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FSX Editing Ground Textures for Updated Airport Scenery

#61
Hi Ken:

Each of the images attached in your post above looks like I would expect it to. :)

This illustrates a slight difference in placement precision between tile server aerial imagery in SBuilderX background maps and FSDT KDFW G-Polys in FSX. ;)

I do not know whether the difference in placement precision is due to GIS projection of source files or insufficient bit depth in the FSDT Couatl Addon Manager.

GaryGB
 
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#62
Hi David,
Have you read my post above, I think it's number 28, because I haven't heard from you. Here's the post below:


Hi David,

Thanks for posting your work flow on these instructions. I did learn one thing. The one thing I was doing wrong was that I was using Sketchup to create the texture, which I probably could have, but I noticed you were using Photoshop to create the texture. Then you used Sketcup to make the plane. That cleared some things up. I don't have Photoshop yet so I used Gimp, but I had to figure out how to use it. I've noticed in Photoshop you don't have to go through several menus just to open, or do a certain thing. All the tools and buttons are right there at your disposal. I followed all the things you posted and I'm still not getting anywhere with it. Well, I've done everything up to where I use IS3. Let me explain everything I did and maybe you can tell me what I'm doing wrong, or have not done, in order to get the results.

I created the texture in Gimp. Then I open Sketchup, imported the texture onto a plain as you described. But I did not raise it few centimeters as explained in one video. I exported and saved it as a dae, or collada file onto my desktop. I opened MCX and imported it. I opened the Material Editor and changed the Z-bias to 2, clicked the button to set to power of 2s, saved the textures, and exported the model. When I exported the model, I used the Export Object button and not the Export Scenery button. Next, I opened the Library Creator XML. But I'm confused and don't understand the purpose for this, but I did follow your instruction. You said to add the tile model and compile it. Well, I've downloaded the development version 3.0 but this one dose not have a Compile button. But the version 2 has a Compile button. I watched Arnos video tutorial on how to use this version and he's made some changes. From what I understand from Arno's video, and correct me if I'm wrong, I clicked the "Save Library" button and a dialog box pops up which contains the 2 fields, Save Library BGL and Save Library XML. So, apparently, this is where I save it as a bgl file. But the problem is that I'm not sure if I'm supposed to save these to a certain folder. From what I understand from Arno's video, It sound like he said save it to any folder you want, but correct me if I'm wrong. I just saved it to a folder on my desktop. At first, you said to place the bgl and texture in the corresponding KDFW folders, then you said to place the bgl and the texture in the KDFW Scenery folder. I think you meant to say place the bgl in the Scenery folder and the texture in the Texture folder, and that's what I did. Everything seemed to work up to this point. When I load the simulator and open the IS3, I don't see my created ground texture in the menu that pops up when you open IS3. It's nowhere in that list of scenery objects, so I'm not doing something right. I wasted hours trying to figure out why it's not showing up but I have not figured out why. Could you explain?

Oh buy the way, what is the Z - bias for? Is that for raising the plain 2 millimeters or centimeters?
Sorry Ken, had not been in this thread for a while, and I wasn't getting notifications either. The purpose of the Library Creator is to create a model based library that you can open with IS3 when FS is loaded. You navigate to the resulting library bgl and pick up your numbering plane model from there.

On the latest Library Creator version, just use the save button, it automatically creates a bgl with the same name as the library xml file. No, it cannot just be on your desktop. Just place the bgl inside your DFW scenery folder so IS3 can access it. Or you can also create another scenery folder within Addon Scenery and place it there, just make sure to activate your new scenery folder, otherwise IS3 won't be able to find it. Remember that IS3 only reads the libraries wihtin the activated sceneries on your Scenery Library. Put the texture on the texture folder of the scenery where you placed the library bgl.

The Z bias I believe is in mm. Since the polygon is so small, 2 is enough. If for some reason it flickers, use 3 and so on.

David
 
#63
Hi David:

AFAIK, the topic under discussion for this thread is, as stated in Ken's opening post subject field:

[ FSX ] Editing Ground Textures for Updated Airport Scenery

IIUC, FSX and P3Dv1.4x MDLs do not utilize Z-Bias for Material Properties which was implemented for P3D versions 2,x,3.x,4,x MDLs in the LM-P3D SDK.

Also, there is likely to be significant and objectionable "Z-buffer fighting" / "flickering" between existing FSDT KDFW FSX-MDL-based G-Polys and even (1) additional new "C39" FSX MDL-based G-Poly,

Any such a new FSX MDL-based G-Polys would have to be placed via BGLComp, AGL, and in close proximity to the ground in approximately 8" intervals above one another to avoid such anomalies ...in an effort to 'cover up' the FSDT KDFW FSX-MDL-based G-Poly which has the "C32" ground marking.

IMHO, by the time one raises the Altitude (in elevation units of fractional Meters) of such a FSX MDL-based G-Poly placed via BGLComp to be AGL in approximately 8" intervals above other co-incident FSX-MDL-based G-Polys from the FSDT KDFW scenery to avoid such anomalies in all aircraft camera views except TopDown, one will have an objectionable visual appearance of the user aircraft wheels sinking into the "apron" / parking area surface.

This is why I have recommended that Ken utilize a legacy format SCASM / ASM-based G-Poly which utilizes the FS2Kx option of Z-Bias for display of the "C39" texture Material via the VTP layering system instead of attempting to utilize a FSX-MDL-based G-Poly. ;)

GaryGB
 
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#64
Gary I'm with you, but for FSX if the mdl based G poly flickers.....adding an empty LOD seems to solve the issue (perhaps it eases z-buffer fighting). And yes, the wheels do seem to sink if one takes too much Z bias or offset elevation liberty.

The g-poly I generated for this example seems to work just fine, but I am running V3 (have not tested FSX, to which I would assume I would add a slight offset and NO_SHADOW). Your method is the definite one, I just thought the OP would benefit from having an alternate way of skinning that cat. ;-)
 
#65
Sorry Ken, had not been in this thread for a while, and I wasn't getting notifications either. The purpose of the Library Creator is to create a model based library that you can open with IS3 when FS is loaded. You navigate to the resulting library bgl and pick up your numbering plane model from there.

On the latest Library Creator version, just use the save button, it automatically creates a bgl with the same name as the library xml file. No, it cannot just be on your desktop. Just place the bgl inside your DFW scenery folder so IS3 can access it. Or you can also create another scenery folder within Addon Scenery and place it there, just make sure to activate your new scenery folder, otherwise IS3 won't be able to find it. Remember that IS3 only reads the libraries wihtin the activated sceneries on your Scenery Library. Put the texture on the texture folder of the scenery where you placed the library bgl.

The Z bias I believe is in mm. Since the polygon is so small, 2 is enough. If for some reason it flickers, use 3 and so on.

David

Hi David,

That's okay. There have been times when I didn't get a notification too. Thanks for all your help. Now, I better understand how to use IS3 as well as the Library Creator. In the past when I would try to install a scenery, or model such as this, I could never find it. It was because I never ran the Library Creator, and I didn't understand it that well. I finally found it in the manual but to me, the manual is not good at keeping subjects in order. And it was kind of hidden so to speak. But now, I understand how to do it.

Ken.
 
#66
Hi David:

AFAIK, the topic under discussion for this thread is, as stated in Ken's opening post subject field:

[ FSX ] Editing Ground Textures for Updated Airport Scenery

IIUC, FSX and P3Dv1.4x MDLs do not utilize Z-Bias for Material Properties which was implemented for P3D versions 2,x,3.x,4,x MDLs in the LM-P3D SDK.

Also, there is likely to be significant and objectionable "Z-buffer fighting" / "flickering" between existing FSDT KDFW FSX-MDL-based G-Polys and even (1) additional new "C39" FSX MDL-based G-Poly,

Any such a new FSX MDL-based G-Polys would have to be placed via BGLComp, AGL, and in close proximity to the ground in approximately 8" intervals above one another to avoid such anomalies ...in an effort to 'cover up' the FSDT KDFW FSX-MDL-based G-Poly which has the "C32" ground marking.

IMHO, by the time one raises the Altitude (in elevation units of fractional Meters) of such a FSX MDL-based G-Poly placed via BGLComp to be AGL in approximately 8" intervals above other co-incident FSX-MDL-based G-Polys from the FSDT KDFW scenery to avoid such anomalies in all aircraft camera views except TopDown, one will have an objectionable visual appearance of the user aircraft wheels sinking into the "apron" / parking area surface.

This is why I have recommended that Ken utilize a legacy format SCASM / ASM-based G-Poly which utilizes the FS2Kx option of Z-Bias for display of the "C39" texture Material via the VTP layering system instead of attempting to utilize a FSX-MDL-based G-Poly. ;)

GaryGB

Hi Gary,

I've been exporting the C39 marking into FSX and using the IS3 to position it, now that I've learned how to use it, and I got to say it works pretty good. I thought it would be faster doing it this way, and even so, there is a problem that I'm having installing this marking. I wanted to see how well it works, as well as practicing placing these models in the sim using IS3. Well, here's the problem I'm running into, and either I have not performed a task or there is something else I'll need to do in Gimp to make this work. You mentioned you recommend that I utilize the format SCAN/ASM G-Poly, and I also want to learn that as well. Okay, Now with the issue at hand using the IS3 to place the C39 in FSX.

It seems to do a very good job at placing the C39 marking but there is, I guess you would call it blooming, taking place and it occurs depending on the position of the CH cross over the C39 marking in the top down view. Now here's a screenshot of the marking in a certain position in the slew mode:


C39 Using IS3.jpg



From this position it looks pretty good. I also did not place it precisely at the correct heading and position because some of the textures are not lining up perfectly with the original. Now, look at the next image:



C39 Blooms.jpg



Notice that when I slew the CH Plus cross over to the left, you now see the outline of the actual texture I created and it seems to give off light. I tried another method, which did not work. In Gimp, I just created the number '9' only, and since I was going to use IS3, I could position it over the 2. But the problem is that even though I used the properties to raise the elevation of the "9," it would not overlap the 2, and you could see right through it. I've might have accidently set it to transparent and didn't realize it or I need to make 2 layers. Is this the Z-buffer fighting and flickering you mentioned above? So, when you get read, I'm ready for the next step.

Ken.
 
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#67
The g-poly I generated for this example seems to work just fine, but I am running V3 (have not tested FSX, to which I would assume I would add a slight offset and NO_SHADOW). Your method is the definite one, I just thought the OP would benefit from having an alternate way of skinning that cat. ;-)

Hi David,
Yes, it works okay in FSX, other than that blooming effect I've mentioned in the 2nd image I've posted above.

Ken.
 
#68
Hi Ken:

Matching FSX run time display of the mapped Material texture image on the "C39" replacement ground marking object will require different procedures for the FSX MDL-based G-Poly methods David proposed, compared to what I would have presented for legacy format SCASM / ASM non-MDL-based G-Poly methods.


IMHO, David should now be willing to "go the full distance" and properly support the work-flow he encouraged you to explore via FSX MDL-based G-Poly methods to enable a FSX run time matching display of the mapped Material texture image on the "C39" replacement ground marking object in FSX ...not P3D. :stirthepo

HINT: You may (at the very least) need to duplicate "Material Properties" of the "C32" mapped texture on the original FSDT KDFW FSX MDL-based G-Poly ;)


After you are finished exploring FSX MDL-based G-Poly methods, feel free to let me know when you are ready, willing, and able to focus on learning the legacy format SCASM / ASM non-MDL-based G-Poly methods for FSX display ...that I proposed at the outset of this new thread I had encouraged you to create. :)

GaryGB
 
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#69
="GaryGB, post: 792710, member:

HINT: You may (at the very least) need to duplicate "Material Properties" of the "C32" mapped texture on the original FSDT KDFW FSX MDL-based G-Poly ;)
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying I may need to use the original FSDT KDFW model file rather than using the screenshot from FSX?


After you are finished exploring FSX MDL-based G-Poly methods, feel free to let me know when you are ready, willing, and able to focus on learning the legacy format SCASM / ASM non-MDL-based G-Poly methods for FSX display ...that I proposed at the outset of this new thread I had encouraged you to create. :)
Well, I'm ready for the next step from where we left off the last time, and that would be exporting the C39 tiff file using Gimp. I would guess the next step would be using the format SCASM / ASM that you're proposing. You use those words, SCASM / ASM, but I'm not familiar with what that is. When you give me the next step, explain what SCASM / ASM mean or what is it.

Ken.
 
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#70
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying I may need to use the original FSDT KDFW model file rather than using the screenshot from FSX?




Well, I'm ready for the next step from where we left off the last time, and that would be exporting the C39 tiff file using Gimp. I would guess the next step would be using the format SCASM / ASM that you're proposing. You use those words, SCASM / ASM, but I'm not familiar with what that is. When you give me the next step, explain what SCASM / ASM mean or what is it.

Ken.
HI Ken:

IMHO, this is an opportune time for David to finish his tutorial on how to implement a replacement ground marking via a FSX-MDL-based G-Poly. :wave:

Considering the time that elapsed since he last posted to this thread, one might wonder whether he is awaiting an expression of interest and appreciation, or perhaps he wishes to see either or both of 2 specific and important words used in your replies to him as a "wouild-be" helper to your learning process. ;)

http://www.newsminer.com/captain-ka...cle_053d1c33-6be5-5c17-9c86-c330bb0f7f08.html

GaryGB
 
#71
Hi Gary,

I've already thanked David for all his help, and I appreciate yours as well. I'm just waiting for either of you to post the work flow that you both have presented to me, and I see nothing wrong with learning from both of y'alls techniques. I will except all the knowledge I can get. I thought your were going to post the next step, and I'm ready. But if you think it's would benefit me that I first learn the rest of David's work flow then David, I'm waiting. Yes, I have an interest and would appreciate it.

Ken.
 
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#72
Hi David,

I thought Gary was going to continue from where we left off but he said this would be an opportune time for you to finish explaining how to implement a replacement ground marking via a FSX-MDL-based G-Poly. It's been 2 days and I haven't heard anything. If you're too busy with other things and not able to do so, that's okay. Let me know sometime today so that I can get with Gary and continue with where we left off. I want to hurry and get this done.

Ken.
 
#73
Hi Gary,

I've posted David regarding finishing the tutorial about how to implement a replacement ground marking that you suggested but I haven't heard from him, and mentioned that I wanted to know something today if he could do so. He mentioned that he hasn't been receiving notifications and that's probably why I haven't heard from him. Why he's not receiving them I don't know. I know just about all last week, and here lately every time I want to come here, the site would always be down, and I don't know if that has anything to do with it or not. So it may be a while. In the meantime, can we go ahead and start from where we left off.

Ken.