Flight Sim World

[Gerli]

https://flightsimworld.com/

THE JOURNEY BEGINS
Dovetail Games’ much anticipated flight simulation platform is coming soon to Steam Early Access. Be sure to check back here for screenshots, video content, and much more!

 

[Ronald]

Forgive me for asking:
Is this product going to be "(previous Microsoft) Flightsimulator Steam Edition - Next Version / Generation" or an entire new product that is build from the ground up?

 

[nz255]

"(previous Microsoft) Flightsimulator Steam Edition - Next Version / Generation"

Forgive me for asking:
Is this product going to be "(previous Microsoft) Flightsimulator Steam Edition - Next Version / Generation" or an entire new product that is build from the ground up?

"(previous Microsoft) Flightsimulator Steam Edition - Next Version / Generation" this one.

For devs... it's ditched the FSX file format - or rather it won't have backwards compatibility.
It's now uses PBR and has on the fly AO.

"In order to market as an official FSW add-on, you will be able to sell your add-ons on your own store as long as it is made available on the Dovetail channels as well. " Aimee, Dovetail

 

[Diverskii]

DX11 and 64bit. It looks promising.

 

[dave hoeffgen]

What I see from the video is some highly improved rendering which is really cool.

Despite that I still see the old FSX style terrain with lanclass tiles and roads randomly cutting them. Also it gets muddy way too early at a distance.
I think that's simply overdue for replacement.

Also I couldn't see any of the ambient occlusion they announced. At least not where I expected it.

Shaking needles are cool indeed but if you ask me that can also be done inside xml animation codes in the existing sims, so it's not really a new feature.

In some of the aircraft shown the detail looks overdone, that might make the program non functional on some people's computers.


So far about my opinion and my observations (tell me if these are wrong)

 

[hairyspin]

Let us know when there's an SDK. Not interested until then, however lovely it looks.

 

[vololiberista]

And if it goes the same way as Train Sim World? Rather a lot of refunds I hear!

 

[dave hoeffgen]

A quick comparison approaching Sion (LSGS) runway 07

FSW (image from official site):

FSX default LC:

That particular airfield itself seems a little bit reworked indeed but only minor adjustments to the layout and the background poly.

Other than that the only difference I see are the ORBX LandClass textures and Autogen.
they apparently didn't even replace the old AFCAD textures, leave alone introducing a new and more realistic way to render the airport bases.

What I see above regarding material, reflection and shadow rendering I think FSW is somewhat like level with the current P3D version, maybe slightly ahead but I'm sure P3Dv4 will catch up with that.


Honestly, is that where "THE JOURNEY BEGINS"?

 

[Heretic]

Too much blah blah in the video, too little facts.

 

[=rk=]

Also I couldn't see any of the ambient occlusion they announced. At least not where I expected it.

Ambient occlusion is a method to approximate how bright light should be shining on any specific part of a surface, based on the light and it's environment. This is used to add realism.
https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/23/what-is-ambient-occlusion

It is possible that when the initials "AO" are used, one is able to mistakenly interpret the term "anisotropic occlusion," which more specifically affects the visual impression of shadows. The first obvious demonstration of ambient occlusion occurs at :52, it is followed by a statement at 1:23 that shows a still of what appears to be a 3ds Max capture with some coarse interference shadows applied at the wing roots, exhaust ports, etc. You can observe how the gear strut appears to shadow the underside of the wing with the suggestion that the ground is brighter than the sky, a virtually inevitable and regrettable consequence of any sort of occlusion operation.

Without criticising merits and aside from details about the mission planner, the greatest bulk of the presentation was devoted to visual - and in the case of rain or hail - audio advancements over previous simulators.

 

[dave hoeffgen]

Ambient occlusion is a method to approximate how bright light should be shining on any specific part of a surface, based on the light and it's environment. This is used to add realism.
https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/23/what-is-ambient-occlusion

Thanks for pointing out the obvious, I think most of us -if not all- alredy knew that.

I was just saying I didn't see it where I expected it, more specfically talking about that nosewheel shot in the video.

 

[Gman]

Ambient occlusion is a method to approximate how bright light should be shining on any specific part of a surface, based on the light and it's environment. This is used to add realism.
https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/23/what-is-ambient-occlusion

Thanks Rick, I didn't know what AO was.

Gary

 

[HiFlyer]

This seems to match DTG standard procedure from the trainsim days. Find a moribund niche, buy out the dominant title, refurbish and re-release, then dlc dlc dlc.

No reason it shouldn't work for them, except the 300 pound gorilla in the room, which is P3Dv4

 

[jonmkj]

Very hopeful for this one.

And for the devs at Dovetail Games:

If you had one shot. One opportunity to seize everything the flight sim community ever wanted... would you capture it? Or just let it slip?

 

[Ronald]

"(previous Microsoft) Flightsimulator Steam Edition - Next Version / Generation" this one.

Thanks for the confirmation nz255

For devs... it's ditched the FSX file format - or rather it won't have backwards compatibility.

Mmmm... is this a good way to increase community involvement, forcing them to start developing from scratch all over again?

"In order to market as an official FSW add-on, you will be able to sell your add-ons on your own store as long as it is made available on the Dovetail channels as well. " Aimee, Dovetail

And thereby forcing a kind of monopoly down all (non-preferred) developers throats, just like Apple, Google and Microsoft are doing on with their "Apps-stores" that have become the (almost) only portal that will give access to their owned and build platforms... I wonder if this will be a good thing?.

This line make me also wonder how about "Unofficial FSW-addons",
- Can they and how can these "Unoffical FSW-addon" be created by what tools?
- How can one be add "Unoffical FSW-addon" to somebodies copy of FSM on one's own computer?
- Does a non-preferred add-on developer going to have to pay a "license-fee" to DTG to even get a change to be published (see other thread about it over here) on the Steam platform
- http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/looking-for-c-or-xml-gauge-developer.439942/

Or is this a simple, elegant and very bold move to lockdown this flightsim-section of the market to only DTG own content and her "preferred 3rd party add-on developers"... introducing the "flightsim-App-model" and "DownLoadable Content model" into the flightsimulator world which will allows only few to fully control, dominate the future DTG flightsim world?

Let us know when there's an SDK. Not interested until then, however lovely it looks.

Exactly! Tom, that was the first thing that came to my mind too.
Is anyone - besides DTG and her inner circle of "preferred 3rd party add-on developers" - even get a fair change to start developing / adding their own
and/or some decent add-on materials into DTG flightsimworld when there is no decently documented SDK publicly coming out in the open.

I'm wondering what DTG in the end truly is going to deliver (to the users / developers community) from everything they stated in the video like:
(00:20) - "that they want to work with the community"
(00:35) - "DTG will provide a platform that will stand the test of time over 5-10 year"
(01:00) - "Changing from 32 to a 64 bits application"
(01:17) - "Really appreciate the aircraft in a way that was previously not possible"
(01:32) - "The systems in the aircraft are all faithfully represented"
(01:46) - "We work with a number of 3rd party developers, who have years of experience"
(02:15) - "...take it to the next step, we have the .... mission tool<cut> same tool as the DTG designers to create content"

Some (more) questions that came into my mind after watching this video:
How does DTG want to work with the community is a riddle to me, since they already have chosen to work with their preferred 3rd parties?
Is this program going to be a complete rewrite from 32 to 64 bits? or a simple recompilation from 32 nits into 64 bits software?
>>
I wonder if it is going to be possible to "ADAPT"/ "ADJUST" and/or "SWAP" their INTERNAL FLIGHTMODEL as well? (like Flightgear and X-plane already has)
- http://wiki.flightgear.org/Flight_Dynamics_Model
- http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/forum/53-flight-model/

Besides this, I'm wondering if DTG indeed will come out with an extensive - and above all well-documented
- coding-theory and
- relevant beginner to advanced level sourcecode-samples
so that everyone who want to learn the tricks of the trade can start doing so.

FINALLY another (long-term-development) question:
This line on their homepage, deep down in the black colored footer I found this line:
"This product is strictly for entertainment purposes only."

This line makes me wonder what kind of (long-term) intention of DTG when they state on the other hand this:
(00:35) - "DTG will provide a platform that will stand the test of time over 5-10 year"

Is DTG going to strip down and gameify previous FSX:SE into more of a Steamified / XBOX type of flight-game?

I'm looking forward to their next press-release

 

[=rk=]

Thanks for pointing out the obvious, I think most of us -if not all- alredy knew that.

I was just saying I didn't see it where I expected it, more specfically talking about that nosewheel shot in the video.

Always glad to help provide perspective.

 

[vololiberista]

Rumour has it that it will be released with GA aircraft only. And then what? People got TSW played it out and put it in the bin. Probably the same will happen with FSW. Also flight simming is not just about "eye candy" is it? I'll lay a bet that the ATC is as poor and innacurate as FlightSchool!

 

[hairyspin]

For devs... it's ditched the FSX file format - or rather it won't have backwards compatibility.

Mmmm... is this a good way to increase community involvement, forcing them to start developing from scratch all over again?

That's not news, DTG signalled they were not going to retain FSX compatibility a long time ago. Good thing too, there is no need to keep FSX(A) for ever: after another ten years the (A) would denote aspic, the well-known indigestible preservative.

 

[lionheart]

Interesting... That twin engine looks sweet. Great attention to detail.

Nice to see the guys that I have been writing to online. A face to go with a name. Hard working souls.

 

[ErickC]

It's now uses PBR and has on the fly AO.

That sounds awful... the only thing worse than PBR is Hamm's.

I am excited, but, insofar as I am concerned, as a developer, I am skeptical as to whether or not any of this means anything for me. This is for multiple reasons. First, of course, is that I have limited funds and limited time, so I will need to choose a platform to call "home." What platform will it be? P3D? P3D still uses XtoMDL, after all, so I don't have to learn/buy new tools. X-Plane 11? I'd have to learn new ways of doing things, but I learn quickly and Blender is free. Aerofly? That sim's for the 3DS club. FSW? Well, that's a big question mark. My gut says they have a financial incentive to make FSW a playground for the 3DS club as well. Why? It's logical: if people have to pay a $180 monthly tab for modelling tools, developers will be pouring commercial DLC into DTGs "channels" (and, of course, DTG will be taking a bit off the top, a bit more if you're not a "preferred partner"). Good for DTG, good for Autodesk.

I don't know about most of you, but, for me, a choice will need to be made. The biggest factor for my interest in FSW will be what tools I can use to put a model in it. I don't have a lot of time for building model airplanes, and the subjects I tend to gravitate towards are things that you can't really sell (and I'm not sure I want all the tax issues that go with being "self-employed"). There's no way I could afford 3DS without making commercial content, and there's no way I could pump out content fast enough to pay the tab.

FSW sure does look nice, though! Maybe having AO built into the sim's renderer will end the current trend of baking gaudy shadows into heavily washed-out, otherwise plain textures? A man can only hope.