Roads

[Geoff Cox]

Until about a week ago I was able to draw all the various roads with ADE 165, now I can still draw them, but they don't show. Would the fact that I've have installed the latest obix vector files have an effect, or do I need the pro key?

 

[gadgets]

Geoff, where in your Scenery Library relative to the Orbx entries is your airport. Orbx places their entries at the top. Any airports you wish to display other than Orbx's must be relocated to be above Orbx in the Scenery Library.

Don

 

[scruffyduck]

You don't need a ProKey to create roads in ADE

 

[Geoff Cox]

The airports concerned are in the addon scenery folder, so are not controlled by orbx, what info do you need to ascertain the problem with the roads not displaying

 

[scruffyduck]

As Don says. The Orbx files may be loading after your files in Addon Scenery\scenery. If so they can defeat your work. This article may be of interest: https://scruffyduck.screenstepslive.com/s/help_docs/m/20268/l/199760-priority-matters Also go to your Scenery Library Settings and make sure that Addon Scenery is at the top

 

[GaryGB]

Hello:

With all due respect and great appreciation for all the past- and ongoing- efforts of Scruffyduck to document and promote creation and/or use of add-on scenery for FS, IMHO, it may still be best to leave the FS default Addon Scenery layer at its default position in the FS Scenery Library GUI stack of layers as intended by ACES, and to maintain compatibility with the many work-arounds for AFD / AFCAD / AF2 airport "stub" *.BGL files, and even 'mis-placed' ADE *_ALT.BGL or *_TER.BGL files.


FYI: ADE by default, compiles airport project output BGLs into a nested sub-folder of the [ADE install path]\ folder chain, ex:
[Airport Design Editor install path]\FSX\Bgl\


When the time comes to 'relocate' those files, rather than placing them into the [FS install path]\Addon Scenery\Scenery sub-folder location, it may instead be best to:


Create a NEW folder chain under the [FS install path]\Addon Scenery top-folder (or elsewhere), with:

* A top-folder named for ex: the airport ICAO or the same default airport project file name as used by ADE, and having:

* A nested \Scenery sub-folder

NOTE: IMHO, ADE BGLs previously placed into [FS install path]\Addon Scenery\Scenery, IMHO "should" instead be moved into that new \Scenery sub-folder path as described above.


* If needed, a locally-'paired' \Texture sub-folder, as well


This new airport project folder chain must then be manually added as a new "Area" at the "TOP" of the FS Scenery Library GUI stack of layers.


BTW: In addition to the above suggestion, it is possible to minimize the recurrent issue of having 'active' OrbX FTX product layers place themselves back at the top of the FS Scenery Library GUI stack of layers (literally every time FTX Central is run) ...via creation (in FTX Central) of an "Insertion Point".

If you review Page 8 of 25 in this OrbX "FTX Global User Guide", you will see how to use FTX Central to implement an assigned "Insertion Point" for positioning of OrbX FTX product layers within the overall FS Scenery Library GUI stack of layers, regardless of how many new "Area" layers are subsequently added for other payware, freeware, or end-user-created add-ons, ...and regardless of how many times FTX Central is subsequently run:

http://fullterrain.com/usermanuals/FTX Global User Guide.pdf


Hope this helps with sorting out current (and future) add-on display priority issues !

GaryGB

 

[GHD]

Addon Scenery is just another scenery area and may be placed anywhere in the scenery heirarchy.

Don't forget that the default (Aces) addon scenery area is empty

 

[GaryGB]

Addon Scenery is just another scenery area and may be placed anywhere in the scenery hierarchy.

Hi George:

Good to still see you still in the forums ...and 'keeping the bar high' here at FS Developer !


Considering the number of end user-created, as well as 3rd party freeware and payware sceneries that may have implemented work-arounds and "fixes" for airport and other scenery issues, as well as having installed scenery package content such as terrain mesh etc. all intended to "load low and early" in the Scenery.Cfg via the default "Addon Scenery" Area layer position ...over the years and several versions of FS, I would still be inclined to advocate that the FS Community would do well to leave the FS default "Addon Scenery" Area at the default location in the FS Scenery Library GUI stack of layers.

And I do believe that ACES wrote the installers for FS to place the FS default "Addon Scenery" Area at the default location in the FS Scenery Library GUI stack of layers unique to each individual version of FS ...for a reason.

Don't forget that the default (Aces) addon scenery area is empty.

True; but for the reasons stated above, I am still compelled to advocate the general advice that end users should keep their FS default "Addon Scenery" Area at the default location in the FS Scenery Library GUI stack of layers.

BTW: I am curious, George:

Have you ever tested this:

1.) "Removed" the Area entry for FS default "Addon Scenery" from the FS Scenery Library GUI stack of layers of FSX (ex: by editing the 'active' Scenery.Cfg ...even if [FS install path]\Addon Scenery\Scenery is "empty" as you cited above)

2.) Exited FSX

3.) Re-started FSX

...and seen any "anomalies" in either the FS Scenery Library GUI stack of layers itself, or in 3rd party Scenery.Cfg utilities ?

I have !

GaryGB

 

[GHD]

Then it is the 3rd party utilities which are at fault.

Note that by default, addon scenery has the atttribite "Required=FALSE".

Note further that P3D doesn't have an addon scenery area.

 

[scruffyduck]

ACES intended it to be at the top Gary and to be honest if we start telling folks to leave it beneath other scenery layers added by third party offerings then I for one have no idea how we are going to tell them to get their stuff to show properly. In that case we need to tell the user to add their own specific folder which they then have to make sure stays at the top of the stack and doesn't get trumped by other third party stuff.

1. Tell folks to put their stuff in Addon Scenery and make sure that is at the top
2. Tell folks to invent their own scenery area, put their stuff in it and then make sure that one stays at the top

As George says LM have decided that they want users to go down the second of these options since they do not, by default, provide an Addon Scenery folder

 

[GaryGB]

Then it is the 3rd party utilities which are at fault.

Note that by default, addon scenery has the atttribite "Required=FALSE".

Note further that P3D doesn't have an addon scenery area.

Since we are presumably discussing FSX based on inclusion of the FS "Addon Scenery" Area layer as a subject in this thread, I had not intended to comment on the issues related to P3D.

But now that you mention "it" (P3D), I am indeed aware of the intended changes LM seeks to impose for use of external target folder locations and configuration files for 3rd party add-on content.

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/prepar3d-v3-dissapointment.435243/

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/prepar3d-v-3-installation.435322/

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/prepar3d-v3-dissapointment.435243/page-2#post-723514



Not wishing to "attribite" you in the bum, George, but(t):

Dare I paraphrase Ed's post by asserting that moving the Addon Scenery Area layer in FS Scenery Library GUI is a 'bad' idea?

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/prepar3d-v3-dissapointment.435243/page-2#post-723539

"Bad ideas are just that... bad ideas. It matters not whom provides the idea... if it's bad... it's just bad. Bad installer, bad file location cheat. Bad."

I personally believe "most" end users (and would-be FS Developers of scenery packages) will be less at risk for anomalous results that disrupt scenery display ...by NOT moving Addon Scenery Area layer position from its default location in FS Scenery Library GUI.

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

ACES intended it to be at the top Gary and to be honest if we start telling folks to leave it beneath other scenery layers added by third party offerings then I for one have no idea how we are going to tell them to get their stuff to show properly. In that case we need to tell the user to add their own specific folder which they then have to make sure stays at the top of the stack and doesn't get trumped by other third party stuff.

1. Tell folks to put their stuff in Addon Scenery and make sure that is at the top
2. Tell folks to invent their own scenery area, put their stuff in it and then make sure that one stays at the top

As George says LM have decided that they want users to go down the second of these options since they do not, by default, provide an Addon Scenery folder

I agree, Jon, that it can be an inconvenience to the possible original intended purpose of the FS default Addon Scenery layer being a "catch-all" for a < small ? > handful of end-user created files that really "should" be positioned at the TOP of the FS Scenery Library GUI stack of layers (inside new, discrete folder chains having a top-folder containing a nested \Scenery sub-folder (...and if needed, a locally-'paired' \Texture sub-folder).



IMHO, the fact remains, sadly, perhaps, that there has been 'accumulated preponderances' < which multiply- and are legion- > of so many "end user-created, as well as 3rd party freeware and payware sceneries that may have implemented work-arounds and "fixes" for airport and other scenery issues, as well as having installed scenery package content such as terrain mesh etc. all intended to "load low and early" in the 'active' Scenery.Cfg via the default "Addon Scenery" Area layer position ...over the years and several versions of FS, I would still be inclined to advocate that the FS Community would do well to leave the FS default "Addon Scenery" Area at the default location in the FS Scenery Library GUI stack of layers."

And I do believe that ACES wrote the installers for FS to place the FS default "Addon Scenery" Area at the 'default' location in the FS Scenery Library GUI stack of layers unique to each individual version of FS ...for a reason.


But then, I also believe that it was NOT a good idea for FS Developers to ever have "installed scenery package content such as terrain mesh etc. all intended to "load low and early" in the Scenery.Cfg via the default 'Addon Scenery' Area layer position."


It is indeed a challenging problem, and AFAIK, the only effective work-around is to compel end-users and developers alike, to create their own 'active' Scenery.Cfg Area layers 'linked' to their own folder chains either inside- or outside- the FS / P3D default folder chains, then position those layers at their own 'required' location within the FS Scenery Library GUI stack of layers .



It would seem that the FS Community now needs their own version of a 3rd party (freeware) utility that can "TAG" 'active' Scenery.Cfg Area entries so that they can be positioned at- or near- the TOP of the FS Scenery Library GUI stack of layers ...functionally comparable to the above cited "Insertion Point" feature in OrbX FTX Central, except all (non-OrbX) "tagged" entries stay 'ABOVE' that position.


Arno, gadgets, Scruffyduck, Golf-HotelDelta, rhumbaflappy et al (aka: "FS-Illuminati"), could you please create such a utility ?


GaryGB

 

[gadgets]

Having been invited to write a utility to enforce Gary's suggestion, I feel it's time to weigh-in.

The point seems to have been lost that it appears the underlying issue in the post starting this thread was that the user had, in fact, adopted (perhaps involuntarily) what I understand to be the suggested approach, ie., the Addon Scenery entry in the Scenery Library being well down in priority.

I'm with George. To me, the Addon Scenery\scenery folder is just another scenery folder. I know of no special requirements for it nor of any advantages from it being in a particular location in the Scenery Library - ACES reported intentions notwithstanding. For my own part, I don't use it except as a quick test bed; as such, it resides at the top of my Scenery Library.

I have always thought it presumptuous of third party developers of applications having broad application, such as Orbx, to place any needed entries at the top of the Scenery Library, thereby claiming full domaion over the sim. But, I understand the selfish reasons behind the act.

Flight Simming has become more complicated than it used to be. With all the third party add-ons available, some apparently written by less-than-fully-knowledgeable developers, one needs to understand what each item in the Scenery Library does and how it relates to other items. But, we all know how much interest there is in reading user manuals - even when they exist.

It's unlikely we could be successful in training a whole generatioon of FlightSimmers who have become accustomed to doing largely whatever they want to adhere to a new set of rigid guideleines. And, I can't concieve of an automated way to sort this out. But, developers such as Orbx allowing knowledgeable users to specify the destination location in the Scenery Library would be a great help. For newbies, doing so would at least alert them that the matter may be of some importance.

My two-cents worth,
Don

 

[Geoff Cox]

I thank you all, now that I see what's going on, I'll have a bit of fiddle and let you know the result

best regards
Geoff

 

[Geoff Cox]

I'm a very happy chappy, moved the addon scenery to the top and every thing works again, thank you all so much. also that new file MFDB is amazing

regards

Geoff

 

[tgibson]

Gary,

I tend to agree with you - in my community the Addon Scenery/scenery folder (and scenery layer) is used for AFCAD/ADE/AFD files that modify the default airport, without many additional scenery files. That provides a modern airport. Any files that backdate an airport's AFCAD/ADE/AFD file to the classic era is placed into a CalClassic Core/scenery folder, layered just above the Addon Scenery folder. Any complex scenery is placed above that in its own layer, for example Addon Scenery/Havana 1962/scenery. This provides an easy to understand and easy to change layer structure, that automatically has the proper priorities for a classic flyer.

Don't have anything? The default airport will have to do.
Have a modern enhanced AFD file? That will be read from the Addon Scenery layer.
Have a classic AFD file but no custom airport? That will be read from the CalClassic Core layer.
Have a full classic custom airport? That will be read from a folder (layer) above the CalClassic Core layer. (Custom modern airports can also be placed here).

Thus no activation/deactivation is needed, the proper airport is always loaded.

If a custom airport AFD file needs to be edited, I suggest to people they back up the original AFD file in the custom scenery's folder, and place the edited one in there. That keeps the priorities straight.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Tom:

Thanks for sharing that perspective, and for helping to illustrate the practical considerations I was endeavoring to point out.

And, of course, our mutual insights on the way that the FS default Addon Scenery layer "can" end up being used, are based on active ongoing development for FS9 (...and in my case, for FS versions as far back as FS2000 as well).


In principle, I am actually in agreement with most "casual" FS end-users of the FS default Addon Scenery layer having the 'option' for that layer to be treated as would any other folder chain ...by virtue of never containing more than a handful of files that are NOT priority-sensitive.

That is only possible, of course, when any priority-sensitive files are purposely moved into their own separate 'active' Scenery.Cfg Area layers 'linked' to their own folder chains, with those layers positioned at their own "required" location within the FS Scenery Library GUI stack of layers.


But, as I pointed out above, there is already such a greater likelihood of end user FS installations having (sooner- or later-) 'accumulated preponderances' of scenery files all intended to "load low and early" in the 'active' Scenery.Cfg via the default "Addon Scenery" Area layer position ...over the years and several versions of FS, that I would still be inclined to advocate that the FS Community would do well to leave the FS default "Addon Scenery" Area at the default location in the FS Scenery Library GUI stack of layers.



Certainly I'm glad that the OP has resolved his priority issue; but, I believe this sub-topic of "how best to do that" merits further ongoing discussion (either in this thread ...or elsewhere).


And I also would see some potential benefit to further consideration of what features might be added to existing FS utilities, to make it easier for end users to create a target output folder chain for compiled files that are to be directed into- or moved into from prior existing locations- ...so that they are less likely to be 'tempted' to simply 'Drag-N-Drop' all loose files in the Addon Scenery\Scenery sub-folder as an ever-expanding "catch-all".


GaryGB