I was looking here http://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv4/sdk/references/configuration_files/scenery_configuration_file.html and I stumbled upon this:

The Exclude Property
The exclude property is provided to exclude the default scenery, objects and/or navigational aids, in a given four-sided area from being displayed, or transmitted in the case of radio navigational aids.​

So, the future looks a little brighter

 

[bina]

There is a problem with Navaids. When Microsoft created FS they failed to provide any process by which we can 'delete', 'exclude' or otherwise stop a stock navaid from appearing. For things like airport elements we have delete flags that we can use to hide stock runways, taxiways etc. For things like scenery objects we have exclusion rectangles. For things like terrain scenery we have specific terrain excludes. For navaids we have nothing.

Experimentation showed that we can change some information and get away with it. In some cases we can move them a bit and they will move in FS and not duplicate. Go to far and they either duplicate or revert to the stock position.

ADE basically does not allow modification of stock navaids for all the reasons given above. If you use ADE to add a revised version then you are duplicating the stock one.

The bottom line is that if you want to update stock navaids then you end up hacking into stock files. Some people have done this and offered modified stock files. Others may do it for their own private use. We do not recommend in any way modifying stock files but if you want to update stock navaids in any meaningful way then that is what you will need to do and you are on your own if it all goes thingy over whatname

Jon,

Thank you very much for detailed explanation! I've recently had the same problem of duplicate VORs in a 3rd-party addon scenery. They both were showing up in Little Navmap too. I was curious as to what could cause this 'problem'. Further investigation (and particularly your post above) revealed that the 'culprit' was the addon developer, who added the navaid to AFCAD.

But I still have a question - if the addon scenery's priority is higher than the stock scenery for the same navaid (NVX07020.bgl), will it still be visible in FSX? I can live with duplicate navaids in my flight planner but I really don't want to modify any files whatsoever, nor do I want to have problems at critical phases of flight...

Thanks!

 

[=rk=]

The statistical limit to redundant interrogatives insures sufficient queries will produce the desired response, which can be incredibly useful when changing reality. One has to be willing to appear to be doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results in order to actually achieve them and we applaud your diligence.

 

[scruffyduck]

Jon,

Thank you very much for detailed explanation! I've recently had the same problem of duplicate VORs in a 3rd-party addon scenery. They both were showing up in Little Navmap too. I was curious as to what could cause this 'problem'. Further investigation (and particularly your post above) revealed that the 'culprit' was the addon developer, who added the navaid to AFCAD.

But I still have a question - if the addon scenery's priority is higher than the stock scenery for the same navaid (NVX07020.bgl), will it still be visible in FSX? I can live with duplicate navaids in my flight planner but I really don't want to modify any files whatsoever, nor do I want to have problems at critical phases of flight...

Thanks!

Since FSX does not have a way to eliminate or hide a stock navaid then any and all copies of the navaid are likely to appear. The program AFCAD can do some duplication of navaids - especially ILS. ADE tries to sort this out when a bgl created by AFCAD with duplicate ILS is opened. Does not always work though.