1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Problem with SPJJ elevation and ADE flatten

Discussion in 'Airport Design General' started by annber, 20 Apr 2017.

  1. annber

    annber

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2011
    Messages:
    172
    Country:
    us-california
    Hi, I had asked Jon and GaryGB a question regarding this problem that I have since they had a thread that mentioned SPJJ back in 2011. I also thought I might have dealt with it a couple of years ago in a thread, but cannot find anything related.
    OK, here is the problem, I have started working on Jauja, Peru, SPJJ, and ran into an elevation problem pictured below.
    The default FSX airport has an elevation anomaly, so using ADE I first changed the airport elevation using tools / change airport reference data, then did a flatten. However, the anomaly is still there.
    Jon had asked me to check for a SPJJ_ADEX_BG_ALT.bgl in scenery/world/scenery. It is there Jon.
    Any help mightly appreciated as always.
    Bernardo. jauja.jpg
     
  2. GaryGB

    GaryGB

    Joined:
    23 Dec 2005
    Messages:
    3,233
    Country:
    us-illinois
    Hello:

    The work-flow for implementing changes to the FS default terrain in FS9 is substantially distinct from the work-flow for implementing changes to the FS default terrain in FSX. ;)


    I must also inquire whether this is intended for public distribution, or strictly for a "personal use" project, because, since you stated that this is for FSX, I am first compelled to ask whether you intend to utilize the FS default terrain mesh, or a replacement terrain mesh for all- or just this part- of South America ? :scratchch


    If you do plan to use a replacement terrain mesh, it must be installed, set active, and loaded during your flight session while you are connected to FS via FSUIPC in either ADE or SBuilderX when working with altitudes at or near SPJJ.


    Additionally, if this project is intended for public distribution, all end users must also have any such replacement terrain mesh installed, set active, and loaded during their flight sessions in the area(s) covered by your project.


    I recommend using the FreeMeshX "30 Meter" FS terrain mesh available for free use, and which might reduce your workload correcting for various inaccuracies in FS default terrain data, while improving the general scenery appearance in that region.

    IIRC, that terrain mesh (made from "30 Meter" / 1 arc-second source data) has 38.2 Meter intervals between elevation data points on the ground for South America, whereas FS default terrain mesh in South America has only 76.4 Meter intervals between elevation data points on the ground.


    While technically when viewed in FSX or P3D SDK TMFViewer, the default FS terrain mesh appears to have been compiled by Resample at a 30 Meter resolution, it seems to have been 'over-sampled' from lower 90 Meter resolution source data, and therefore offers much less terrain detail than is actually provided by the FreeMeshX "30 Meter" FS terrain mesh.:idea:

    http://ninetwopro.com/

    http://ninetwopro.com/freemeshx/

    http://ninetwopro.com/freemeshx/download-links-direct/


    BTW: If you require information on how to download only a 'portion' of the South America Torrent file using ex: U-Torrent, feel free to inquire further in this thread.


    I also recommend that you review the information on implementing changes to the FS default terrain this thread:

    http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/create-small-slope-on-terrain.438028/


    Note that in your screenshot above, your flatten polygon surrounding the airport "clips" the terrain rather than blending into the terrain at the edges, and may require creation of a "blended" flatten terrain 'skirt' where it meets the surrounding terrain.

    Also note that the highly-raised area (which I presume to be the Airport Background / Boundary polygon of your "central" airport area flatten) ...does not match the local terrain elevation.

    The altitude of the Airport Background / Boundary polygon for your "central" airport area flatten must always match the altitude of the Airport Reference Point (aka "ARP"), as well as that for the RWYs / Taxiwys etc. :pushpin:



    Pending your reply to my question regarding whether you plan to use a replacement terrain mesh, I suggest you attach your ADE project file (*.AD4) and all ADE-created BGL(s) for the area in question ...to assist with determining what caused the terrain anomaly seen in your screenshot above. :)

    GaryGB
     
    Last edited: 21 Apr 2017
  3. annber

    annber

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2011
    Messages:
    172
    Country:
    us-california
    Gary, let me add some info and answer a couple of questions.
    1. I use FSGenesis Peru mesh: http://www.fsgenesis.com/nextmap-fsx-peru, that mesh is active as an addon in FSX.
    2. I do intend to release this a a freeware addon, with custom photoreal scenery and ground polygons.
    3. Here are two pictures, one with FSGenesis mesh, one without.
    4. I have also included all related ADE files.
    Thanks for the help!!
    Bernardo.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. annber

    annber

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2011
    Messages:
    172
    Country:
    us-california
    Gary, my flatten polygon was a temporary one in order to see if I could get those highly raised areas out.
    The two highly raised areas are for the airport background and the other one is for the lake that resides in the area. I thought I followed the advice from your 2011 thread, in fact the altitude of both my flatten and the ARP are the same in ADE, as are RWYs and Taxiways.
    I am currently downloading the FreeMeshX for the area to see if it would make a difference.
    I still don't understand why the flatten made did not work.
    Bernardo.
     
  5. GaryGB

    GaryGB

    Joined:
    23 Dec 2005
    Messages:
    3,233
    Country:
    us-illinois
    Hi Bernardo:

    I have downloaded your files attached above, and will reply tomorrow (Friday) with troubleshooting suggestions.


    BTW: The FSGenesis terrain mesh at LOD-11 / 19.2 Meters resolution will likely be (1) LOD level more accurate and detailed than the FreeMeshX 30 Meter terrain mesh.

    However, very few of your end users will likely purchase that payware product, but may be willing to utilize the FreeMeshX terrain mesh freeware, so I would suggest that you make the version to be distributed to the public based on Altitudes in FS using FreeMeshX.

    GaryGB
     
  6. annber

    annber

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2011
    Messages:
    172
    Country:
    us-california
    Yes Gary, a very good idea about the mesh. I have downloaded it, so when I come home this afternoon I will install the FreeMeshX.
    Bernardo.
     
  7. GaryGB

    GaryGB

    Joined:
    23 Dec 2005
    Messages:
    3,233
    Country:
    us-illinois
    Hi Bernardo:

    The basic procedure we are often compelled to follow with terrain polygons is "Remove and Replace".:pushpin:


    You must exclude FS' default SPJJ Airport Background / Boundary polygon to remove the "airport on a plateau" anomaly:

    http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/flatten-and-exclude-airport-background.344094/

    http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/default-airport-background.438294/

    https://www.google.com/#q=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+exclude+default+airport+background

    [EDITED]

    Your SPJJ Airport objects, as well as Airport Background / Boundary exclude polygon(s) can be made with ADE connected to FS to log vertex coordinates and altitudes.

    * Airport objects objects may all be contained within (1) BGL compiled by FSX / P3D SDK BGLComp

    * CVX vector objects may all be contained within (1) BGL compiled by FSX / P3D SDK SHP2VEC.


    CAVEAT: Elevation of the SPJJ RWY center at 12,414.66 Ft. / 3784 Meters in FS default terrain mesh:

    [FSX install path]\Scenery\0304\scenery\dem0304.bgl

    ...is higher than the real world elevation at 11,034 Ft / 3,363 Meters of same by 1,380.66 Feet / 420.8252 Meters

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Carle_Airport


    I would suggest doing the exclude first; and after having successfully removed the default SPJJ Airport Background / Boundary exclude polygon(s) with the underlying terrain mesh displayed as you wish using FreeMeshX, then consider making the replacement SPJJ Airport Background / Boundary polygon in (2) sections:

    * Central area of the airfield only (required so that AI traffic / ground vehicles and G-Polys will work properly)

    * Peripheral area 'surrounding' the flatten polygon for the Central area of the airfield (a 'terrain 'skirt'; optional)

    NOTE: This would normally be made as a "sloped flatten" consisting of multiple polygons (triangles) in which the vertices match the altitude of the flatten polygon for the Central area of airfield where they adjoin it, then the Peripheral vertices match the altitude of the terrain mesh where they adjoin that surrounding ground surface.


    FYI: This latter peripheral "sloped flatten" may not be required if you only need to flatten the Central area of the airfield so that AI traffic and ground vehicles will work unimpeded, and G-Polys can be draped onto the underlying flat ground surface.


    BTW: If available aerial imagery is LOD-17 or higher, and of good quality, you may not even need to use G-Polys. ;)


    Once the underlying terrain mesh is displayed in FS as desired using FreeMeshX, with ADE connected to FS to log vertex coordinates / altitudes, create a new water polygon at an appropriate Altitude which matches the local terrain. :idea:


    PS: Be certain to work only from any "non-hidden" vector data sets in your *.AD4 file and replace entirely the SPJJ_ADEX_BG_CVX.bgl you linked above, since it contributes an un-wanted very large "flat" flatten which causes the other 'clipped' terrain drop-off anomaly seen in your screenshot; that "flat" flatten polygon is the one for which you may- or may not- wish to substitute a "sloped flatten".


    If you 'open' the KMZ file attached below in Google Earth (stand-alone 'desktop' application), you will see your custom "flat" flatten polygon from SPJJ_ADEX_BG_CVX.bgl, ...within the context of aerial imagery.

    https://www.google.com/earth/download/gep/agree.html


    Note that this "flat" flatten polygon in your custom CVX vector SPJJ_ADEX_BG_CVX.bgl has an additional impact on the local terrain 'shape' which is separate from that imposed by the visible flattened default water polygon contained within:

    [FSX install path]\Scenery\0304\scenery\cvx2736.bgl

    ...which requires its own separate "specific exclude" and replacement CVX vector object procedures.

    [END_EDIT]


    Hope this helps with your troubleshooting process ! :)

    GaryGB
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: 22 Apr 2017
  8. annber

    annber

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2011
    Messages:
    172
    Country:
    us-california
    Thanks Gary, just came home so I will read your post carefully before proceeding, but about the above quote, I would like to have the option of just installing the portion of the mesh that deals with Peru, so if you have that it would be great, Bernardo.
     
  9. annber

    annber

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2011
    Messages:
    172
    Country:
    us-california
    Hi Gary, following your advice I was able to eliminate the airport background plateau as shown in image, but the other plateau is still there even with an exclude. I have noticed that said plateau corresponds to a default lake in the area, so I don't think it belongs to the airport background, does it? Maybe I am not following your instructions properly.Bernardo.
    BTW, that image is with FreeMeshX.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. GaryGB

    GaryGB

    Joined:
    23 Dec 2005
    Messages:
    3,233
    Country:
    us-illinois
    Hi Bernardo:

    Indeed, the un-wanted hydro poly is in a FS default 'miscellaneous CVX vector' BGL for that area, and not in:

    [FSX install path]\Scenery\0304\scenery\APX27360.bgl


    So, if you first open in FSX / P3D SDK TMFViewer, your own custom CVX vector' BGL:

    SPJJ_ADEX_BG_CVX.bgl


    ...then open the FS default 'miscellaneous CVX vector' BGL for that area:

    [FSX install path]\Scenery\0304\scenery\cvx2736.bgl


    ...and if you zoom in / out using NumPad + / - keys, you will see the water poly in question.


    Right-click on the poly-line and polygon for that water poly, and choose "Identify Vector Features"; the result is:


    Hydro_Polygons_Generic_Lake_Perennial {BCD5C182-9C8B-4C57-97BD-272CF492CBFF}

    ...and:

    Shorelines_Generic_Lake {7B3229D8-18ED-4F4D-AE22-12660862ABA1}


    These require a specific type of exclude as alluded to in the linked threads I previously cited in my post above:

    http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...elevation-and-ade-flatten.439912/#post-770336



    If you require further help with that specific type of 'CVX vector exclude', feel free to inquire further in this thread. :)


    PS: I assume you found that the FreeMeshX terrain mesh file for your SPJJ project area was: "S20W080.BGL" ;)


    GaryGB
     
    Last edited: 28 May 2017
  11. GaryGB

    GaryGB

    Joined:
    23 Dec 2005
    Messages:
    3,233
    Country:
    us-illinois
    FYI: I'd purposely use a 'legacy' 32-Bit version of U-Torrent to eliminate most advertising mischief, and never allow any updates that would otherwise cause an upgrade which may then allow ads and other security risks to run wild.

    http://www.oldapps.com/utorrent.php?old_utorrent=12306

    http://www.oldapps.com/utorrent.php?old_utorrent=12181


    After starting a download of a large FreeMeshX Torrent package, I select that Torrent in the upper right-side window pane, then in the lower right-side window pane on the {Files} tab, I right-click on the files I wish to NOT download, then choose "Don't Download" in the pop-up context menu. ;)


    Hope this helps save some hard drive space for you ! :cool:

    GaryGB
     
    Last edited: 22 Apr 2017
  12. annber

    annber

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2011
    Messages:
    172
    Country:
    us-california
    Gary, thank you for the tip on the mesh .bgl for Peru. Just tried again and the plateaus are finally gone (attached image), thanks for the time you took to help, it is very appreciated. Now I need to determine if the imagery is good enough for the runway, it is LOD17 so maybe it works.
    Bernardo
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Big777jet

    Big777jet

    Joined:
    5 Apr 2010
    Messages:
    391
    Country:
    unitedstates
    I have no problem with this. I fixed flatten large area in SPJJ and new AP927360.bgl. I will release soon in AVSIM library for update scenery and no more deep hole airport. FS2004 only.

    Stuart
     
  14. annber

    annber

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2011
    Messages:
    172
    Country:
    us-california
    First test of scenery, still need to add a wider arc of photoreal scenery and blend it to default. May add more autogen trees and buildings. May also need to make a custom ground polygon for the runway.
    Thanks for the help Gary, might still need advice though.:) jauja02.jpg jauja03.jpg
     
  15. GaryGB

    GaryGB

    Joined:
    23 Dec 2005
    Messages:
    3,233
    Country:
    us-illinois
    Hi Bernardo:

    Custom photo-real aerial imagery applied to the ground via "flat" 3D models (whether by SCASM / ASM or MDL objects) versus Resample land class terrain methods each have their own unique features and development challenges.

    Have fun exploring your options ! :cool:

    GaryGB
     
  16. annber

    annber

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2011
    Messages:
    172
    Country:
    us-california
    Hello again, one quick question, I tried the scenery in P3D, and the flattens I did for FSX do work in everything else, but there are two peaks at the airport. Is there something else that needs to be done for P3D? SPJJmay2017.jpg
     
  17. GaryGB

    GaryGB

    Joined:
    23 Dec 2005
    Messages:
    3,233
    Country:
    us-illinois
    Hi Bernardo:

    I just today noticed your new post above, and will reply later tonite or tomorrow upon my return from traveling. :cool:


    Generally speaking those anomalies are most often due to default FS lakes with assigned water body flatten elevations, or in some cases they are low profile spikes in source data for a super-imposed custom terrain mesh. :scratchch


    If you slew onto them and save a flight (aka "*.FLT") file for the user aircraft position at the top center of each spike, and ZIP those FLT files together within your C:\Users\[Windows user profile name]\Documents\Flight Simulator X Files (or "Prepar3D files") sub-folder, then attach that ZIP file in this thread, I will see if I can find any basis for the anomaly in FSX.

    Although I do not have P3D yet, I don't think there is a difference between default terrain mesh files in FSX and P3D. :)

    GaryGB
     
    Last edited: 29 May 2017
  18. annber

    annber

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2011
    Messages:
    172
    Country:
    us-california
    Hi Gary, thanks for the reply. I will start a new more general post regarding ADE and P3D, I am a bit confused to say the least.
    Bernardo.
     

Share This Page