Airport Location Change

[canuck21a]

Hi,
I am trying out this program to help deal with differences between FS9 and FSX airports where the location and some details about the airport and runway are different.

We have group flights with mixed FS9 and FSX so it is best to have the runway in the same place and orientation.

The airport I chose to try is HSGF. I noted the differences between FS9 and FSX and then using this program I manually changed the airport reference Lat/Lon to match that for the FS9 version as seen in AFCAD. I also moved the Runway to match what it shows in FS9 and made the runway concrete as opposed to dirt.

I ran into a problem with the complier on my Vista 32 system with is complaining about not being able to find the file. I gave up on that for now and used the BGLCompX that I have been using from another source. It seemed to accept the xml file and compiler with warnings about the location being different

I updated FSX scenery to have this new location at the top of the scenery heap and then moved the aircraft from the default FSX start for Rwy 5 to the new location. I then grabbed a screenie of the FSNav view of the new location from a running FS9 system that had FSHost up.

The problem that I am having first is how to get the scenery to not display auto-gen on the runway or for some area around it.

Perhaps someone might be able to give me a clue as to how this might be done.

Also any help with the compile error would be appreciated.

Screen of FSNav when moved to the new FSX runway...

Screen of FSX showing black line where default FSX runway is...

Screens of the compile error.....

 

[José]

Moving an airport in FSX

Hi,

To move an airport implies more than drag and drop the runway to another location.

You need to exclude the default terrain and also the airport data, with two different files. Then, you should create a new terrain for the new position and a new airport data. Again, you need two different files for that.

To modify the terrain (exclude the defaul and create the new) you can use SBuilder for FSX (available at: http://www.ptsim.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=915) or FSX_KML, on this forum.

To exclude and create the new airport data you can use SDE to get the default data, and ADE to edit the airport position. For that last work, there is another tool, FSX_Planner, all available on this forum.

It's important to know the correct position and orientation for your airport. You can make a search on the net and use GE to get an image for the airport location.

Kind regards,

José

 

[canuck21a]

Thanks Jose, but the toolbar would not install on my Vista system. I have never used sbuilder before so I am a bit lost with it.

I will leave a wish for FSX Planner to have the ability to add in an exclude autogen polygon or something like that to help with my issues. Perhaps flatten too would help if the mesh is not quite ok for the area.

So far FSX Planner did a very good job of what I was trying to do save for the veggies on the runway. When the pgm has teh ability to add navaids then I will almost be set.

 

[José]

Hi, Canuck

Thanks Jose, but the toolbar would not install on my Vista system. I have never used sbuilder before so I am a bit lost with it.

I will leave a wish for FSX Planner to have the ability to add in an exclude autogen polygon or something like that to help with my issues. Perhaps flatten too would help if the mesh is not quite ok for the area.

So far FSX Planner did a very good job of what I was trying to do save for the veggies on the runway. When the pgm has teh ability to add navaids then I will almost be set.

We need two different bgl because they are compiled with two different FSX SDK compilers. They cannot be together. That is why we should learn to use two different programs.

If you refer to Manifold toolbar not working with Vista system, goto manifold website and look for a compatible DLL with that new system.

The new place need a polygon for flattening and also to exclude autogen. If you read the FSX SDK you will understand it better than I can explain.

The GE image for you area is not a good one in Google Earth, so its difficult to "move" the airport, unless you have an airport chart or a more detailed georeferenced image.

Regards,

José

 

[rf360m]

The airport I chose to try is HSGF. I noted the differences between FS9 and FSX and then using this program I manually changed the airport reference Lat/Lon to match that for the FS9 version as seen in AFCAD. I also moved the Runway to match what it shows in FS9 and made the runway concrete as opposed to dirt.

The best way to move an entire airport is to use the Move Airport feature located under the Edit menu. This allows you to specify the new airport center and then moves the entire airport to that new location. You may still need to tweak things a bit if the relationship to the airport center also need to change.

I ran into a problem with the complier on my Vista 32 system with is complaining about not being able to find the file. I gave up on that for now and used the BGLCompX that I have been using from another source. It seemed to accept the xml file and compiler with warnings about the location being different

When using Vista the default desitnation location of the new bgl file is within the Program File directory. Unfortunately Vista does not allow a program to modify this directory. That is what is causing the file not found error. We need to fix this issue, probably by using a different location for the default destination directory, such as the user's home directory.

 

[rf360m]

Thanks Jose, but the toolbar would not install on my Vista system. I have never used sbuilder before so I am a bit lost with it.

I will leave a wish for FSX Planner to have the ability to add in an exclude autogen polygon or something like that to help with my issues. Perhaps flatten too would help if the mesh is not quite ok for the area.

So far FSX Planner did a very good job of what I was trying to do save for the veggies on the runway. When the pgm has teh ability to add navaids then I will almost be set.

We may look into including exclude polygons in the future. But that wouldn't be until after the first final release (so a future version).

-Russell

 

[José]

Moving an airport in FSX

Hi Russel

The best way to move an entire airport is to use the Move Airport feature located under the Edit menu. This allows you to specify the new airport center and then moves the entire airport to that new location. You may still need to tweak things a bit if the relationship to the airport center also need to change.

Moving an FS default airport is not that easy. You are moving a problem, only.

The old airport will remain and the area to where you are moving could not be flatten or/and the autogen was not excluded. This is not done with files compiled with bglcomp.

The point method can work to move a few meters from the original position, but this is not the present and the most cases we find to solve.

Kind regards,

José

 

[scruffyduck]

Also be aware that moving an airport can screw up the approach data very badly. In truth is is extremely risky to just move a whole airport unless either:

You know there are no dependencies in surrounding Naviads (bearing in mind that some airport that are close together geographically can share navaids in some situations)

You know that there are no approaches associated with the airport or

You are happy and confident to re-write the approach codes.

 

[canuck21a]

Thanks very much to all of you for your replies and comments.

I shall seriously consider what Jose and ScruffyDuck have stated and I am very happy that the author of FSX Planner has noticed my wish.

The implications of moving an urban airport with navaids and approaches will make for interesting study.

For my purposes the types of situations that I am more likely to address are those where a rural of out of the way lesser airstrip where, for our enjoyment, our happy little group is prepared to see a change to the runway type, additions of a couple of simple navaids, maybe some taxiways and the addition of those FSX objects that make visiting interesting (like birds etc.) When the FS9 and FSX runways are geographically the same then the process is quite simple and relatively quick to do with the tools available now.

I know that it may not be everyones cup of tea but having the existing FSX runway still there is not a problem for us VFR types as we simply consider them the "old" runways that we can use if necessary.

Perhaps as you read this you might come to consider what I am trying to do as "lite" in terms of what all of the programs can do. That is very true as I like many may well only wish to use the tools to accentuate what is already there as opposed to total replacements.

Once again,
Many thanks to all of you for replying to my little problem. I am learning from all of you.

 

[pierrot1951]

Hello

I think I have now a rather "clean" method to change position / elevation of a simple default FSX airport (no approch, ils, ...), with(out) refueling facilities.

Tools: SDE - XSBuilder - Afcad - bglcomp (not using ADE presently)
Notepad++ as editor; JAB_FSX for convenient coordinates gathering (all free)

No changes in default APX... files; example with FMNH (0704 base)

1/ decompile APX file with SDE; save the concerned apt section as xml
2/ create a small xml file with just Airport identification (default data) and a delete airport section; compile directly in bglcomp as exc_FMNH.xml, that will be copied in the same base folder as APX (i.e.: 0704\scenery).
3/ with XSBuilder:
create a polygon tagged with Exclude_all_airport_boundaries to erase the default airport relief (surrounding; maybe it just needs to intersect the area)
create polygons for new airport:
- one tagged with irport_backgrounds_flatten_maskclassmap_excludeautogen
- one closer to runways, aprons, ... tagged with LandClassPoly_Grass_skirting_2

In the same time, you may create other polys for LC (city, forest, ...) or lines for road or river changes.
Compile all together in a cvx_FMNH.bgl file

4/ in afcad (now, it will be soon more convenient with new tools)
open the fs9 default airport FMNH; save as AF2_FMNH.bgl; make all changes, save as AF2, and a copy as AFX.
Keep the AF2 in FS9 format for next changes in afacd.
Open the AFX in SDE; eventually edit xml for object / trigger exclusions, new refuelling post / new trigger placing; then recompile in FSX format (AFX_FMNH.bgl can't be open in afcad)

5/ Install cvx + afx in the FMNH scenery folder

6/ Now, you may add scenery bgl in same folder for airport 3D scenery

>>> Many of those steps will be easier with ADE or FSX_Planner tools (it will no more need to keep a FS9 model for afcad).

Only remaining problem: in FS!Discover, old and new airport infos are displayed; I've been answered by FS!Discover that it can't yet take delete infos in consideration.

Thanks to all answers and help, especially from José!
Pierrot - FMEP

Pierrot - FMEP

 

[rf360m]

Hello

I think I have now a rather "clean" method to change position / elevation of a simple default FSX airport (no approch, ils, ...), with(out) refueling facilities.

Tools: SDE - XSBuilder - Afcad - bglcomp (not using ADE presently)
Notepad++ as editor; JAB_FSX for convenient coordinates gathering (all free)

No changes in default APX... files; example with FMNH (0704 base)

1/ decompile APX file with SDE; save the concerned apt section as xml
2/ create a small xml file with just Airport identification (default data) and a delete airport section; compile directly in bglcomp as exc_FMNH.xml, that will be copied in the same base folder as APX (i.e.: 0704\scenery).
3/ with XSBuilder:
create a polygon tagged with Exclude_all_airport_boundaries to erase the default airport relief (surrounding; maybe it just needs to intersect the area)
create polygons for new airport:
- one tagged with irport_backgrounds_flatten_maskclassmap_excludeautogen
- one closer to runways, aprons, ... tagged with LandClassPoly_Grass_skirting_2

In the same time, you may create other polys for LC (city, forest, ...) or lines for road or river changes.
Compile all together in a cvx_FMNH.bgl file

4/ in afcad (now, it will be soon more convenient with new tools)
open the fs9 default airport FMNH; save as AF2_FMNH.bgl; make all changes, save as AF2, and a copy as AFX.
Keep the AF2 in FS9 format for next changes in afacd.
Open the AFX in SDE; eventually edit xml for object / trigger exclusions, new refuelling post / new trigger placing; then recompile in FSX format (AFX_FMNH.bgl can't be open in afcad)

5/ Install cvx + afx in the FMNH scenery folder

6/ Now, you may add scenery bgl in same folder for airport 3D scenery

>>> Many of those steps will be easier with ADE or FSX_Planner tools (it will no more need to keep a FS9 model for afcad).

Only remaining problem: in FS!Discover, old and new airport infos are displayed; I've been answered by FS!Discover that it can't yet take delete infos in consideration.

Thanks to all answers and help, especially from José!
Pierrot - FMEP

Pierrot - FMEP

Wow, there are certainly a lot of steps you are taking there! I hope that FSX Planner will help you to perform the same operation with a minimal number of steps.

The Move Airport function with FSX Planner (Edit -> Move Airport) is designed to move everything necessary for the airport. Of course if it doesn't do that properly for you, or you would like some more options just let me know!

-Russell

 

[scruffyduck]

Moving an airport is a process. Apart from moving those things that you can see such as runways etc (and taking account of any approach data, navaids and so on) you will almost certainly need to adjust the airport polygon and exclusions polys. These cannot be done using BglComp in either FS9 or FSX. There is a good tutorial on how to do it for FS9 here.

http://www.fs-freeflow.com/forum2/index.php?topic=715.0

It is different for FSX however

Thus shifting the ARP and all the elements associated with it may well put the airport into a bunch of houses or trees and mess up the 'soft surfaces' around the hard ones so that will need to be handled as well. Also roads and other features may get in the way or be cut unceremoniously with the airport.

As previously mentioned not all of this will matter so much with rural fields

 

[José]

Learned fast

Hi, Pierrot

Hello
I think I have now a rather "clean" method to change position / elevation of a simple default FSX airport (no approch, ils, ...), with(out) refueling facilities.

Thanks to all answers and help, especially from José!

Pierrot - FMEP

Not at all.

Kind regards,

José