• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

    • Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
    • Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
    • Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
    • Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
    • Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
    • Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.

    Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.

    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

Does Such a utility exist for P3d or anyone know how to make one?

Messages
15
Country
us-virginia
Hello,

So I came across this utility on avsim for FS2004 called MH's Airport Altitude Update V1.0 https://library.avsim.net/search.ph...titude+Update+V1.0&CatID=fs2004util&Go=Search it seems to be a great concept and what a lot of people were hoping that ORBX Global Vector would do (after some research my understanding is global vector does not change altitudes but rather just deletes conflicting bgls from orbx scenery) But seems like there is some need for a P3d version of this in order to make old afcads more readily useable; rather than doing each airport individually in ADE which can be time consuming... So does anyone know if there is a P3d version of this or how to make one for P3d? Thanks,
 
Messages
99
Country
madagascar
WOW ! That's some smart tool I've never heard of.
I don't own any ORBX thing, but I understand vectors (polygons) and meshes can change terrain (shape and elevation), hence make things float or burry in the ground, on some simulators.
You said "vector". Maybe we are not talking about the same thing, but "vector datas" in BGL do contain elevation data (roads, rivers, flattens, land or water areas...) The "vector" word simply means, instead of modeling 3D objects to display rivers and roads, let use points and lines instead with parameters like lat/lon or X/Z/Y displacement relative to a fixed local reference coordinate to define what is where. Then the simulator performs the 3D modifications and texturing (onto the loaded mesh) to visually render the elements (flat or 3D).
With that understanding, and assuming P3D (all versions ? - I don't know) handles slopped airports, solving the issue would not be just a matter of finding airports and flatten polygon only, assert the airport reference point is inside the flatten, and create new ADE (previously Afcad) updates for each airport, as the tool you linked appears to achieve - that's my guess -
That ultimately works in FS9 (as long as there are no conflicting VTP poly on the same location) because FS9 engine is a flat world. FSX is round (discrete surface of a sphere), I'm assuming some early P3D versions are the same as FSX, and some latest P3D versions only make moving objects stick to the ground when not airborne.

I'm not aware of an equivalent tool for P3D. But you asked how such tool would be designed, aaaaaaannnnnndddd, it would be a nightmare I guess.
Though, it also appears I'm contradicting myself : P3D = handles slopes ? Question is : why then P3D doesn't make the airport stick to the ground surface altered by BGL addons (ORBX for instance) ? Maybe only newer P3D versions can do that, or, the airport ground elements are not in the format that can stick to the ground (3D objects like buildings, and 3D ground photoreal aprons, tarmac and runways that lacks the proper BGL command in the BGL file to make them stick to the ground), or, some P3D versions can't make AI aircraft stick to the ground, but use instead the airport reference point, or something else. My latest sim is FSX because... potato computer, sorry.

= it's unclear at this point if you're talking about floating/burried airports or sceneries, floating/sinking user aircraft, or/and floating/sinking AI aircraft... =
Such a tool would be a mix of ADE and SBuilder with wizard capability to fix elevation mismatches, and maybe an inclusion of ModelConverterX to alter ground polygons (but ADE would be able to do that aswell). That means a new tool would be 80% a rework of those I just mentionned, and 20% the wizard thing that scans simulator stock data and addon data..... I have little hope if the feature does not get the attention of authors of the said tools.
 
Messages
15
Country
us-virginia
Ok... Let me catch you up... So the Global Vector is an Orbx product here are some links to help you understand:




The first pic is an example of what I am referring to notice how the airplane is sunk into the ground... If there is a mismatch between the airport elevation in the afcad and cvx bgls; and the mesh elevation then the airport will either give the appearance of floating just above the ground or being sunk into the ground....

https://orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/179079-london-city-elevation-problem/

The link (avsim) I sent to the MH tool (aau10.zip) contains an elevation scanner and editor as an .exe file about 269kb in size that corrects the afcad and cxv elevations to match the elevation of the terrain mesh... Thus getting rid of the issue...
 
Messages
99
Country
madagascar
Global VECTOR
Accurately show every coastline, river, lake, motorway, major road, railway line and millions of other details...
^^ that's exactly what I thought. Those are vector datas (roads, coastline, river, lake, etc.) and they do have elevation data, whether compiled in the old format (VTP/LWM), or the format introduced in FSX (CVX), or an hypothetical, but to be expected even newer format I'm unaware of for P3D (and likely MSFS 2020). But yeah, whatever the format, vector data pretty much stands for the same concept. Thing is, tools we had that edit/compile BGL for a given sim (FS9) tend to not work for newer sims (FSX, P3D, etc.) - I'm keeping myself updated on all those formats and changes by reading a lot, because at some point, I will get P3D or even directly MSFS (probably v2).

EGLC example :
So it's user aircraft. Right off the start, it's either :
- an airport floating in thin air (yes, that's very easy to do in all FS) without a flatten, and objects that requires a ground elevation (your aircraft, objects which elevation is relative to the ground level...) will sink (the tarmac you see is a fake ground. The real ground is the mesh hidden below, and poking out at some places here and there.
- or there is one or several flattens, but they don't cover the entire area, and this is understandable if the airport is slopped (P3D). I may be wrong, but as P3D is supposed to handle slopped airports, it does not make sense to flatten them. It would make sense to directly use a very detailed mesh, or create custom slopped vector polygons. But in this case (EGLC), the airport is quite flat (no slope required) so it would be easier to just make a flatten.
When you see jagged blurry runways like that, it's because it's phototerrain following the mesh. You correct this with another mesh (bad idea), a flatten (but you lose slope) or vector polygon (but you'll have problems with ground polygon).
Try-it, create a flatten with SBuilder outlining the airport, compile, and install in a scenery folder with highest priority (create one if the EGLC is topmost, never mix original addon and modifications in the same folder).

If there is a mismatch between the airport elevation in the afcad and cvx bgls; and the mesh elevation then the airport will either give the appearance of floating just above the ground or being sunk into the ground...
That's correct. I may point out (1) ADE/Afcad, (2) CVX/Vector section, (3) Mesh and (4) Flattens elevations are four different scenery datas located at four different places/files or sections in a same file. That means, fixing elevation requires you to setup each elevation data in the right order (addon scenery priority). Vector and Flatten elevations override mesh. Airport (Afcad) elevation has to stick with a vector, a mesh or a flatten, whichever is the topmost in scenery priority. There is a fith elevation type called (5) Platform, which comes at play only and only if your aircraft is landing on that platform (a platform can be invisible). Why it is important ? A platform, as I suspect is setup on that EGLC scenery only work with user aircraft. Everything else will stick on the terrain elevation below.

(aau10.zip) contains an elevation scanner and editor as an .exe file about 269kb in size that corrects the afcad and cxv elevations to match the elevation of the terrain mesh...
Not quite (I've read the readme_AU) :
- the app doesn't check for mesh elevation
- the app doesn't touch CVX and doesn't change flattens
The app is for FS9 (and to some extent for FSX flatten BGLs). CVX is a BGL format introduced with FSX, and different from FS9-era BGLs. The app looks for VTP flattens (Vector Tile Polygons) which are inside FS9 FL*****.bgl base files (not a CVX), the BGL format type reminiscent of a format introduced with FS7 (FS2000). Those FS9 flattens are very easy to locate and read inside those files. The Afcad/ADE part being parsing AP*****.bgl files, finding the airport records to get the reference point (lat/lon) and altitude, and match that ref lies inside one entry of a preloaded list of flatten polygons. The app doesn't fix the flattens (very difficult to achieve on FS9, and probably even more on FSX, likely a hell on P3D). Instead, it simply overrides the altitude of the airport by adding new Afcad/ADE bgls (overrides the AP****.bgl files).
As explained above, to address an issue, the relevant datas (files) has to be checked. There is no way to enforce a fix on a flatten (FL****.bgl) when your simulator only cares about CVX (P3D I believe ?), or to raise EGLC from the river via an ADE/Afcad when it appears a flatten (or whatever it is called in P3D) is missing.

The program "MH's Airport Altitude Update" scans a selected folder and its subfolders for scenery files containing flatten data (old and new format). Based on a airport position list it determines if a stock airport reference point lies within those flatten polygon, and if the original airport altitude and the new altitude differ more than 2cm. If yes, a XML file is created containing the correct airport altitude which is then compiled to a BGL file using BGLComp (requires FS2004 BGLComp SDK)
^^, then a note about FSX states that the process for FSX is the exact same (FL****.bgl) - it is important to check if P3D has FL****.bgl files and if those files covers the entire world, or are superseeded by new bgl with new formats.

Note : you're on the FSDevelopper's forum. It is expected we provide explanations on the developping and technical aspect of the features, files format, coexistence and role in the sim, also developpement applications and how to do what, not provide the absolute exact fix for ORBX vectors or EGLC scenery (unless the authors are here on FSDev), because, we don't have the source files. We don't know what EGLC used to make that airport surface. (?) Is it phototerrain (sticks to the mesh), or ground polygons (3D object with or without platform), or vector polygons with texture (stick to vector elevations that overrides mesh).
On the developper aspect of the issues, I feel a little astonished by the lack of understanding of the problem complexity by many people while reading the topic on ORBX :
Yes, having an higher mesh precision (5m instead of 10m) is obviously a must have. For sceneries with elevation variation in a so tight place like EGLC (airport bounds) requires you to raise the mesh complexity up. Furthermore, some issues are specific to some user's system. The PBR thing from P3D v4 (or v4.5 ?) introduced some texture priority bleed through. And with or without PBR, some graphic cards on some Windows versions induce flickering on ground (this is a known issue since FS2002), which solution is either using an older way of creating ground polygons (and dropping PBR), or wait for a graphic card driver update or windows patch.
Also, there is potentially other addons involved messing up things on some user's system. How can we be sure there is no addon Afcad/ADE with new parkings, taxi layouts and different reference elevation that overrides the original EGLC afcad ? That's enough to create the issue, and experience taught me users often overlook that possibility; not to critique for free, but FS/P3D is so easy to break with so little things, I prefer to waste one hour double checking on my side than waiting 24 hours, days, months or years on a forum support because I refuse to check.
EDIT : And I don't understand how and why some people are stating there are missing files ??? Missing (and or conflicting) files = problems, that's not new.
 
Last edited:
Top