http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/resample-mesh-errors.441123/#post-782240
I suspect Dick and I both have seen these anomalies before in various terrain mesh and/or CVX vector projects with adjacent CVX vector objects (such as flattens or Hydro polygons that have an assigned elevation attribute
different than the underlying terrain mesh).
In my own experience, they often involve
gaps between adjacent sets of polygon vertices which result in anomalous spikes and/or pits in terrain mesh, where, AFAIK, the FS run time terrain rendering engine cannot form a proper continuous surface that is consistent with nearby elevation data points.
IMHO, preventing anomalous scenarios such as this may be one of the reasons why Luis Sa' provided a feature in SBuilderX to
copy vector polygon vertices in order to create a "
Hole".
If all vertices in such adjacent edges are
copied and pasted to form another vector object, they are kept in the same
exact Geographic location.
However, IIUC, the "winding direction" (aka clockwise versus counter-clockwise) must be reversed between the 2 overlapping sets of vertices.
Thus, with copying, pasting and reversing the sequence of vertices placed with sufficient "Bitness" of decimal place precision, one will be less likely to have tiny gaps in the areas between adjacent polygon vertex data sets in which the terrain rendering sub-system can get 'confused' about what to do within the short time frame that it is allowed input to the rendering engine loop for creating a surface on which to drape textures.
Thus, IIUC, when one uses
precisely aligned vector data points with adjacent CVX vector objects (such as flattens or Hydro polygons that have an assigned elevation attribute
different than the underlying terrain mesh), one may be less likely to see such anomalies of spikes and/or pits.
I hope these observations correlate with the experiences and ideas others also have on this troubleshooting subject.
GaryGB
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/resample-mesh-errors.441123/#post-782255
This opinion about Luis Sa and SBuilderX appears to be based on a mistaken assumption. Please detail exactly how to copy vector polygons in order to make a hole, that would be great.
As I have previously stated to others seeking a more comprehensive understanding of the complexities of the SDK, and how to work with the SDK via a GUI provided by a utility such as SBuilderX, I believe it would be best that you
first personally put in the time to work with SBuilderX, and read all of the built-in Help documentation in order to gain your
own insights.
FYI: I have valid reasons for my recommendations, and I do not always have time to explain them.
The basis for my reasons are ultimately self-evident to
anyone who does
not "Keep It Simple", and who instead puts in the time over years of self-study, and who also exercises "due diligence" by doing what IMHO 'proper' FS Development inevitably requires:
* Read the SDK documentation
* 'RTFM' for any 3rd party utilities
* Read any and all available pertinent info from FS-related web sites and online tutorials
* Learn how to use
ex: Google to more efficiently search for pertinent learning / troubleshooting info.
But, despite
anyone's past and present working knowledge base for FS development, there will IMHO, always be more to learn, and
everyone may find new insights over time that reveal where we may have been mistaken, or where we may have not been 'thinking outside the box' to allow for new applications of SDK methods to further innovate or troubleshoot.
It is important to remember that most of those here who have gained significant insights as a result of a long course of self-study are already rather busy; and while they may enjoy helping others with genuine troubleshooting issues, it is IMHO, not appropriate that they be called upon routinely as a means for others to avoid their fair share of required self study.
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/resample-mesh-errors.441123/#post-782255
Please explain and reference the meaning of the terms "bitness" and "winding direction," thanks.
Please read my reply immediately above,
and further
on ...within this post.
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/resample-mesh-errors.441123/#post-782255
In order to help us be on the same topic as to why someone might think that "holes" relate to terrain mesh, I'll refer to the 2007 document by Luis Sa titled "Terrain Design for Flight Simulator X." Hopefully we've learned something new in the 10 years since this well quoted document was published.
https://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fsxsd&DLID=141643
IMHO, "
This opinion about Luis Sa and SBuilderX appears to be based on a mistaken assumption", as I believe your post above illustrates the "
holes" in your assertion that there is a "2007 document by
Luis Sa titled "Terrain Design for Flight Simulator X" which, as the author states: "
explains the basic concepts in Flight Simulator X terrain, and how to change them using SBuilder for FS X."
In fact,
Luis Sa' actually
refers readers to that- and other- tutorials by
Luis Feliz-Tirado ...here:
http://www.ptsim.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1056&p=7507&sid=c0b121558d0f0558993381185f445e4c
"
File Description:
Terrain Design for Flight Simulator X
This simple illustrated document explains the basic concepts in Flight Simulator X terrain, and how to change them using SBuilder for FS X. Make new water bodies, roads, vehicle traffic, airport flattens, remove autogen, add more detail - anybody can do it easily and quickly.
My most sincere apologies - I am unable, for lack of free time, to offer support of any kind. For questions or problems, please post in the Avsim scenery design forum.
Filename: terrain_design_for_flight_simulator_x.zip
License: Freeware
Added: 14th December 2009, 13:29:15
Downloads: 16670
Author: Luis Feliz-Tirado
Size: 3991kb"
BTW: Those who read the
complete tutorial cited above will also see this explanation by the author:
"
VERY IMPORTANT: All Hydro Polygons (and Airport Flattens) must have an altitude value that defines their height. Generally, you can determine the height of terrain by slewing in FS X and using Dick Ludowise's TCalc X, or simply by loading the relevant altitude mesh in TMFViewer, pointing to the desired area, and reading the altitude value in the Status Bar. The default mesh file is in the same scenery folder as the default terrain scenery (the "cvx" file) and is called "demxxxx.bgl", with xxxx being the name of that folder, in this case, "dem0303.bgl".
Once you have determined the height of the location of the Hydro Polygon, right-click on the edge of the polygon and select "Set altitude...":
...and:
In the "Constant altitude" section, indicate the height in meters of the Hydro Polygon, click "OK", then click "Close". For sea-level water, the SBuilderX default value of 0 meters will be correct."
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/resample-mesh-errors.441123/#post-782255
What Luis has to say about holes:
"
The entire Flight Simulator world is made up of land. There is only water where a Hydro Polygon has been drawn. If you view any ocean or sea in TMFViewer, you will see that it is made of thousands (perhaps much more!) of Hydro Polygons covering the underlying land. A Hydro Polygon will always cover land, and will prevent it from displaying.
So, how to make an island in the midst of water? A Hydro Polygon can have one, or multiple, holes that let the underlying land show through. It is easy to make a hole - all you need to do is draw a polygon within the water and declare it as a hole;"
Please bear in mind that Luis used the term "draw a polygon," the only time the term "copy" appears in the quoted document is as a part of the larger word "copyrighted." Therefore, if there is no "copy," there would be no possibility of "all vertices in such adjacent edges are
copied and pasted to form another vector object, they are kept in the same
exact Geographic location." If there were, it would be a fantastic feature. If you could go into detail about it, how to perform it, etc, that would be phenomenal, but also; wouldn't I want the vertices that I had copied from a good geographic location, to not be kept at that location, but instead be placed at a geographic location for which there was only bad data?
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/resample-mesh-errors.441123/#post-782255
What Luis has to say about terrain:
"
Flattens
Problem: My new Airport Flatten creates a hole in the terrain.
Reason: Airport Flattens must have an altitude assigned to them, or SBuilderX will give them a default height of 0 meters.
Solution: Assign the correct height to the Flatten."
The term "hole" in the terrain represents a visual anomaly and should probably not be confused with the data "gaps" in terrain mesh, based on this information alone.
Thanks, I look forward to learning a new technique.
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/resample-mesh-errors.441123/#post-782240
In my own experience, they often involve
gaps between adjacent sets of polygon vertices which result in anomalous spikes and/or pits in terrain mesh, where, AFAIK, the FS run time terrain rendering engine cannot form a proper continuous surface that is consistent with nearby elevation data points.
Bearing in mind what I actually stated in my quoted text above, my comments here are pertinent to what happens when there are "
gaps between adjacent sets of polygon vertices" which
result in anomalous spikes and/or pits in terrain mesh
, where, AFAIK, the FS run time terrain rendering engine cannot form a proper continuous surface that is consistent with
"nearby elevation data points".
This should be construed as referring to the elevation required by the FS SDK to be assigned to vertices of any surrounding adjacent CVX vector Hydro polygons having an 'impact' (or a '
lack of impact')- on display of the local terrain
surface (whether textured as "Land" or "Water").
This may otherwise result from failure to properly process elevation data points of the replacement island terrain mesh at the outer edges of the island area, because the gaps between such adjacent CVX vector Hydro polygons:
* are
not able to "flatten" the terrain mesh via the assigned Hydro poly altitude of 0-Meters MSL
...and:
* are so large they exceed the FS run time terrain rendering "snap-to" distance between elevation data points, and thereby disrupt the ability to form a coherent terrain surface between the terrain elevation data points for the island mesh ...and the nearby "3D" CVX vector Hydro polygon vertex coordinate values.
AFAIK, the OP is attempting to create a replacement for an island which already exists in the default FS scenery.
In keeping with the methods described by both Luis Sa', Luis Feliz-Tirado, Dick, and numerous others in the FS development community, the OP 'should', IMHO, "exclude" the default CVX vector polygons for land and water in that local QMID-11 quad, then create a "hole" in the appropriate replacement CVX vector polygon(s) through which the replacement terrain mesh is allowed to be displayed for the island.
SBuilderX internally performs the steps pertinent to vertex coordinate positioning and 2D Geographic N-E-S-W or N-W-S-E sequencing (aka "winding order") as needed when holes are created provided the "Parent" and "Child" parameter values are correctly assigned via context menu option.
http://www.ptsim.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7126
https://www.google.com/search?q=SBu...10k1j0i131k1j0i13k1j0i7i10i30k1.0.8cQV1P7u94Y
The vertices for the "hole" in the CVX vector polygon may be copied and pasted back into the work-space to use for a CVX vector Land Class polygon to define a "Land" attribute on top of any otherwise underlying Water Class attribute.
The vertices for the "hole" in the CVX vector polygon may also be copied and pasted back into the work-space to use for a CVX vector shoreline (with- or without- shoreline-associated "wave" effects).
The vertices for the replacement CVX vector Hydro polygons that define the edges of the hole and water areas surrounding the island must be assigned a "global" (aka "constant") elevation of 0 Meters MSL, and when that is done, the resulting water polygon will function as a "
water flatten", provided the OP did
not purposely use a "
Legacy_LandWaterMask_Water_NoFlatten" attribute (...enabled via the "
Modified Terrain.Cfg" file):
// Legacy_LandWaterMask_Water_
NoFlatten
[Texture.381]
Name=Legacy_LandWaterMask_Water_
NoFlatten
Color=FF638AC2
guid={5835459A-4B8B-41F2-ADC1-DEE721573B28}
Textures=OCEAN_SEA_LARGE_LAKE_0
FlattenMode=
none
LandClassRemapType=none
ExcludeAutogen=Yes
RenderToTexture=Yes
RenderPriority=80000
Water=Yes
IIUC, this would eliminate the need to perform all the extra work in a GIS application which attempts to assign NO_DATA (aka "Missing_Data") attributes to certain points within the custom elevation source data intended for use with a properly configured INF submitted to SDK Resample ...to output a replacement terrain mesh BGL for that area.
[
EDITED]
The GIS application work-flow to resolve such terrain mesh source anomalies has been alluded to by Holger Sandmann in this thread:
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/fsx-mesh-help.3272/#post-20468
When instead working with CVX vector hydro polygons as a means for providing not only a
Water Class texture color, but also to act as a "
Water Flatten", AFAIK, other than instances where one is purposely using a "
Legacy_LandWaterMask_Water_NoFlatten" attribute, the FS default CVX vector attribute for a Water Polygon (aka "Water Poly or "Hydro" Poly) requires an assigned altitude in Meters MSL.
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc707102.aspx#TheShp2VecTool
Thus, proper use of SBuilderX to create a "Hole" in replacement CVX vector polygon objects to allow the replacement terrain mesh to be displayed, would result in any terrain mesh elevation data points surrounding the island cited in the OP above, to be "flattened" by the "
water flatten" attribute of "Hydro" polygons with vertices assigned global (aka "constant") elevations of 0-Meters MSL.
While it may require some searching to find more of the several other threads that I recall here at FSDeveloper.com which discuss these types of factors in the cause and prevention of such display anomalies, one of the most notable clarifications on this is the one that Dick (aka "rhumbaflappy" aka Richard Ludowise) has previously posted in a discussion thread ...here:
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/terrain-mesh-problem.425302/page-2#post-635084
[
END_EDIT]
However, we have not yet been provided with any additional information by the OP which might allow us to comment on the actual methods used, so my cited experience and observations should be regarded as what I originally intended it to be:
...well-intended information posted for
Braedon (aka "
Bungo") because he wanted to troubleshoot a scenario involving similar issues:
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/resample-mesh-errors.441123/#post-782236
Yes, please spill the beans on how you fixed it as I have the same issue with a mesh I am creating.
cheers
Braedon
I believe Dick already understands all this better than most others in the FS Community, so at best, reading my comments here might be an un-necessary 'review', if not an expenditure of time he could have spent pursuing other interests for greater personal satisfaction.
Perhaps the OP may also regard my cited experience and observations above as 'well-intended information' ...should he revisit this thread in the future ?
Again, I hope these observations correlate with the experiences and ideas others also have on this troubleshooting subject.
GaryGB