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Out of control flatten

Discussion in 'Airport Design Editor' started by marc underwood, 12/4/08.

  1. marc underwood

    marc underwood

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    Hi, was hoping some of you wizards can you wave yer wand in my direction...I am trying to design an airport from scratch, I have done this before using SbuilderX for flattening ect. Using the new improved ADE 1.22. All I have started with is an airport center/location, no runways or any scenery items added yet. I go to make a poly and airport background flatten exclude autogen, the flatten and exclusion part works fine and as expected, everything is flat and bare of autogen but....the size of the actual area of land that is flattened and excluded ends up being about the size of a county. Estimate the size to be about 200 sq miles maybe. This happens no matter how small I make the poly. In fact it ends up always being the same area so maybe its flattening and excluding an entire scenery sector or something??

    Anyhow I have never had this problem before creating airports and porbably something dumb on my part below are any particulars that may be necessary to know.

    ADE 1.22
    FSX sp2 / SDK 2
    Ulitimate Terrain X
    Ground Enviroment X
    X Graphics
    More than enough memory / speed ect don't think that matters much
    in this case.

    Area I am building is abount 10NM north of Columbus Georgia , near Lake Harding( Georgia / Alabama border ) Any help with this would be much appreciated, thanks.
  2. scruffyduck

    scruffyduck Administrator Staff Member FSDevConf team Resource contributor

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    Are you using a background image? If not then how did you scale the poly in ADE? To get a size to work with if threre is no background image then you can use guidelines to create a temporary rectangle. Guidelines have a measurement associated with them
  3. marc underwood

    marc underwood

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    I used the measuring tool to create the dimensions I wanted since I am building this from a drawn paper design. After first try and noticed the tremendous size of the area that actually got flattened and excluded. I then started experimenting with incresingly smaller sized polys. Last poly was a 1000 foot square centered around the airport geo center crosshair/tower viewpoint. It still made the same exact size (huge) flatten area.
    Also made sure add-on scenery was number one on the settings list. Also noticed that the area that actually gets flattened is NOT centered around the airport geo center. In fact no matter what size poly I do the area that gets flattened turns out to be the same. Its perfectly square approx 20 miles by 20 miles and the airport geo center is along the western edge of the flattened area. Not sure if this info helps any but thought it very odd, once again almost like its somehow flattening an entire scenery sector.
  4. bobbyjack

    bobbyjack

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    Jon

    Here are two people in two days that are having poly size and placement problems. They both have GenX. Any connection?

    Bob
  5. marc underwood

    marc underwood

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    Well I thought that could always be a possibility but I disabled all non default scenery in settings, although this is not the same as an uninstall I would imagine. But still got the same results. One super sized flatten.

    update.... All of my prior attempts I was reusing the same saved starting point ( nothing but an airport location ) So I decided to start from scratch again and part of the problem is repeating but it gets stranger.... I re-inputted the airport information, decided to just do a 1000' X 1000' square around the airport center flattened and excluded.... compiled and went to FSX loaded up and viewed everything was A-ok so far... closed FSX, went back into ADE and plotted out my airport using the measuring tool, stretched the poly to where I wanted it, compiled and went back to FSX.....This time I got the huge flattened and excluded area but right where my poly was I goy autogen LoL, the exact dimensions of my poly.... I erased everything started from scratch, did a poly the first time exactly the way I wanted it and once again got the same result ( huge flattened and excluded area with airport flattened but having autogen trees ....

    Could this be im using a combo poly thats too large? ( not square but roughly 7000' X 5000'
    Could this be that when I stretch the poly or made the poly I wanted it covered a very small lake and the first tiny poly that was correct was good because it did not intersect a seperate land class?
    Gonna expieriment and see what I can find out.
    Last edited: 12/4/08
  6. Golf-HotelDelta

    Golf-HotelDelta

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    No, Marc doesn't have photoscenery and it wouldn't matter anyway.

    Marc,

    Did you try viewing your cvx file in TmfViewer? You can use the cursor coordinates in the status bar to determine its extent.

    BTW, if it covered a lake you will need an exclusion polygon for the lake.

    George
  7. marc underwood

    marc underwood

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    Well I slowly started to shrink the poly I had to see if it would eventually get back to that one 1000 sq ' poly that both flattened and excluded correctly and I noticed something kind of important about this feature in ADE. When you compile an airport it does not completly erase or overwrite the CVX file. I did not notice this until I shrank the poly to next to nothing got same result then erased poly, compiled and got the result I had just prior. The scenery only reset back to the original after I manually erased the ADE CVX file for that airport, then compiled... tested and got original scenery again.. end result if you make any poly changes to your airport I would advise you to first erase the old CVX file before compiling. Now this may only happen when you remove the poly completly and not when you change the poly, but doesnt hurt to do it no matter what change you make.

    Anyhow now that I have that info I can further try to eliminate things and maybe get to the bottom of this.

    Update.... Well I am at a complete loss except for one thing, the ADE compile thing I just spoke of, works fine so long as there is still a poly on your airport, if you wish to remove all polys you do have to manually erase the CVX file in your add-on scenery folder for that airport in order to revert fully back to old terrain features. On the main note... I have made rather small polys ( approx. 2500' X 2500' ), the poly I have left the same but changed what it did each time then compiling, to make sure I was getting a full change I manually erased the CVX file before each compile then checked it out in FSX my results were... (All airport background polys) Exclude auto gen only = entire scenery sector gets excluded except for where the poly was placed and in the exact shape of the poly. Flatten only = entire scenery sector gets flattened including where poly is. Combo flatten and exclude = Entire scenery sector gets flattened, where the poly is you see autogen but the rest of the entire sector is excluded. Finally combo exclude,flatten and mask class = Entire sector gets flattened, excluded and stripped of its land class but.. where the poly was placed and in the exact shape it retained landclass and has autogen. So basically I am getting a combo sector wide coverage for flatten and reverse polarity for exclude and strip land class so to speak. I am at a complete loss, gonna try in another entire part of the universe and see if i get same result. BTW the above poly I made sure did not touch a road, water or any autogen but trees.
    Last edited: 12/4/08
  8. Golf-HotelDelta

    Golf-HotelDelta

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    (I think) that any polygon you make with ADE is added to the current cvx file in the work folder. This is so you can create an exclusion with one compile and a flatten with a subsequent compile.
    Perhaps Jon could add a check box option to "delete before" compile.

    George
  9. marc underwood

    marc underwood

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    Went to the desert of arizona created an airport with an elevation that I could clearly see, noticed something with the easier to see terrain of the desert that I may have mistaken in the location I was before. It seems that I am getting an opposite effect on my poly. If I exclude or flatten or both the entire scenery sector gets that effect and where I placed the poly remains unchanged completly. Like a mirror image. Well I give up for awhile unless someone comes up with an idea. Are there any conflictions with ADE 1.22 and sdk/sp 2?
  10. meshman

    meshman

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    withdrawn.
    Last edited: 29/6/09
  11. scruffyduck

    scruffyduck Administrator Staff Member FSDevConf team Resource contributor

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    Don't think so - the other problem related to scaling the background image
  12. scruffyduck

    scruffyduck Administrator Staff Member FSDevConf team Resource contributor

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    No George ADE starts from scratch each time. It should delete all the files in the Shape Folder before it starts a new compile.

    It will over write the cvx file in the active scenery folder. I can see a problem if you create any background polys, compile and then remove them all and compile again. The cvx file in your active scenery folder won't get deleted under those circumstances.
  13. scruffyduck

    scruffyduck Administrator Staff Member FSDevConf team Resource contributor

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    We will do some more tests
  14. scruffyduck

    scruffyduck Administrator Staff Member FSDevConf team Resource contributor

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    Thanks Lance. you could have removed the airport background with ADE ;)
  15. Golf-HotelDelta

    Golf-HotelDelta

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    That's a new one on me, I don't know how ADE knows what the active scenery folder is. I always copy it from the ADE\Shapes folder to an active scenery folder.

    George

    Ooops, I see that it creates a cvx file in the folder one selects to save the compiled files :eek:
    Last edited: 13/4/08
  16. scruffyduck

    scruffyduck Administrator Staff Member FSDevConf team Resource contributor

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    Well it places the cvx bgl in the same folder as the airport bgl file. You use a file save dialog to place the compiled airport bgl file. ADE remembers the last folder you compiled to but you can change it - wherever the airport bgl is compiled to so is the cvx file. What you have in the Shape folder are the work files. They were deleted when the compile is completed but I changed that to make de-bugging easier. They now get deleted when you run compile again. If they were not you could end up with all sorts of wierdness
  17. scruffyduck

    scruffyduck Administrator Staff Member FSDevConf team Resource contributor

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    I have run a couple of tests.

    I created a rectangular terrain poly and defined it as an Airport Background with Flatten Mask Class Map ExcludeAutogen.

    I compiled this and opened the resulting cvx file from the scenery file in FSX (not from the local Shape Folder) with TmfViewer. Comparing coordinates they are the same to four decimal places or so - certainly not a significant difference in size

    I doubled the exclude in ADE on both dimensions. compiled it again and checked it again. I didn't delete any cvx files in between. ADE and TmfViewer again agreed on the main coordinate points

    Finaly I turned the poly from a rectangle to a lozenge shape. Once again the dimensions in TmfViewer matched those in ADE.

    Not sure where that leaves us except that in this case ADE is certainly generating a poly that is intepreted correctly by TmfViewer and therefore by FSX
  18. marc underwood

    marc underwood

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    Yes, my problem doesnt seem to be ADE not making the poly correctly, I am somehow getting a reverse of everything, like the poly is flipped inside out. I make poly to flatten the entiore scenery sector gets flattened but ...in the shape of the poly i created... remains unchanged and un flattened.
  19. marc underwood

    marc underwood

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    I think I have given up trying to get the polys to work in ADE. Reverse image of what I want every time. I have been using sbuilderx and another airport program for a long time, I just discovered FSX KML, far superior in my view to sbuilderx for simple flatten exclude duties for making an airfield. Had it downloaded and literally was in FSX looking at exactly what I have been trying to achieve in about 10 minutes flat.
    So its onward to airport construction.... Since I was trying to use ADE because it could do the polys itself and that did not happen I will go back to my old airport program...not necessarily because its better but because I have money sank into that one. I won't say the name of it since this is your space and I am not gonna advertise for them here but if its any consolation , the absolutly stupid exclude autogen "rectangles" that the program offers has never excluded anything for me either, guess I am just cursed and can never have my cake(airport design) and my ice cream(polys) at the same time LoL.
    Thanks for the fast responses guys and scruffy. You guys did make a very nice airport design prog. I used ADE when it first came out for awhile and I would still be using it if I didn't need to get my moneys worth out of this other. luck to ya all
  20. Golf-HotelDelta

    Golf-HotelDelta

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    Hi Marc,

    I also invested in AFX, you can mention it here ;) but very quickly gave up on it when I realised that it produces a non-standard .bgl, ie. it is not compatible with the FSX SDK.

    George

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