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Controllers ignore my ILS

Messages
10
Country
poland
Hello,
I'm in a process of building an airport. In the middle of nowhere I changed area with Ground2k4 (still can't figure out this program), with SFlattEx I flatened the area than excluded trees and buildings (chose ALL). Filally using AFCAD I've built an airport with a runway to which I attached ILS on both ends. ILS works fine and is listed on the map. Unfortunately ATC ignores ILS and always require visual approach. I can't find information on how to solve my problem.
Another question I have is how to create a gate parking that looks like "T" which I find on all airports.

Thank you
Cheers
 
Hi,

You need to code approaches for your runway as well, else the ATC will never use it. Having only an ILS is not enough.

Have a look at the forum, the subject of making approaches has been discussed before.
 
Thank you Arno. I followed threads you pointed me toward. Unfortunately writing approach is far beyond my knowledge. Those posts are quite old.Would you know if by now someone wrote a GUI type interface program that creates ILS approach?
Thank you
Cheers
 
How to use search engine in this forum? When I type keywords like "ILS" I get "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms". It's a bit hard reading all posts to find what I'm looking for. How do others do it?
:)
Cheers
 
Would you know if by now someone wrote a GUI type interface program that creates ILS approach?

No, as far as I know there is no tool yet that allows you to do this graphically. It is on the wishlist for the new tool we are currently discussing on this forum though. But that will not be available very soon I guess.

How to use search engine in this forum? When I type keywords like "ILS" I get "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms". It's a bit hard reading all posts to find what I'm looking for.

I would have to check the settings about the searching, but I think you need to use 4 letter words. To keep the amount of search terms low 2 and 3 letters words can not be used as search term. I have added a few 3 letter exceptions and will check if ILS is one of them (probably not yet :)).
 
Thank you Arno. How do you find time for all this? :)

I did some homework. I think I have a general idea about how to create an approach though I still miss details. I created an xml approach file but I'm having problems compiling it. I get a nasty long list of errors. Can someone please try and tell what I'm doing wrong?

Thank you

Here is my approach file

Code:
<FSData version="9.0"
xmlns:xsi='http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance'
xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd"> 

<Airport ident="RTOM"
region="Asia"
country="Japan"
state="Aichi"
city="Okazaki"
name="TOM International"
lat="N34*54.38'"
lon="E137*11.74'"
alt="91.44M"
magvar="-7"/>

<Approach type="ILS"
runway="36"
suffix="0"
gpsOverlay="FALSE" 
designator="NONE" 
fixType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT" 
fixRegion="AS"
fixIdent="36TN" 
altitude="1799.978F"
heading="360" 
missedAltitude="3000F">

<ApproachLegs>
<Leg type="IF"
altitude1="1799.978F"
altitude2="1799.978F"
altitudeDescriptor="A"
theta="180"
rho="31481.4810"
fixType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT"
fixIdent="36TF"
fixRegion="AS"
recommendedType="LOCALIZER"
recommendedIdent="IKTP" />
</ApproachLegs>

<MissedApproachLegs>
<Leg type="CA"
altitude1="449.995F"
altitudeDescriptor="+"
magneticCourse="360"
turnDirection="E" />
</MissedApproachLegs>
</Approach> 

<Waypoint
lat="34.773295"
lon="-137.1963316"
waypointType="NAMED"
magvar="-7"
waypointRegion="AS" 
waypointIdent="36TN" /> 

<Waypoint 
lat="34.32465"
lon="-137.1963316"
waypointType="UNNAMED"
magvar="-7"
waypointRegion="PH" 
waypointIdent="36TF" />

</Airport>
</FSData>
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi,

There is one little error in your XML code. You used the wrong bracket on the Airport tag. Instead of:

Code:
magvar="-7"/>

You should use:

Code:
magvar="-7">

Then the code compiles (but I have not tested if it works of course).
 
Thank you Arno, this did the trick and the file compiles. I lost a link where once I found information on where to put a bgl file so I put it in "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Flight Simulator 9\Scenery\Generic\scenery" and it even works after I made some corrections to lat and lon.
The problem is my airport (all 2d objects to be precise) that I made with AFCAD has disappeared.
This is how I made it:

1. With ExcBuilder I flattened and excluded airport area. I have entered following statement in scenery.cfg:
Flatten.0=300,N34 56.30,E137 11.64,N34 56.30,E137 12.39,N34 52.87,E137 12.39,N34 52.87,E137 11.64
Exclude=N34 55.98,E137 11.65,N34 52.90,E137 12.42,all

2. With Ground2k4 I changed appearance of the area.

3. With AFCAD I've created an airport.

All worked till I created mentioned in this post approach bgl. The airport appears on the map with ILSs and newly created IFR approach is OK. It's that runway, taxiways and aprons disappeared though the tower and other buildings are still there. It looks like a newly created approach bgl, in which runways etc are not stated, loads with priority. Since it doesn't have specified runways and taxiways, it shows nothing?

Is there a solution to my problem?
Thank you

Cheers
 
I think that you should make your exclude as an XML file rather than in the scenery.cfg, at least that worked for me. My AFCAD2 airport shows fine using this method.

Code:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<FSData version="9.0" xmlns:xsi='http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance' xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd">

<ExclusionRectangle
latitudeMinimum = "N40.168500"
latitudeMaximum = "N40.204500"
longitudeMinimum = "W83.130667"
longitudeMaximum = "W83.091167"
excludeBeaconObjects = "TRUE"
excludeEffectObjects = "TRUE"
excludeGenericBuildingObjects = "TRUE"
excludeLibraryObjects = "TRUE"
excludeTaxiwaySignObjects = "TRUE"
excludeTriggerObjects = "TRUE"
excludeWindsockObjects = "TRUE"/>

</FSData>

Lou
 
Thank you Lou,
I followed your advice. At the beginning nothing changed so I put everything into created C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Flight Simulator 9\Addon Scenery\_My_Airport and my airport returned. Almost. I say almost because buildings I placed with ez-scenery (pay software) disappeared, which means exclusion bgl works with an overkill effect.
Now the only bgl file that is outside my folder is the ILS approach file in C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Flight Simulator 9\Scenery\Generic\scenery, and a line "Flatten.0=299.5,N34 56.30,E137 11.64,N34 56.30,E137 12.39,N34 52.87,E137 12.39,N34 52.87,E137 11.64" is still in the scenery.cfg because I haven't learned yet how to write xml flat file.
ILS approach works.
I'm still reading forums but it becomes increasingly difficult to filter out vital information as there are as many recipes as people writing them.

Any idea how to get my buildings back?

Thank you
 
OK, I got my airport buildings back for now. All my BGLs are in Addon Scenery\my airport (I learned how to create fatten bgl) except for a line that excludes default scenery objects in a scenery.cfg (Exclude=N34 55.98,E137 11.65,N34 52.90,E137 12.42,all). If I use a bgl file that excludes default scenery using FlattEx program (it also excludes all) and put it in the "my airport" folder, then in addition to default scenery, my airport buildings go too. Why???:banghead:
Can anybody help me with this one or drop here a link where I can learn more?
Cheers
Feather
 
It is really difficult to say why you are having the problems that you are. It may be that your exclude boundary is just too big and needs to be made smaller. Remember, you only need the exclude to cover a small area where the origin is for the object(s) that you want to remove and it is not always easy to find that origin. If you can find and disect the bgl that is calling the object(s) you want to exclude, you could get the coords from that. This means you might need several small exclude boundaries in your bgl to remove several objects. I know it sounds like a lot of work, but I think in the end, you will get much better results.

Lou
 
Thanks Lou, but I'm still in dark. All I want is to eliminate trees, buildings and power lines in the area of the airport that is about 10 square km. How come it's so hard? Or, is there alternative way to obtain land for airport without FS generated objects?

Thanks
 
Yes Lance, it did help a lot. While trying to keep all my files in \Addon Scenery\_Okazaki_RTOM (my fictional airport folder), I followed your kind advice and added a higher in order named exclusion file in there while deleting exclusion line from the scenery.cfg. It didn't work so I moved the exclusion bgl to \Addon Scenery\scenery and filally it did the trick.
I wonder if a file creation date also affects the way FS engine sees things.
Where do you guys learn the thicks?


Thanks for your help, Lance.

Cheers
Feather
 
I see people are reading this thread so I’m placing a ready script for approaches to opposite ends of the same runway. It took me some time to figure out how to place 2 approaches in one file. I still have no idea what waypoints are for but they are needed to FS to lead an aircraft in IFR mode. The airport I’ve created is fictional thus it should be easier for those who are where I was a month ago to see things on the map clearly. This approach works in FSX too. I’ll be glad to share what I’ve learned in the process.

Cheers



<FSData version="9.0"
xmlns:xsi='http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance'
xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd">

<Airport ident="RTOM"
region="Asia"
country="Japan"
state="Aichi"
city="Okazaki"
name="TOM International"
lat="34.906333333333"
lon="137.195666666667"
alt="91.40M"
magvar="-7">

<Approach type="ILS"
runway="36"
suffix="0"
gpsOverlay="FALSE"
designator="NONE"
fixType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT"
fixRegion="AS"
fixIdent="36TN"
altitude="1799.978F"
heading="360"
missedAltitude="3000F">

<ApproachLegs>
<Leg type="IF"
altitude1="1799.978F"
altitude2="1799.978F"
altitudeDescriptor="A"
theta="180"
rho="31481.4810"
fixType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT"
fixIdent="36TF"
fixRegion="AS"
recommendedType="LOCALIZER"
recommendedIdent="IKTP" />
</ApproachLegs>

<MissedApproachLegs>
<Leg type="CA"
altitude1="449.995F"
altitudeDescriptor="+"
magneticCourse="360"
turnDirection="E" />
</MissedApproachLegs>
</Approach>


<Approach type="ILS"
runway="18"
suffix="0"
gpsOverlay="FALSE"
designator="NONE"
fixType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT"
fixRegion="AS"
fixIdent="18TN"
altitude="1799.978F"
heading="180"
missedAltitude="3000F">

<ApproachLegs>
<Leg type="IF"
altitude1="1799.978F"
altitude2="1799.978F"
altitudeDescriptor="A"
theta="360"
rho="31481.4810"
fixType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT"
fixIdent="18TF"
fixRegion="AS"
recommendedType="LOCALIZER"
recommendedIdent="IMOM" />
</ApproachLegs>

<MissedApproachLegs>
<Leg type="CA"
altitude1="449.995F"
altitudeDescriptor="+"
magneticCourse="180"
turnDirection="E" />
</MissedApproachLegs>
</Approach>


<Waypoint
lat="34.773295"
lon="137.1963316"
waypointType="NAMED"
magvar="-7"
waypointRegion="AS"
waypointIdent="36TN" />

<Waypoint
lat="34.32465"
lon="137.1963316"
waypointType="UNNAMED"
magvar="-7"
waypointRegion="PH"
waypointIdent="36TF" />

<Waypoint
lat="35.039381"
lon="137.1963316"
waypointType="NAMED"
magvar="-7"
waypointRegion="AS"
waypointIdent="18TN" />

<Waypoint
lat="35.488026"
lon="137.1963316"
waypointType="UNNAMED"
magvar="-7"
waypointRegion="PH"
waypointIdent="18TF" />

</Airport>
</FSData>
 
The objective to any written XML approach code is for the User Airplane. Once the code is written you must then open the default GPS Receiver to see if the graphical lines are drawn as a completed approach.

You must also "Load" and "ACTIVATE" the approach by way of the GPS receiver to see if the dll files will process the legtypes correctly.

In your example above there is only one legtype (IF) and the minimum required is 3 or more for any ILS approach to work correctly.

The objective is to also take the approach chart (or a made up one) and convert the graphic lines by writing XML so the GPS will now display the approach chart which also includes altitudes that ATC understands.

When testing what you have written with XML, the weather must be set to less the 3 mile visiblity so ATC will read the data that has been written. If visibility is above 3 miles ATC is using a hard coded set of values and will mislead you into thinking you XML code is being used.

Always open the GPS receiver and look to see if the XML code is complete by the way the approach chart shows up as a graphical representation.

The TERMINAL_WAYPOINTS listed at the bottom of your XML are all UNAMED because they cannot be said as a word. They are defined as TERMINAL_WAYPOINTS because you listed them under (embedded) the Airport Header. A minimum of 2 are required for a ILS approach but only the Final Approach Fix (FAF) is used by AI Planes. The User Aircraft uses both the IAF and the FAF when the GPS switch is locked to the NAV auto pilot button when using the "LOAD" and "ACTIVATE" sequences performed by the GPS receiver.

Many post can be found on the PAI AFCAD forum (last 3 years) that explains "How To" write a correct approach and what part is used by the User Plane and what part the dll uses for AI Planes. There are other post that explain "How To" write LDA, VORDME, NDB curvered approaches such as the IGS 13 into Kai Tak that both the User and AI Plane will fly correctly as per the default ATC.

hope this helps
 
Last edited:
Thank you Arno. How do you find time for all this? :)

I did some homework. I think I have a general idea about how to create an approach though I still miss details. I created an xml approach file but I'm having problems compiling it. I get a nasty long list of errors. Can someone please try and tell what I'm doing wrong?

Thank you

Here is my approach file

Code:
<FSData version="9.0"
xmlns:xsi='http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance'
xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd"> 

<Airport ident="RTOM"
region="Asia"
country="Japan"
state="Aichi"
city="Okazaki"
name="TOM International"
lat="N34*54.38'"
lon="E137*11.74'"
alt="91.44M"
magvar="-7"/>

<Approach type="ILS"
runway="36"
suffix="0"
gpsOverlay="FALSE" 
designator="NONE" 
fixType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT" 
fixRegion="AS"
fixIdent="36TN" 
altitude="1799.978F"
heading="360" 
missedAltitude="3000F">

<ApproachLegs>
<Leg type="IF"
altitude1="1799.978F"
altitude2="1799.978F"
altitudeDescriptor="A"
theta="180"
rho="31481.4810"
fixType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT"
fixIdent="36TF"
fixRegion="AS"
recommendedType="LOCALIZER"
recommendedIdent="IKTP" />
</ApproachLegs>

<MissedApproachLegs>
<Leg type="CA"
altitude1="449.995F"
altitudeDescriptor="+"
magneticCourse="360"
turnDirection="E" />
</MissedApproachLegs>
</Approach> 

<Waypoint
lat="34.773295"
lon="-137.1963316"
waypointType="NAMED"
magvar="-7"
waypointRegion="AS" 
waypointIdent="36TN" /> 

<Waypoint 
lat="34.32465"
lon="-137.1963316"
waypointType="UNNAMED"
magvar="-7"
waypointRegion="PH" 
waypointIdent="36TF" />

</Airport>
</FSData>

Hello Feather.

I am in the same boat as you are. What program did you use to create your ILS? I successfully flattened, and my AFCAD2 airport shows up in the game, all the ILS approaches work, but I need serious help in finding a program that will create the scenery files for ATC to recognize my approaches. Thanks for any help you can provide! Roman
 
Roman

When you place a new ILS with the AFCAD program it is now owned by the runway properties. That means the User Airplane will recognize it's exsistance and the radio's will lock on to the beams based on Frequncies assigned.

ATC still needs cooresponding Approach data at this point to say ILS and that comes from the very first line of Approach type="ILS" runway="36"

Of course this could also be a LDA, VORDME, NDB, etc. spoken approach based on what type approach chart is written in XML.

The easiest thing to do is decompile a APXnnnnnn.bgl and see how FS uses XML to write certain type approaches as per the ARINC document.

Once you have the approach written, you compile with the BGLComp compiler and place the new bgl as part of your scenery file. Many of the Airport and Facility XML structure data can be placed into a single BGL as per the SDK eliminating the need for multiple bgl's that many designers use.

To test your Approach data you must set the weather to less then 3 miles to see if ATC will honor the new approach and vector both the User Plane and AI plane on to a 30 degree offset heading for final. Once you know ATC is using the new Approach data then you can bring the visibility back up above 3miles. That test is needed so the hard code altitude of 2000 ft agl is no longer used in the .dll and your new XML approach vectors to final plus altitude is used.

There are many embedded ATC commands/instructions hidden in the XML approach data including which way ATC will turn the aircraft on a missed approach (left or right).

hope this helps
 
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