Autogen trees not showing up

I am trying to place some autogen trees around my custom airport using the annotator. Unfortunately none of them are showing up. I decided to test to see if the annotator is working and it appears so. I used SBuilderX to create a photo01.bgl of a test airport and then used that .bgl file in the annotator to place some palm trees around the test airport. I was able to see them in P3D. When I do the same for my custom airport I don't see any autogen. I suspect something is suppressing it but I don't know what. I have the photo scenery for the background of the airport. I have a vector fence surrounding the airport and I even placed some trees 1/3 of a mile from any custom objects but they still didn't show up. I don't have any excludes that should be causing it. I tried placing the trees with both the vegetation option that created boxes and the poly option but neither work. How can I determine what is causing this? Thanks in advance for the help.
 
A little more research reveals that if I remove all of the .bgl files from my scenery folder with the exception of photo01.bgl then the autogen shows up. I replaced every one of the .bgl files, object libraries, etc. and it works until I add back in the GP bgl file. So it is something in that GP .bgl file. Probably the ground polys?
 
So it appears that GPs will suppress autogen if it is inside of the bounding box. I have a GP runway that I assume is responsible for this. One would think the bounding box for an object would not extend out away from the object or at the least a small percentage, say 10% away but I guess that is not the case because my autogen is being suppressed 500 yards or more away from the runway. So is there a way to edit this bounding box?
 
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/autogen-trees-not-showing-up.441125/

I am trying to place some autogen trees around my custom airport using the annotator. Unfortunately none of them are showing up. I decided to test to see if the annotator is working and it appears so. I used SBuilderX to create a photo01.bgl of a test airport and then used that .bgl file in the annotator to place some palm trees around the test airport. I was able to see them in P3D. When I do the same for my custom airport I don't see any autogen. I suspect something is suppressing it but I don't know what.
I have the photo scenery for the background of the airport. I have a vector fence surrounding the airport and I even placed some trees 1/3 of a mile from any custom objects but they still didn't show up. I don't have any excludes that should be causing it. I tried placing the trees with both the vegetation option that created boxes and the poly option but neither work. How can I determine what is causing this? Thanks in advance for the help.

Hello:

When you inspect all CVX vector Airport Background / Boundary-type (aka "AB") polygons in SDK TMFViIewer, then right-click on the poly-lines / polygon borders for each object, note the vector GUIDs used.

Then see if any of those AB polygons used have the "ExcludeAutogen" attribute included as part of a 2- or 3- attribute GUID ...rather than a 1-attribute GUID for ex: a flatten AB polygon type.

Let us know if this does not prove applicable to your scenario. :)

vhttp://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/autogen-trees-not-showing-up.441125/#post-781977

A little more research reveals that if I remove all of the .bgl files from my scenery folder with the exception of photo01.bgl then the autogen shows up. I replaced every one of the .bgl files, object libraries, etc. and it works until I add back in the GP bgl file. So it is something in that GP .bgl file. Probably the ground polys?
UPDATE: Our posts (almost) crossed on the server as I was about to press the [Post Reply] button. :laughing:

When you stated in your opening post:

"I have the photo scenery for the background of the airport.", I assumed you were referring to the "Phot01 BGL" that is a custom photo-real aerial imagery land class BGL which requires custom autogen annotation *an.agn files as we previously discussed recently, and that this works when tested without other BGL files loaded.


But, IIUC, now after you stated in your latter post:

"The GP bgl file. So it is something in that GP .bgl file. Probably the ground polys ?"

...IIUC, you are saying that you have used custom photo-real aerial imagery as textures on either a legacy FS2002 SCASM / ASM or P3D MDL-based Ground Polygon (aka "G-Poly" or "GP").

Ground Polygons do indeed have the default attribute of excluding display of default or custom Autogen.

However, IIRC, both the utilities for creating Ground Polygons by Arno in MCX' "G-Poly Wizard"', and the GP tool in ADE-GP "Ground Poly Editor" by Don Grovestine (aka "gadgets") have a way to disable the internal attribute for excluding display of default or custom Autogen by Ground Polygons in FS at run time.


https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&q=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+Autogen+Ground+Polygons&oq=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+Autogen+Ground+Polygons&gs_l=psy-ab.3...1511.26556.0.27452.45.39.6.0.0.0.130.3107.33j5.38.0.dummy_maps_web_fallback...0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.4.426...0j46j0i46k1j0i131k1j0i3k1.0.tyVKOmFFKCA


[EDITED]

PS: Which of the (2) above utilities did you use to make the "GPs" in question, and are they MDL-based ? :scratchch


[END_EDIT]

GaryGB
 
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Gary, I used ADE 1.70 to create all of my polygons. I don't see any option for disabling the internal attribute for excluding.

I am not familar with the TMFViewer so I am not sure I am doing this correctly. I loaded the .bgl and I see the polygons such as the airport flatten, and airport background exclude. I right clicked on every polygon shown and selected Identify Vector Features. It shows a tree view such as Vector Objects > Airport Bounds > Texture > Texture (GUID). Each object only has one GUID listed. I don't see any that refer to ExcludeAutogen.
 
One must look up the GUIDs in the SDK documents and/or via the GUI for ex: ADE or SBuilderX (wherever the CVX vector AB polygon object was created) to see which attributes 1, 2 or 3 were assigned to the AB polygon.

You may wish to review the info in this post:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/trees.18151/#post-118610


However, it seems more likely based on your latter info, that you may simply need to tweak the attributes for your "GP".


As (some) of the linked threads discuss, in either MCX' "G-Poly Wizard" or ADE-GP "Ground Poly Editor", one may set an attribute for GPs which (attempts) to disable Autogen exclusion.

If use of those currently available methods for disabling Autogen exclusion by a legacy format SCASM / ASM or MDL based GP fails, there 'may' be additional tricks we could try for either GP type by placing the GP RefPoint slightly under the local ground surface MSL, then use an 'offset' value in fractions of a Meter of Altitude MSL (elevation) for display position in FS at run time ...of the actual textured surface of the GP. ;)


PS: Just in case you did not see one of my infamous "edits" in my reply above:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/autogen-trees-not-showing-up.441125/#post-781980

...are the GPs MDL-based ?


If, so try editing the placement BGLComp-XML placement code for the MDL-based GPs to enable a "NoAutogenSuppression" element immediately prior to the LibraryObject placement elements for the GPs. :idea:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526978.aspx#LibraryObject

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&q=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+"NoAutogenSuppression"&oq=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+"NoAutogenSuppression"&gs_l=psy-ab.12...5014.15495.0.17794.26.26.0.0.0.0.179.2930.0j24.24.0.dummy_maps_web_fallback...0...1.1.64.psy-ab..2.3.452...0j46j0i46k1j0i131k1.0.4ZA7ANL1jfE


GaryGB
 
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Gary, All of my ground polys are made within ADE by clicking on Add Custom Ground Poiy and then drawing the GP. I have a couple of water type polygons that I drew using the Add Polygon button but all the rest are drawn using the Custom Ground Poly button.
 
And my flatten is just a Type: Airport Background, Tag Name: Flatten. It doesn't contain the suppress autogen attribute.
 
OK, good. :)

So we are now dealing with the outstanding question of which 'type' of GP output you requested by ADE-GP "Ground Poly Editor as a flat, textured 3D object, compiled as:

...either:

* a SCASM / ASM legacy format using VTP layer numbers (works in either FS8 /FS9 / FSX / P3D (...but only in P3D for the time being)

...or:

* a MDL-based P3D format using negative Z-Bias Material Properties (works only in P3D).


GaryGB
 
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I have the exact same problem. For some reason the autogen just won't appear on the sim.
I too don't have any exclusion polygons .bgl on the scenery folder. The aerial .bgl is actually the only one in the folder...
 
Gary, I am not sure where to find that information. When I draw the polygon I basically only have the texture and the layer as options. Is this a setting that is set somewhere within ADE? If so, I can't find that.
 
Although I use MCX G-Poly wizard, I do have a copy of ADEv1.70 on another computer; I'll see if I can advise further. ;)

How big is the "ADE-GP" output BGL ?

Could you post it as an attachment or link to it in this thread / via a PM ?

GaryGB
 
OK, I just checked the ADEv1.70 GP Manual, and it is not clear whether this supports the P3D SDK-compliant MDL-based GPs yet; it seems more likely that it does not.

If that is the case, your GPs would be a SCASM / ASM legacy format using VTP layer numbers compiled to a BGL.


FYI
: Here is what the ADE-GP User Guide states, which AFAIK, applies to GPs in SCASM / ASM legacy format using VTP layer numbers:

"Appendix "A" - Autogen Suppression by Ground Polys

Autogen suppression by ground polys is unavoidable! But, it is controllable. Since autogen suppression played such a significant role in the testing of ADE_GP, I felt some discussion was warranted.

There are (at least) two types of autogen suppression by ground polys.

1.
The first and easiest to understand is suppression within the bounding box. Whenever a scenery object is placed in FlightSim, autogen is suppressed within its bounding box, that is, the smallest rectangle - oriented in the cardinal directions - that can contain the object. In the case of ADE_GP, the object is one or more ground polys. Obviously, if your ground polys are not oriented in cardinal directions, the bounding box will be larger than if they were and extra autogen will be suppressed. To combat this, ADE_GP will divide your ground polys into groups for which the largest dimension of the bounding box will not notionally exceed the Group Size you specify. The descriptor, "notionally", is important, however, since, if the size of a ground poly exceeds the entered Group Size, the bounding box will be based on the actual size and orientation of that ground poly. For this purpose, each segment of a line is considered a separate poly and, for FSX and P3D, ground polys that exceed 100m in any dimension are automatically subdivided into 100m (or less) "chunks". While, technically, it would be possible to subdivide ground polys into even smaller "chunks", the need to do so should be infrequent and, in any case, an obvious manual solution is available.

2.
The other type of autogen suppression is less well understood. It can result in wide swaths of missing autogen in areas not even bordered by ground polys. But it is definitely caused by the ground polys; remove the ground polys and the autogen returns. This type of autogen suppression can be avoided with the judicious use of the "dummy Scale" command, i.e., a SCALE_AGL command with all its fields set to 0 (For further information on dummy Scale commands and some history on the topic, please refer to this fsDeveloper forum thread. To avoid this type of autogen suppression, a dummy Scale command should be placed at the end of the code block called by each ADDCAT command, just before the BGL_RETURN statement. Unfortunately, use of dummy scale commands can lead to flickering of ground shadows. To avoid flickering, add a block of data and code as if you planned to place additional ground polys. The associated latitude and longitude references should reflect the entire area covered by ground polys. The layer argument of the ADDCAT command must be a number higher than any layer used by the ground polys. (This implies 62 as the maximum useable GP layer.) The code block called by the ADDCAT command should contain nothing but a BGL_RETURN statement, i.e., no dummy scale command. This autogen suppression prevention block (may) be placed in the same file as the ground polys or in a separate file. What's important is that it specify a layer number higher than any used by the ground polys.

ADE Ground Polys - © 2013-2014 - Don Grovestine and ScruffyDuck Software"


I suggest that you download and install the new ADEv1.75x.

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/ade-1-75-6421-production-installer.440925/


Otherwise, try using Don's latest GP-Editor build, downloadable from:

http://stuff4fs.com/newpage.asp?Folder=ADE_GP


Which version of P3D are you using / targeting ? :scratchch


Be certain you have the pertinent P3Dv2, v3 and/or v4 SDK to link to for ADE-GP MDL-based GP compilation.

Perhaps then you will have the option to output a MDL-based GP via ADE-GP Editor.

That type of GP can be placed via BGLComp-XML code with a NoAutogenSuppression element.


And with a MDL-based GP, you can add visual enhancements that can not be used with a SCASM / ASM legacy format GP. :wizard:

GaryGB
 
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Hi,

I have not had time enough to go through the extensive explanation Gary provided but I think it is all besides the point (and please do correct me if I am wrong, Gary).
Scasm made FS2004 type poly will suppress autogen, that is one thing that is for sure and everything you try will only diminish it but not get rid of it.
I have struggled about at least two years with this problem until I discovered that:
- when you load your ADE_gp.bgl into MCX;
- merge the various submodels;
- export as one fsx mdl;
- load that one in the MCX GPWizard;
- check (in the GP Wizard) the 'no autogen suppress';
and compile the scenery as either a FSX or P3Dv2/3 (not v4) bgl,
you will no longer have any autogen suppression.

Cheers,

PS: For P3Dv4 you will have to add and change the layers to negative and then compile.
PS2: Maybe the ADE version 1.75 plus the latest Ground poly Editor and its various bug fixes will do this automatically but I am not sure (I do not dare risk my present project to try it out) and have not enough time to do it (although I would like to help out there as well).
 
I am using P3Dv3 currently. Once Fly Inside makes their product compatible with v4 I will be totally v4. :)

A lot of information to digest here for sure. I did try the group setting in the ADE compiler and was able to get a grand total of 1 of the autogen trees to show but then the performance suffered greatly.

I will look at this over the weekend and will try robystar's work around also. Have a good weekend guys.
 
IIUC, what Roby has been alluding to in several threads besides this one for some time now (and please do correct me if I am wrong, Roby), is as follows immediately below.

BTW: Roby, if I am not correct, we shall finally demand that you provide a "concise" explanation of this process that you have been alluding to ! :p


Anyway, this is my impression of what Roby is alluding to:

When one is converting an already segmented and grouped G-Poly from ex: a recycled / migrated / ported legacy format SCASM / ASM non-MDL based G-Poly, one will first have to "merge" those segments and groups back together again in MCX, to get a 1-piece GP ...to then output a 1-piece MDL-based GP. :scratchch



IMHO, "always save the intermediate work products", so that one will still have a 1-piece flat 3D model; but that would require creating the GP in a 3D modeling application and importing it into MCX for processing via the MCX G-Poly Wizard.

By default, when legacy format SCASM / ASM non-MDL based G-Polys are output, they are segmented by MCX G-Poly Wizard into 'sub-tiles', each mapped with a certain texture size and object size as a part of the decision tree on output configuration, and such tiles are always aligned on the N-S, E-W 3D FS world axes.

This is aside from what is done when one "groups" sub-tiles around single RefPoints used for placement based on the overall maximum N-S, E-W size being kept to no more than a 100 Meter extent.



IIUC, ADE-GP Editor creates a GP from code generated via its GUI, then during processing, performs somewhat comparable procedures to those of MCX G-Poly Wizard with regard to segmenting textured 3D faces into 'sub-tiles' and "groups" of sub-tiles around single RefPoints of no more than a 100 Meter extent.



PS: I'm also inclined to agree with Andrew on what to do after 'some' challenging days ! :p

GaryGB
 
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Well, Gary said it all once more and it is correct.
Load a ADE_gp.bgl in MCX and you will have several subobjects. Merge the subobjects into one. Export the object (mdl) and load it in the GP Wizard to convert to a gp fsx style bgl and make sure you check 'prevent autogen exclusion'. I cannot be more concise or specific :).
 
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