FSX Editing Ground Textures for Updated Airport Scenery

[kmanning]

Hi,

Okay, what I did is converted the bgl files from FSX to an xml file so that I can get the information I needed to place the markings. This included the coordinates, altitude, heading, and scale. I used the Convert and Replace Object Wizard in MCX to place the markings, and I did select the P3Dv4 button when converting. I placed the C39 and C37 only to see how well it would work. When I loaded the sim and go to gate C39, they were placed correctly. But I'm still having the same problem that I've talked about in my previous post. When I start off at another airport and fly to Dallas Fort Worth and taxi to gate C39 where I placed my ground marking, it is no longer C39 but it right back to C32, the original marking. Why in the world is it doing that, and I don't have that problem in FSX?

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

I'm pleased to see how your troubleshooting skills have progressed, and that you are more often moving ahead with exploring your options with various FS utilities when you encounter new challenges.


Part of the reason that I considered it "impractical" to allocate what seemed very likely to be a vast amount of time and effort required to 'successfully' modify a FSDT airport such as KDFW (which uses numerous FSX 3D MDL-based objects placed via a proprietary module) using your own additional FSX 3D objects placed via BGLComp-XML-type BGL methods, was the uncertainty as to how the FSDT "Addon Manager" proprietary module actually works to implment "conditional display".

This might potentially also compel uncertainty as to how the FS rendering engine will respond when (2) FSX and/or (P3D) 3D MDL-based objects with overlapping "bounding boxes" co-exist in the same 3D space within the FS world.

It is possible that when (2) FSX and/or (P3D) 3D MDL-based objects with overlapping "bounding boxes" co-exist in the same 3D space within the FS world, either (1)- or both- of those objects 'may' fail to render in FS at run time.


Another issue is that FSDT KDFW is not explicitly stated by the developer to be 'compatible' with P3Dv4.x:

https://www.fsdreamteam.com/products_kdfw.html


Thus, it is not possible to predict whether one may achieve a similar rendering of FSX MDL-based 3D objects placed via FSDT "Addon Manager" in P3Dv4.x ...as one would otherwise have when those same objects are rendered in FSX.

AFAIK, in this scenario, you are one of the first "explorers" of this type of mixed FSX / P3Dv4.x MDL-based rendering for objects with overlapping "bounding boxes" that co-exist in the same 3D space within the FS world.


I am not certain what may be the best solution to troubleshoot this P3Dv4.x "overlapped" 3D object display issue, and I believe you should attach or link to your files for testing / suggestions by other forum participants who have P3Dv4.x.


FYI: Regarding Instant Scenery and P3Dv4.x, it has been previously stated by the developer of IS3:

FSDiscoverer

Moderator Group

Joined: 17-November-2006 Points: 3649
Posted: 31-July-2017 at 4:21pm

http://www.simforums.com/forums/whats-up-with-is-3-for-p3dv4_topic58516.html

"Instant Scenery for P3Dv4 is planned and I am working on it.

I cannot promise a fixed release date yet, sorry."


You may wish to consider using P3D "SimDirector" until Instant Scenery is released for P3Dv4.x:

https://www.google.com/search?ei=Y-....64.psy-ab..1.7.758...0i13i30k1.0.sfrEW0R_7u0


BTW: Library Maker and Thumbnail Maker are utilities included with IS3, but which are not 'officially' supported, nor a "purchased" part of the IS3 product package; they are free (via restricted distribution) stand-alone utilities which IIRC, were originally authored years ago, by Arno (or co-authored by both Arno and Konstantin Kukushkin).


NOTE: Those same utility features are available via several functions in Arno's ModelConverterX (aka "MCX"):

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forums/modelconverterx.87/


...and Arno's Library Creator XML:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/resources/library-creator-xml.86/

https://www.scenerydesign.org/2015/10/prepar3d-v3-support/


Keep up the valiant efforts with the FS development learning process !

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

Hi Gary,

Regarding the IS3, I'm glad to hear that they're working on it because I haven't heard.

There's one thing I've learned about the P3Dv4 and that is it has a different functionality in the way sceneries are installed with some addon products than FSX. Some of them do work just using the same methods as in FSX, but here's what I found out regarding the FSDT and Flightbeam Studio sceneries. I don't know if you're aware but regarding the P3Dv4 sim, there is an XML file that's found in your Documents Folder under the name, "Prepar 3D v4 Add-ons." Not all developers use this method, so depending on what you have installed, that folder may be empty. It just so happens that FSDT and Flightbeam Studios use this methods that contain an xml file. The P3Dv4 reads these files and tells them sim where the product is installed. Here's an xml file showing the FSDT KDFW Scenery:

<SimBase.Document Type="AddOnXml" version="4,0" id="add-on">
<AddOn.Name>FsDreamTeam KDFW</AddOn.Name>
<AddOn.Description>FsDreamTeam Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport scenery</AddOn.Description>
<AddOn.Component>
<Name>FsDreamTeam Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport</Name>
<Category>Scenery</Category>
<Path>C:\Addon Manager\FsDreamTeam\KDFW\Scenery</Path>
</AddOn.Component>
<AddOn.Component>
<Category>Texture</Category>
<Path>C:\Addon Manager\FsDreamTeam\KDFW\Texture</Path>
<Type>GLOBAL</Type>
</AddOn.Component>
</SimBase.Document>

I've tried all kinds of methods trying to get these ground polys to work. First, I just created a folder inside P3D, but outside of the Addon Manager used by FSDT, and named it KDFW New Polys along the scenery and texture folders. Second, I've created an Addon Scenery Folder inside P3D because it does not come with that folder as with FSX. Third, I've installed them inside the Addon Manager used by FSDT. Then I finally learned about those XML files found in the Documents\Prepar3Dv4 Add-ons folders. As I've mentioned, not all developers use this method in installing their products but I do know that FSDT and FlightBeam Studios does. If you don't have these products installed, you won't have anything in that folder. When I learned about this, I wondered if this could be the reason for all my issues. So, I tried a new install of the KDFW New Polys and wrote a new xml for this new poly. I'm not that good at writing xml files and I'm not really sure if I wrote it correctly. I copied the original KDFW xml file and moved it to the KDFW New Polys folder and changed everything to reflect the new KDFW New Polys folder. Here's what I have:

<SimBase.Document Type="AddOnXml" version="4,0" id="add-on">
<AddOn.Name>KDFW New Polys</AddOn.Name>
<AddOn.Description>KDFW New Polys scenery</AddOn.Description>
<AddOn.Component>
<Name>KDFW New Polys</Name>
<Category>Scenery</Category>
<Path>C:\P3D Addon Scenery\KDFW New Polys\scenery</Path>
</AddOn.Component>
<AddOn.Component>
<Category>Texture</Category>
<Path>C:\P3D Addon Scenery\KDFW New Polys\texture</Path>
<Type>GLOBAL</Type>
</AddOn.Component>
</SimBase.Document>

When I launched the sim, it asked if I wanted to activate or use this new KDFW New Polys folder. Clicking "Yes" places it in the Scenery Library. Everything worked just fine, but I still have the same issue that when I return back to the gate at C39, it has reverted back to C32. I'm not sure if this is really the case but what I discovered is that this issue seems to occur only when I go outside the boundaries of the KDFW airport, and that is just strange to me why it does that. I haven't found this issue in FSX. So I don't know if this is a bug issue with P3Dv4 or if the issue lies with FSDT.

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

I do not have P3D to test with, thus, I cannot venture a 'proper' explanation for your C39 versus FSDT C32 MDL-based library object display issues.

I suggest that you see if David or another P3Dv4 user might assist you with your P3D-related display issue.


That said, I see no reason why you should 'need' to use the Add-on XML package method to add your custom C39 MDL-based library objects to the Scenery.Cfg file stack of layers at the desired priority, as the P3Dv4 scenery library GUI functions continue to be the same as those in FSX.

The only caveat is see in the P3Dv4 documentation is to be sure that you are logged into Windows in 'Administrator' mode (and I'm not certain that when P3Dv4 is "Run As Administrator" it is a 'sufficient work-around' for the above caveat).

https://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv4/prepar3d/world/scenery_library/scenery_library_overview.html

https://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv4/sdk/add-ons/add-on_packages.html


I am doubtful that the Couatl engine underlying the FSDT Addon Manager is dynamically moving the FSDT addon Area layer entries to the top of the Scenery Library GUI stack of Area layers each time you re-start FS (although OrbX FTX is known to do that until you assign an "Insertion Point" to keep all FTX layers below a certain stack position via the utility functions of FTX Central).

I would be certain to 'try' manually placing your C39 MDL-based library objects in a sub-folder chain on your Windows active user profile Desktop, then in the P3Dv4 Scenery Library GUI, manually add that C39 scenery sub-folder chain as a new Area at the top of the Scenery Library stack of Area layers.


Hope this helps with the troubleshooting process.

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

[QUOTE="GaryGB, post: 798129, member: 995"

Hi Ken:

I do not have P3D to test with, thus, I cannot venture a 'proper' explanation for your C39 versus FSDT C32 MDL-based library object display issues.

I suggest that you see if David or another P3Dv4 user might assist you with your P3D-related display issue.

That's okay. I'll contact David.

That said, I see no reason why you should 'need' to use the Add-on XML package method to add your custom C39 MDL-based library objects to the Scenery.Cfg file stack of layers at the desired priority, as the P3Dv4 scenery library GUI functions continue to be the same as those in FSX.

You know, I was thinking the same thing, and from what I gathered from the links you posted, that is just one of the ways to install them. It did install but I see no difference in doing it the way I was doing it. Either way I did it, they both have the same issue.

The only caveat is see in the P3Dv4 documentation is to be sure that you are logged into Windows in 'Administrator' mode (and I'm not certain that when P3Dv4 is "Run As Administrator" it is a 'sufficient work-around' for the above caveat).

Well, I have my Windows UAC turned off and never used the Install as Administrator. From what I understand, if it's turned off, it makes no difference, but I could be wrong.

I am doubtful that the Couatl engine underlying the FSDT Addon Manager is dynamically moving the FSDT addon Area layer entries to the top of the Scenery Library GUI stack of Area layers each time you re-start FS (although OrbX FTX is known to do that until you assign an "Insertion Point" to keep all FTX layers below a certain stack position via the utility functions of FTX Central).

I posted my issue at FSDT but they said they could not help me with my issue. I kind of inticipated that anyway because I don't think they want others to know how to edit these files. They told me to submit the correction and I submitted them. They said they will add it to the scenery as soon as possible. I also need to send them the corrections for the A terminal and I told them I would do that one day this week. I'm sure the parking spots for terminals B, D, and E are going to be wrong.

Back in January, I posted how do I change the gate numbers on the tarmac and here's what they said:

"You cannot edit .MDL files with MCX, not in the way which would be required to change gate numbers on ground. You might be able to do so by exporting in a standard 3D file format, like .OBJ, import them in 3DS Max, edit them then exporting them again, using the SDK. However, it would be a very big task, and you won't be able to redistribute those files, since they are obviously copyrighted. Instead, it would be much better if you took the time to make a clear list of everything that has been changed, so WE might work at it, both scenery, AFCAD and GSX customization, which would be best for everyone."

Well, I don't know if they even tried using MCX to edit .mdl files. One thing I do know is that I did not actually edit the FSDT .mdl file at all. What I did was created another .mdl and placed it on top of the original. Editing the original FSDT KDFW .mdl file was exactly what I wanted to do but you cannot just select the individual numbers and edit them in the .mdl model. The FSDT .mdl file does include the file KDFW_det10.dds, which is the same file I use with the numbers to make those changes in Gimp. The one thing I know is that I can select the KDFW_det10.dds file and click the Remove button and what happens is that it removes those parking numbers from the .mdl model. But it not only removes the parking numbers. It also removes the T markers and the V shaped parking outline. It also removes the runway edge lines, and that would be a lot of work to go back and put in again.

I do agree that it would be better to submit the correct data and they can work them for the scenery, AFCAD, and GSX. But I wanted to learn to do this myself and I figured it would take them some time before it's released. By using the method I used, it only took me about 2 or 3 weeks so maybe it won't be long.

Ken.

 

[pinkjr]

I don't have V4., but it works great in V3 and FSX. FYI, I only export models in FSX format so they work on FSX and P3D. This places some limitations such as polygon count on the model and availability of bump maps for ground polys, but it makes it compatible with both versions, which is what I look for. I have not tested my sceneries in V4, but have customers that ONLY have V4 and I've never heard of compatibility issues, so not sure what's going on in your end.

BTW, .mdl files are not as editable as you'd imagine. FSDT was throwing you a curve ball. When you decompile a .mdl into an .obj you lose tons of information, and may end up with a useless file. To this the right way, you'd need the actual source model from FSDT, which is probably in .3DS format.

 

[kmanning]

="pinkjr, post: 798162, member: 13480"

I don't have V4., but it works great in V3 and FSX.

Hi Dave,
The one I have is version 4.2, the latest, and there were some issues reported with this version such as, selecting views using the Number Keys on the keyboard. It won't work at all. I'm going to report my issue regarding these ground poly issue with Lockheed Martin forum.

FYI, I only export models in FSX format so they work on FSX and P3D.

At first, that what I did. Well, actually, I just copied the KDFW Ground Polys folder from FSX to a folder I created called P3D Addon Sceneries. But I also exported them as P3Dv4 using MCX because I wasn't sure if the exported FSX files would work in P3D. I see no difference so why have an Export Type of FSX and P3D?

I have not tested my sceneries in V4, but have customers that ONLY have V4 and I've never heard of compatibility issues, so not sure what's going on in your end.

I'm not sure either. I just can't figure it out. They do install and the show up in the sim when I first launch it and they have the correct gate numbers. But when I go flying and fly out about 2 miles from the airport and return to the same gate, the number is not correct and my ground polys have disappeared.

BTW, .mdl files are not as editable as you'd imagine. FSDT was throwing you a curve ball. When you decompile a .mdl into an .obj you lose tons of information, and may end up with a useless file.

I'm glad you brought this up because this is where I was confused. I watched a video over the weekend about this very subject and I've always thought that the model, or the mdl, was, or is the object. But from what I learned from watching that video and what you just said, the mdl file becomes an obj file after it's decompiled. So, correct me if I'm wrong. If I want to decompile a model or mdl in MCX, I import the model into MCX, select the FSX object X File* type, and click Export Object.

BTW, when you have a model loaded in MCX and you click the Export Object button, does that export that model into an object file? And what's the difference between FSX Model Object file and the FSX Object X files?

To this the right way, you'd need the actual source model from FSDT, which is probably in .3DS format.

That's what I was thinking. 3DS I assume is 3D Studio Max. But I think it should work in Gmax.

Oh, BTW, you mentioned that you lose a lot of information when you decompile a mdl into an obj file. I may not be doing it right but I tried that. I imported the KDFW_sett07 mdl file and exported it as FSX Object X. When I imported the object file that I just exported, it all shows up as it did before. But yesterday when I tried this, most of the details were gone. So, I don't know why I'm getting difference results.

And one other thing I want to understand. In that C39 file you posted for me to use, in it is a C39.bgl file and also a C39.LIB.bgl file. From my understanding the C39.bgl is the placement file and the C39.LIB.bgl is the model file. When I export the C39 from MCX, it has never exported it as a C39.LIB.bgl. But it does export it as C39.bgl. Where, or how are you getting it to export as C39.LIB.bgl? Or, are you changing the name and adding the .LIB to it? It seems to me that when I export the model from MCX, it would export as C39.LIB.bgl. When I export, or compile using the Library Maker, I think it does compile as C39.bgl. So, that tells me the C39.LIB.bgl should come from MCX when exported, and with that name. But it always exports as C39.bgl. When I convert these files into an xml, it appears that one is the model information and the other one is the placement.

Ken

 

[kmanning]

To this the right way, you'd need the actual source model from FSDT, which is probably in .3DS format.

So, in other words, are you saying that I need to decompile the model, or mdl file, into an obj file then import it into Gmax or do I convert the model into a 3DS format then import it into Gmax, to edit it?

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

Thus far, you are working with your own custom MDL-based scenery library objects placed via BGLComp at assigned elevations relative to FSDT custom MDL-based scenery library objects placed via FSDT Addon Manager at assigned elevations.

If your ultimate target FS version is now P3Dv4.x, you may wish to consider using MCX to implement the P3Dv4.x "Z-Bias" Material Property, and then process the resulting textured 3D MDL via the MCX Ground Polygon Wizard as a true P3D "G-Poly", which allows assigning a "Negative Z-Bias" 'layer position' relative to other flat 3D objects aligned with the ground surface in the same area of FSDT KDFW.

[EDITED]

Apparently there are some complexities involved with use of the "Z-Bias" Material Property when vertically sorting 3D MDLs with a true P3D "G-Poly" :

"make sure all the layers you want to sort do not have a 0 z bias.

A z bias of 0 will not be considered to be sorted against your other layers"


http://www.prepar3d.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=119688

http://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=137580#p137580

Modeling Materials

NOTE: The Material Properties for FSDT kdfw_det10.dds mapped onto the FSDT 3D multi-level SimObject G-Poly:

KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl


..shows in MCX > Material Editor > [Properties] tab > X-Bias: Z-Bias value = 0


Thus, it may be difficult- if not impossible- to Z-sort / place a custom replacement G-Poly relative to FSDT G-Poly:

KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl


This process of making / placing a true P3D "G-Poly" that implements Z-Bias is to be distinguished just making a custom MDL-based scenery library object placed via BGLComp at a assigned elevation relative to FSDT custom MDL-based scenery library objects placed via FSDT Addon Manager at assigned elevations in the same area of FSDT KDFW.


NOTE: I originally discussed this true P3D "G-Poly" option with you above in the thread ...here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-793085


BTW: Please note that I previously identified the FSDT custom MDL-based scenery library object placed via FSDT Addon Manager at an assigned elevation. which is responsible for rendering the persistent underlying / intermittently super-imposed C-32 marking at run time ...as:

Path: [FSDT install path]\Addon Manager\Simobjects\Misc\FSDT_KDFW\model.KDFW_sett07_sf\KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl

Model Name: sfondo_kdfw_sett07

GUID: {597118d9-fcec-4bb9-b7a4-77eebc96d523}

Markings - Mapped Texture: KDFW_DET10.DDS

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-788993


CAVEAT: This is a different object than you cited above in your latter posts as "KDFW_sett07 mdl file".


Possibly the above described true P3D "G-Poly" option may allow greater control over P3Dv4.x run time display of your own replacement C-39 markings relative to FSDT C-32 custom MDL-based scenery library objects placed via BGLComp at assigned elevations in the same area of FSDT KDFW ?


PS: While I appreciate that you are eager to learn more about FS scenery development via this project, I am compelled to caution you about the complexity of what you are contemplating with regards to modifying a de-compiled and exported FSDT 3D model file via GMAX or 3DSMAX.


However, if you are 'irretrievably compelled' to experiment (rather than waiting for FSDT to follow up on their very kind and considerate offer to update their KDFW product for P3Dv4.x), you may find it would be far less complex to:

* Import a COPY of the above cited KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl into MCX Ground Polygon Wizard

* Assign it a "Negative Z-Bias" 'layer position' relative to other flat 3D objects (and in particular, your own "C-39" G-Poly) aligned with the ground surface in the same area of FSDT KDFW ...so that yours ALWAYS displays on top

* Match all Material Properties (aside from the new P3D "Z-Bias") in the new MDL derived from the imported original

* Output a true P3D "G-Poly" version of that object (to be placed via BGLComp, and not via FSDT Addon Manager).

* Disable the original KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl by adding it to a ZIP file, and deleting the original

* Replace the KDFW_sett07_sf object with a custom true P3D "G-Poly" version of that object, placed via BGLComp.


UPDATE: See my change of opinion suggesting against this latter option to modify FSDT KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-798485

[END_EDIT]

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

="GaryGB, post: 798357, member: 995"

Hi Ken:

Thus far, you are working with your own custom MDL-based scenery library objects placed via BGLComp at assigned elevations relative to FSDT custom MDL-based scenery library objects placed via FSDT Addon Manager at assigned elevations.

If your ultimate target FS version is now P3Dv4.x, you may wish to consider using MCX to implement the P3Dv4.x "Z-Bias" Material Property, and then process the resulting textured 3D MDL via the MCX Ground Polygon Wizard as a true P3D "G-Poly", which allows assigning a "Negative Z-Bias" 'layer position' relative to other flat 3D objects aligned with the ground surface in the same area of FSDT KDFW.

Hi Gary,
I remember you discussing this Z-Bias that's in the Material Editor in the Properties tab, and that's where I'm having a lack of understanding. Here's what I understand about the Z-Bias. It has to do with the elevation of the object, and that makes a lot of sense to me since my C39 disappears every time I return to the gate. So are you saying that the Z-Bias plays a part in this? When I open the Material Editor, the Z-Bias is set to 0. Does this mean that it's at a 0 elevation, right on the ground, and assigning a positive number raises it and a negative number would place the object below the 0 reference point? I've tried looking and googled search the Z-Bias and I haven't found anything that explains it and how to use it. I could not even find it in the manual, unless I'm over looking it. But I've searched everywhere.

[BTW: Please note that I previously identified the FSDT custom MDL-based scenery library object placed via FSDT Addon Manager at an assigned elevation. which is responsible for rendering the persistent underlying / intermittently super-imposed C-32 marking at run time ...as:

Path: [FSDT install path]\Addon Manager\Simobjects\Misc\FSDT_KDFW\model.KDFW_sett07_sf\KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl

Model Name: sfondo_kdfw_sett07

GUID: {597118d9-fcec-4bb9-b7a4-77eebc96d523}

Markings - Mapped Texture: KDFW_DET10.DDS

CAVEAT: This is a different object than you cited above in your latter posts as "KDFW_sett07 mdl file".

I'm not sure what you mean by what I cited above as being a different object from what you listed above. Are you talking about the file name or what? The one I used was in the path you listed above, KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl.

Possibly the above described true P3D "G-Poly" option may allow greater control over P3Dv4.x run time display of your own replacement C-39 markings relative to FSDT C-32 custom MDL-based scenery library objects placed via BGLComp at assigned elevations in the same area of FSDT KDFW ?

Thanks so much for explaining that the Ground Polygon Wizard is the True P3D G-Poly. When I used the MCX, I used the Convert and Place Object Wizard.

Assign it a "Negative Z-Bias" 'layer position' relative to other flat 3D objects (and in particular, your own "C-39" G-Poly) aligned with the ground surface in the same area of FSDT KDFW ...so that yours ALWAYS displays on top

So how do I assign that layer position relative to other flat 3D objects? I never have understand how to use it.

PS: While I appreciate that you are eager to learn more about FS scenery development via this project, I am compelled to caution you about the complexity of what you are contemplating with regards to modifying a de-compiled and exported FSDT 3D model file via GMAX or 3DSMAX.


However, if you are 'irretrievably compelled' to experiment (rather than waiting for FSDT to follow up on their very kind and considerate offer to update their KDFW product for P3Dv4.x), you may find it would be far less complex to:

* Import a COPY of the above cited KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl into MCX Ground Polygon Wizard

* Assign it a "Negative Z-Bias" 'layer position' relative to other flat 3D objects (and in particular, your own "C-39" G-Poly) aligned with the ground surface in the same area of FSDT KDFW ...so that yours ALWAYS displays on top

* Match all Material Properties (aside from the new P3D "Z-Bias") in the new MDL derived from the imported original

* Output a true P3D "G-Poly" version of that object (to be placed via BGLComp, and not via FSDT Addon Manager).

* Disable the original KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl by adding it to a ZIP file, and deleting the original

* Replace the KDFW_sett07_sf object with a custom true P3D "G-Poly" version of that object, placed via BGLComp.

Okay. I'll try all these suggestions. Thanks so much for all your help.


Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-798357

Hi Ken:

Thus far, you are working with your own custom MDL-based scenery library objects placed via BGLComp at assigned elevations relative to FSDT custom MDL-based scenery library objects placed via FSDT Addon Manager at assigned elevations.

If your ultimate target FS version is now P3Dv4.x, you may wish to consider using MCX to implement the P3Dv4.x "Z-Bias" Material Property, and then process the resulting textured 3D MDL via the MCX Ground Polygon Wizard as a true P3D "G-Poly", which allows assigning a "Negative Z-Bias" 'layer position' relative to other flat 3D objects aligned with the ground surface in the same area of FSDT KDFW.

This process is to be distinguished just making a custom MDL-based scenery library object placed via BGLComp at a assigned elevation relative to FSDT custom MDL-based scenery library objects placed via FSDT Addon Manager at assigned elevations in the same area of FSDT KDFW.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-798380

Hi Gary,
I remember you discussing this Z-Bias that's in the Material Editor in the Properties tab, and that's where I'm having a lack of understanding. Here's what I understand about the Z-Bias. It has to do with the elevation of the object, and that makes a lot of sense to me since my C39 disappears every time I return to the gate. So are you saying that the Z-Bias plays a part in this? When I open the Material Editor, the Z-Bias is set to 0. Does this mean that it's at a 0 elevation, right on the ground, and assigning a positive number raises it and a negative number would place the object below the 0 reference point? I've tried looking and googled search the Z-Bias and I haven't found anything that explains it and how to use it. I could not even find it in the manual, unless I'm over looking it. But I've searched everywhere.

...Thanks so much for explaining that the Ground Polygon Wizard is the True P3D G-Poly. When I used the MCX, I used the Convert and Place Object Wizard.

...So how do I assign that layer position relative to other flat 3D objects? I never have understand how to use it.

You may better understand Z-Bias as a Negative parameter value in MCX Ground Polygon Wizard via some of these threads:

https://www.google.com/search?ei=jdHtWumqOMKSjwSw2IOgCA&q=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+ModfelConverterX+MCX+"Z-Bias"+negative&oq=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+ModfelConverterX+MCX+"Z-Bias"+negative&gs_l=psy-ab.12...2904.4893.0.9991.3.3.0.0.0.0.181.271.1j1.2.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.0.0....0.Dza_uj7wK4E

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-798357

NOTE: I originally discussed this true P3D "G-Poly" option with you above in the thread ...here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-793085


BTW: Please note that I previously identified the FSDT custom MDL-based scenery library object placed via FSDT Addon Manager at an assigned elevation. which is responsible for rendering the persistent underlying / intermittently super-imposed C-32 marking at run time ...as:

Path: [FSDT install path]\Addon Manager\Simobjects\Misc\FSDT_KDFW\model.KDFW_sett07_sf\KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl

Model Name: sfondo_kdfw_sett07

GUID: {597118d9-fcec-4bb9-b7a4-77eebc96d523}

Markings - Mapped Texture: KDFW_DET10.DDS

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-788993


CAVEAT: This is a different object than you cited above in your latter posts as "KDFW_sett07 mdl file".

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-798380

I'm not sure what you mean by what I cited above as being a different object from what you listed above. Are you talking about the file name or what? The one I used was in the path you listed above, KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...or-updated-airport-scenery.441812/post-798263

...Oh, BTW, you mentioned that you lose a lot of information when you decompile a mdl into an obj file. I may not be doing it right but I tried that. I imported the KDFW_sett07 mdl file and exported it as FSX Object X. When I imported the object file that I just exported, it all shows up as it did before. But yesterday when I tried this, most of the details were gone. So, I don't know why I'm getting difference results.

If you import into ModelConverterX (aka "MCX"), this file:
Path: [FSDT install path]\Addon Manager\Simobjects\Misc\FSDT_KDFW\model.KDFW_sett07_sf\KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl

...in MCX Icon Toolbar > Object Information dialog box, you will see these details about the above imported MDL:

Model Name: sfondo_kdfw_sett07 <-- "Friendly Name" for this MDL

NOTE: When packaged in a 'active' scenery object library and placed via BGLComp and/or SDK BGLComp-compatible compiler in IS3 (rather than via FSDT Addon Manager), the "Friendly Name" for this MDL shows in ex: IS3 pick-list & labels

GUID: {597118d9-fcec-4bb9-b7a4-77eebc96d523} <-- "GUID" for this MDL

Markings - Mapped Texture: KDFW_DET10.DDS <-- "Mapped texture Material" for this MDL

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

Hi Gary,

Okay, I imported the KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl into MCX using the Ground Polygon Wizard and I noticed a couple of things. In the Ground Polygon Wizard under 'Layering and Visibility,' it show a layer of 8. When I opened the Material Editor and in the Properties, I noticed that the Z-Bias was also set at 8. From what I've read and understand, the layer shown in the GPW is the Z-Bias, or the same as the Z-Bias in the Material Editor and mean the same thing. So, am I correct? At first I imported the file using the Import button in MCX and when I open the Material Editor in Properties, the Z-Bias says 0. But I noticed you said to import the file using the GPW, and now both layer and the Z-Bias show 8.

I imported my C39.dae file using the GPW and it also has a layer of 8 and in the Z-Bias, it says 8. Now, the next step is to assign the KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl a "Negative Z-Bias" 'layer position' relative to my C39 aligned with the ground surface in the same area of FSDT KDFW so that the C39 is displayed on top. I want to make sure I understand correctly so does that mean to assign the Z-Bias a negative value of 8 in the Material Editor and then export the KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl file? I assume you mean this file. I'm also guessing that I can do the same thing in the GPW and setting it to negative 8, if they're both related.

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

I only have a moment before I must depart for the evening.

Do you have the P3Dv4.x SDK installed ?

If so, tick the radio button in MCX Ground Polygon Wizard for P3Dv4, and use Negative (-) parameter values for Z-Bias and layers as discussed in the threads I linked to above.

PS: Of particular note is the info in this post:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/prepar3d-v2-z-bias-material.428218/#post-718013

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

Gary,

I've already read the threads posted above, including the links, several times and they have provided me with very little information, and most of them are questions and discussions that do not answer my questions. I keep asking questions but I'm not getting any answers directly. I understand you may not have time to explain this in layman's term so to speak, and that's okay. The only way I'm going to understand or gain any knowledge is to have my questions answered directly. You can see that I don't understand what you mean when you simply say, "assign a "Negative Z-Bias" 'layer position' relative to other flat 3D objects" without giving more details or showing diagrams on 'how' to do that. I know that would take a lot of time but that's the only way I'm going to learn how to do this. I've sent David a PM but I haven't heard anything. He may be out of town, busy, or something I guess. I'm not trying to say that I don't appreciate you help. I do. It's just that I learn a lot faster and a lot more when I'm provided with detail information, manuals that show detail diagrams on how tos or some tutorial videos, and my questions answered directly.

I'm having problems with my P3D simulator and the splash screen will not come up and I get a black screen. I guess I'll have to reinstall it because nobody seems to know what caused the problem.

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

Because your own custom C-39 replacement object is an entirely flat 3D model, and the FSDT airport 3D object (C-32) is NOT, I suggest that it would be more practical to first attempt configuring only your own 3D object via the MCX Ground Polygon Wizard for P3Dv4, and to NOT attempt converting the FSDT KDFW airport KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl object ...at this point in time.

For your own custom C-39 replacement object, you may wish to initially use Negative (-) parameter values for Z-Bias and layers starting at 8, and increase that parameter value by increments of (4) units ex: 8, 12, 16, 20 etc. in each test flight of each such re-configured P3Dv4 Ground Polygon exported by MCX, to determine if proper display can be achieved on top of the FSDT airport 3D object (C-32).

The caveats cited in the thread I linked above as being "of particular note" may still merit consideration if you test this option:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/prepar3d-v2-z-bias-material.428218/#post-718013


I hope you have been able to resolve your P3Dv4 'black screen' startup issues without a full reinstallation.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/p3dv4-black-screen.442741/#post-798451


PS: Have you seen this thread marked "SOLVED" ?

https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=124773


Also, consider this 'black screen' troubleshooting scenario involving FSDT Addon Manager (aka "bglmanx.dll"):

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=15719.0

...the above thread links to a subsequent thread in which that particular users issue was 'solved':

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,15721.msg113190.html#msg113190

Many thanks to Virtuali for the info; could you also post a *.REG file fix to keep novice users out of the Windows Registry ?


Some additional links:

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=BJHvWu_nO6W6jwSuuYvgBQ&q=P3Dv4+'black+screen'+startup&oq=P3Dv4+'black+screen'+startup&gs_l=psy-ab.12...2011.2011.0.3206.1.1.0.0.0.0.125.125.0j1.1.0....0...1..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.YlsKy3n-R5w

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

PS: Have you seen this thread marked "SOLVED" ?

https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=124773

Hi Gary,
I think I recall reading that but mine is different from this user. I think he was able to get to the Scinario, or selection screen and load his flight. I can't even do that. As soon as I double click to the launch the sim, the P3D Professional Screen will come up for a couple of seconds and then it go black. I can't do anything else. I did delete the Shader folder but it made no difference. When I hit the Escape key and close the sim, this message is on my screen:

'Another SODE process is still running in the background. Please kill the process in Task Manager and restart the sim'

Well, I stopped the process in the Task Manager and it still made no difference. I don't know what else to do other than doing a complete re-install, but I just hate going through all that trouble. First, I will un-install, one at a time, the FSDT products I have and see if that make a difference.

Ken.

 

[pinkjr]

At first, that what I did. Well, actually, I just copied the KDFW Ground Polys folder from FSX to a folder I created called P3D Addon Sceneries. But I also exported them as P3Dv4 using MCX because I wasn't sure if the exported FSX files would work in P3D. I see no difference so why have an Export Type of FSX and P3D?
Because typically FSX files work on P3Dv4 but not viceversa.


BTW, when you have a model loaded in MCX and you click the Export Object button, does that export that model into an object file? And what's the difference between FSX Model Object file and the FSX Object X files?
Not 100% sure but I think the software used to create them "back in the day"


That's what I was thinking. 3DS I assume is 3D Studio Max. But I think it should work in Gmax. Not sure that 3D Studio format is backwards compatible to Gmax. But Gmax models can be imported to 3DS.

Oh, BTW, you mentioned that you lose a lot of information when you decompile a mdl into an obj file. I may not be doing it right but I tried that. I imported the KDFW_sett07 mdl file and exported it as FSX Object X. When I imported the object file that I just exported, it all shows up as it did before. But yesterday when I tried this, most of the details were gone. So, I don't know why I'm getting difference results. Me neither. I have never worked that route.

And one other thing I want to understand. In that C39 file you posted for me to use, in it is a C39.bgl file and also a C39.LIB.bgl file. From my understanding the C39.bgl is the placement file and the C39.LIB.bgl is the model file. When I export the C39 from MCX, it has never exported it as a C39.LIB.bgl. But it does export it as C39.bgl. Where, or how are you getting it to export as C39.LIB.bgl? Or, are you changing the name and adding the .LIB to it? It seems to me that when I export the model from MCX, it would export as C39.LIB.bgl. When I export, or compile using the Library Maker, I think it does compile as C39.bgl. So, that tells me the C39.LIB.bgl should come from MCX when exported, and with that name. But it always exports as C39.bgl. When I convert these files into an xml, it appears that one is the model information and the other one is the placement.
The name itself makes absolutely no difference, but never use two dots in it, bad juju. It should be C39_LIB.bgl -->this is the file that Instant Scenery will read. I always use _LIB nomenclature to differentiate that it is a library bgl that has multiple models in it. The file that places it in the sim is whatever you save it as using Instant Scenery. I think I named it C39.bgl yes. Call it KDFW_fix.bgl if the prior is confusing.

Ken

 

[pinkjr]

I've sent David a PM but I haven't heard anything. He may be out of town, busy, or something I guess.

All three assumptions correct. Plus I'm not currently developing so I don't come here as often.

 

[pinkjr]

Ahh the P3D Z-negative bias!!! I should write a book about it. Run away from it, now! LOL

 

[kmanning]

Assign it a "Negative Z-Bias" 'layer position' relative to other flat 3D objects (and in particular, your own "C-39" G-Poly) aligned with the ground surface in the same area of FSDT KDFW ...so that yours ALWAYS displays on top

* Match all Material Properties (aside from the new P3D "Z-Bias") in the new MDL derived from the imported original

* Output a true P3D "G-Poly" version of that object (to be placed via BGLComp, and not via FSDT Addon Manager).

* Disable the original KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl by adding it to a ZIP file, and deleting the original

* Replace the KDFW_sett07_sf object with a custom true P3D "G-Poly" version of that object, placed via BGLComp.

Hi Gary,
When I import the KDFW_sett07_sf.mdl into MCX using the ground poly wizard, assign a Z-Bias, and click the Convert button, I get this message:

The object contains polygons that are not ground polygons or ground polygons floating above the ground.
This will not work correctly.
Please use the provided tool to remove or lower these polygons.
Do you want to continue?

I must not be doing something right. From what I gather, you want me to make a copy of this file rather than using the one in the Addon Manager.

The other thing I thought about is that I have no idea what coordinates to put in for this model, or is that necessary?


Ken.