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rotate to user problem

Discussion in 'FSDS' started by jyarddog, 14/7/07.

  1. jyarddog

    jyarddog

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    I did it once and can't do it again!

    I found a picture of a swimmer, did the alpha trnaparency thing on the bmp, using dxtbmp. Fixed things up in FSDS and compiled. Using mdl tweaker II I used rotate to user added condition and saved. Went to place the object, but it rotated when I used heading in Instant scenery. Rotate to user the heading slider should not affect it. I thought it would be noremal once I restarted fs9. Nada! Won't rotate.

    Back in fsds I heard somewhere that the z axis is supposed to point down in the right view pane. Tried that, same result, no rotation. Tried this a few times. Each time I had to start with a new box because I changed the z axis, texutre wouldn't place correctly even when I rotated the z axis back to where it was when I started.

    That's no biggie. The problem is trying to find the right thing to do in fsds so rotate to user will work after using mdl tweaker. Any ideas?

    --------------


    A btw question. some textures sometimes will not show up, ergo- grey. Moving the textures to fs9\texture solves the problem. Any ideas why this happens now and then? Bob
  2. arno

    arno Administrator Staff Member FSDevConf team Resource contributor

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    Hi,

    Do you not see the plane rotating or do you not see it at all?

    If the first is true I guess the tweak was not applied properly. Are you sure you saved the change MDL and compiled the BGL file using it again?

    If the second is true, then it is probably rotating away from you, try to design the plane facing in other direction. In GMax I have to make them face the negative y axis. But I am not sure FSDS uses the same axis.

    About the textures. It should never be necessary to put your textures in the global folder. If everybody did that, the folder would be become a huge mess. Your textures should go in the texture folder that belongs to the scenery folder where the BGL file is stored that contains your MDL.

    So if you are using an object library, the textures go with the library, not with the placement. I have once seen missing texture problems because I had loaded the same library twice, while the textures were not in both textures folder (of course the real problem was loading it twice, which is a bad idea).
  3. jyarddog

    jyarddog

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    rotate to user

    Arno- Thanx for the reply. My object is a swimmer, but I think this happens with other objects I've made. I still can't rotate with the wind, but I thought i coud with user. (Thought I had done it a week ago, maybe not)

    Opened mdl tweaker II, opened my swimmer mdl, new condition, choose rotate to user, applied, then saved. In EZ mgr open one of my libraries, added the swimmer-tweaked, generated the bgl and saved. Went to fs9 and placed... did not rotate. With heading I turn it around, which I should not be able to do if it's tweaked to rotate to user. I can see both sides of the object I made. I'm sure I'm missing an easy step somewhere.

    Agreed about the texture files. My statement was that once in a while I see this happen. It might be only two or three textures. Moving those to fs9\texture sovles it. I've had to do this only twice in the last 3 or 4 years.

    I have a ez scenery folder with a scenery and texture sub folder each inside. library bgl's in ez-scenery\scenery and corresponding bmps in ez scenery\texture. Keeps everything else clean.

    When I upload I might put everything in one folder with scenery and texture inside. the user only has to move the whole thing to addon scenery and activate. - easy. If I do that on my own machine I get libraries showing double in Instant Scenery... drives me nuts. So i don't do that. Bob
  4. arno

    arno Administrator Staff Member FSDevConf team Resource contributor

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    Hi,

    That indeed sounds like the tweak did not work. Could you attach your tweak MDL so that I can look if the code has been inserted correctly?
  5. warmingham

    warmingham

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    Rotate to User?

    Hi Bob,
    Exasperating isn't it!
    I just spent the whole afternoon trying different things.
    Yes indeed the MDL Tweaker does not seem to work on occasions but I think that it has to do with how we set up the object. For example one cannot just tweak an object if the original conditons are not correct.
    I think 2 things are important.
    1. That we should clear the FSDS memory of previous objects - particularly if we are going to tweak it in the end. Shut down and re-boot if necessary! Other than that I do not know what will do it. There is a whole list of undo files in the main folder!
    2. Make sure that the object we are designing has the axis at the bottom and that it is centred correctly - zoom in as much as possible and check.

    This is my afternoon's work. I even tried to arrange the asm files but without success - too many things to change - so I gave up - although I had done it previously very succesfully as I had told you.
    Below you will see a few combinations of rotating the axis.
    Only 1 worked! I then tried it with a box and got nowhere - which is why I said to clear the memory of FSDS (another one of them pesky bugs v3 has?)
    The latest one worked OK using the default set up in FSDS of making a box 20 x 20 but using depth=1.

    ************
    Rotate to User

    Using a thin box for a tree (depth=1).
    These are my results of rotating the axis.
    Of the 5 shown below - only 1 works!
    I am sure there may be other combinations but I got fed up in the end seeing it not working!

    1. This works
    In FSDSv3
    Y-facing Upwards - (bottom left window)
    Z-facing the front - (top left window)
    X-facing the right - (both the above windows)

    2. This doesn't work
    In FSDSv3
    Z-facing Upwards
    Y-facing backwards
    X-facing the right

    3. This doesn't work
    In FSDSv3
    X-facing Upwards
    Z-facing the Front
    Y-facing the Left

    4. This doesn't work
    In FSDSv3
    Z-facing Upwards
    Y-facing the Front
    X-facing the Left

    5. This doesn't work
    In FSDSv3
    X-facing Upwards
    Y-facing the Front
    Z-facing the Right
  6. jyarddog

    jyarddog

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    rotate to user

    Arno & Warmingham-

    here's the mdl you asked for. I'll try the xyz thing. I figure it has something to do with that. My box I use .1 for depth, width and height I used 6 & 6 or 4 & 4. I don't know of .1 is good. If I use a thicker depth there's too much of a chance the edges show up in the transparency. Bob
    Last edited: 22/4/08
  7. jyarddog

    jyarddog

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    rotate to user

    Arno and Warmingham- Got it solved. If I keep my paws off the x,y,z axis but configuring my primative with axis or origin at the bottom it seems to work well. Thans to both of you.

    Additional question-

    As you can see by the screenshot the lone swimmer has some grass background showing due to grass in the immedite area. The other does not (the girls together). However, slewing around, this disappears on the swimmer but appears on the standing girls. Why is that? In my alpha I used black to cover the background. Should I use pure green instead? Bob

    sorry if the pic shows twice, not sure I did this right.
  8. jyarddog

    jyarddog

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    rotate to user

    didn't show up. ah! ic.
    Last edited: 22/4/08
  9. arno

    arno Administrator Staff Member FSDevConf team Resource contributor

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    Hi,

    I can't really see the problem from that small image. But how did you make that swimming pool? It sounds a bit like a drawing order problem.
  10. jyarddog

    jyarddog

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    Ah! Sorry for the small pics. Maybe these are a bit better. Two view points. Notice how each, at a certain view shows grass through the transparency while the other does not, and vs when the view point changes. At another view both are ok or both show the grass. Bob
    Last edited: 22/4/08
  11. arno

    arno Administrator Staff Member FSDevConf team Resource contributor

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    Hi,

    I guess your water is also a 3D object? Depending on your position to order of drawing these 3 objects is different. The object that is closest to you gets drawn last. So what you are seeing is a drawing order problem and this would indeed be different from different angles.

    I think the easiest solution is to use DXT1 textures, as they seem to automatically solve this problem. Controlling the drawing order yourself is a lot harder.
  12. jyarddog

    jyarddog

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    Arno- Thank! I will certainly try that!
  13. woody

    woody

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    just my two cents worth here. You have to always put your object at north when you place it in EZ-scenery "I dont know about instant scenry I just got it and havent plyed woth it yet" If you dont place it at the north heading . you will not see it. It is turning but you only see the back side of it. So make sure that it is facing north . and when you make it in FSDS v3 it has to be on the o axes to work. hope this helps some.

    woody
  14. jyarddog

    jyarddog

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    Thanx guys. dxt1 corrected teh drawing order. All's well. Woody- right on... rotate to user face north. Just to make sure I'm ok I'll hit the spacebar to face north then run my Instant Scenery or EZ to 0 and go from there. Bob
  15. John Stinstrom

    John Stinstrom

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    Cannot "Rotate to User" with Model Tweaker II

    Hi all, I have a similar problem to JYARDDOG but I don't see that the problem got resolved? Here is my model both original and tweaked. Is there a diagnosis for the no-rotate problem?
    Last edited: 9/4/08
  16. warmingham

    warmingham

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    Hi John,
    Arno should really answer this post as it is his 'Tool' that is in question. However, here is my solution! Look at the pic I have attached and also the tweaked mdl file. I made one myself in FSDS and it didn't work either, even though I joined everything into one object.

    I cheated or let us say I found a workaround. I made the flag a 'tree' - a thin flat box in FSDS. Works every time! I think the answer to the non-rotate to user has to do with the fact that the flag you designed and me as well is not just a flat plane - like the 'tree' box, but I am not sure really.

    Wonder how I can get it to flutter in the wind?
    Last edited: 24/11/07
  17. arno

    arno Administrator Staff Member FSDevConf team Resource contributor

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    Hi John,

    I'll examine the MDL files, but just a few quick questions ahead:

    • Are you sure you placed the object with a heading of zero when you placed it? Else the rotation is not correct.
    • Which tool did you use the make the MDL? GMax or FSDS?
  18. warmingham

    warmingham

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    For Arno, I use FSDS as I have said. I use EZ-Scenery to place the objects.
    For a tree, for example, you know straight away that it is a successful tweak (using your MDL Tweaker) because even though it is finally placed with the heading '0', the small placement 'x' used by EZ-Scenery revolves and the tree stays where it is un-moving even before you click Ok or whatever. My original mdl was deleted. Perhaps John could upload the gmax or fsds file as well, if that would help?
  19. John Stinstrom

    John Stinstrom

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    For Arno, I am using FSDSv3 for the modelling. It is a pole with two opposed polys. The object was installed with EZ_Scenery and the rotation set to '0' degrees. Should I only use 3D objects for a model?

    For Warmingham, it should be possible to animate a flag. If you 'cut' it into 20 or so vertical sections and then animated each part with an 8 step side to side movement I imagine you would get acceptable results? As I am too lazy to do that I just took a picture. I can't seem to remove the black border though . . .
    Last edited: 9/4/08
  20. warmingham

    warmingham

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    Hi John, How strange, on my picture there doesn't seem to be black border, perhaps we are using different sources?
    However I did manage to find another flag that flutters in the wind(?) - but the question still remains how to incorporate it into fs9.
    Last edited: 24/11/07

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