Almost ready to give up

First of all, this rant is not directed at anyone I've been in contact with at this forum. The support I've gotten here has been wonderful and I feel I've made some new friends. I am however, not sure anymore if all this effort has been worth it. You bust your butt trying to be nice creating a program to help out other scenery designers and it takes over your life and casts this giant judgmental spotlight on you. Yesterday, I received an email from one of the administrators of Avsim's file library stating that since they received some complaints of missing files from user of my Beta program, they had removed it from the library. Not just the newly uploaded and probably fixed version I just sent them but every version since I began this task.

I sent them an email asking for details and they said they had received 4 complaints (out of over 1000 downloads) and that they couldn't accomodate having to answer them. I told them that I'd clearly stated the program to be Beta, that errors were expected, and that I'd clearly given my name and email address in the install package. Of course they didn't tell me what file was missing so I have no clue if the problems occurred on a previous version, if I left something out of the last .zip I sent, or there was something more ominous. Since the file is now gone, I can't download it myself to see what's missing. I'm paranoid to send them another version cause I know they'll be watching like a hawk, ready to shut it down at the first sign of discontent. That's if they'd even post it again.

It was very soon after I uploaded the first, very flawed version to them that I sent a new file that addressed the most fatal errors and put in the instructions that it should completely replace the original uploaded file. Well, they never did that and just left two versions. Knowing users, many probably just download the first they come to. Secondly, there is no library area for beta programs so your program gets marketed right along with the stable packages. I never intended for 1000 people to download that program, only people serious about helping in the beta process.

I've had some other gracious offers to host the program and I'll take someone up on that as soon as I can determine there wasn't a fatal flaw in my last install pack. I really think it was ok but Avsim's got me paranoid now.

Anyway, thanks for letting me vent and for all the support from users on here.

Hi Art.
I'm so disappointed to hear such bad news from you. I knew Avsim did not always act fairly, but I couldn't imagine they were so close to the bottom.
I can only ask you not to give up and, if there is another way, please keep on with your task. The improvements you have been announcing in the last posts can really change the way of annotating ground textures and make all the scenery designers community spare a lot of time....(time is money, says uncle Scrooge McDuck :D)
So long, Art.
Disappointing Art, but perhaps in perspective, places like this are where beta tools are probably appreciated and handled best. Avsim is a big playground with so many folks you'll experience the entire gamut of treatment. If they are short tempered regarding feedback, then the responses must lower to the lowest common denominator of reaction.

I'm only just now building a new terrain image local, and I've just downloaded your demo...I'll let you know how it goes.


Bob Bernstein
Hi Art !

Sorry to hear this ! Was the whole day on avsim waiting for your new version ! Hope this will not be the end of autogen !!!! :yikes:

greetings, Marijo
I posted a message on the library forum of Avsim and received a message back from one of the library managers basically saying they were very hesitant to support beta programs because they've been deluged in the past by complaints. I do so understand that. He was receptive to my requests to create a completely separate download area for items that are still in the testing stage including beta programs and he said he'd pass on that idea. I think it benefits them as well. A place like Avsim is very attractive to developers to reach a huge audience in a hurry and if they put up a front to discourage beta testing then developers will be tempted instead to put out untested production stuff. The complaints will still come in regardless. It's very possible that things labeled beta actually keep away complaints in the long run but it'd be impossible to quantify. I'm going to find a place to put this program. Have a ton of offers and will upload it somewhere tonight when I get home.

I may be bummed but I won't let down all the people that have been helpful so far.

Art, alltho i still cant get the program to install but by using an alternative to unpacking it i can get it to run, id be very dissapointed if yougave up the ghost !

Dont be disheartened as i think its a sensational product and well worth the wait for the finished product.

Besides, Rome wasnt built in a Day and those of us who appericiate your programming skills are willing to test and support you.

I for one cant program for peanuts and envy your ability.

rgds Jeff


Staff member
Resource contributor
Hi Art.

AVSIM sometimes does things in mysterious ways. I've had problems in the past with getting files updated. ( Perhaps AVSIM doesn't realise ALL projects are beta ). ;)

The complaints are what submarined you. AVSIM has a somewhat new policy:

If a file is challenged as to authorship or is accused of "crashing" someone's sim, or even if the file doesn't work right, the file is removed. ( It doesn't matter if the accusations are true! )

The only defense is that AVSIM has 10's of thousands of files, and perhaps only this type of policy can keep a lid on things.

I recently asked the administrators to remove a file that was basically plagarising someone else's work by just enclosing the other author's files in an auto-installer. ( I had contacted that author first, and he was shocked someone had posted his work without permission ).

Oddly, AVSIM took my word on it and deleted the file WITHOUT CHECKING OUT THE FACTS. They wrote they had no time to check the validity of each file that is posted. I could have had anyone's file removed from the library, and the administrators would not have cared at all.

Thankfully, Arno's site is here, where a little common sense rules.

AVsim = AVfullSIM ...

Hi everybody,

I guess AVSIM has grown to much and isn´t big enough in staff to manage
all carefully ...
Perhaps we should ask Arno to host the files or i could do or anyone else
- i have a site with Php-Nuke running that could do this.

Don´t waste your time with anger , Art - your time is too precious to
be wasted with such bullsXXX . :D

I would go so far and buy a new domain with 500 MB WebSpace to
keep this project running. What do you think about PHP-Nuke ?

Greetz from Germany - :wave:

Gday Art, just got your email and downloaded the latest, remmed out the line #7 as this prevents it from installing ( tested it on the work PC ) and it is running fine, no need for me to do the backdoor unpack i was doing before.
Have allready noticed some of the new stuff you have been inputting and will be testing it out tonight when i get home from work.

well done mate !



Staff member
FSDevConf team
Resource contributor
Hi Art,

Sorry to hear of all the trouble.

I don't know how big your file is, but I would be happy to increase your upload limit a bit so that you can attach it to your posts here.

And if you want I can also create a separate forum where you can discuss the tool (like I also have for my own tools).
Great news , Arno !

Hi Arno,

last version from Arts Program was less than 1 mb .
Great offer from you ! I think it would be best to have everything UNDER ONE ROOF. :)

Avsim is great with their forums , but they are sooo BIG now that finding a
file in their library could be easier ...

Greetz ,

Enzo :wave:
Hi there!

Sorry to hear this , Art :(

I think, a big piece of the cake goes to the ones complaining ... I published some gauges at AVsim - you won't believe, how resistant people could be against readme-files and hints and tips inside them :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Please, try to forget about that, spread your tools right in here and make US happy! We know about you and your affords!
Wooooowwwwww ....

Hey Art und mates ,

i am speechless :duck:

new version received and installed -
no more install-error and LST-editing -> very well done !

The features and everything i must test tonight - first i play
with my little daughter - this is most important :)

I read the Doc-File right now - Wooooowww -

Art, you are my hero -

i might not think what you can do with this program now and in the future !!!
( Hope Microsoft don t buy you ... )

Greetz from Happy Old Enzo :wave:
Today's a better day. Lots of encouragement and it appears many of my fixes worked. Arno, I'd love to have my file posted on your site. is definitely the classiest website for us budding creators. I was hesitant to ask you because I know that your main desire is to promote your own programs here and it seemed out of place to ask that of you. My program, with the new help files in it is now about 5mb in size. I have sent it to a few people that are now hosting it on their sites. Like a moron however, I didn't bring or forward the links to work today so I'll post them when I get home.

Programmed last night way too late after getting VB code from Luis showing me how to extract lat/lon from the texture filenames. My mosaic idea is going to work. Just having some fits with figuring out how to scroll around the tiles when there are more than a screenful. That's an interesting and challenging programming task because the areas represented by the tiles in a directory can have very varying shapes, wide and tall, short and fat, square, etc. My own directories generally have only up to hundreds of files in them but I know that some designers make texture directories with tens of thousands of files. In those cases you'd blow up the program trying to load all the files at once into variables and arrays. Have to create a way of loading only the area close by where the user wants to look.

Enzo, don't waste your money on more website. Instead buy a good bottle of wine and save it when we all get together some day.

Anyway, thanks again for all the support.


You are definitely right , Art ...hehehe

I will drink on your health today ... lol
and on Arno ´s of course ...

hick ... :p
Hi Art !

first of all -> THX ! Downloaded the new version, installation was now running without any problems - but : When i open the program i get a

runtime error 380
invalid property value
After this error the program window appears but i can`t work with it.


greetings, Marijo
croplus said:
Hi Art !

first of all -> THX ! Downloaded the new version, installation was now running without any problems - but : When i open the program i get a

After this error the program window appears but i can`t work with it.


greetings, Marijo
Marijo, the 380 errors all are dealing with the difference between us Yanks using a period for decimal numbers and Europeans using a comma. I thought I'd fixed that problem with this release but found a few areas where I missed in the code. The interim fix is to change your Window's setup using Control Panel - Regional Options - Numbers and change the decimal delimter from a comma to a period while you're running my program. That's fixed the problem with everyone that's tried it so far. The next version I upload should address that although I find it hard to exactly duplicate the setup on my development computer.

Thanks for the feedback.



Staff member
FSDevConf team
Resource contributor
Hi Art,

Just a side note, but did you get the private message I sent to you?