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VC gauges disappear moving eyepoint...

Discussion in 'Modeling' started by Gypsy Baron, 1/3/08.

  1. Gypsy Baron

    Gypsy Baron

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    In the process of attempting to return to flying a
    Connie in FSX, I have been looking for one with
    a decent VC. I used to fly the FSDZigns L-049A until
    FSX made this an 'unrealistic experience' with the
    neutering of the 2D cockpit views, etc.

    In any case, I just discovered a C-121A download at
    Avsim that has an acceptable VC that appears to use
    'photo-real' textures for the VC that were derived from
    the FSDZigns ( and other ) connies.

    The problem I have run across in FSX, which I have not
    seen in any of my other FS9 'imports' is that at the
    'normal VC eyepoint', the main panel gauges are not
    visable. If I move the eyepoint back to where they
    become visable, I am behind the pilot or co-pilot
    seats.

    The strange thing is that several blocks of gauges
    in "Vcockpitxx" sections of the panel.cfg file are
    always visable throughout the useful eyepoint range.
    There are 9 "VCockpitxx" sections and the first 4
    are affected by this problem. The last 5 are not...those
    gauges are always visable.

    In the FS9 VC, at the default eyepoint, all gauges are
    visable but if I move my head forward about a foot using
    TracIR, the pilots and co-pilots panel gauhes begin to
    disappear.

    My question is what is causing this from the VC model
    standpoint? And is there anything short of contacting
    the original designer and asking him to make an 'adjustment'?
    And in that case, what would that 'adjustment' be?

    I did succesfully fly this Connie in FSX using a 'camera definition'
    that placed me betwen the two seats and about where I used
    to stand on occasion during landings of the C-121J's I crewed
    on in Viet Nam with VX-8 :) At that position for the eyepoint,
    all the gauges were visable but looking left or right I was
    just outside of the VC model ( I use TrackIR, incidentally ).


    This is the package I'm reffering to and would really like
    to be able to use it in FSX.

    File= lockheed_c121a.zip

    "Lockheed C-121A MATS Constellation Package for FS2004"
    "Aircraft Model and Textures By Darko Tralic"
    "Model has been designed using gMax 1.2"

    Attached are some screenshots taken in FS9 and FSX
    showing the problem.

    TIA for any help.

    Paul

    FSX VC - normal eyepoint - gauges not visable

    FSX_VC_1.jpg

    FSX VC - eyepoint moved back "0.70" and between seats

    FSX_VC_2.jpg

    The FS9 VC...normal on the left
    and eyepoint moved forward on the right
    FS9_VC.jpg
    Last edited: 1/3/08
  2. Waugh

    Waugh

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    If you were in the pilot's seat and you could not see instruments, you would turn your head, not move it to the right or back, etc.

    In other words, moving the eyepoint (the location of the pilot's eye "camera" relative to the model) is not the solution for your issue.

    This is what cameras and zoom is designed to do. Also, remember that the VC model might only have the parts visible from inside the cockpit, and hence positioning the eyepoint outside the normal position will result in you seeing things you should not see. Cameras do not have this problem because they use the external model.

    The view in the VC is going to need to be zoomed out for you to see more, but you will see less detail. You are not going to be able to see all the instruments in VC view without looking around. It seems you just need to zoom out a bit.

    Patrick
  3. n4gix

    n4gix Resource contributor

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    Patrick, did you look at the pictures? #1 shows the vc pilot's panel from the normal eyepoint position...

    ...clearly, it is the gauge polygons which are not being displayed at all... :eek:

    I hadn't replied simply because I couldn't think of any reason for this odd behavior.

    It is possible that somehow the normals on the gauge polys are being influenced by a parent part's poison though... :confused:

    OTOH, it may well be caused by some fault in the TrackIR software and/or configuration. Were it me, I'd eliminate TrackIR entirely during the investigation, so that it would be removed as a variable.
    Last edited: 5/3/08
  4. Gypsy Baron

    Gypsy Baron

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    Thanks for the input Patrick, and Bill, I was thinking you of anyone would have some insight on this.

    I did some tests after posting here, to gather data for an email I sent to the origina designer but have
    yet to get a response :(

    I fired up FS9 and used the eyepoint adjustment keyboard commands to move forward and back. I also
    did this in FSX. I obtained the same results as I observed with TrackIR 'head movement'.

    The thing that baffles me is that of the 9 "VCockpit" sections, 5 work just fine for all eyepoint values
    that I tried, while only the first 4 exhibited the problem of becoming invisable.

    Also, the differnce between FS9 default view with all gauges visable and FSX default with the
    'problem' gauges invisable is a bit of a mystery.

    In FS9 I have to move the eyepoint forward with 24 "CTL+BackSpace" entries for the gauges to begin to disappear.

    In FSX, I have to move the eyepoint BACK with 64 entries of "CTL+Enter" before the problem gauges begin to appear.

    When 'on the firnge', any orthangonal movement of the eyepoint/head position will show a line disecting
    the panel were gauges are partially visable. Thus the distance from the plane of the gauges
    definately is critcal for some reason.

    It's been several days sine I emailed the designer, who is in Croatia as best I can determine, but
    haven't gotten a reply or bounce message.

    If there were anothe Connie with a decent VC available I wouldn't be bothering with trying
    to find a solution, or at least a reason for this, alas, none seem to be visable on the horizon :(

    Paul

    FS9 default eyepoint moved forward...
    FS9_forward_sm.jpg

    FSX default eyepoint moved back, kooking diagonally...

    FSX_back_right_sm.jpg
    Last edited: 5/3/08
  5. Waugh

    Waugh

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    I just saw that the thumbnail looked normal, and didn't look at it, haha. Should have obviously.

    It looks like for some reason the z-order of the polys is so close that the order gets mixed up. I think the clipping-planes used between versions are probably different, and that is why they are displaying differently.

    Yeap have no clue.
    Last edited: 6/3/08
  6. n4gix

    n4gix Resource contributor

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    I feel your pain. Aside from the gauge display issue, that is a mighty nice looking Connie VC!
  7. gsnde

    gsnde

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    Paul,

    I have no idea what could cause the problem with the gauges. But have you seen the Constellation from High Flight Simulations?
  8. Gypsy Baron

    Gypsy Baron

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    Hi Martin. Thanks for the link. That Connie is a 're-work' of the FSDZigns L-049A Connie and doesn't have a VC.

    Having a good VC is essential in FSX when using TrackIR.

    Early on I ported the FSDZigns Connie over to FSX and made the necessary gauge adjustments,
    but without a VC I find I can't bring myself to use it in FSX :(

    I just saw a reply to some posts over at SimOutHouse that showed a screenie of a Connie for
    FSX that is in the works. Only exterior shot. I just hope it is being developed with a
    decent VC. In the meantime I'll just have to be content to flying the bird with the gauge
    problem whilst standing between the seats :)

    Paul ( gotta love the roar of 4 R-3350's.... )
    Last edited: 6/3/08
  9. gsnde

    gsnde

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    Paul,

    I have confused that Connie with the Abacus Payware which you probably know.

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