FSX Editing Ground Textures for Updated Airport Scenery

GaryGB · 7 Feb 2018

kmanning said:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-791998

I assume you probably use Photoshop and I wanted to ask you a question about that. Adobe has them at different price ranges and I was thinking about getting the one for $10.00 a month. But before I do, does that one do everything that the higher prices offer? I guess what I should say is will this one do and have everything I need to do editing as I'm doing now? I'm been debating on it but I wanted to find out more about it. I also wanted to know for sure that if I don't use it, say for 6 months, can I just pay for it as I need it? It seems like someone told me that I could do that but I don't know if that's true.

Ken.

Hi Ken:

I do not use Adobe PhotoShop on a routine basis, as I have been a user of Corel PhotoPaint and CorelDraw for many years; those graphics applications offer comparable and more extensive feature sets / capabilities as those in Adobe's PhotoShop and Illustrator.

They also don't compel me to "subscribe" online, or launch the application and then go out to lunch while waiting for them to load. :laughing:

If you do not need greater speed / specialized feature sets of more sophisticated graphics applications, GIMP may work OK for you. :pushpin:

However, those of us who have been around in the FS development community for years, also appreciate the fact that a 'free-to-use' JASC PaintShop Pro version 4.x (yet another popular graphics application since the early days of FS development) reportedly still works in Windows-10, and was already supporting layers and Alpha channels in that version.

GaryGB

GaryGB · 8 Feb 2018

kmanning said:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-791947

This is where I'm running into problems regarding editing those text textures. I did not have any problem importing the KDFW_DET10.TIF into Gimp, and I clicked on "Open as Layer." It laid on top of the other layer where I just cloned out the number 2.

My problem is figuring out how to make that number 9 text larger and the same size as the C3--. I tried selecting it with the Selection Tool and it doesn't do anything but select it. It can't make it bigger nor move it or anything. It seems to me I should be able to select any of those text numbers and edit them.

I've tried using the text font to edit the text image and that seems to work but I still need to put the thin black boarder around the "9" decal. I watched a tutorial video on how to edit a text and it showed how to put a border around the text. So, I'm going to try it and see how that works. I really prefer to use the KDFW_DET10.TIF and edit if I can ever learn how to do it.

Ken.

AFAIK, based on "educated guesses" from the online documentation for GIMP, one would:

1.) File > Open KDFW_DET10.TIF

2.) Tools > Zoom in on the "9" numeric character

3.) Tools > Selection Tools > Fuzzy Select Tool (aka "Magic Wand") to create a "Selection" ...using Tool Settings of:

a.) Mode: Replace the current Selection

b.) Anti-aliasing: 'Checked'

c.) Threshold: 175 - 200

4.) Click on the "9" numeric character to select it in its entirety

5.) Edit > Copy

6.) Edit > Paste As > New Image

7.) Image > Transform > Flip Vertically

[EDITED]

8.) Image > Scale Image > < Image Size dialog opens >

a.) Set Scale method to Percent (%) by clicking pick-list button next to 'chain' ('lock') button

b.) Click 'chain' button to 'Lock' both Width and Height parameter values into synch

c.) In Image Size dialog - Width: select "100.00" parameter value > over-strike with "700.00"

d.) In Image Size dialog - Height: select "100.00" parameter value > over-strike with "700.00" (both Width and Height should now be 700.00")

e.) Set Quality > Interpolation: Cubic

f.) Click [Scale] button

[END_EDIT]

9.) Edit > Copy the "9" numeric character to the Windows Clipboard

Next, in GIMP:

Open your TIFF image file screen capture of the C32 marking and nearby apron surface (taken in a FSX flight at FSDT KDFW)

NOTE: This assumes that in GIMP, you have already "Cloned" nearby Apron textures to replace the "2" numeric character in the original "C32" marking area.

1.) Edit > Paste the copied "9" numeric character from the Windows Clipboard

2.) Tools > Selection Tools > Fuzzy Select Tool > Mouse left-click+hold and 'move' the pasted "9" numeric character into a desired position

3.) Layer > Anchor Layer

4.) Tools > Paint Tools > Paintbrush ...using Tool Settings in Paintbrush - Tool Options

a.) Mode: Normal

b.) Opacity: 15.0 (percent)

c.) Brush: 2. Hardness 050 (percent)

d.) Size: 5.00 (pixels)

5.) Paint a Black border around the "9" numeric character as desired

6.) Export As: > < 'Export Image' dialog opens >

a.) In 'Export Image' dialog > click "[+]" next to "Select File Type (By Extension)" > click to select TIFF image (Extensions: TIF, TIFF)

b.) Click [Export] button < 'Export Image as TIFF' dialog opens >

c.) In 'Export Image as TIFF' dialog:

(1) Compression: None

(2) Save color values from transparent pixels: 'checked'

(3) Click [Export] button

You should now have a "C39" texture image to be mapped onto your Sketchup flat 3D 'Face' of the original "C32" marking 18 x 10 foot area

Let me know if you find any errors / omissions in the "educated guesses" I posted above as a possible GIMP work-flow.

GaryGB

kmanning · 8 Feb 2018

Hi Gary,

I thought I would upload this screenshot of my work of the C39. As you can see, you can tell that the 9 is not quite the same as the C3--- and has a different appearance. Of course, I think there's a special paint brush that might give it that same look. I also put a black, slightly larger number 9 layer under the main one to give it that border look, but it doesn't line up that well, and I used the same font, but just slight larger. The main thing is that I'm learning how to edit and doing it correctly. I'll try your instructions and let you know how it comes out. Thanks for you help.

Ken.

kmanning · 9 Feb 2018

Hi Gary,

Here's the only problem I ran into. Where it says 'Save color values from transparent pixels,' I cannot check it because it is grayed out. But let me say this, and it may explain why it's grayed out. Where you said to paint a Black border around the "9" numeric character as desired, I did not do that because the 9 already has a boarder around it, and it matches the other boarders. So, I did not do this procedure. Would that be the reason for that box being grayed out?

Now, here's the thing I don't understand. Noticed the difference in the colors of the C3 and the 9. The C3 is sort of a beige color and the 9 is yellow. Why is the 9 yellow and a different color from the C3? When you open the KDFW_DET10.dds file, the colors are the same and they all match. Here's the screenshot of my work:

It turned out good, other than the yellow color. The only thing I know to do is to clone it from the C3. Is that what I need to do?

Oh, there is one thing I suggest. Where you said "Image > Scale Image > < Image Size dialog opens>" at number 8, I would put where you said "Set Scale method to Percent (%) by clicking pick-list button next to chain (lock) button" at 8a, and not 8c. This needs to be done prior to entering any number because by default, this box is set to Pixels. At least, that's what mine was set at and I never changed it. If this box is set to pixels, entering 700 in the width will not yield a 700 in the height. At 8b, the chain is already set to lock, but it would be a good idea to say something like "make sure chain is locked." This is where I ran into one problem until I came to 8c where you said to set it to percentage. Other than that, it looks like you had it on the nail. The one thing I figured out about Gimp is that when you have all these windows open and you're following these instructions, you have to make sure you're on the correct window or the actions you take won't work.

Ken.

kmanning · 9 Feb 2018

Hi Gary,

There's one thing I did noticed about the border you told me to paint, after I cloned the number 9. It's not quite as dark as the C3. So, I'm going to paint it following your instructions.

Ken.

GaryGB · 9 Feb 2018

kmanning said:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-792116

Hi Gary,

Here's the only problem I ran into. Where it says 'Save color values from transparent pixels,' I cannot check it because it is grayed out. But let me say this, and it may explain why it's grayed out. Where you said to paint a Black border around the "9" numeric character as desired, I did not do that because the 9 already has a boarder around it, and it matches the other boarders. So, I did not do this procedure. Would that be the reason for that box being grayed out?

On my computer, the work-flow detailed above results in an existing, non-grayed-out, 'checked' checkbox for: "Save color values from transparent pixels" :scratchch

The source texture image: KDFW_DET10.TIF contains an Alpha transparency attribute which should have carried over during the various steps of working with the "9" character and pasting it into your TIFF image file screen capture of the C32 marking and nearby apron surface (taken in a FSX flight at FSDT KDFW).

Did you use TIFF as the file format for your screen capture of the C32 marking and nearby apron surface (taken in a FSX flight at FSDT KDFW) ?

If you did not use TIFF as the file format for your screen capture of the C32 marking and nearby apron surface (taken in a FSX flight at FSDT KDFW), it may have not inherited the KDFW_DET10.TIF Alpha transparency attribute for the copied / edited "9" numeric character ...when pasted into the screen capture image. :alert:

kmanning said:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-792116

Now, here's the thing I don't understand. Noticed the difference in the colors of the C3 and the 9. The C3 is sort of a beige color and the 9 is yellow. Why is the 9 yellow and a different color from the C3? When you open the KDFW_DET10.dds file, the colors are the same and they all match. Here's the screenshot of my work:

View attachment 39564

It turned out good, other than the yellow color. The only thing I know to do is to clone it from the C3. Is that what I need to do?

Yes, cloning the "orange-gold" color from an area within a nearby "C3_" character may work best to achieve matching colors on all numeric characters.

kmanning said:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-792116

Oh, there is one thing I suggest. Where you said "Image > Scale Image > < Image Size dialog opens>" at number 8, I would put where you said "Set Scale method to Percent (%) by clicking pick-list button next to chain (lock) button" at 8a, and not 8c. This needs to be done prior to entering any number because by default, this box is set to Pixels. At least, that's what mine was set at and I never changed it. If this box is set to pixels, entering 700 in the width will not yield a 700 in the height. At 8b, the chain is already set to lock, but it would be a good idea to say something like "make sure chain is locked." This is where I ran into one problem until I came to 8c where you said to set it to percentage. Other than that, it looks like you had it on the nail. The one thing I figured out about Gimp is that when you have all these windows open and you're following these instructions, you have to make sure you're on the correct window or the actions you take won't work.

Ken.

See the edits I made to those steps within my post ...above:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-792026

GaryGB

kmanning · 9 Feb 2018

="GaryGB, post: 792167, member: 995"

On my computer, the work-flow detailed above results in an existing, non-grayed-out, 'checked' checkbox for: "Save color values from transparent pixels"

The only thing I can figure out is that I missed a certain step, which I don't see that I have, or I did something wrong in Gimp.

The source texture image: KDFW_DET10.TIF contains an Alpha transparency attribute which should have carried over during the various steps of working with the "9" character and pasting it into your TIFF image file screen capture of the C32 marking and nearby apron surface (taken in a FSX flight at FSDT KDFW).

Is that in regards to why the number 9 is yellow?

Did you use TIFF as the file format for your screen capture of the C32 marking and nearby apron surface (taken in a FSX flight at FSDT KDFW) ?

Yes, I used a TIFF file.

Yes, cloning the "orange-gold" color from an area within a nearby "C3_" character may work best to achieve matching colors on all numeric characters.

I wish there was another way and that the color of the 9 would come out right when I past it. I'm going to try something out and see if that could be the reason.

See the edits I made to those steps within my post ...above:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-792026

I'm going to start from scratch again and follow the edited post.

Ken.

GaryGB · 9 Feb 2018

Hi Ken:

The Material properties of the MDL-based FSDT KFDW scenery G-Polys determine how they appear in FS at run time.

We took a screen capture of the "C32" area from FS to get "closer" to how the texture Materials actually look at run time.

It may be possible in GIMP to adjust the Brightness / Contrast / Gamma / color Saturation / color RGB channels for the final "C39" texture Material mapped to the 3D model in Sketchup, to more closely match surrounding FSDT KFDW MDL-based G-Poly marking scenery objects placed / displayed by the FSDT Couatl Addon Manager.

I cannot predict how closely we will be able to match the original "C32" G-Poly markings, since this SCASM / ASM G-Poly has an older non-MDL-based 3D object BGL file format, and as such, it will have limited Material properties that are available for modification when compared to what a FSX / P3D MDL file would otherwise allow.

On the other hand, a graphics application 'may' exert even more control over how a texture looks than IMHO, is possible to achieve through the comparatively small group of 'Material properties' allowed by the Windows DirectX graphics sub-system feature set, and the even smaller sub-set of features actually implemented by ACES and/or LM for MDLs and other scenery objects.

So, with some testing you may find you can edit the replacment markings to be matched to your satisfaction.

GaryGB

kmanning · 10 Feb 2018

Hi Gary,

I found the problem, and I think it relates to that box where it says "Save color values from transparent pixels" First of all, when I saved the KDFW_det10.dds file as a TIFF, it saved it in a Windows Photo Viewer, but it was a tiff file. I thought this could be the reason but it wasn't, and I happen to notice that the colors of all those numbers were correct. The colors only changed when I opened it into Gimp as a TIFF file. So, I tried opening the KDFW_det10.dds file using IrfanView and the colors were correct. So, I tried opening the dds file in Gimp and I got an error saying that the file is not recognized. IrfanView opened the dds file but Gimp would not. So, I installed a dds plugin for Gimp and now I can open the file. When I open that file, it prompted me if I wanted to save color values from transparent pixels and I checked that box. Not only was I able to open the dds file, all the colors were correct. I got as far as clicking on the number 9 using the Fussy tool, and it would not select it. So, I used the Selection tool and I was able to select it. But I recall that I was supposed to open this file as a TIFF file. So, I discarded everything and opened the KDFW_det10.dds file in Gimp and exported it as a TIFF file. When I opened the KDFW_det10.tiff file in Gimp, the color of all the numbers, including the 9 were correct. Now, I can get this done without having to paint or cloning it. It looks perfect now:

I guess you noticed how the image is not in the center but off towards the top-left. I must have moved the whole image while I was editing. Well, I got quite of few of these to do so I guess I better get on it. Thanks so much for all your help. I have a few questions but I'll come back later.

Ken.

kmanning · 10 Feb 2018

Hi Gary,

Before going any farther, I thought I would compare the location of the C39 decal between that of google earth and those in the FSdreamteam KDFW file in FS, and they are not in the exact same location. I got the coordinates of the C32, which I'll be replacing with C39, using FSX and ADE and positioning the cross right over the decal. When I compared the coordinates, it was off 32 feet from that of google earth. So, I don't think using google earth is going to work, and I will need to use the coordinates, or location reference in the FSDreamteam KDFW file, and not google earth. Is there a way to get the coordinates of each of the decals without having to use FSX and ADE? Using ADE is the only way I know to get the coordinates from the original file but it will take quite a bit of time. I was wondering if their locations may be placed in an xml file.

Ken.

GaryGB · 10 Feb 2018

Hi Ken:

Regarding the transparency attribute in the TIFF source file discussed in the latter posts above, this is where the original work-flow probably inherited it:

GaryGB said:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-791289

In XnViewMP, convert a copy of the FSDT source texture into a TIFF file:

Browse / Open the above cited KDFW_32.DDS; then 'Save As' a *.TIF output graphic file format: KDFW_32.TIF

Browse / Open the above cited KDFW_DET10.DDS; then 'Save As' a *.TIF output graphic file format: KDFW_DET10.TIF

Glad to see you found an alternate way that still worked to your satisfaction. via GIMP.

BTW: A Google Earth KML file was used only to set decal orientation; actual Geographic coordinates will be entered manually into MCX G-Poly Wizard.

I have precise Geographic coordinates / Altitudes from FSUIPC for 'placing' the finished G-Poly compiled by SCASM / ASM which I can provide to you.

I will verify those Geographic coordinates / Altitudes again in FSX at FSDT KDFW for the C32 marking ...before I post that information for you this weekend.

PS: I do not recommend attempting to place via BGLComp, another MDL-based G-Poly into the same area of the original FSDT KDFW MDL-based G-Polys. :alert:

GaryGB

kmanning · 10 Feb 2018

="GaryGB, post: 792211, member: 995"

]Hi Ken:

The Google Earth KML file was only used to set the orientation of the decal; the actual Geographic coordinates will be entered manually into MCX G-Poly Wizard.

Oh, okay. It's for orientation only. But I also need to specify that the orientation of the decals in google earth and those in the FSDT KDFW are also totally different. Even their headings are not the same. So, it seems to me that if I'm going to place the C39 decal over the C32, and for it to be exactly right over it in the correct heading, and be in line with the long line that has the Tees, I would need to reference these to FSDT KDFW original markings.

I have precision Geographic coordinates and Altitudes for intended placement of the finished G-Poly compiled by SCASM / ASM which I can provide to you.

How do you get that?

I will verify those Geographic coordinates and Altitudes again in FSX at FSDT KDFW for the C32 marking ...before I post that information for you this weekend.

I will need these values for all of these gates, from C2 through C39. There're about 28 of them.

Ken.

GaryGB · 10 Feb 2018

Hi Ken:

You may wish to review this thread on options to derive Geographic Coordinates and Altitude of FS' ground surface to create a "Point From Aircraft" AGL: :idea:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/elevation-capture-for-sbuilder-x.436879/

The thread above also discusses use of GMan's excellent Finney Ground "Cross Hairs Plus" (aka "CH+") user aircraft to visualize the placement and derive Geographic Coordinates and Altitude of the 'ground surface' in TopDown, Locked Spot, and cockpit views (to access gauges for positioning readouts etc.).

FYI: You can use SBuilderX version 3.15 to do this, and copy logged 'Point' Geographic Coordinates into MCX G-Poly wizard to place SCASM / ASM G-Polys.

GaryGB

kmanning · 10 Feb 2018

GaryGB said:
Hi Ken:

You may wish to review this thread on options to derive Geographic Coordinates and Altitude of FS' ground surface to create a "Point From Aircraft" AGL:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/elevation-capture-for-sbuilder-x.436879/

The thread above also discusses use of GMan's excellent Finney Ground "Cross Hairs Plus" (aka "CH+") user aircraft to visualize the placement and derive Geographic Coordinates and Altitude of the 'ground surface' in TopDown, Locked Spot, and cockpit views (to access gauges for positioning readouts etc.).

FYI: You can use SBuilderX version 3.15 to do this, and copy logged 'Point' Geographic Coordinates into MCX G-Poly wizard to place SCASM / ASM G-Polys.

GaryGB

Okay, I'll review it. Regarding the Finney Ground Cross Hair Plus, where did you get it and how can I get one? I've done a search and I can't find one, that is the one for FSX.

Ken.

GaryGB · 10 Feb 2018

Hi Ken:

This is the links to download the CH+ packages:

https://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=chplus.zip&CatID=root&Go=Search

https://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=ch_pnl.zip&CatID=root&Go=Search

BTW: The texture needed for CH+ use in FSX is here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...-for-jersey-channel-islands.22634/post-150485

GaryGB

kmanning · 11 Feb 2018

GaryGB said:
Hi Ken:

This is the links to download the CH+ packages:

https://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=chplus.zip&CatID=root&Go=Search

https://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=ch_pnl.zip&CatID=root&Go=Search

BTW: The texture needed for CH+ use in FSX is here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...-for-jersey-channel-islands.22634/post-150485

GaryGB

Hi Gary,

I have the CH Crosshairs Plus installed and I like the way it works. I like the panel that gives me the coordinates, heads, and altitude. I don't know if there's a better way but I'm having to go to each parking spot and writing down the gate numbers, their coordinates, and headings using Notepad. I assume I'll need this information when I use the MCX. I wish it had a button where I can just click on it and it enter all the information into Notepad so that I won't have to write them down. It would be faster. By the way, some of those links you posted earlier are not valid and it has been taken down or moved.

Ken.

GaryGB · 11 Feb 2018

H Ken:

In SBuilderX:

Use "Point From Aircraft" to log the data from FSUIPC at the CH+ user aircraft position:

SBuilderX Menu > Help > {Search} tab > Search keywords: "Point From Aircraft" > Select Topics to display: "Working with Points, Line, and Polygons" > "Creating A Line"

[EDITED]

View the Background aerial imagery within the SBuilderX work-space:

SBuilderX Menu > View > Show Background (F1 function key)

* Center and Zoom in on KDFW in the aerial imagery Background displayed within the SBuilderX work-space using the Zoom Tool (Magnifying Glass):

SBuilderX Menu >Tools > Zoom

* Select Line Tool mode:

SBuilderX Menu >Tools > Line

* Draw a line by placing a vertex point at the center of each ground marking (to be replaced later by a G-Poly) using SBuilderX Background aerial imagery

[END_EDIT]

In FSX (loaded concurrent with the above task session of SBuilderX):

* Slew the CH+ user aircraft into the center position over each ground marking that you intend to replace

* Enable "Show aircraft":

SBuilderX Menu > View > Show aircraft

* Right-click on each point along the line (one-at-a-time) and select "Point From Aircraft" from the pop-up context menu:

NOTE: This will log FS' own data which will over-write existing data for the poly-line vertex points placed at the center of markings that you intend to replace

Also, when "Point From Aircraft" logs FS data to over-write existing data for the poly-line vertex points, that data is "corrected" to the position from FSX

Once data has been logged / updated in SBuilderX' dialog box for each point, you can Export that data into a BLN text file:

SBuilderX Menu > File > Export > Surfer BLN

The X,Y,Z (Lon,Lat,Alt) data in that *.BLN text file opened in ex: Windows NotePad ...can then be copied for use in decal placement via MCX G-Poly wizard. :pushpin:

GaryGB

kmanning · 13 Feb 2018

="GaryGB, post: 792359, member: 995

View the aerial imagery background in SBuilderX work-space, then:

* Zoom in on KDFW

* Draw a line by placing a vertex point at the center of each ground marking that you intend to replace.

Hi Gary,

I'm confused and it appears that you've given me 2 steps in drawing and placing the vertex. The first time, you told me to draw and place the vertex in the ground image before I enable the Show Aircraft in SbuilderX. The second time, you told me to do the same thing again after enabling the Show Aircraft. In the first step, why do I need to draw a line by placing a vertex point when I don't have anything to use as a reference that will match the FSDT KDFW ground markings? The only time I have that reference is after I enable the 'Show Aircraft' in SbuilderX. So in the first step, how do I know where to draw and place those vertexes?

Ken.

GaryGB · 13 Feb 2018

kmanning said:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-792430

Hi Gary,

I'm confused and it appears that you've given me 2 steps in drawing and placing the vertex. The first time, you told me to draw and place the vertex in the ground image before I enable the Show Aircraft in SbuilderX. The second time, you told me to do the same thing again after enabling the Show Aircraft. In the first step, why do I need to draw a line by placing a vertex point when I don't have anything to use as a reference that will match the FSDT KDFW ground markings? The only time I have that reference is after I enable the 'Show Aircraft' in SbuilderX. So in the first step, how do I know where to draw and place those vertexes?

Ken.

Hi Ken:

Please review the new edits to my post above, which further explain the step I had originally posted for viewing an SBuilderX aerial imagery Background:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-792359

NOTE: SBuilderX' place-holder vertex Geographic coordinate and Altitude values are replaced / corrected by FSX data ...when "Point From Aircraft" is used. :pushpin:

GaryGB

kmanning · 13 Feb 2018

="GaryGB, post: 792359, member: 995

* Center and Zoom in on KDFW in the aerial imagery Background displayed within the SBuilderX work-space using the Zoom Tool (Magnifying Glass):

SBuilderX Menu >Tools > Zoom

* Select Line Tool mode:

SBuilderX Menu >Tools > Line

* Draw a line by placing a vertex point at the center of each ground marking (to be replaced later by a G-Poly) using SBuilderX Background aerial imagery

Did I do this correctly?

In FSX (loaded concurrent with the above task session of SBuilderX):

* Slew the CH+ user aircraft into the center position over each ground marking that you intend to replace

Here, I have it centered but I'm inside FS using the FSDT ground markings in top down view:

Here's a screenshot inside SbuilderX. Notice the red cross just below the C39 indicating the real position of my aircraft when it's centered over the C32 in FS:

So, am I doing this correctly so far?

Ken.