FSX Editing Ground Textures for Updated Airport Scenery

#61
Hi Ken:

Each of the images attached in your post above looks like I would expect it to. :)

This illustrates a slight difference in placement precision between tile server aerial imagery in SBuilderX background maps and FSDT KDFW G-Polys in FSX. ;)

I do not know whether the difference in placement precision is due to GIS projection of source files or insufficient bit depth in the FSDT Couatl Addon Manager.

GaryGB
 
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#62
Hi David,
Have you read my post above, I think it's number 28, because I haven't heard from you. Here's the post below:


Hi David,

Thanks for posting your work flow on these instructions. I did learn one thing. The one thing I was doing wrong was that I was using Sketchup to create the texture, which I probably could have, but I noticed you were using Photoshop to create the texture. Then you used Sketcup to make the plane. That cleared some things up. I don't have Photoshop yet so I used Gimp, but I had to figure out how to use it. I've noticed in Photoshop you don't have to go through several menus just to open, or do a certain thing. All the tools and buttons are right there at your disposal. I followed all the things you posted and I'm still not getting anywhere with it. Well, I've done everything up to where I use IS3. Let me explain everything I did and maybe you can tell me what I'm doing wrong, or have not done, in order to get the results.

I created the texture in Gimp. Then I open Sketchup, imported the texture onto a plain as you described. But I did not raise it few centimeters as explained in one video. I exported and saved it as a dae, or collada file onto my desktop. I opened MCX and imported it. I opened the Material Editor and changed the Z-bias to 2, clicked the button to set to power of 2s, saved the textures, and exported the model. When I exported the model, I used the Export Object button and not the Export Scenery button. Next, I opened the Library Creator XML. But I'm confused and don't understand the purpose for this, but I did follow your instruction. You said to add the tile model and compile it. Well, I've downloaded the development version 3.0 but this one dose not have a Compile button. But the version 2 has a Compile button. I watched Arnos video tutorial on how to use this version and he's made some changes. From what I understand from Arno's video, and correct me if I'm wrong, I clicked the "Save Library" button and a dialog box pops up which contains the 2 fields, Save Library BGL and Save Library XML. So, apparently, this is where I save it as a bgl file. But the problem is that I'm not sure if I'm supposed to save these to a certain folder. From what I understand from Arno's video, It sound like he said save it to any folder you want, but correct me if I'm wrong. I just saved it to a folder on my desktop. At first, you said to place the bgl and texture in the corresponding KDFW folders, then you said to place the bgl and the texture in the KDFW Scenery folder. I think you meant to say place the bgl in the Scenery folder and the texture in the Texture folder, and that's what I did. Everything seemed to work up to this point. When I load the simulator and open the IS3, I don't see my created ground texture in the menu that pops up when you open IS3. It's nowhere in that list of scenery objects, so I'm not doing something right. I wasted hours trying to figure out why it's not showing up but I have not figured out why. Could you explain?

Oh buy the way, what is the Z - bias for? Is that for raising the plain 2 millimeters or centimeters?
Sorry Ken, had not been in this thread for a while, and I wasn't getting notifications either. The purpose of the Library Creator is to create a model based library that you can open with IS3 when FS is loaded. You navigate to the resulting library bgl and pick up your numbering plane model from there.

On the latest Library Creator version, just use the save button, it automatically creates a bgl with the same name as the library xml file. No, it cannot just be on your desktop. Just place the bgl inside your DFW scenery folder so IS3 can access it. Or you can also create another scenery folder within Addon Scenery and place it there, just make sure to activate your new scenery folder, otherwise IS3 won't be able to find it. Remember that IS3 only reads the libraries wihtin the activated sceneries on your Scenery Library. Put the texture on the texture folder of the scenery where you placed the library bgl.

The Z bias I believe is in mm. Since the polygon is so small, 2 is enough. If for some reason it flickers, use 3 and so on.

David
 
#63
Hi David:

AFAIK, the topic under discussion for this thread is, as stated in Ken's opening post subject field:

[ FSX ] Editing Ground Textures for Updated Airport Scenery

IIUC, FSX and P3Dv1.4x MDLs do not utilize Z-Bias for Material Properties which was implemented for P3D versions 2.x, 3.x, 4.x MDLs in the LM-P3D SDK.

Also, there is likely to be significant and objectionable "Z-buffer fighting" / "flickering" between existing FSDT KDFW FSX-MDL-based G-Polys and even (1) additional new "C39" FSX MDL-based G-Poly,

Any such a new FSX MDL-based G-Polys would have to be placed via BGLComp, AGL, and in close proximity to the ground in approximately 8" intervals above one another to avoid such anomalies ...in an effort to 'cover up' the FSDT KDFW FSX-MDL-based G-Poly which has the "C32" ground marking.

IMHO, by the time one raises the Altitude (in elevation units of fractional Meters) of such a FSX MDL-based G-Poly placed via BGLComp to be AGL in approximately 8" intervals above other co-incident FSX-MDL-based G-Polys from the FSDT KDFW scenery to avoid such anomalies in all aircraft camera views except TopDown, one will have an objectionable visual appearance of the user aircraft wheels sinking into the "apron" / parking area surface.

This is why I have recommended that Ken utilize a legacy format SCASM / ASM-based G-Poly which utilizes the FS2Kx option of Z-Bias for display of the "C39" texture Material via the VTP layering system instead of attempting to utilize a FSX-MDL-based G-Poly. ;)

GaryGB
 
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#64
Gary I'm with you, but for FSX if the mdl based G poly flickers.....adding an empty LOD seems to solve the issue (perhaps it eases z-buffer fighting). And yes, the wheels do seem to sink if one takes too much Z bias or offset elevation liberty.

The g-poly I generated for this example seems to work just fine, but I am running V3 (have not tested FSX, to which I would assume I would add a slight offset and NO_SHADOW). Your method is the definite one, I just thought the OP would benefit from having an alternate way of skinning that cat. ;-)
 
#65
Sorry Ken, had not been in this thread for a while, and I wasn't getting notifications either. The purpose of the Library Creator is to create a model based library that you can open with IS3 when FS is loaded. You navigate to the resulting library bgl and pick up your numbering plane model from there.

On the latest Library Creator version, just use the save button, it automatically creates a bgl with the same name as the library xml file. No, it cannot just be on your desktop. Just place the bgl inside your DFW scenery folder so IS3 can access it. Or you can also create another scenery folder within Addon Scenery and place it there, just make sure to activate your new scenery folder, otherwise IS3 won't be able to find it. Remember that IS3 only reads the libraries wihtin the activated sceneries on your Scenery Library. Put the texture on the texture folder of the scenery where you placed the library bgl.

The Z bias I believe is in mm. Since the polygon is so small, 2 is enough. If for some reason it flickers, use 3 and so on.

David

Hi David,

That's okay. There have been times when I didn't get a notification too. Thanks for all your help. Now, I better understand how to use IS3 as well as the Library Creator. In the past when I would try to install a scenery, or model such as this, I could never find it. It was because I never ran the Library Creator, and I didn't understand it that well. I finally found it in the manual but to me, the manual is not good at keeping subjects in order. And it was kind of hidden so to speak. But now, I understand how to do it.

Ken.
 
#66
Hi David:

AFAIK, the topic under discussion for this thread is, as stated in Ken's opening post subject field:

[ FSX ] Editing Ground Textures for Updated Airport Scenery

IIUC, FSX and P3Dv1.4x MDLs do not utilize Z-Bias for Material Properties which was implemented for P3D versions 2,x,3.x,4,x MDLs in the LM-P3D SDK.

Also, there is likely to be significant and objectionable "Z-buffer fighting" / "flickering" between existing FSDT KDFW FSX-MDL-based G-Polys and even (1) additional new "C39" FSX MDL-based G-Poly,

Any such a new FSX MDL-based G-Polys would have to be placed via BGLComp, AGL, and in close proximity to the ground in approximately 8" intervals above one another to avoid such anomalies ...in an effort to 'cover up' the FSDT KDFW FSX-MDL-based G-Poly which has the "C32" ground marking.

IMHO, by the time one raises the Altitude (in elevation units of fractional Meters) of such a FSX MDL-based G-Poly placed via BGLComp to be AGL in approximately 8" intervals above other co-incident FSX-MDL-based G-Polys from the FSDT KDFW scenery to avoid such anomalies in all aircraft camera views except TopDown, one will have an objectionable visual appearance of the user aircraft wheels sinking into the "apron" / parking area surface.

This is why I have recommended that Ken utilize a legacy format SCASM / ASM-based G-Poly which utilizes the FS2Kx option of Z-Bias for display of the "C39" texture Material via the VTP layering system instead of attempting to utilize a FSX-MDL-based G-Poly. ;)

GaryGB

Hi Gary,

I've been exporting the C39 marking into FSX and using the IS3 to position it, now that I've learned how to use it, and I got to say it works pretty good. I thought it would be faster doing it this way, and even so, there is a problem that I'm having installing this marking. I wanted to see how well it works, as well as practicing placing these models in the sim using IS3. Well, here's the problem I'm running into, and either I have not performed a task or there is something else I'll need to do in Gimp to make this work. You mentioned you recommend that I utilize the format SCAN/ASM G-Poly, and I also want to learn that as well. Okay, Now with the issue at hand using the IS3 to place the C39 in FSX.

It seems to do a very good job at placing the C39 marking but there is, I guess you would call it blooming, taking place and it occurs depending on the position of the CH cross over the C39 marking in the top down view. Now here's a screenshot of the marking in a certain position in the slew mode:


C39 Using IS3.jpg



From this position it looks pretty good. I also did not place it precisely at the correct heading and position because some of the textures are not lining up perfectly with the original. Now, look at the next image:



C39 Blooms.jpg



Notice that when I slew the CH Plus cross over to the left, you now see the outline of the actual texture I created and it seems to give off light. I tried another method, which did not work. In Gimp, I just created the number '9' only, and since I was going to use IS3, I could position it over the 2. But the problem is that even though I used the properties to raise the elevation of the "9," it would not overlap the 2, and you could see right through it. I've might have accidently set it to transparent and didn't realize it or I need to make 2 layers. Is this the Z-buffer fighting and flickering you mentioned above? So, when you get read, I'm ready for the next step.

Ken.
 
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#67
The g-poly I generated for this example seems to work just fine, but I am running V3 (have not tested FSX, to which I would assume I would add a slight offset and NO_SHADOW). Your method is the definite one, I just thought the OP would benefit from having an alternate way of skinning that cat. ;-)

Hi David,
Yes, it works okay in FSX, other than that blooming effect I've mentioned in the 2nd image I've posted above.

Ken.
 
#68
Hi Ken:

Matching FSX run time display of the mapped Material texture image on the "C39" replacement ground marking object will require different procedures for the FSX MDL-based G-Poly methods David proposed, compared to what I would have presented for legacy format SCASM / ASM non-MDL-based G-Poly methods.


IMHO, David should now be willing to "go the full distance" and properly support the work-flow he encouraged you to explore via FSX MDL-based G-Poly methods to enable a FSX run time matching display of the mapped Material texture image on the "C39" replacement ground marking object in FSX ...not P3D. :stirthepo

HINT: You may (at the very least) need to duplicate "Material Properties" of the "C32" mapped texture on the original FSDT KDFW FSX MDL-based G-Poly ;)


After you are finished exploring FSX MDL-based G-Poly methods, feel free to let me know when you are ready, willing, and able to focus on learning the legacy format SCASM / ASM non-MDL-based G-Poly methods for FSX display ...that I proposed at the outset of this new thread I had encouraged you to create. :)

GaryGB
 
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#69
="GaryGB, post: 792710, member:

HINT: You may (at the very least) need to duplicate "Material Properties" of the "C32" mapped texture on the original FSDT KDFW FSX MDL-based G-Poly ;)
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying I may need to use the original FSDT KDFW model file rather than using the screenshot from FSX?


After you are finished exploring FSX MDL-based G-Poly methods, feel free to let me know when you are ready, willing, and able to focus on learning the legacy format SCASM / ASM non-MDL-based G-Poly methods for FSX display ...that I proposed at the outset of this new thread I had encouraged you to create. :)
Well, I'm ready for the next step from where we left off the last time, and that would be exporting the C39 tiff file using Gimp. I would guess the next step would be using the format SCASM / ASM that you're proposing. You use those words, SCASM / ASM, but I'm not familiar with what that is. When you give me the next step, explain what SCASM / ASM mean or what is it.

Ken.
 
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#70
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying I may need to use the original FSDT KDFW model file rather than using the screenshot from FSX?




Well, I'm ready for the next step from where we left off the last time, and that would be exporting the C39 tiff file using Gimp. I would guess the next step would be using the format SCASM / ASM that you're proposing. You use those words, SCASM / ASM, but I'm not familiar with what that is. When you give me the next step, explain what SCASM / ASM mean or what is it.

Ken.
HI Ken:

IMHO, this is an opportune time for David to finish his tutorial on how to implement a replacement ground marking via a FSX-MDL-based G-Poly. :wave:

Considering the time that elapsed since he last posted to this thread, one might wonder whether he is awaiting an expression of interest and appreciation, or perhaps he wishes to see either or both of 2 specific and important words used in your replies to him as a "wouild-be" helper to your learning process. ;)

http://www.newsminer.com/captain-ka...cle_053d1c33-6be5-5c17-9c86-c330bb0f7f08.html

GaryGB
 
#71
Hi Gary,

I've already thanked David for all his help, and I appreciate yours as well. I'm just waiting for either of you to post the work flow that you both have presented to me, and I see nothing wrong with learning from both of y'alls techniques. I will except all the knowledge I can get. I thought your were going to post the next step, and I'm ready. But if you think it's would benefit me that I first learn the rest of David's work flow then David, I'm waiting. Yes, I have an interest and would appreciate it.

Ken.
 
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#72
Hi David,

I thought Gary was going to continue from where we left off but he said this would be an opportune time for you to finish explaining how to implement a replacement ground marking via a FSX-MDL-based G-Poly. It's been 2 days and I haven't heard anything. If you're too busy with other things and not able to do so, that's okay. Let me know sometime today so that I can get with Gary and continue with where we left off. I want to hurry and get this done.

Ken.
 
#73
Hi Gary,

I've posted David regarding finishing the tutorial about how to implement a replacement ground marking that you suggested but I haven't heard from him, and mentioned that I wanted to know something today if he could do so. He mentioned that he hasn't been receiving notifications and that's probably why I haven't heard from him. Why he's not receiving them I don't know. I know just about all last week, and here lately every time I want to come here, the site would always be down, and I don't know if that has anything to do with it or not. So it may be a while. In the meantime, can we go ahead and start from where we left off.

Ken.
 
#74
Hi Ken:

Before we proceed further, please review these excerpts previously posted above within this thread: ;)

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-792191

Hi Ken:

The Material properties of the MDL-based FSDT KFDW scenery G-Polys determine how they appear in FS at run time.

We took a screen capture of the "C32" area from FS to get "closer" to how the texture Materials actually look at run time.

It may be possible in GIMP to adjust the Brightness / Contrast / Gamma / color Saturation / color RGB channels for the final "C39" texture Material mapped to the 3D model in Sketchup, to more closely match surrounding FSDT KFDW MDL-based G-Poly marking scenery objects placed / displayed by the FSDT Couatl Addon Manager.

I cannot predict how closely we will be able to match the original "C32" G-Poly markings, since this SCASM / ASM G-Poly has an older non-MDL-based 3D object BGL file format, and as such, it will have limited Material properties that are available for modification when compared to what a FSX / P3D MDL file would otherwise allow.

On the other hand, a graphics application 'may' exert even more control over how a texture looks than IMHO, is possible to achieve through the comparatively small group of 'Material properties' allowed by the Windows DirectX graphics sub-system feature set, and the even smaller sub-set of features actually implemented by ACES and/or LM for MDLs and other scenery objects.

So, with some testing you may find you can edit the replacement markings to be matched to your satisfaction. :)

GaryGB
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-792762

Well, I'm ready for the next step from where we left off the last time, and that would be exporting the C39 tiff file using Gimp. I would guess the next step would be using the format SCASM / ASM that you're proposing. You use those words, SCASM / ASM, but I'm not familiar with what that is. When you give me the next step, explain what SCASM / ASM mean or what is it.

Ken.
Although a SCASM / ASM G-Poly has an older non-MDL-based 3D object BGL file format, and as such, it will have limited Material properties that are available for modification when compared to what a FSX / P3D MDL file would otherwise allow, it does have the option to implement a "Z-Bias" attribute via the VTP Layering system ...when the source code is compiled to BGL by the SCASM (aka "Scenery Assembler") compiler, which is a non-SDK ...but fully SDK-compatible utility program.


FYI: A FSX-MDL-based "G-Poly" (actually a SDK BGLComp-compiled XML format scenery library object) is not capable of being a true "Ground Polygon", because it does not have the option to implement a "Z-Bias" attribute for display of mapped material texture images via either the legacy FS2Kx VTP Layering system or via the P3D SDK 'Material Properties'. :alert:


A "Z-Bias" attribute implemented via the legacy FS2Kx VTP Layering system of the pre-FSX SDK allows control over mapped texture image display on a "stack of layers" basis, so that the user aircraft camera will be forced to see- or not see- layers based on their layer number, with higher layer numbers being "on top", with lower numbers being occluded by any layers above them (except when explicitly permitted to view such lower layers via 'transparency' attributes within higher layers).

Additionally, the SCASM / ASM G-Poly, as an older non-MDL-based 'flat' 3D object, can be aligned in close proximity to the local terrain mesh surface, yet its mapped texture image will display on a "stack of layers" (consisting of layers both above and below it) ...according to the VTP Layering number it is assigned.

The process I am presenting to you here will (empirically) determine what VTP Layering number the "C39" SCASM / ASM G-Poly must be assigned for proper display in FSX at run time ...relative to locally co-existing default and/or FSDT textured ground objects.


Please let me know when you have a "C39 decal" Sketchup 3D model created as I described above:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-792026

...and after you have Exported it from Sketchup as a *.KMZ file. :pushpin:

GaryGB
 
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#75
="GaryGB, post: 793085, member: 995"

Please let me know when you have a "C39 decal" Sketchup 3D model created as I described above:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-792026

...and after you have Exported it from Sketchup as a *.KMZ file. :pushpin:

Hi Gary,

Just want to let you know that I have the C39 decal in Sketchup, exported as a tiff file, callada file, kml, and kmz. I didn't know if you wanted me to upload these but I noticed you said "as a kmz file, and I didn't know if you meant kml. But I went ahead and saved it as a kmz. Regarding the kmz file, since I don't have the Geo Location, it put the decal somewhere in another state. So I use the Geo Google map and placed it near where it should go and named that file C39 decal 2.kmz. I did this in case you wanted it as kmz.

Ken.
 
#76
Hi Ken:

To keep this less complex for us both, export the "C39" decal as a Collada *.DAE file from Sketchup instead of as a *.KMZ file.


* Create a new top folder for FSX with a local paired \Scenery and \Texture sub-folder chain under it ex:

[FSX install path]\Addon Scenery\KDFW_MCX\G-Polys\

...[FSX install path]\Addon Scenery\KDFW_MCX\G-Polys\Scenery

...[FSX install path]\Addon Scenery\KDFW_MCX\G-Polys\Texture


* Add this as a new Area and set it 'active' in the FSX Scenery Library GUI


* Install, configure, and launch the latest 'development version' of MCX from:

https://www.scenerydesign.org/development-releases/


* Import the above *DAE exported from Sketchup


* Launch the MCX G-Poly Wizard from: MCX Menu > Wizards > Ground Polygon Wizard.

Leave all MCX G-Poly Wizard settings at default, except:

Update the "C39" decal BGL output path location to:

[FSX install path]\Addon Scenery\KDFW_MCX\G-Polys\Scenery


Update the "C39" decal placement location with Geographic coordinates from FSX using CH+


Check the checkbox for: "Convert textures" and "Over-write existing textures"


If prompted, during texture processing, direct the "C39" decal texture conversion / over-write output path location to:

...[FSX install path]\Addon Scenery\KDFW_MCX\G-Polys\Texture


Click [Convert] button


* Start FSX; inspect the FSDT KDFW "C32" location to see if a "C-39" G-Poly is displayed on top of the FSDT "C32" marking.


NOTE: Further procedures 'may' be required to achieve proper "C-39" G-Poly display on top of the FSDT "C32" marking.


Please let me know how this process worked for you. :)

GaryGB
 
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#77
Hi Gary,

The C39 not being displayed on top of the C32. There is a box where I enter the altitude and heading, and I went ahead and enter those as well, but it still did not display the C39. I also increase the layer level to 12 and 16, but still no C39. I imported the C39 dae file into MCX and ran the ground poly wizard. I also created the folders in this format in the Addon Scenery of FSX:

C:\FSX\Addon Scenery\KDFW_MCX\G-Poly\Scenery\Texture.

I guess it will need further procedures like you said.

Ken.
 
#78
Hi Ken:

Please attach- or link to- a ZIP of the "C39" *DAE exported from Sketchup, and the SCASM / ASM G-Poly BGL with textures exported by MCX.

GaryGB
 
#79
Hi Gary,

Here are the zipped files, including the FSDT_KDFW Tiff file. It's in the C39 folder. I happen to imported the dae file into MCX and noticed that it showed no textures, no C39. After including the tiff file, it shows the C39. Maybe I did it right this time.

Ken.
 

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#80
HI Ken:

IMHO, this is an opportune time for David to finish his tutorial on how to implement a replacement ground marking via a FSX-MDL-based G-Poly. :wave:

Considering the time that elapsed since he last posted to this thread, one might wonder whether he is awaiting an expression of interest and appreciation, or perhaps he wishes to see either or both of 2 specific and important words used in your replies to him as a "wouild-be" helper to your learning process. ;)

http://www.newsminer.com/captain-ka...cle_053d1c33-6be5-5c17-9c86-c330bb0f7f08.html

GaryGB
If I was to wait for a thank you for every help..............I wouldn't have time to help.
 
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