FSX Editing Ground Textures for Updated Airport Scenery

[pinkjr]

Its a twister, it's a twister! LOL

 

[kmanning]

Gary just what exactly do YOU believe I need to explain that hasn't been explained earlier in this post? Please be specific. I did cover library creation on my mini tutorial. Please, if there is something I failed to include or you believe I am not disclosing on purpose...let me know because that was not the intent.
de
Ken,
You can open the bgl file I provided in MCX, go to the material settings dialogue and turn off "assume vertical normals". I think that may solve the reflection issue you are seeing. In any case, it should never look like that when in cockpit view, during taxi. It seems you are getting the brightness only when directly on top of the texture, which is a flag that "assume vertical normals" should be set to off. If that doesn't make it better, try changing the texture specular value to 255,255,255 under the same material settings dialogue.
You can adjust these settings directly on your addon scenery folder as installed.

Thanks,
David

Hi David,

I did the suggestions you told me and the "Assume Vertical Normal" was already set to False, which I assume means it's turned off. It was under Enhanced Parameters in the Material Editor.

There is still one other thing I need to know. You have 2 bgl files in that zip, one named C39.BGL and the other C39_LIB.BGL. The C39.bgl would not import into MCX, which I figured probably would not, but I could import the C39_LIB.BGL. This one must be the importing one. When I first placed the files you sent me, I only place the C39.bgl and the C39.dds. I did not placed the C39_LIB.BGL. After launching the simulator and found out that it still was not showing the C39, that's when I placed the C39_LIB.BGL, and it worked. Just for the heck of it and to know for sure, I removed the C39.bgl and left the C.39_LIB.BGL. When I launched the sim again, the C39 was gone and it was back to the C32. From what I gather from this, it needs 2 of the files, both the C39.bgl and the C39_LIB.BGL to make the C39 show up in the sim. What I want to know is how is the C39_LIB.BGL file created or where does it come from? Every time I create these files in Gimp, Sketchup, and MCX, it's never created a file with the name LIB.BGL. Please explain this.

Ken.

 

[pinkjr]

C39.bgl is the file that places the object in the simulator. It only contains coordinates, scale, and some other flags. It does not contain a model. This is the output from IS3.

C39_LIB.BGL is the library that contains the actual model in it. Remember, this is model based. You can open it with MCX and make any edits to the model there.

You need BOTH C39.bgl and C39_LIB.bgl on your scenery folder for the item to display. As an alternate, you can skip using C39.bgl and just locate the model yourself using IS3. As long as you placed C39_LIB.bgl on an active scenery folder, the library should show up on ISC3.

As explained on the tutorial I made specifically for you on this thread, C39_LIB.bgl was created using Library Creator. It contains the actual model. If this was a large scenery project, that file would be full of models such as terminals, static airplanes, custom trees, 3D lights. The second bgl only places these models in 3D space.

in summary:
XX_LIB.bgl ---> contains all the FS models in it as compiled from MCX or other bglcomp based programs
XX.blg ---> just places the models in space (in example, the IS3 bgl output).

 

[pinkjr]

Hi David,

I did the suggestions you told me and the "Assume Vertical Normal" was already set to False, which I assume means it's turned off. It was under Enhanced Parameters in the Material Editor.

Try the opposite then, turn it on. I'm working off of memory here.

 

[kmanning]

C39.bgl is the file that places the object in the simulator. It only contains coordinates, scale, and some other flags. It does not contain a model. This is the output from IS3.

C39_LIB.BGL is the library that contains the actual model in it. Remember, this is model based. You can open it with MCX and make any edits to the model there.

You need BOTH C39.bgl and C39_LIB.bgl on your scenery folder for the item to display. As an alternate, you can skip using C39.bgl and just locate the model yourself using IS3. As long as you placed C39_LIB.bgl on an active scenery folder, the library should show up on ISC3.

As explained on the tutorial I made specifically for you on this thread, C39_LIB.bgl was created using Library Creator. It contains the actual model. If this was a large scenery project, that file would be full of models such as terminals, static airplanes, custom trees, 3D lights. The second bgl only places these models in 3D space.

in summary:
XX_LIB.bgl ---> contains all the FS models in it as compiled from MCX or other bglcomp based programs
XX.blg ---> just places the models in space (in example, the IS3 bgl output).

Okay, I understand now. The LIB.BGL is the file from the library maker and the bgl file is the one created when placed in IS3, which I assume is the placement file. I recall that you said that but when I export a file using the library maker, the output file was never named as LIB.BGL. I assume you must have typed it in or named it as LIB.BGL. Regarding the placement file, I've been trying to find that file in the FSDT KDFW airport scenery but I can't find it. I assume it would be in the Scenery folder, but just not sure which one it is. I know one of them is the airport file.

Regarding the Assume Vertical Normal, turning it either on or off did not make any difference. It still does the same thing. I even clicked the Shader button in MCX, and I figured that would correct the problem, but it still makes no difference. I don't know what it is that is causing that effect. I'm sure if the people at FSDT were to update these ground markings, they would use 3D Studio Max, but that is too expensive. But we do have Gmax that's close to it. I've learned how to use Gmax but I've haven't been using it much because it is more challenging and 3 D models can be made much more faster in Sketchup. I'm going to try one other method and if that doesn't work, I'm just going to see how I do using Gmax, or using the SDK, but I need a little more knowledge if I use that. If you find the problem, let me know.

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

FYI: Arno purposely implemented the Material Editor in MCX to configure Material Properties for mapped textures on 3D models without having to use 3DSMAX or GMAX.

To study what settings for Material Properties are involved in the KDFW marking object display attribute that you would like to change, it is best to use MCX with a live preview of a 3D model using the Complex Shader mode button.

NOTE: 'Complex Shader' mode button is a "teapot" next to the LOD display pick-list on the toolbar.

With the Material Editor open in MCX, configure Material Properties for mapped textures on the C32 / C39 object 3D models, and you will see a live preview of (most) changes that one can control via the relatively small set of Material attributes possible in DirectX rendered 3D scenes in FS under Windows.

Please recall I alluded to Specular, Bloom and Normal vector attributes being implicated in the above display anomaly.


Although FS and P3D use DirectX to render under Windows, Arno's MCX uses OpenGL under Windows to render a very close facsimile of what an equivalent 3D object rendering would look like at run time in DirectX sims / games etc..


While your best insight will come from using MCX Material Editor with the live preview to tinker with Material Property attribute settings, one can also gain an additional understanding of what options are available for use in MSFS and P3D under DirectX with a live preview ...via an SDK interactive web page:

MSFS SDK:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526971.aspx#BaseMaterial


P3D SDK:

http://www.prepar3d.com/SDK/Environment Kit/Modeling SDK/FSXMaterial.html


...as discussed here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...for-material-properties-reference-doc.436666/


CAVEAT: Allow 2 to 5 minutes for rendering code to upload in your browser before the 'interactive' page 'works'.


Hope this helps you fine tune your replacement marking object display at FSDT KDFW.

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

Hi Ken:

FYI: Arno purposely implemented the Material Editor in MCX to configure Material Properties for mapped textures on 3D models without having to use 3DSMAX or GMAX.

To study what settings for Material Properties are involved in the KDFW marking object display attribute that you would like to change, it is best to use MCX with a live preview of a 3D model using the Complex Shader mode button.

NOTE: 'Complex Shader' mode button is a "teapot" next to the LOD display pick-list on the toolbar.

With the Material Editor open in MCX, configure Material Properties for mapped textures on the C32 / C39 object 3D models, and you will see a live preview of (most) changes that one can control via the relatively small set of Material attributes possible in DirectX rendered 3D scenes in FS under Windows.

Please recall I alluded to Specular, Bloom and Normal attributes being implicated in the above display anomaly.


Although FS and P3D use DirectX to render under Windows, Arno's MCX uses OpenGL under Windows to render a very close facsimile of what an equivalent 3D object rendering would look like at run time in DirectX sims / games etc..


While your best insight will come from using MCX Material Editor with the live preview to tinker with Material Property attribute settings, one can also gain an additional understanding of what options are available for use in MSFS and P3D under DirectX with a live preview ...via an SDK interactive web page:

MSFS SDK:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526971.aspx#BaseMaterial


P3D SDK:

http://www.prepar3d.com/SDK/Environment Kit/Modeling SDK/FSXMaterial.html


...as discussed here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...for-material-properties-reference-doc.436666/


CAVEAT: Allow 2 to 5 minutes for rendering code to upload in your browser before the 'interactive' page 'works'.


Hope this helps you fine tune your replacement marking object display at FSDT KDFW.

GaryGB

Hi Gary,
Thanks for posting this. I understand that this is an interactive material browser, I guess you can call it. I don't know if I'm doing this right but where it says "NOTE," it says "Hover the mouse over the various FSX Material examples to the left to see and example as well as the settings used t create that material." But I don't see anything happening or any changes being made base on where the mouse is hovered over just to the left of the tea pot. And I did waited the amount of time of 2 - 5 minutes.

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

The above linked MSDN ESP SDK page did not work in Firefox on my last try; however the P3D page did, so try this one (it worked in FireFox within 'seconds'):

http://www.prepar3d.com/SDK/Environment Kit/Modeling SDK/FSXMaterial.html


PS: That P3D page also worked in MS Internet Explorer after about 30 seconds.

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

BTW, finally found some time to develop this weekend and guess what I was working on..........shopping centers. View attachment 41000

Hi David,

It looks real good. Did you use your own textures or did you mapped them on the model? Here are some of my shopping Centers in my area:

Most of mines were mapped to the model, if they're available. I have a Walmart Supper Center but for some reason, it's sinked about 2 or 3 feet below the ground and I need to go back and correct it.

Ken.

 

[kmanning]

Hi Ken:

The above linked MSDN ESP SDK page did not work in Firefox on my last try; however the P3D page did, so try this one (it worked in FireFox within 'seconds'):

http://www.prepar3d.com/SDK/Environment Kit/Modeling SDK/FSXMaterial.html


PS: That P3D page also worked in MS Internet Explorer after about 30 seconds.

GaryGB

Hi Gary,

This last link works and I'm using Internet Explorer. It worked immediately. Although it did not work, I've read over it and got some knowledge from it. I finally got it to stop the blooming effect, I think it's called, well at least I don't see the blooming effect in the sim anymore. It took me a little bit to find out which makes it work. When I imported the C39.mdl into MCX, I placed it in such a way that it would bloom so that I would see the changes take place when making changes in the material editor. The Color Specular was set at 102, 102, 102 for the 3 colors. I set them to 255, 255, 255, and it really bloomed brightly. I set them to 50 then 30 and the bloom was barely showing. So I set them to 0, 0, 0. Now I no longer see that blooming effect in the sim, so, this must have something to do with it. My problem was that I didn't understand what these terms mean and how they effect the model. The interactive material browser really helped out. Now, I guess I have nearly a hundred of these, maybe even more, I have to replace. Thanks for all your help.

Ken.

 

[pinkjr]

I make all my textures from scratch using whatever I can find online. They are all mapped, and I typically use one texture sheet for multiple models.

Back to the Gmax vs 3DSMax....only for a few applications, I would say there is nothing you can't do using SKU/MCX. That one thing being skin and bone animations. Every single texture (material) setting available can be edited on MCX. Sometimes it just takes A LOT of experimenting.

I gave you incorrect data, sorry...I meant to say to change specular to 0,0,0 (black,black,black) which eliminates color reflection....I mistakenly told you to do the opposite (255,255,255).

Yeah 255,255,255 would yield a lot of blooming! LOL

David

 

[kmanning]

Hi David,
The area you have shaded around the C39, how did you go about doing this?

Ken.

 

[pinkjr]

You mean the edges?....that's just photoshop. I use the blend/stroke feature. You can adjust how sharp and how transparent it is.

 

[kmanning]

You mean the edges?....that's just photoshop. I use the blend/stroke feature. You can adjust how sharp and how transparent it is.

Yes, I meant the edges. I figured it was photoshop using the blend, but is this 2 separate layers or is it just one? Every time I've tried doing this, it doesn't come out right.

I've tried leaving the edges around the C39, or whatever, transparent, but the problem is that some of the numbers beneath the replacement will show or blend through. I found out a few months ago that I can actually remove the C32 in MCX and then replace it with the correct number. But it not only removes just the numbers, it removes all of the ground markings, including all of the triangle ground markings and the parking Ts, and it removes everyone one of them at every gate and terminal. I do not want to remove every ground marking but on the one with the gate numbers. There's no way just to remove the numbers only. That would mean I have to replace all of those other markings as well, and that would take a lot more time. If replacing just the numbers were possible, then I could use the KDFW_det10.dds to replace the numbers, and without having to do any blending, or anything, because it would be a fresh new ground poly without any numbers on the ground to place over. Maybe there's a video that will explain how to do this blending in Gimp.

Ken.

 

[pinkjr]

The C39 is a two layer transparency. I copied the original FSDT ground polygon texture and used it as a base layer, with the C39 on top of it as an overlay (in Photoshop).
I just used the eraser at 70% to smooth out the edges of the base layer...and left just enough to cover most of the C32 numbering.

 

[kmanning]

The C39 is a two layer transparency. I copied the original FSDT ground polygon texture and used it as a base layer, with the C39 on top of it as an overlay (in Photoshop).
I just used the eraser at 70% to smooth out the edges of the base layer...and left just enough to cover most of the C32 numbering.

Thanks David. I'll try that. Do you remember the file name of the original FSDT ground polygon texture you used as the based layer? The only file I could find was the KDFW_set07_sf, but that's an mdl file.

Ken.

 

[pinkjr]

Thanks David. I'll try that. Do you remember the file name of the original FSDT ground polygon texture you used as the based layer? The only file I could find was the KDFW_set07_sf, but that's an mdl file.

Ken.

I don't, but it didn't take me long to find it.

 

[kmanning]

I don't, but it didn't take me long to find it.

Hi David,
Maybe this might help you but I don't know if that's the one you used. The only texture I could find was this one and it's located in C:\Addon Manager\Fsdreamteam\KDFW\texture\KDFW_tarmac.dds. I did try using this texture but the color was way too dark and did not matched perfectly with the tarmac in the sim. I know it may be possible to lighten the color but one shouldn't have to do that if it's the correct texture, so I'm thinking it's not the correct one. What I'm doing is taking screenshots of each parking gate because everyone of them have a slightly different texture color. If you try to use just one as a template so to speak, you'll noticed the difference when you try to lay, or place the new marking on top of the other and stands out like a soar thumb. So far, doing it the way I'm doing it is turning out great. But it does take longer than if I could use the one as a template.

Ken.

 

[pinkjr]

I'll see if I can find it tonight, but the one you describe sounds right. Remember I told you the color could end up being lighter, leading to a "pressure wash" kind of effect. Which is what you would see in the actual ramp, that's what they do.

 

[kmanning]

Hi,
I have all my ground markings installed for FSX and works great so far. But since I have the new P3Dv4 sim, I wanted to get away from FSX and work towards doing my scenery work for the P3D. I copied all the files for the ground markings from FSX and pasted them into P3D. Well, it works and the numbers show up correctly, ONLY when you load the simulator and go directly to that airport, KDFW being the case. But if I start off at another airport, fly to Dallas Fort Worth, and taxi to those gates that I've corrected, the ground markings are not correct and they show their original numbers. Is that because bgl files from FSX will not work in P3Dv4? When exporting the models in MCX, I've noticed there is a selection for the model type where it says, "Save as Type." You either select the FSX model version or the P3D model version. So is that the reason for my issue in P3D? Well, I go through the trouble of converting those MDLs for the P3D sim and now find out that the Library Maker for IS3 does not support the P3D version. I think IS3 has only been out a few years and it seems to me they would have the decency to update it to where it supports the P3Dv4. Is there a file or program I can use in the P3D SDK that will convert the mdl to a bgl file? Could someone give me advice and if there's another product I could get that supports the P3Dv4? Or, maybe I'll need to use Placement Wizard, or Ground Poly Wizard in MCX. I've tried using them a couple of times but they don't place the markings exactly where I want them, or it doesn't show anything. What would be the best way since IS3 doesn't support the P3D?

Ken.