Adding AI aircraft in ADE over exclude areas for P3DV5.4.

[Butch1]

I was trying to add AI aircraft to an area of a scenery airport that is marked as excluded.
I can add an AI aircraft in an exclude area, but when I try to click on the AI aircraft to position it,
the exclude color goes to a dark yellow and I cannot see where the AI aircraft is.

What is the proper procedure(s) to add AI aircraft to an area that is excluded?

Thanks.

 

[Butch1]

If the area that has an exclusion is deleted, then I can add static AI aircraft; But then, when I click on the exclusion and redraw the area if I choose library objects and compile my static aircraft disappear.
If after drawing the exclusion area and I uncheck library objects, the static aircraft will appear but then so will the bleed thru of the P3DV5 library objects which results in areas of stock P3D hangers
merging with hanger buildings (objects) of replacement hangers which look different.
Now, If I position the airport (like I want it) in ADE and then select the yellow exclude it will move the position of the airport in such a way that drawing an exclusion area will not easily capture what I want excluded.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Butch:

To help with FSDEV thread topic indexing, and to elicit replies from P3D users, please edit your posts to add the Prefix "P3D v5" to your thread.


If you tell us which "stock" airport you are working with in ADE, or if you attach the saved custom *.AD4 project file, we can better assist you.


IIUC, you do not wish to program actual AI Traffic aircraft to remain static at the airport for the (IIRC) allowed 1 week duration before a flight ?

If so, you may have to edit the Exclusion Rectangle(s) to avoid overlapping Scenery Library Object placement Reference Points for the static aircraft.


Make at least (1) backup of your project *.AD4 file, then open your airport of interest in ADE to edit the Exclusion Rectangle(s).

You should be able to delete Exclusion Rectangle(s) if too big, and replace with multiple smaller Exclusion Rectangles allowing placement of static aircraft.

Although ADE was not extensively tested with P3Dv5, I am fairly certain the basic functionality described above should still work with ADE_v.179x.

GaryGB

 

[Butch1]

This was originally an FSX scenery for (KMTN) Martin state airport that was upgraded to work in P3DV5.4
Due to the vast exclusions to the airport scenery, I am unable to add static aircraft to any of the green circle park areas that are excluded with any success.
In ADE,if I uncheck the any of the excluded areas that have parking, I can add static aircraft but it is a catch 22 AFAIK in that static aircraft
are also considered library objects and if I exclude them then, they will not show in P3DV5.4
I did not save attached ad4 file, I did was attach the airport bgl with the added bleed thru exclusion.

To sum it up, in ADE with exclusions turned off, I can attach ai aircraft using static adex library. With exclusions ON then all library objects (including static aircraft) are not shown.
Looking for a way to add static aircraft where parking areas are in excluded areas.


This was before I added an exclude to eliminate stock bleed thru from P3D V5.4

Ground view with bleed thru removed

Top

Overhead view showing bleed thru area

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Butch:

First try to re-size the existing over-sized Exclusion Rectangles, then place multiple other smaller ones as needed to eradicate unwanted objects.

Zoom in on the corner of a selected Exclusion Rectangle until you see the vertex point, grab it with the LMB, and drag it to re-size the Rectangle.


As for 'clearing the field' to allow placing static aircraft in parking areas, are you "Prepar3D" to place multiple small Exclusion Rectangles ?


IIUC, you are adding LM's Hangar at KMTN.

By extracting / inspecting the default P3D AB FLX Polygon, we find the (only ?) issue 'may' be that the LM Hangar is not included within its extents.

Are you "Prepar3D" to edit the Appended AB FLX Polygon in SBuilderX, or instead to 're-create' it in ADE, then edit it, to fix this ?


IIUC, LM's Hangar in default FS scenery is "outside KMTN airfield", and you are getting a 'pop-up' (Autogen ?) building bleed-through in front of it.


I'll need to see if I can reproduce the 'pop-up' building bleed-through to confirm it is Autogen or instead placed by / from a local *.OBX file.

If the latter is from a local *.OBX, it is indeed a Scenery Library Object that calls for use of multiple "micro-excludes" as Scruffyduck calls them.


If it is Autogen, IIRC, P3D has the same rules for Exclusion Rectangles as FSX, in that they exclude "default" Autogen, but not custom Autogen.

If we find the unwanted 'pop-up' building bleed-through is a "custom" Autogen building, we can use a CVX vector Terrain Exclusion Polygon.



If it is not using custom photo-real aerial imagery, we will need to see if a Airport Boundary / Background type is used that 'allows' Autogen display.


That would normally not be the type used at an airport when a Airport Boundary / Background Flatten is made.

The "normal" Airport Boundary / Background type used is the 3-attribute GUID: Flatten, MaskClassMap, Exclude (default) Autogen:

Airport_Backgrounds_Flatten_MaskClassMap_ExcludeAutoGen {46BFB3BD-CE68-418E-8112-FEBA17428ACE}

https://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv6/sdk/world/terrain/vector_shape_properties_guids.html

But, in fact, by inspecting the default P3D AB CVX Polygon, we find the (only ?) issue may be that the LM Hangar is not included within its extents.

So, we must look to see if a CVX Vector "Exclude" has pre-empted the default P3D AB CVX Polygon.



Please tell us which KMTN FSX add-on this is derived from (there seem to be 3 available; I suspect this is Tom Neubauer's version, but not sure).

https://simviation.com/1/browse-All+Files-8-1403

https://dl.simviation.com/download/...KMTN.zip&sessionId=2la9umd8ki09mc9nn5o18f6cj3


Please tell us where we can download this FSX add-on to confirm which type of 'pop-up' building bleed-through is to be dealt with.

Also, please tell us if this add-on in its current state, is using custom photo-real aerial imagery.


GaryGB

 

[Butch1]

Please tell us which KMTN FSX add-on this is derived from (there seem to be 3 available; I suspect this is Tom Neubauer's version, but not sure).

https://simviation.com/1/browse-All+Files-8-1403

https://dl.simviation.com/download/...KMTN.zip&sessionId=2la9umd8ki09mc9nn5o18f6cj3




https://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv6/sdk/world/terrain/vector_shape_properties_guids.html

GaryGB

It was originally done for FSX by Tom Neubauer.
It was converted to P3Dv5 by a Dan "blaunarwal" anyway I got this from his site here he does not answer my comms
It looks like he over looked adding another exclude (as I noted) but on his site he shows the airport with static aircraft.

 

[GaryGB]

It was originally done for FSX by Tom Neubauer.
It was converted to P3Dv5 by a Dan "blaunarwal" anyway I got this from his site here he does not answer my comms
It looks like he over looked adding another exclude (as I noted) but on his site he shows the airport with static aircraft.

OK, I have Dan's version cited above; like your ADE file set, it does not provide an updated AB Polygon, so the LM Hangar is outside KMTN default AB.

Before doing / testing anything else, we may first assume the pop-up is Autogen, as LM's Hangar is not covered by P3D's 3-Attribute AB Polygon.


So, IMHO, you need to make an edited version of that CVX Vector AB Polygon (aka "ABP") to include LM's Hangar within the airfield bounds.

And IMHO, that is easier to do in SBuilderX with an Appended extracted SHP file from the default CVX2718.BGL, than to re-create it in ADE.


Which would you prefer to do ?

GaryGB

 

[Butch1]

OK, I have Dan's version cited above; like your ADE file set, it does not provide an updated AB Polygon, so the LM Hangar is outside KMTN default AB.

Before doing / testing anything else, we may first assume the pop-up is Autogen, as LM's Hangar is not covered by P3D's 3-Attribute AB Polygon.


So, IMHO, you need to make an edited version of that CVX Vector AB Polygon (aka "ABP") to include LM's Hangar within the airfield bounds.

And IMHO, that is easier to do in SBuilderX with an Appended extracted SHP file from the default CVX2718.BGL, than to re-create it in ADE.


Which would you prefer to do ?

GaryGB

At 80 years old, this Navy Viet Nam vet (old dog) doesn't want to get into yet another program (Sketchup). I had cataract surgery last year and I cannot spent too much time
in front of monitors as it will tire my old eyes. A little time yes but not hour after hour. Perhaps take breaks you say maybe yes, but my lifestyle is involved with attention to other things.
I did resize the exclusion areas and that allowed me to place static aircraft and I can not see them in P3D. I want to deleted them and add A-10's as this was base for them
and now they are headed for the boneyard.
Now I noticed that there are F35's parked near some mini hangers and I don't see them in ADE. So how did they get there?
I looked at the files for anything that I would suspect to aircraft bgls and did not see any. So is the sketchup you speak of doing this or what?

 

[Butch1]

Update.....
I loaded this airport in P3DV4.5 and noticed the original author did not place those mini hanger with F35's; he used F22's with no mini hangers. And populated the field with other military and civilian static aircraft.
Dan added the mini hangers with F35's. Naturally, no bleed thru issues with P3DV4.5

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Butch:

It is true that I am often posting about potential uses for the 3D modeling application called Sketchup.

However, I must clarify my reference above to a labor-saving method to edit the default P3D ABP was to SBuilderX.


I already extracted the ABP from CVX2178.BGL as an ESRI Shapefile in a FLX2718.SHP file that was Appended to SBuilderX to make a screenshot.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/a...extents_do_not_include_lm_hangar-1-jpg.97913/


I have to find an easier way to port that ABP source code into ADE to do this very often, but I 'may' attempt doing so manually as an example here.

That would make it easier to edit the ABP within ADE which you seem to be familiar with ...rather than learning how to use SBuilderX.


Because ADE seems to have by "Design" blocked most ways to Import / Export source data for scenery, one must be certain to always save an *.AD4.

Otherwise one will lose source code for CVX Vectors used in making ABPs and other parts of an airport, which is compiled by SDK SHP2VEC.


ADE primarily works with AFD data in XML, which is compiled by SDK BGLComp.


I am not certain as to why you see no "bleed-thru" issues in P3Dv4.5 compared to P3Dv5.

I suspect that the P3Dv5 ABP is the same as in P3Dv4.5, which if that is true, would suggest something is loaded in P3Dv5 that is not in P3Dv4.5.


I'll take another look today at the add-on in question within P3Dv4.5 to see what I see (with cataracts that started in my case when I was in my 40's).

You might be surprised as to how many here at FSDEV- and in the FS Community- are actually over age 70; only a few here have listed their age.


If the pop-ups are placed Scenery Library Objects that do not appear in ADE, that means they were placed by one of the non-ADE compiled BGLs.

Those are no problem to deal with, as we can just step through BGLs containing both placement and 3D models using MCX ...and remove them.


Please list what you want to eradicate at KMTN so I can see where those objects load from, and ID how best to Exclude them from placement there.

Also, please list what aircraft you do not want to eradicate in Dan's P3Dv5 build of KMTN.

It would be helpful if you would list them by coordinates and/or show a screenshot circled in MS-Windows Paint for greater certainty on my part.


PS: Do you also have FSX installed ?


GaryGB

 

[Butch1]

Kinda young at 40 for cataracts but I guess it is what it is.......

Anyhow......

P3Dv5 scenery is incompatible with P3Dv4 because P3Dv5 introduced new file formats, updated code, and different architectural changes that P3Dv4's engine cannot process. P3Dv5 also features changes to how XML add-ons are handled, and sceneries compiled with the v5 SDK contain elements that the v4 compiler doesn't understand. Therefore, you must use sceneries specifically designed for P3Dv4 or P3Dv5; v4 sceneries will not work in v5, and v5 sceneries will not work in v4.
Technical Reasons for Incompatibility

SDK and File Format Changes:
The Software Development Kit (SDK) used to create scenery was updated between v4 and v5, resulting in new file formats and structures that v4 cannot read.

Code and Engine Differences:
P3Dv5 has undergone significant architectural and code changes, making older scenery files incompatible. For example, the code used in XML add-ons for v5 might contain elements that the v4 compiler won't recognize.
Library Management:
P3D's layered world and library system are complex. P3Dv5 introduced new methods for handling scenery libraries, and v4 cannot correctly process these new structures.

Practical Implications

Use Version-Specific Files:
You cannot use the same set of files for both simulators. You must download and install the version of the scenery that is specifically designed for either P3Dv4 or P3Dv5.

Bleed with P3Dv5 (Prepar3D v5) occurs when objects from the default scenery, like buildings or trees, appear or "bleed through" custom, add-on airports
. This happens because the custom and default scenery are not properly excluding each other, causing both to be drawn at the same location.

Causes

• Incompatible scenery files: Add-on airport scenery designed for older versions of Prepar3D (like P3D v3 or v4) may not correctly interact with the updated P3D v5.3 engine. For example, a custom airport might not correctly override the stock airport objects.
• Default objects not excluded: Airport scenery add-ons are supposed to include files that exclude or flatten the default Prepar3D objects in that area. If this exclusion is missing or doesn't work correctly, the default scenery will show up along with the custom objects.
• Layering issues: The scenery library's layer order can cause conflicts. For a custom airport to display correctly, it must have a higher priority (be placed higher up) than the default scenery files that it is meant to replace.
• Electronic Arts (EA) scenery bleeding: Some Prepar3D v5 users have noted issues with "EA" or Enhanced Atmospherics scenery bleeding through add-on objects. This is a compatibility problem where the enhanced rendering is drawing over the custom scenery.

Thanks be to google AI.......

 

[Butch1]

I will give you additional info you requested shortly.

Here is my AD4 I did earlier today... (P3DV5.4) BTW, it looks like Dan added the F35's and the mini hangers for the F35's whereas the original did not use the mini hangers nor the F35's (he used F22 Raptors.)
Dan must of used some library objects (mini hangers) from his library or I would think he did.

 

[Butch1]

Here are some screen grabs from the original and Dans KMTN. When I added Dan's origianl bgl, the F35's were gone. I don't know why.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi again:

Looks like you excluded the Scenery Library Object(s) by the LM Hangar OK, but notice the persistent Trees (very likely "Autogen").

Notice as well that the options in the dialog for things to be excluded by a SDK BGLComp Exclusion Rectangle ...do not list "Autogen".

Excluding Autogen (especially 'custom' Autogen placed on custom photo-real land class textures) requires a "Terrain Polygon" (Green Poly icon).

In ADE at the LM Hangar, you could make a small local "Terrain Polygon" with an "Exclude Autogen" attribute instead of editing the ABP to include it.

GaryGB

 

[Butch1]

Hi again:

Looks like you excluded the Scenery Library Object(s) by the LM Hangar OK, but notice the persistent Trees (very likely "Autogen").

Notice as well that the options in the dialog for things to be excluded by a SDK BGLComp Exclusion Rectangle ...do not list "Autogen".


Excluding Autogen (especially 'custom' Autogen placed on custom photo-real land class textures) requires a "Terrain Polygon" (Green Poly icon).

In ADE at the LM Hangar, you could make a small local "Terrain Polygon" with an "Exclude Autogen" attribute instead of editing the ABP to include it.

View attachment 97931

GaryGB

"In ADE at the LM Hangar, you could make a small local "Terrain Polygon" with an "Exclude Autogen" attribute instead of editing the ABP to include it."

I had to read and reread (so as to soak in) what all this means.

I sorta remember using the green button and remember that drawing the lines (in my experience) was tricky as getting the lines to lay out properly
i.e draw a square, I would lay out the first line and when I tried to draw the next line the thing would get jumbled up and I did not end with a square image.

So where do I draw the poly square for this particular Bgl and then what's next and what is the desired outcome?

I've seen this green terrain Poly" button in ADE Using google AI I read that I am to draw the click points ---- Where?

After drawing the poly lines, am I suppose to auto see this properties option? Then select what?

I am still amazed at how there was F35's parked by those mini hanger and when I used Dan's BGL they were gone.

On his site you may of noticed he used A-10's so he was able to add his static aircraft somehow and still make exclusion here and there on the overhead view in ADE.

Sorry I am a bit slow but I do appreciate you patience.

Butch

 

[Butch1]

Found one other area that has a bleed thru and using exclude does not fix it.

 

[GaryGB]

"In ADE at the LM Hangar, you could make a small local "Terrain Polygon" with an "Exclude Autogen" attribute instead of editing the ABP to include it."

I had to read and reread (so as to soak in) what all this means.

I sorta remember using the green button and remember that drawing the lines (in my experience) was tricky as getting the lines to lay out properly
i.e draw a square, I would lay out the first line and when I tried to draw the next line the thing would get jumbled up and I did not end with a square image.

So where do I draw the poly square for this particular Bgl and then what's next and what is the desired outcome?

I've seen this green terrain Poly" button in ADE Using google AI I read that I am to draw the click points ---- Where?

After drawing the poly lines, am I suppose to auto see this properties option? Then select what?

Please examine this edited screenshot in which I show the example Terrain Polygon to Exclude Autogen that I placed at the LM Hangar.

Notice the Orange thin Polygon that I drew surrounding the LM Hangar area (it is a CVX polygon and must not be a BGLComp Exclusion Rectangle).

I am still amazed at how there was F35's parked by those mini hanger and when I used Dan's BGL they were gone.

On his site you may have noticed he used A-10's so he was able to add his static aircraft somehow and still make exclusion here and there on the overhead view in ADE.

Are you saying that Tom Neubauer's version originally had F35's placed at KMTN, and Dan had "Excluded" them ?

If so, IIUC, Dan placed some Exclusion Rectangles that had "All" options checked, to 'Exclude All' ...including Scenery Library Objects (F35's).

He did it with large Exclusion Rectangles; we can scale those down, and add numerous smaller ones (they only need to surround an object "base").

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Found one other area that has a bleed thru and using exclude does not fix it.

The top-down image has no coordinates showing, but these objects are not seen in my P3Dv4 load of your edited KMTN.

The same is true of the objects in the other image which does how coordinates: they are not present in my P3Dv4 run time render.


Generally speaking if Trees show, exclude them with a Terrain Polygon set to Exclude Autogen.

And if Buildings show, exclude them with a Exclusion Rectangle (Yellow Rectangle Icon) set to exclude Scenery Library Objects


GaryGB