FSXA AI not departing parking spot

[raymk]

Having edited (with ADE) the FSX default NTAA (Tahiti) to suit my AI traffic (Traffic X and AIFP), I do my usual visit to the airport to watch the AI arrive and depart to check that all is well. As well as business and VFR traffic, I have a selection of Air Tahiti (A340 and ATR) plus a few other airliners scheduled to use the airport.

I usually have my FSX "Airport vehicle density" set to "High" which means that most but not all of the 'Gates' have the push-back tug and baggage vehicles positioned at the head of the parking spot - I like to see these in place and generally this seems to have worked OK for me. I also have a fuel truck which attends each aircraft when departure time arrives.

Also, most of my airliners including the A340's are set with 'type 1' "exits" (cargo doors) in their aircraft.cfg files - the ATR's do not have them.

Watching my AI depart, I found that whilst all ATR's departed without exception, only some of the A340's did depart as expected. It was only the A340's that were at spots that did not have the 'gate vehicles' were the ones which departed. If I changed my "Airport vehicle density" to "Maximum" then none of the A340's departed - changing it to "None" allowed all aircraft to depart as expected.

When an aircraft is due to depart, as well as "calling" the fuel truck to attend, any cargo doors open on the aircraft ready for the baggage vehicles to attend but, in the cases mentioned above, the fuel truck attends but the baggage vehicles don't budge and the aircraft just sits at the gate and just never moves.

As a check I used some default FSX aircraft and found the same mis-functions so the problem is not with the aircraft (as far as I can see).

Obviously I totally remade all of the parking spots and taxiways using ADE to see If I had gone astray in some way whilst doing my original editing even though I couldn't see how I could have got anything wrong since all aircraft left OK if the "Airport traffic density" was set to "None".

I also then tried a similar test at an unedited FSX airport (NZAA) where I found exactly the same thing except that, even though all parking Gates had the vehicle traffic, aircraft at some spots were able to depart and some would refuse to get beyond the 'opening cargo doors' stage.

So, even though I have come to the conclusion that this effect is not correctable using ADE, I am asking if anyone else has noticed a similar experience when editing or even using an airport? I would welcome any thoughts from ADE users out there.

One always get the feeling that I have changed a setting somewhere that is causing this but I have no idea where!

 

[glottis]

Ray
I had a similar issue many years ago with several airports, slightly different in the tug would move to push back but not connect (the little click you see when it connects to the aircraft) the tug would time out move back and the aircraft never moved, usually the MD-80
the only way i think it solved itself was move the parking spot around then reboot FSX and the aircraft departed, i put it down to a bug that appeared now and again with FSX, not had this happen for a long time
i take it the tug never moves, try moving the spot around and away from any buildings, a reboot always seemed to solve my problem for some reason, i often wondered if it was an aircraft issue
have you tried a different size spot so a different aircraft would now use it?

 

[raymk]

Hello Ray,
it has been suggested that I look at this link where discussions on this subject too place -

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/why-would-ai-a-c-not-leave-preflight.5321/

Lots of ideas but no firm conclusion - even from the late JV who was trying to get to the bottom of it.

Latest test #1 involved using an isolated airfield in the Pacific where there are only 2 Gate parking spots radius 18. I programmed an FSX B737-800 to depart. Set vehicle density to Max. Parking spots both had tugs and luggage vehicles. Almost no other traffic in the area. At departure time, cargo doors open on 737 and nothing else happens. Reduce density until vehicles disappear and aircraft departs.
Latest test #2 at NZAA. program 6 Air New Zealand aircraft to depart at 8 minute intervals - vehicle density set to Max. 3 out of the 6 depart - they all start from Gates some of which are near terminals, others away from buildings. Try moving spots where aircraft fail to move - no joy. Reset the same scenario so that aircraft sit at different spots. If aircraft is at a spot where previously there was a failure to move, then the aircraft sticks. Tried this several times with same results - so I am concluding that, for some reason, some spots in some positions just result in the aircraft not moving.

More tests to follow.

 

[robystar]

Maybe it is time you have another look at your flight plans?

 

[raymk]

Maybe it is time you have another look at your flight plans?

I welcome all suggestions but it would help me if you gave some ideas on what to look for in my flight plans that would cause this situation to occur.

The flight plans I use come from a mix of Traffic X and AIFP, both of which I have been using for many years.

 

[Pyscen]

Hello Ray,

The ones that leave compared to the ones that don't... is there a clearance issue or holding pattern in wait of the others to depart? How close to each other - the ones departing compared to the ones that are not? I'm sure you probably have looked at that aleady... just trying to wrap my head around the issue and in what could cause this.

Far fetched possibility, is there a limit of aircraft that can depart at a given interval of time?

 

[raymk]

I have just re-read the forum link that I posted above and I strongly recommend that if you are interested in this then you should also do so.

The original post was about exactly what I am currently noticing and after a few suggestions, Jim Vile came to conclusion that there was (and still is) an FSX problem whereby the 'call sequence' for departing aircraft sometimes 'seizes up'. He had a whole row of gates at EDDM where aircraft were liable to get stuck - I got a similar situation at NZAA where gates on one side of a terminal had problems where the gates on the other side always seemed to work. It is not always the same parking gates and is worst when Vehicle density is set to Max.
I have just set myself up as a spectator at Singapore airport (one of Ray Smith's fine versions) and watched arriving and departing airliners with a Max vehicle setting. About one-third of the airliners which have an 'exit type 1' in the aircraft.cfg file failed to depart - locking up at the cargo doors opening stage. I watched for about 90 minutes and was left with quite a few airliners at the 'Preflight' stage. At this point I reduced the Vehicle density down - stage-by-stage - and this 'released' all of the 'stuck' aircraft.
Incidentally, I also noticed that some arriving aircraft stuck at the 'Postflight' stage and thus not being re-listed as a departing aircraft lower down the listings. This was also 'corrected by the reduction in vehicle density.
There were always plenty of gates available for aircraft to arrive and depart so I don't see any problems caused by too high a density of aircraft traffic.

So, going by the earlier forum discussion plus my own testing, I am pretty sure it is an FSX glitch that causing my issues thus agreeing with Jim Vile's conclusions. It sounds as if he was hoping to get Microsoft to have a look at this but this obviously never came about. There is nothing one can do in ADE that stops this situation occurring.

So not a serious problem most of the time. I can do some or all of the following -
- reduce my vehicle density to a lower level
- remove the cargo exit lines in the aircraft.cfg files
- assign Ramps as well as Gates to some aircraft and use Ramps at positions where the aircraft refuse to leave
or, of course, just accept what is happening.

 

[robystar]

Been working on this as well but I cannot find any problems in P3Dv4 (sorry FSX has become obsolete for me) unless you consider the fact that the pushback truck in the default airport stops, reverses and nothing happens until there is another truck coming alongside and leaves.
Once that one has gone the AI ATR/A340 leave (flight plans and AI only of/by AIGM).
Hence my question about flight plans made by AIFP (I am using the default P3Dv4 airport).

 

[tgibson]

Perhaps load the default FSX flight, then go to an airport and check it out. Don't load any saved flight during your testing.

 

[raymk]

Roby,
I was wondering whether P3D suffered any similar problems - it seems that they may have been eliminated. I doubt if I am ever going to jump up to P3D myself at this stage in my flightsim experience.

Tom,
if your suggestion was aimed at me, can you expand on what you are suggesting please?

 

[tgibson]

Hi,

Yes, it was aimed at you.

1. Flights/Load/All Categories/Over Puget Sound.
2. If there is no Over Puget Sound listed, quit FSX, open your fsx.cfg file, and remove everything from the situation= line so it looks like:

SITUATION=

then save the file. Restart FSX and it should load the default flight.

3. World/Go To Airport - choose the airport of your choice.
4. Change the time if needed, and check out if the problem still exists.

 

[raymk]

Tom,
thanks for the explanation. I assume that your reasoning is to do with loading FSX into the "default" settings status prior to transferring to another airfield? If so, this would suggest that the files "fltsim.flt" and "fltsim.wx" in '\Flights\Other' contain settings info that are going to different to what I am usually getting when I load flights in my usual way. I had to use your suggestion SITUATION= in the cfg file to get that "Ultralight over Puget Sound" flight to appear.
An interesting possibility.
Have done a quick test at one of my test airports (EDDM where JV had found a whole row of gates where cargo-door-equipped airliners would never depart) where I also found the same situation. A 10 minute test looked like aircraft were departing from the previously errant gates but, in the meantime, I had tweaked these gates in ADE (changed position slightly and changed rotation), so I am not yet sure which change has made a difference.
I will look at another of my test airports again - loading by my normal method and then using your suggestion - and see what happens.

 

[raymk]

Tom,
BEFORE changing my Situation = setting (it is set to a saved flight of mine), I set up at WSSS (airport vehicle density set to MAX) and 'watched' departing and arriving aircraft for about 90 minutes. At the end of this period I had 8 departing aircraft (all of which have cargo doors) which had become stuck at the Gates at the "Preflight support" stage. I also had another 8 aircraft which after landing had stuck at the "Postflight support" stage. No non-cargo door aircraft got stuck.
I repeated the same test (same day and time settings in order to monitor the same set of aircraft) and got a very similar list of Gates where aircraft had got stuck at the "Preflight support" stage plus a similar set of Gates where arriving aircraft had got stuck at the "Postflight support" stage.
I changed my Situation = as per your suggestion (Ultralight over Puget Sound is default offering). Changed to WSSS at the same day/time to previous tests. Over the same period I only got 3 Gates where aircraft got stuck - these were all the same type of aircraft - Traffic X B777 which does not have cargo doors so this may be a slightly different problem. Other B777's had left other Gates so aircraft itself is not a problem.

So your suggestion seems to go a long way to solving this particular situation. I cannot see anything in the .FLT file (and I have no idea what is in the .WX file that goes with it) but something here is affecting the way FSX is handling aircraft with cargo doors at Gates.

Just to be sure, I will do a similar test at a different airport and see what transpires.

EDIT
Just tweaked the Gates where the 777 aircraft were not 'happy' and now seem to be behaving as required.

 

[tgibson]

Glad we at least solved the problem, even though we don't know why.

 

[raymk]

Tom,

is there something in your years of FSX experience that caused you to make your suggestion?

EDIT
Completed another set of tests at EDDM (as this is where Jim Vile described having problems with complete rows of Gates).

Using my 'Save flights' situation, set up at EDDM and monitored Gate usage. After 45 minutes, I had over 20 Gates where aircraft were not departing. 2 rows of Gates in particular were giving the problem - see image. This is a busy airport and a load of the other Gates performed as required in this same period.



Reverting to the 'Default flight' situation in fsx.cfg, I started FSX but did not load the default flight but just changed the aircraft, weather and location as required. Repeated the same time period and had no stuck aircraft.

So the moral is - be careful when creating an alternative Saved Default Flight. I cannot explain what is causing this but this seems to be the solution.

Thanks Tom. Not so much but now .

 

[tgibson]

Nothing specific, but I've seen reloading the default flight fix so many problems over the years (dozens) it's something I always try. I use Previous Flight for my default flight and find I need to load the FS Default Flight about once a year and start over once odd things begin happening.