Ground polygon preferred workflow?

[arno]

In my attempt to get clear what the user needs for a new ground polygon tool are, I would like to ask you which of the options specified in the poll is your preferred workflow when making ground polygons?

And if you would like to explain your vote or give extra details, please do so!

 

[TB111]

withdrawn...

 

[arno]

Hi,

I prefer Gmax because I can create ground polygons, then add buildings, road layers, telephone poles, and night effects. Then export bgls through fs2002 packing similar items together and ones that need special asm tweaks.

Let me check if I understood you correctly. Basically you are saying that you don't want an additional tool and are happy with using GMax and the current ways to export (including the manual tweaking).

 

[TB111]

withdrawn...

 

[arno]

Hi,

I am not interested in what the workflow is that you are dreaming of . I know that for most people this is the current workflow, but that is what I would like to change.

 

[toprob]

One thing which always strikes me when I'm making FS2002-style ground polys is that GMAX is certainly not the tool to do so. Placing a background image is overly-complex (good tools for 3D models, but an overkill for ground textures), and there are no simple ways to set the scale -- even with careful measurements I normally need to tweak the size of my planes, and the rotation is a nightmare...
So a new tool which simply addresses the issues of placing ground polys would be great. A background image from a GeoTIFF would be ideal, as this would automatically set the scale correctly.
A poly drawing tool which automatically determines the optimal 'cut' would be very useful too.

 

[arno]

Thanks Robin, that are indeed two features I have in mind.

 

[hcornea]

+1 for what Robin said.

Currently I texture onto a box of accurate scale as a background.
Guidelines are drawn onto the texture (for the poly edges), and the texture cut up into squares.
The image is scaled to square 1:1 pixels using a GIS-like tool (by measurement, not by degrees), then rotated to the most efficient form to cut up into textures.
The textures are then chopped up to squeeze the most out of every pixel.

Being able to cut what you want out would be very handy.

BUT - if possible, a way of accessing the derived geometry for further manipulation processing in Gmax would be ideal (for FSX native Groundpolys)

I haven't voted in the polll - but I guess ... other?

 

[nz255]

So you going to make a tool, separate to gMax?
Would it be an automated process like, select backdrop (select geotiff), trace apron, select layers and textures, export
Or something like gMax/modeling program but just for ground polys?

Would be great if you could get the FSX features to work for ground polygons as well. Just been reading today, and theoddkiwi got it to work, with rain reflections and so on.
Here:

Also don't know if you know, apparently the white lines that appear where the joins of the planes are, are from mipmaps being created.

And would be cool if you could somehow automate the creation of a edge to finish off the taxiway. But you would have to be able to select what parts of the taxiway have what texture as the material for different parts of aprons and taxiways can change. Eg. concrete to asphalt.
Here:

All the best, and thanks a lot

Nick

 

[LV-CMS]

So if the gmax "won" we'll not need FS2002 gmax gamepack to create ground polys for FS2004/FSX anymore? I dont know if i catch it right...

 

[arno]

Hi,

So if the gmax "won" we'll not need FS2002 gmax gamepack to create ground polys for FS2004/FSX anymore? I dont know if i catch it right...

It's not really about winning, a tool could also contain both ideas . But I think it is very important to provide a way that does not require the FS2002 gamepack, since especially for new developers that is quite a bit hurdle. Together with the tweaking it makes the process of creating ground polygons to complex.

 

[arno]

Hi Nick,

So you going to make a tool, separate to gMax?
Would it be an automated process like, select backdrop (select geotiff), trace apron, select layers and textures, export
Or something like gMax/modeling program but just for ground polys?

That is not decided yet, that's why I am asking for input here .

It could either be a post processing tool for GMax output, which would eliminate the requirement to have the FS2002 gamepack and do manual ASM code tweaking.

But it could also be a more complete ground polygon editor, allowing you to draw them without using GMax. Or maybe even both, I am still thinking about the exact scope and all the input from this thread is very useful for that.

Would be great if you could get the FSX features to work for ground polygons as well. Just been reading today, and theoddkiwi got it to work, with rain reflections and so on.
Here:

That's an interesting feature I did not yet think about. That would require a tool to bend your MDL file with the curvation of the earth. No sure how to prevent flickering with the terrain though, since the FS2002 tweaks are normally required for that.

Also don't know if you know, apparently the white lines that appear where the joins of the planes are, are from mipmaps being created.

It could be an idea to see if there is a solution around that. Or else at least do the mapping with an certain edge automaticaly.

And would be cool if you could somehow automate the creation of a edge to finish off the taxiway. But you would have to be able to select what parts of the taxiway have what texture as the material for different parts of aprons and taxiways can change. Eg. concrete to asphalt.

That's also a nice suggestion, I'll put it on the list to think about.

All the best, and thanks a lot

Thanks for you input .

 

[LV-CMS]

I think is not the propper tool and i don't know if could be possible but would be great if we can export API macros directly from gmax.

 

[flyscenery]

Maybe something for taxiway lines??? Maybe after the user draws the taxiway it could add a taxiway line automatically?

 

[nz255]

That's an interesting feature I did not yet think about. That would require a tool to bend your MDL file with the curvation of the earth. No sure how to prevent flickering with the terrain though, since the FS2002 tweaks are normally required for that.

I guess it would only work for flattened areas then. Maybe generate a flatten file with the poly. (Does a flatten make the area completely flat or flatten terrain while following the curvature of the earth?)

Anyway, you could work out the distance the earth falls for every 100m.

 

[arno]

I think is not the propper tool and i don't know if could be possible but would be great if we can export API macros directly from gmax.

Personally I consider API macros as something from the past. I would like to encourage people to use the modern technologies. So exporting API macros is not something I would quickly add to my tools.

 

[arno]

I guess it would only work for flattened areas then. Maybe generate a flatten file with the poly. (Does a flatten make the area completely flat or flatten terrain while following the curvature of the earth?)

Anyway, you could work out the distance the earth falls for every 100m.

I guess it needs some testing. I have added it to the list of ideas.

 

[nz255]

I could just make a ruler, 100m wide and a metre tall. Put one corner in the ground and read the middle mark. That would show you in theory how far it drops.

 

[arno]

The curvation of the earth is not that hard to calculate. I have done that short after the FSX release already to see how much influence it could have. I'll keep it into my mind to let the tool do that as well.

 

[nz255]

Is it the same everywhere, considering in real life at least, the earth is not the same shape?

Could you give me the figure please?