• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

    • Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
    • Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
    • Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
    • Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
    • Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
    • Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.

    Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.

    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

Copyright

Messages
516
The sad truth is that litigation has become an industry in itself..

I think back to a time twenty years ago when as a teenager I wrote to BAE asking if they had any drawings of the EAP (a fighter technology prototype similar looking to the Typhoon) because I wanted to build an R/C model. Instead of the legal rebuff I'd likely get these days, they sent me *masses* of desgin drawings, publicity materials, photos, cut-aways, etc. and a very nice hand-written letter full of enthusiam for my own enthusiam!

I looked at a particular aircraft manufacturers website not too long ago and somewhere within the "Contact Us" page there were words to the effect of 'we're aware people build models of our products. Please do not contact us requesting information, we don't want to talk to you.'

Si
 

rhumbaflappy

Administrator
Staff member
Resource contributor
Messages
5,779
Country
us-wisconsin
Hi Si.

That is a sad truth that enthusiasm and support fueled by goodwill and engineers, has now become corporate paranoia and threats fueled by greed and controlled by lawyers.

Dick
 

n4gix

Resource contributor
Messages
11,674
Country
unitedstates
As an addendum to my above mentioned Boeing document, what is especially annoying is that the proximate cause for Boeing's actions stems from a lawsuit brought by parents who's son nearly choked to death on an engine nacelle from a Revell 747 plastic model...

Yep, you read that right, the parent's tried to sue Boeing, not Revell! :rolleyes:
 

rhumbaflappy

Administrator
Staff member
Resource contributor
Messages
5,779
Country
us-wisconsin
The root of the evil is the parent's lawyers tried to sue Boeing. We become the beneficiaries of Boeing's paranoia, as a result. And in turn, we become paranoid of corporations turning on us as we develop our hobby or small business.

Dick
 

arno

Administrator
Staff member
FSDevConf team
Resource contributor
Messages
32,337
Country
netherlands
Hi,

Exactly. And I suspect some posters would have a completely different opinion if it had been the case where a FS developer had contracted with a 3rd party to develop a mesh for it and the 3rd party then claimed it had copyright in the mesh.

I think that is a quite common situation in the FS world. I have heard of cases where the models are owned by the designer and not by the company publishing the addon. So that means the developer can take them to another publisher later on if he wants. The same can apply with subcontractors of course. It all depends on the agreement made.
 

mgh

Messages
1,413
Country
unitedkingdom
Hi,



I think that is a quite common situation in the FS world. I have heard of cases where the models are owned by the designer and not by the company publishing the addon. So that means the developer can take them to another publisher later on if he wants. The same can apply with subcontractors of course. It all depends on the agreement made.

That is true but doesn't affect the question of what can or can't be copyrighted.

Incidentally, the FSX credits say it's produced under licence from Boeing and Red Bull. That's presumably because inter alia Boeing's House Livery is used on a 747 and Red Bull's on an Extra.
 
Messages
141
Country
canada
Re. watermarking 3D meshes for copyright purposes.

Microsoft said:
We describe a robust watermarking scheme suitable for proving
ownership claims on triangle meshes representing surfaces in 3D.
The explosive growth of the Web has led to a blossoming interest
in the electronic publication of various media. Unfortunately, many
owners of digital materials, such as images, video, audio, text, and
3D models, are reluctant to distribute their documents on the Web
or other networked environment, because the ease of duplicating
digital material facilitates copyright violation. Digital watermarks
provide a mechanism for copyright protection of digital media by
http://www.cs.princeton.edu/gfx/proj/meshwm
allowing people to permanently mark their documents and thereby
prove claims of authenticity or ownership.

Copyright categories are very broad…
Mesh models are written in high-level programming languages...
therefore best classified as programs...
which are best classified as literature...that's my take.
...but never ask an artist for legal advice.
 
Last edited:

mgh

Messages
1,413
Country
unitedkingdom
The software to do that is commercially available here as MeshMark. It's only of use if the mesh is copyrightable.
 
Messages
141
Country
canada
It's only of use if the mesh is copyrightable.
Exactly...
Applications
3D graphics models
3D animation character models
3D games
3D terrain models for geographic information systems
 
Last edited:
Messages
141
Country
canada
It can be argued, as the Utah court did and as we commented to start, that a digital scan is not creative or interpretive. It is a statement of fact so to speak…like a clinical photo.The data is not interpretive or creative. The points are where they are because that is where they have been located on the original object…the work of the original creator. Like a photo without artistry.

But hand-built meshes are like paintings, there is tremendous interpretation, creative skill, and artistry. The data is not fact, it is a molders interpretation. Fair to say not every court will agree where to draw the line, and not every model is an identical case. There is originality and no two of one subject will be the same.
 
Last edited:

n4gix

Resource contributor
Messages
11,674
Country
unitedstates
The software to do that is commercially available here as MeshMark. It's only of use if the mesh is copyrightable.

Yikes! Two-thousand Euros? I'll stick with my manual mesh watermarking process...
 

mgh

Messages
1,413
Country
unitedkingdom
dmaher

My point was that copyright protection is limited and not as strong as is often thought. As another example, in the US a "useful article" cannot be copyright. It may be protected under patent law.

n4gix

My eyes watered too!
 

hcornea

Resource contributor
Messages
2,388
Country
australia
EUR2000

Yep, I'd want it to make the mesh for that.

Funny how this isn't incorporated into Max in some way already (or is it? he wonders)
 
Messages
946
Country
panama
The sad truth is that litigation has become an industry in itself..

I think back to a time twenty years ago when as a teenager I wrote to BAE asking if they had any drawings of the EAP (a fighter technology prototype similar looking to the Typhoon) because I wanted to build an R/C model. Instead of the legal rebuff I'd likely get these days, they sent me *masses* of desgin drawings, publicity materials, photos, cut-aways, etc. and a very nice hand-written letter full of enthusiam for my own enthusiam!

I looked at a particular aircraft manufacturers website not too long ago and somewhere within the "Contact Us" page there were words to the effect of 'we're aware people build models of our products. Please do not contact us requesting information, we don't want to talk to you.'

Si

It´s the awful times we are living today my friend. I like to read "Real Commercial Pilots Forums" and it is actually very scary what they write!!! the world today is run by greed at extremes which gives us a peek of how ugly it will be for our grandchildren.....BUT, there are still great groups today, not many. I build solid wood models and it´s incredible how cooperative people are at the Smithsonian Air Museum in Washington D.C.. I had a guy search for a B-18 Plan in hangars they have of unclassified documents for three months..he found it and sent it to me free of any charge!!!! great people there!!!:)
 
Top