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Colinear verticies, won't compile model

Messages
208
Country
us-ohio
FSDS v3.5.1
FS2004


Well I've tried just about everything I can think of to work around this. This is an AI Humvee model that I'm working on with LODs to boot. I've tried copying the left side (which is identical just mirrored), I've tried running through all the functions of FSDS (check parts, snap to scale, etc.) and I still can't get past this error message to get the model to compile. The model did compile correctly previously before this error came up.


So does anyone know how to address this issue? I don't even know what "colinear verticies" means let alone where or how to look for them. Are those the coordinates of the points of the triangle? If so, is there a way to go to that exact point in the design to fix the issue?

FSDS_error_07_27_08.jpg
 
Last edited:
Messages
520
Country
australia
Hi
Ok first go into the root folder of fsds find a file called
MakeMdlAircraftParms.bat rename it MakeMdlAircraftParms.txt or move it to another folder.Now when you compile the makemdl options window will open,check the ignore boxs (there is 3 of em) also uncheck the weld one.Now unless there is a major error it will compile.Dont worry to much about colinear verticies my last model had about 200 of em and it looked fine in fs ...yeah Im a messy builder :)
cheers
Wozza
 

GHD

Messages
12,243
Country
england
Co-linear vertices mean that there are three vertices in a straight line so they cannot describe a triangle..

In your list, the vertices differ only in the third coordinate.
 
Messages
1,484
My favorite way to find this is to make a scratch file. Begin to delete portions of your model by about half. As soon as you delete the part with the co-located verts the error stops (of course first you'd have to re-enable the error message).

I always found and deleted these polys. Just seemed like good practice.
 
Messages
2,286
Country
us-washington
My favorite way to find this is to make a scratch file. Begin to delete portions of your model by about half. As soon as you delete the part with the co-located verts the error stops (of course first you'd have to re-enable the error message).

I always found and deleted these polys. Just seemed like good practice.
HI Bob.

Helping this fellow, I found that every Boolean operation he did had errors in them. I took those out and redid the parts without Boolean. It solved the errors and also dropped the polys by 20 each part. I told him use Boolean as a last resort, if you can. Anyway, I fixed the animation; SWcott did also n his end - he took a look at it as well. This we compiled with makemdl. looks great n FSX. In FS9 1/2 the truck is missing!!! Curiouser and curiouser!! Bob
 
Messages
520
Country
australia
hehe thought I was having a senior moment...couldn't for the life of me remember making the above post...then I released it was in 2008.... :D
 
Messages
1,049
Country
australia
Should I reply to this? It has been 6 years since the original post. Oh well, why not give it a go? Someone may find this interesting.

As George says colinear vertices are when the vertices of a triangle are all in a straight line.

The error message tells you what part the error is in (in this case Part Side_Right) and the coords are where the points are located. These coords are relative to the axis position of the part. I can't remember what order the coords are in. Whether it is X,Y,Z or something else.

Imagine, if you will, a square. Each corner will have a point. Now, if you move the point in the lower right corner of the square up and to the right so that it is inline with the top two points and about an equal distance to the right you will have created a right triangle with 3 points along the top (let's call them top left, top middle and top right (which used to be the lower right corner)) and one point in the lower left.

Snapping to scale could actually be the worst thing to do in this situation. If the points are close to a straight line snapping to scale may force them into a straight line.

Now, a square setup this way may, or may not create a colinear vertice. It all depends on how FSDS decides to assign the two triangles that make up the square (FSDS will break everything down to triangles when it exports your model)

If FSDS decides to create one triangle with the top left, top middle and lower left points and the other with the top middle, top right and lower left points then all will be fine.

But if FSDS creates one triangle with the top left, top right and lower left points the other triangle will be top left, top middle and top right and this will generate the colinear vertice error as these points are in line.

Here's the really tricky thing to watch out for. If you duplicate the part and mirror image it (like you may do when creating a wing) you can almost guarantee that one of the parts will generate a colinear vertice error as FSDS will generate the triangles via it's own internal logic. This is why the original poster was having a problem copying the left side. The potential for a colinear vertice was in his left part but due to the way FSDS was assigning the triangles he was avoiding the problem. It is when he mirrored the part that the way FSDS assigned the triangles worked against him.

Duplicated and mirrored parts in FSDS can never be guaranteed to be truely identical as the way FSDS assigns triangles in a polygon will affect each side differently. Personally, when creating fuselage or wings I only use triangles, never polygons. This is a real pain in the butt to setup but it does mean that when I duplicate and mirror the wings or elevators or fuselage then I know exactly where the triangles will be and I can be assured that the parts are indeed identical mirror images.

PS Boolean in FSDS is evil. Never produces good results and always generates masses of useless polygons.
 
Messages
2,286
Country
us-washington
AuMav and Anthony- good article. Yes boolean can be a pain, but it is necessary at times.... I use it as a last resort.

Maybe I have done this but how do you 'mirror image ' something? I use wing wizard or whatever it is called and both wings are created but that is not mirror imaging... maybe it is. I do the copy/paste often. But if there is a mirror image capability so I don't have to horse around with the part it would be nice to know. Funny how I've used FSDS since version 3 and for years 3.5.1 and taught some many things they didn't know and they used it for years... then I see someone who is using something in FSDS I never knew about! And here I thought I knew EVERYTHING! BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Gotta love it. Bob
 
Messages
1,049
Country
australia
Mirror image can be achieved under the menu system with Transform/Flip/ and then select Flip X (for wings) or Flip Y or Flip Z depending on your preference. You're probably doing this already and were just confused by the term I used. I only use that term as there is a mirror image button in Paintshoppro which I use a lot and so it has become a habit for me to use that term for anything that is flipped. Only bug to watch out for is make sure no points or polygons are selected in the part before you flip it. Any selected polygons may individually flip themselves which makes a real mess.
 
Messages
2,286
Country
us-washington
Good. I'll look into it. BTW- I have Corel's PSP X4. Two or three items here. I won't go to X6 yet. too damn much to lern where I'm at! Besides, I like Metrix from Josh. It is 32 bit and PSP X6 is 64 bit so it won't work with X6. I understand you can install the 32 bit version of X6 as well, but I've got bocu learning to do on X4. ;)

Anyway- I was sent NIK software for free for reging X4 (that's so I'm blessed with the wonderful nag screen about X6). NIk has some neat stuff where I can do nice shading, I guess they call it baking? Can do nice shading techniques for walls just under roof eves. You can control the degree of shade fading and even rotate it sideways. ala blender.
for bump maps I guess it is under effects, dsitortion, distortion maps. I did a nice light reflection off abeer can for more 3d look, but trying it with other stuff I don't really know what I'm doing. I see changes but not sure if it is what I want.

I did fuss with a brick wall, then laid some printing on it and messed with that so it looks like the letters kind of follow the ins and outs of the brick, then drop the opacity of the layer of the print... kinda looks nice. Looks kind of like a faded sign that says "post no bills" or "Redman Chewing tobaccie". ;)

But mainly a friend has Paintnet or something named like that. It has a color match tool. He showed me over Skype. He had his default summer template and his bmp for his photoreal. Chose one, chose the other, bingo same color! I am envious! (my color matches the little green men from Mars). does PSP have anything like that? Bob
 
Messages
1,049
Country
australia
I got X6 a couple of months ago and I'm running the 64bit version. I think you're right that you can install the 32bit version. I've still got X2 installed so I can use that if I need to.

For photoreal it is a heck of a lot better than 32bit (mainly from all that extra memory you can play with)

With X2 and I could only really use images about 5000x5000 pixels. Anything larger and if you start usign a few layers X2 would give you the dreaded "not enough memory to save".

I think there is still a limit on the image sizes you can work with X6 (I think it is 20,000 x 20,000) but at least with 64bit you can actually handle images that size.

There are some annoyances with X6 with the user interface. It is too easy to undock tools which bugs me. Plus, the is no "Create a new layer" when you right click in the layers palette. I've made a shortcut in my toolbar but I still find myself resorting to the right click (force of habit I guess).

It does seem to be a more stable program though. I think I've only had one crash so far. And it also seems a bit faster (especially with saving and loading images).

As for the colour matching tool your friend has I haven't found one yet. Looks like the best PSP can still do is the colour changer which is really hit and miss when it comes to doing photoreal textures.
 
Messages
2,286
Country
us-washington
With the old 32 bit I have Metrix works very well. Yep- tools like to undock if you aren't carefull. I had my paint brush tools undock. so it sat up there on top a bit bigger, not being able to fit in the top menu anymore. And for some reason my background eraser wasn't erasing everything. I might have accidently hit some setting and knocked things out of whack. I reloaded a new copy and all was fine until I went and undocked the damn paint bruch tools again! I wrote to someone in a forum (hard to find and get in). An admin wrote back and told me to hover the tool bar over the side or even the center until an up/down arrowhead appears then click on the arrowhead and bingo the bar went back to where it was supposed to be!

i then went to 'views' i think or one of the items and found at the bottom of the scroll a setting where you can save your configuration. If you mess it up again you go to this and click on your saved setting and it all goes back to where it belongs.

Wish I could find on line good pictures of passenger train cars that are big enough and good enough resolution they don't fuzz up on ya when you resize larger!
I hand made a cattle car (livestock car) which turned out very nice. My friend who use to be into model trains told me , and I read on line, that railroads stopped transporting livestock around 1974. Too many animal deaths no matter what they did. i couldn't help it... had to make one anyway, and I put some default sheep in it! hahahaa!

Finallyi figured out many months ago how to take a smooth tube and turn just the two ends flat with no smoothing so you don' t get those annoying shadows. Funny how you use a tool for years then suddenly find something you didn't know about! ....And here I thought I was perfect! ;) Bob
 
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