1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

New textures for Region D

Discussion in 'FSX terrain' started by poyares, 17/8/08.

  1. poyares

    poyares

    Joined:
    17/8/08
    Messages:
    3
    Country:
    brazil
    Hi folks,

    I have a question here and I would be very happy if someone help me with this. We know that FSX is divided in regions. The "D" region represents the South America East. My idea is pick the textures of scenery/world/textures FSX directory that are from "D" region (South America) and edit then, replacing with some photos from Brazil vegetation (including night textures). But the problem is that this region and some others are NOT in the directory. I mean, there's no textures relative with south america (XXX"d2"xx.bmp).

    So, does this region uses another region in FSX? (I mean, textures from another continent). If yes, how does FScene and others replacement textures sofwares works? (south america)How can I find these textures? There is a tool to make this?

    Thanks guys! Have a nice flight!

    PS.: I'm talking about FSX textures 1024x1024 pixels. In this case I'll edit one by one in photoshop.
  2. rhumbaflappy

    rhumbaflappy Moderator Staff Member Resource contributor

    Joined:
    2/6/04
    Messages:
    2,346
    Country:
    us-wisconsin
    Hi poyares.

    This is a link to Holger Sandmann's spreadsheet for landclass texture designation's:

    http://forums.simflight.com/viewtopic.php?t=57245

    If a region does not have a specific texture, it will generally use the "B" region texture as the default.

    The problem you have is not region so much as landclass texture. Make a new project folder. Make a new landclass BGL and place in a new scenery folder, inside the project folder. Make new textures and place them in a twin texture folder, inside the project folder.

    The hard part is chasing down all the texture names and variations, and their blendmask textures.

    Dick
  3. poyares

    poyares

    Joined:
    17/8/08
    Messages:
    3
    Country:
    brazil
    Hi Dick.

    So, let me say what I understood. Actually FSX has the region D inside (south america), but it's not possible to use, becouse there is no textures.And It's one more space for users to make new lanclass bgls. SDK must tell how to make a lanclass scenery. If I'm wrong, correct me.

    Just one more question, do you know how can I put night lights in my sceneries? I mean those ones that in the night looks like street lights (yellow or white lights, like in Ultimate Europe Terrain from Flight1).

    Thanks Dick, see you later buddy. Have a nice flight.
  4. rhumbaflappy

    rhumbaflappy Moderator Staff Member Resource contributor

    Joined:
    2/6/04
    Messages:
    2,346
    Country:
    us-wisconsin
    Hi poyares.

    FSX does use region D. But many of the region D textures are simply refered as the same texture names as region B ( the default region ).

    So if you wish to make a new set of landclass textures, they won't be used for that region only, unless you make a landclass bgl, and provide the new textures ( using the old texture names ) in a twin 'texture' folder. This hack is unchanged from FS2002.

    I'm not familiar with the UTX format of making lights.

    Dick
  5. poyares

    poyares

    Joined:
    17/8/08
    Messages:
    3
    Country:
    brazil
    Hi Dick,

    So the only way is to make a new landclass bgl with new textures sets. Do you think SDK teaches how to make it? Actually I don't mind if the region is working on D. By he way, it's more easy to replace textures from B region. But then I have another question (maybe it's impossible to answer): how do I know that when I replace the textures, It will be good in the scenery? I mean, if the textures will combine correctly. If not, Is there a way to make a trasparent mask to link the textures?

    Thanks for the help.
  6. EssieP

    EssieP

    Joined:
    23/1/08
    Messages:
    108
    Country:
    unitedkingdom
    It's worth getting this right. I have experimented with replacement textures for New Zealand & Australia, (a free version not the UTX set). The problem was that New Zealand looked better but my home area (UK) had miss-matched stripes East-West.
  7. rhumbaflappy

    rhumbaflappy Moderator Staff Member Resource contributor

    Joined:
    2/6/04
    Messages:
    2,346
    Country:
    us-wisconsin
    Hi all.

    I think you are finding out that replacing the default textures for a large area will involve lots of work. There are payware replacement sets that have already done this, so unless you relish the idea of countless hours of staring at a computer screen, you might want to consider just buying the work already done.

    That said, a texture replacement involves replacing all the named textures in the set, plus the blend-masks associated with it. These blend-masks help the textures align like a jigsaw puzzle, rather than straight-edged abuttments.

    Where the edges of your landclass bgl meets the default landclass require a border of transparent value landclass in the bgl ( value 254 ) so a straight edge is avoided there.

    It's a LOT of work, which is why there are not a lot of replacement sets out there. Even when you get the work done, there will always be some criticism, as other users will find their local areas not represented as they see fit... so not only is it a lot of work, but it may be thankless as well. :(

    This isn't so to discourage you, but to warn you of the problems you are going to face.

    You may wish to try a small area first, replacing the textures along with a landclass bgl, and see how that goes.

    Dick
  8. Timmo

    Timmo

    Joined:
    10/1/07
    Messages:
    547
    Country:
    newzealand
    Im having problems kindof along these lines so I thought I would post in here....

    Ive already made a vector polygon based landclass for the whole country and want to replace a few key textures.

    I did a small test by copying default texture to the 'texture' folder of the landclass, editing it and then resaving in imagetool. That worked. At that stage I was using a fairly basic landclass with just replacement polygons on the land.

    I then started doing the same for other textures (but also at the same time tweaking the landclass bgl- realigning the waterpolygons, adding streams + replacement texture for that, adding tracks and roads)

    Now I cant get ANY of the replacement textures to show? Even after stripping out all the other textures I had added into the folder?

    The only things I can think of are:

    Ive changed some landclass values inadvertely in the bgl (but I've checked this)
    It may have something to do with using an exclude for the default water polygon? (something that I hadnt included in the first version of the landclass bgl)
    It may have something to do with the replacement stream texture?

    ???

    Ill keep checking but if anyone has some things I could check that would be useful.
  9. HolgerSandmann

    HolgerSandmann Resource contributor

    Joined:
    10/10/06
    Messages:
    259
    Country:
    ca-britishcolumbia
    Hi Timmo,

    two issues I can think of:

    1. when working with custom textures in land class polys there's a quirk in FSX in that the poly area needs to be covered by a land class file. Sounds like you've done that already though.

    2. Dick is generally correct in that the fallback texture for regions without their own textures is Region B. However, there are exceptions and those are not listed in my land class table. Below is a list of the classes in Region D that don't use Region B. Note that the numbers refer to the VULCN index, meaning they represent the texture name. For example, Region D doesn't use the 005B*.bmp series but rather 005A*.bmp.

    5 A Non Geometric Crop
    8 F Non Geometric Crop And Town
    10 F Grass Crop Shrub
    11 Y Woody Savanna
    12 Y Woody Savanna And Field
    15 F Rice Paddy
    49 A Large City Highrise
    56 H Rock
    57 H Volcanic Rock
    69 A Dry Crop and Town
    71 H Tall grasses and shrubs
    82 Y Savanna grass


    There is another option: you can create your own Region bgl file and thus avoid all the complications that using Region D has. I've done this for a project in central Africa where I use Region B instead of the local region to have full access to the Region B textures. If you're not sure how to create region files see the readme of my land class table as well as http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3223

    Cheers, Holger
  10. Timmo

    Timmo

    Joined:
    10/1/07
    Messages:
    547
    Country:
    newzealand
    re 1: Do you mean a traditional raster landclass bgl? In that case, that may be the answer. Originally I was using a base raster landclass file consisting of all 'ice and rock' so I could see my polygons more clearly. I disabled this recently so it will be reading the default landclass for the areas not covered by polygons...I will re-initiate it and see if my textures show.

    Re 2: New Zealand, as you know, is region G according to the SDK docs. From memory, the 'B' texture worked for the small test I did. I also tried renaming the texture to 'G' trying to get the new texture to show recently. If everything else is fixed (i.e. I get the 'b' texture showing again) will having a 'G' texture in there work do you think?

    And yes, I have been referencing your landclass table extensively- It makes this whole process slightly easier! As an aside, it is sometimes difficult to match up the raster landclass values with their vector polygon GUID as the names aren't exact. This is why there is the possibility of me getting the wrong texture (i.e. Coniferous Forest Vs Conifer Forest?)

    Thanks
  11. HolgerSandmann

    HolgerSandmann Resource contributor

    Joined:
    10/10/06
    Messages:
    259
    Country:
    ca-britishcolumbia
    Hi Timmo,

    sorry, I got you mixed up with the original poster and ended up answering for both of you in the same post. :rolleyes:

    to 1.: yes, any standard land class file will do. If you don't have one of your own you can probably find a freeware file you can use as a base. The important thing is that the land class raster needs to fully cover each of your polygons.

    to 2. you're correct that Region G uses B for all classes it doesn't provide local (G) texture variants for.

    The confusion with the class names may come from the fact that FSX often uses more than one class for a given texture set. For example, both LC 3 "Coniferous Forest" and LC 24 "Conifer Forest" use the texture set 024b. Thus, if you need to go by the output (the actual textures) rather than the LC numbers I suggest you sort my table by the "FSX textures" column (column C) to spot the classes with common textures.

    Cheers, Holger
  12. Timmo

    Timmo

    Joined:
    10/1/07
    Messages:
    547
    Country:
    newzealand
    Holger! A thousand 'thank you's! I reactivated my base landclass file and my textures are now showing. Cheers:D
  13. Timmo

    Timmo

    Joined:
    10/1/07
    Messages:
    547
    Country:
    newzealand
    I thought I may as well continue with this thread rather than starting another

    For inland estuaries I have shrunken the water extent to include 'land' that is tidal or very shallow (i.e. mud flats, wet sand bars etc)

    These are then covered by a vector polygon of 'mud' which then calls a modified default texture in my texture folder. This texture has been modified by adding an alpha channel covering the whole texture so that a water effect is shown giving the appearance of mud/sand just below the surface of the water*. The default texture has no alpha channel so shows as 'dry mud'.

    The problem is, the texture only shows the water effect/alpha if the whole tile is covered with the mud polygon. For texture tiles that are split by my water polygons (i.e. tidal channels) the alpha/water effect isn't shown. This leads to some parts of the mud flat shown as 'wet' and others shown as 'dry'...

    [​IMG]

    Does anyone have any clues about this? Holger?

    * The water effect using an alpha channel is used on some default textures such as swamp etc but on these only parts of the texture has a water definition applied.

    Edit: Are there any terrain.cfg entries that deal with this? I had a thought that maybe there is a setting that gets around this for the default textures that have water/alpha?
    Last edited: 5/12/08
  14. Timmo

    Timmo

    Joined:
    10/1/07
    Messages:
    547
    Country:
    newzealand
    Hmm... I may have found the culprit- I have two polygon defintions which seem to share the same texture (white sand and mud)...I wonder if that is causing it.

    Until I can test that, anyone have ideas?
  15. rhumbaflappy

    rhumbaflappy Moderator Staff Member Resource contributor

    Joined:
    2/6/04
    Messages:
    2,346
    Country:
    us-wisconsin
    Hi Timmo.

    Textures for landclass must be DXT1, mipped, with no alpha. That's where your problem is.

    You need to re-think what you want. I'd suggest making a photoreal texture set for the tidal areas... then you can use transparency. Photoreal does not need to be a photo. It can be any image.

    Dick
  16. HolgerSandmann

    HolgerSandmann Resource contributor

    Joined:
    10/10/06
    Messages:
    259
    Country:
    ca-britishcolumbia
    Hi guys,

    actually, even in default FSX there is at least one texture set that uses DXT5 format with an Alpha channel to turn land into water. It's the 016b2 swampland set. In other words, in theory Timmo's approach is correct and SDK compliant.

    However, while trying to use the same method for some of my projects I noticed the same issue as Timmo. The problem is that these DXT5 tiles cannot peacefully coexist within the same QMID15 cell with FSX hydro polys. Somehow the shader gets affected and water reflections go AWOL. The severity of the issue depends a bit on the water effect settings but it's noticeable in all positions, if I recall correctly. I also tried different Alpha values and spatial patterns but none of them worked well. Moreover, the same issue is visible when using the default 016b2 set so it's definitely something ACES either didn't notice or didn't consider worth addressing.

    I managed to get around this by only treating inland water bodies in this manner but that's not an option for your tidal mudflats.

    Perhaps the best approach in your case would be to place your generic set as photoscenery, like Dick suggests. The potentially tedious part would be to embedd the main water channels in the correct places.

    Cheers, Holger
  17. Timmo

    Timmo

    Joined:
    10/1/07
    Messages:
    547
    Country:
    newzealand
    hmm....that is a shame. I was hoping that would be a standout feature of this package. Im not sure if the quasi-photoreal approach would be worth it. I have a country worth of data to do...

    Damn.

    Edit: I may look into using different water polygon definitions to get the effect I am after (anyone tried this?). Usual raster waterclass is too coarse to define the tidal channels but when flying over these areas in real life, they are very distinctive- Shallow areas contrasting with the darker blues of the deeper channels. In the default data the estuary, which is very shallow is rendered in a way that makes it look like a very deep sea.
    Last edited: 7/12/08

Share This Page