MSFS20 ENSX - Stavanger EMS helicopter

[Nightstalkernor]

Hi again:

The Sketchup PBR plugin author link to a set of around 100 PBR textures in his info associated with that PBR plugin.

https://github.com/SamuelTallet/Ske...download/v1.4.5/sketchup_pbr_material_lib.zip


NOTE: PBR = "Physically Based Rendering":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physically_based_rendering


That plugin Ruby script for Sketchup Make or Pro 2017 and later ...makes use of PBR texturing possible:

https://sketchucation.com/plugin/2101-pbr

https://github.com/SamuelTallet/SketchUp-PBR-Plugin#documentation

https://community.sketchucation.com...based-rendering-v1-5-9-19-apr-2020?lang=en-US

https://github.com/SamuelTallet/SketchUp-PBR-Plugin


The Sketchup *.glTF export can be imported by Blender instead of the Sketchup *.OBJ export file, to use the PBR attributes.

The Sketchup *.glTF export uses this plugin (aka "Extension") ...also by PBR plugin author Samuel Tallet (aka "centaur" / "SamuelTS"):

https://extensions.sketchup.com/extension/052071e5-6c19-4f02-a7e8-fcfcc28a2fd8/gltf-exporter


As you may know, there are numerous free and unrestricted use PBR texture download sites on the internet.


You may also wish to use another plugin "Material Browser" by the PBR plugin author to more easily access / utilize 'online' PBR textures:

https://sketchucation.com/pluginstore?pln=material_browser.


Also, he has authored this Sketchup plugin to provide a texture Material selection via the default Material menu system.

https://sketchucation.com/plugin/2365-material_browser


Included in the base set of default & web site texture Materials semi-automatically accessible via his Material Browser plugin:

Sketchup Materials currently loaded in one's project (aka "In Model"), SKM collections, Texture Haven and CC0 Textures


BTW: Since we last posted here, I found a mention of Sketchup Desktop (payware ?) 2024 being able to export glTF 3D models.


I do not yet see any version either Sketchup Desktop or online, payware or freeware after version 2018 that actually uses plugins.

AFAIK, Trimble has posted no info anywhere indicating an option to use plugins since Sketchup version 2018 (obfuscation ? ).

And yet the PBR / glTF plugins author indicates code 'compatibility' with Sketchup through versions up to 2022.


I plan to test Sketchup Desktop 2017 'Make' glTF export / compilation for MSFS 2020 and 2024, after you post SDK package code required to process your example Sketchup files attached above, as that is also important for troubleshooting MSFS 3D model texture display.


Be aware that for all practical purposes, Sketchup PBR texture Material attributes must be stored in glTF file format for 3d model export.


Furthermore, Microsoft / Asobo add several 'custom' implementations of PBR attributes for exclusive use in MSFS20 / MSFS24.

The emerging "industry standard" for a non-PBR texture material 3D model is a 'generic' Kronos version 2.0 glTF:

https://www.khronos.org/gltf/


CAVEAT: Although the internal architecture of a glTF used with MSFS SDK can be a Kronos version 2.0 glTF, PBR in MSFS requires MS-Asobo extensions to be implemented in order for PBR to successfully be rendered in the sim at run time.


However, be aware that MSFS still has retro-compatibility to display 3D models with non-PBR texture Materials, so PNG images or other non-PBR texture Materials can still be mapped onto 3D models and displayed in MSFS at run time; how long that option will exist is unknown.


Thanks to another FSDev forum participant who posted a link to an alternative region-specific imagery provider, I found this:

https://www.norgeibilder.no/?x=-321...cts=&layers=&plannedOmlop=0&plannedGeovekst=0

Compared to many other imagery tile servers, it may prove to be useful resource for Sketchup / FS utility background reference images.

View attachment 94583


The "Pink Checkerboard" is what shows if MSFS has info about a mapped texture, but cannot find it.

A mostly White texture Material with faint dirty "grunge" as an overlay also results from MSFS not finding mapped textures.


NOTE: Asobo's custom Blender exporter is currently cited as numeric version 1.3.3 compatible with Blender 3.3x and 3.6x LTS.


FYI: Ron Haertel (aka "ronh991") has a 'Fork' of that code base on GitHub which is also compatible with Blender version 4.x:

https://github.com/ronh991/Blender2MSFS2


Although I am also committed to some testing activity of my own for conversion of MSFS20 to MSFS24 SDK Projects, and preparations for US Thanksgiving holiday, I shall check back to see how you are progressing with this endeavor.

GaryGB

Hello again Gary. I need some specific input on my thoughts, if you (or anyone else for that matter ) wouldn't mind:

I am well under way with the building, but I thought I should test-run it before I continue finishing it up with more detailing.

In my head, I would like to do the following now:

1: Adding:
1.1: Windows with glass - I want to have a background (not entirely see-through, in other words)
- Same with doors
1.2: Steel webbing on the fence on the access ramp.
1.3: Steel anti-slip on the access ramp
1.4: Fabric on the balcony fence
1.5: Steel webbing on the webbing around the roof helipad.

2: Texture the model using textures from CC0-textures ( https://cc0-textures.com/c/wall )

3: Import the model into MSFS (is it possible to bypass Blender in anyway by using an Sketchup-extension?)

My questions are as follows:
1: Is it possible to follow the process mentioned above, or are there no "shortcuts here" - Keep in mind I've been using Sketchup 2017 now.

2: What do I have to consider adding textures through Sketchup 2017 using downloads from CC0-textures. Anything in particular I need to do other than importing them as material?

All input are greatly appreciated!

 

[Nightstalkernor]

I have now rebuilt the model and need inputs on the above to continue. I am very uncertain about the further process. I was unable to start a new project in msfs, but will try again tomorrow.

Please see this link for the models and textures. They are as they are when I import the model to MSFS, so maybe it's possible to spot errors already now...: https://1drv.ms/f/c/040cace4ed519d90/EkkiaSpWmNxKmRublUddcfgBh4ga3UW2kn-jm47YHEbsIQ?e=8jqhFg

 

[GaryGB]

Hi (Vetle ?)

If you attach the current build of the 3D model under discussion either as separate ZIPs that meet FSDEV forum size requirements, or link to a free cloud download site such as DropBox, MediaFire, or Google, I will retrieve and offer some feedback regarding the texturing and SDK Project building / Package compiling issues which were the basis for the OP in this thread.

WinRAR and 7-ZIP can segment a large group of files into a multi-part ZIP consisting of multiple size-limited numbered files that meets attachment limits at FSDEV.

When all parts of the file are downloaded, the self-assembling numbered ZIP "parts" can be consolidated into a single ZIP, then written out as a single folder and/or group of files


I do not publicly utilize E-Mail communications or E-Mail address disclosure via MS-OneDrive, so if a cloud service is used, it should be anonymous as is the method used by the above cloud account providers.


I would also plan to discuss Sketchup workflow methods for geometry and texturing if you start another thread on that sub-topic in the Sketchup sub-forum here at FSDEV, which can contain links to- and quotes from- this same existing thread.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forums/sketchup.112/


FYI: Threads over 2 pages long that contain a mix of sub-topics makes it difficult for the forum admins to group threads by major categories that would help with FSDEV search queries, so AFAIK, it is best to sub-divide a complex topic for projects into sub-topics, each sub-topic having its own thread (within "reasonable" limits).

While some may see this as a risk for a loss of 'continuity' for someone seeking to learn how to construct an entire project, experience in FS development forums shows that if one cites a preceding and related thread via links in the OP for such sub-topic threads, readers will not lose continuity, and newcomers seeking to learn individual tasks for FS production can find info easier.

NOTE: If you do not have an account yet at MediaFire.com, they do not spam users, or sell their info, but they do offer downloads (optional) when target files I uploaded ...are downloaded; I always tell down-loaders to only click the blue button intended to retrieve ONLY my file linked on MediaFire.

I shall check back later to see if you have your example build and related files available via an anonymous cloud download site.

GaryGB

 

[Nightstalkernor]

Hi (Vetle ?)

If you attach the current build of the 3D model under discussion either as separate ZIPs that meet FSDEV forum size requirements, or link to a free cloud download site such as DropBox, MediaFire, or Google, I will retrieve and offer some feedback regarding the texturing and SDK Project building / Package compiling issues which were the basis for the OP in this thread.

WinRAR and 7-ZIP can segment a large group of files into a multi-part ZIP consisting of multiple size-limited numbered files that meets attachment limits at FSDEV.

When all parts of the file are downloaded, the self-assembling numbered ZIP "parts" can be consolidated into a single ZIP, then written out as a single folder and/or group of files


I do not publicly utilize E-Mail communications or E-Mail address disclosure via MS-OneDrive, so if a cloud service is used, it should be anonymous as is the method used by the above cloud account providers.


I would also plan to discuss Sketchup workflow methods for geometry and texturing if you start another thread on that sub-topic in the Sketchup sub-forum here at FSDEV, which can contain links to- and quotes from- this same existing thread.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forums/sketchup.112/


FYI: Threads over 2 pages long that contain a mix of sub-topics makes it difficult for the forum admins to group threads by major categories that would help with FSDEV search queries, so AFAIK, it is best to sub-divide a complex topic for projects into sub-topics, each sub-topic having its own thread (within "reasonable" limits).

While some may see this as a risk for a loss of 'continuity' for someone seeking to learn how to construct an entire project, experience in FS development forums shows that if one cites a preceding and related thread via links in the OP for such sub-topic threads, readers will not lose continuity, and newcomers seeking to learn individual tasks for FS production can find info easier.

NOTE: If you do not have an account yet at MediaFire.com, they do not spam users, or seel their info, but they do offer downloads (optional) when target files I uploaded ...are downloaded; I always tell down-loaders to only click the blue button intended to retrieve ONLY my file linked on MediaFire.

I shall check back later to see if you have your example build and related files available via an anonymous cloud download site.

GaryGB

Thank you, and also for the advice. I am abit unsure where to start so I guess thats why all the criss-cross subjects I guess... Ill take the note going forward

Please see the attached Dropbox link, and let me know if it isn't working: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/buae...-bsb_eok?rlkey=lwwvurw8zvdmi0tb8xt9th32u&dl=0

 

[GaryGB]

Hi again:

I do have the files via DropBox, and have inspected the Sketchup exported glTF version thus far.


In further preparation for implementing the texture materials for the Sketchup model of Stavanger ENSX Helipad and Building:

Which graphics application do you use (ex: Photoshop, GIMP, Paint.NET etc.) ?


I plan to offer feedback using a 3D model on my end derived from / linked to Google Earth 3D imagery and StreetView imagery:

Please download and install Google Earth Desktop Edition (online 'web' version and Google Maps will not work for this IMHO):

https://www.google.com/earth/about/versions/

https://dl.google.com/tag/s/appguid={65E60E95-0DE9-43FF-9F3F-4F7D2DFF04B5}&iid={65E60E95-0DE9-43FF-9F3F-4F7D2DFF04B5}&lang=en&browser=4&usagestats=1&appname=Google%20Earth%20Pro&needsadmin=True&brand=GGGE/earth/client/GoogleEarthProSetup.exe


I plan to attach KMZ files that when double-clicked, will load Google Earth and zoom to the exact view I refer to in my posts.

These types of KMZ files are related to- but functionally distinct from- the 3D model project file format used in Sketchup.

GaryGB

 

[Nightstalkernor]

Hi again:

I do have the files via DropBox, and have inspected the Sketchup exported glTF version thus far.


In further preparation for implementing the texture materials for the Sketchup model of Stavanger ENSX Helipad and Building:

Which graphics application do you use (ex: Photoshop, GIMP, Paint.NET etc.) ?

I have not been using any graphics applications. I didn't know I needed any since the texturing was done in Sketchup.

I plan to offer feedback using a 3D model on my end derived from / linked to Google Earth 3D imagery and StreetView imagery:

Please download and install Google Earth Desktop Edition (online 'web' version and Google Maps will not work for this IMHO):

https://www.google.com/earth/about/versions/

https://dl.google.com/tag/s/appguid={65E60E95-0DE9-43FF-9F3F-4F7D2DFF04B5}&iid={65E60E95-0DE9-43FF-9F3F-4F7D2DFF04B5}&lang=en&browser=4&usagestats=1&appname=Google%20Earth%20Pro&needsadmin=True&brand=GGGE/earth/client/GoogleEarthProSetup.exe


I plan to attach KMZ files that when double-clicked, will load Google Earth and zoom to the exact view I refer to in my posts.

These types of KMZ files are related to- but functionally distinct from- the 3D model project file format used in Sketchup.

GaryGB

Excellent. Thank you!

 

[GaryGB]

I have not been using any graphics applications. I didn't know I needed any since the texturing was done in Sketchup.

Hi again:

GIMP and Paint.NET (free) and PhotoShop (payware) all can work with layers if you need to make Component (aka "COMP") texture Materials, and/or fill an image background with color if Alpha transparency is used for guard rail fencing or steel mesh.


BTW: Would you consider making the above objects as 'flat' planar objects, and as a 'catenary' curved drape of safety mesh ?

If so, the "fire exit" spiral stairs can also be simplified by making it as a circular tube with transparent 2D double sided Faces.


You can reduce 'geometry complexity' of those 3D models and guard rails also by making them as 2D double sided objects.

Having a scene with numerous such types of 'full 3D' objects can have an impact on MSFS run time Frame Rate (aka "FPS").


NOTE: It is possible that Arno's ModelConverterX (aka "MCX") can assign PBR attributes for 'generic' mapped texture Materials:
That "may" allow one to minimize creation of custom generic and/or PBR textures via a graphics application.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forums/modelconverterx.87/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/download-modelconverterx.14215/

https://www.scenerydesign.org/development-releases/



There are numerous potential benefits to using Arno's ModelConverterX (aka "MCX") to import , then re-export glTF files.

MSFS SDK, for example has a strict criteria for pixel array sizes that can be used with ex: PNG texture Materials to allow display.

MCX Material Editor can perform many functions, including converting all mapped texture types to PNG for use in a MSFS glTF.


Arno has implemented FS SDK-related checks / cleanups and corrections for Sketchup 3D models / textures, and can export a glTF to a basic MSFS package structure which performs much of the required work when developing for MSFS.

I recommend that you download and install MCX ...ASAP, and test it by loading a few 3D models and/or compiled 3D model BGLs etc.


I shall now be able to take a look at the example 3D models you linked to above, and will followup soon.

GaryGB

 

[Nightstalkernor]

Hi again:

GIMP and Paint.NET (free) and PhotoShop (payware) all can work with layers if you need to make Component (aka "COMP") texture Materials, and/or fill an image background with color if Alpha transparency is used for guard rail fencing or steel mesh.


BTW: Would you consider making the above objects as 'flat' planar objects, and as a 'catenary' curved drape of safety mesh ?

If so, the "fire exit" spiral stairs can also be simplified by making it as a circular tube with transparent 2D double sided Faces.


You can reduce 'geometry complexity' of those 3D models and guard rails also by making them as 2D double sided objects.

Having a scene with numerous such types of 'full 3D' objects can have an impact on MSFS run time Frame Rate (aka "FPS").


NOTE: It is possible that Arno's ModelConverterX (aka "MCX") can assign PBR attributes for 'generic' mapped texture Materials:
That "may" allow one to minimize creation of custom generic and/or PBR textures via a graphics application.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forums/modelconverterx.87/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/download-modelconverterx.14215/

https://www.scenerydesign.org/development-releases/



There are numerous potential benefits to using Arno's ModelConverterX (aka "MCX") to import , then re-export glTF files.

MSFS SDK, for example has a strict criteria for pixel array sizes that can be used with ex: PNG texture Materials to allow display.

MCX Material Editor can perform many functions, including converting all mapped texture types to PNG for use in a MSFS glTF.


Arno has implemented FS SDK-related checks / cleanups and corrections for Sketchup 3D model / texture, and exports glTF to a basic MSFS package structure which performs much of the required work when developing for MSFS.

I recommend that you download and install MCX ...ASAP, and test it by loading a few 3D models and/or compiled BGLs etc.


I shall now be able to take a look at the example 3D models you linked to above, and will followup soon.

GaryGB

Fantastic. I will cjeck out MCX and where that takes me

 

[Nightstalkernor]

Hi again:

GIMP and Paint.NET (free) and PhotoShop (payware) all can work with layers if you need to make Component (aka "COMP") texture Materials, and/or fill an image background with color if Alpha transparency is used for guard rail fencing or steel mesh.


BTW: Would you consider making the above objects as 'flat' planar objects, and as a 'catenary' curved drape of safety mesh ?

If so, the "fire exit" spiral stairs can also be simplified by making it as a circular tube with transparent 2D double sided Faces.


You can reduce 'geometry complexity' of those 3D models and guard rails also by making them as 2D double sided objects.

Having a scene with numerous such types of 'full 3D' objects can have an impact on MSFS run time Frame Rate (aka "FPS").


NOTE: It is possible that Arno's ModelConverterX (aka "MCX") can assign PBR attributes for 'generic' mapped texture Materials:
That "may" allow one to minimize creation of custom generic and/or PBR textures via a graphics application.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forums/modelconverterx.87/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/download-modelconverterx.14215/

https://www.scenerydesign.org/development-releases/



There are numerous potential benefits to using Arno's ModelConverterX (aka "MCX") to import , then re-export glTF files.

MSFS SDK, for example has a strict criteria for pixel array sizes that can be used with ex: PNG texture Materials to allow display.

MCX Material Editor can perform many functions, including converting all mapped texture types to PNG for use in a MSFS glTF.


Arno has implemented FS SDK-related checks / cleanups and corrections for Sketchup 3D models / textures, and can export a glTF to a basic MSFS package structure which performs much of the required work when developing for MSFS.

I recommend that you download and install MCX ...ASAP, and test it by loading a few 3D models and/or compiled 2D model BGLs etc.


I shall now be able to take a look at the example 3D models you linked to above, and will followup soon.

GaryGB

Hey Gary! I have made a new post regarding the textures issue, and specifically the MCX use: https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...re-model-textures-for-further-process.459389/

I guess I will continue as per your advice to seperate issues into specific threads going forward. Please see the attached link above if you may please continue to give feedback to the project Thanks for all your help so far!

 

[GaryGB]

Hello:

I plan to offer some feedback later today after attending to some weekend commitments.

While there is now a greater preponderance of folks who have migrated to Blender from Sketchup, GMAX, 3DSMAX, and FS Design Studio, there are a number of us who- like yourself- prefer initially producing 3D models in Sketchup, and then processing them via MCX and/or Blender using the MSFS exporter(s).

Perhaps you might receive more Sketchup-focused replies in the Sketchup sub-forum by also posting 'Sketchup' queries there.

But I believe all your threads may gain some valuable insights from a number of differing forum participants' workflows at FSDEV.

I'll check back soon.

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Hello again Gary. I need some specific input on my thoughts, if you (or anyone else for that matter ) wouldn't mind:

I am well under way with the building, but I thought I should test-run it before I continue finishing it up with more detailing.

In my head, I would like to do the following now:

1: Adding:
1.1: Windows with glass - I want to have a background (not entirely see-through, in other words)
- Same with doors
1.2: Steel webbing on the fence on the access ramp.
1.3: Steel anti-slip on the access ramp
1.4: Fabric on the balcony fence
1.5: Steel webbing on the webbing around the roof helipad.

2: Texture the model using textures from CC0-textures ( https://cc0-textures.com/c/wall )

3: Import the model into MSFS (is it possible to bypass Blender in anyway by using an Sketchup-extension?)

My questions are as follows:
1: Is it possible to follow the process mentioned above, or are there no "shortcuts here" - Keep in mind I've been using Sketchup 2017 now.

2: What do I have to consider adding textures through Sketchup 2017 using downloads from CC0-textures. Anything in particular I need to do other than importing them as material?

All input are greatly appreciated!

Hi again, Vetle:

Now that you have your 3D model displaying in MSFS at run time as seen here:

...in this thread elsewhere at FSDEV:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...xtures-for-further-process.459389/post-929309

...which of the above items continue to be active goals that may benefit from suggested workflows for 'practical' enhancements ?


NOTE: If you have a goal of very high 'realism' for this Heliport in MSFS, considering its flight environment and navigability:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stavanger_Heliport,_University_Hospital

...you may wish to consider additional details of true size / height IRL seen when Google Earth Street View imagery is mapped on:

NOTE: Google would not allow use of their imagery for either freeware or payware packages; it is used here for illustration only.


PS: To further enhance ENSX' local environment & flight challenge, you may also wish to add 3D models of its 'nearest' buildings.

GaryGB

 

[Nightstalkernor]

Hi again, Vetle:

Now that you have your 3D model displaying in MSFS at run time as seen here:

...in this thread elsewhere at FSDEV:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...xtures-for-further-process.459389/post-929309

...which of the above items continue to be active goals that may benefit from suggested workflows for 'practical' enhancements ?

Well, currently I am a question mark in what I should do in the continuing, but at least I am a bit further in the understanding of things.

Right now i am prioritizing the following:
1: I am going to add more detail to the model; doors, windows and different materials especially on the safety nets and such. I could probably use some advice on how to prepare the Sketchup model as best as possible for any later conversions of those types of materials (In MCX?). Should I pick a certain material to make it stand out? The safetynets and windows need to be see through. I believe there are resources to figure this out without a specific thread about it, so Ill see how far I get before I have to throw in the towel and ask for specific help...

I would also need to adjust either the terrain or the building to better fit together, for example the ramp and ambulance parking spot is a bit too high, but if I adjust the model down the platform disappears. I am abit unsure on how to adjust this, but I will look into it and make a new thread if still an issue.

Furthermore (mentioned mostly for my own planning, but please feel free to comment on any parts! ):
2-1: I want to texture the model to fit a more "correct" color and material. I could probably use some tips on how to do this without texture image repetitiveness and abrupt merging between two texture images - but that is probably a topic for when the problem arises.
2-2: I see already that some of the materials added to the model are very shiny, ie the roof above the ambulance parking space and also the ramp to the roof pad, which should be less glossy. I presume I can edit this in MCX materials editor?
3: I want to add fences around the helipad. I guess I can do this through the MSFS SDK
4: I want to add a helicopter trolley which is collideable (?) and possible to start from
5: The roof needs to be collideable and also possible to start from
6: Maybe other details such as fuel hoses, street details, terrain and so on. I am a little bit unsure about doing too much outside the building area itself as to not make the scenery too "cartoonish". Same goes with terrain. The satelite imagery is good enough as long as the building and helipad areas are "top notch"(!).

NOTE: If you have a goal of very high 'realism' for this Heliport in MSFS, considering its flight environment and navigability:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stavanger_Heliport,_University_Hospital

I do indeed have ambitions of making high realism scenery for many EMHS helipads around Norway, so that is a very helpful tip right there! I am familiar with ENSX since I live nearby, but others are more unfamiliar. Thanks!

...you may wish to consider additional details of true size / height IRL seen when Google Earth Street View imagery is mapped on:

View attachment 94635

NOTE: Google would not allow use of their imagery for either freeware or payware packages; it is used here for illustration only.

Oh, I see what you did! You are talking about drawing on top of the building images itself? Until now I've only used aerial imagery and height data from a Norwegian website to clarify terrain and building dimensions, but the details regarding the balcony, windows and such is indeed useful to draw on top of an image. Thanks!

PS: To further enhance ENSX' local environment & flight challenge, you may also wish to add 3D models of its 'nearest' buildings.

I will most certainly also add the surrounding buildings. That has been the plan all along, I just need to figure out how to best sort it out practically - and of course learn how to use Scetchup which is slowly but steadily coming in place

Thank you Gary. You've been of great help!

 

[Nightstalkernor]

Well, currently I am a question mark in what I should do in the continuing, but at least I am a bit further in the understanding of things.

Right now i am prioritizing the following:
1: I am going to add more detail to the model; doors, windows and different materials especially on the safety nets and such. I could probably use some advice on how to prepare the Sketchup model as best as possible for any later conversions of those types of materials (In MCX?). Should I pick a certain material to make it stand out? The safetynets and windows need to be see through. I believe there are resources to figure this out without a specific thread about it, so Ill see how far I get before I have to throw in the towel and ask for specific help...

I would also need to adjust either the terrain or the building to better fit together, for example the ramp and ambulance parking spot is a bit too high, but if I adjust the model down the platform disappears. I am abit unsure on how to adjust this, but I will look into it and make a new thread if still an issue.

Furthermore (mentioned mostly for my own planning, but please feel free to comment on any parts! ):
2-1: I want to texture the model to fit a more "correct" color and material. I could probably use some tips on how to do this without texture image repetitiveness and abrupt merging between two texture images - but that is probably a topic for when the problem arises.
2-2: I see already that some of the materials added to the model are very shiny, ie the roof above the ambulance parking space and also the ramp to the roof pad, which should be less glossy. I presume I can edit this in MCX materials editor?
3: I want to add fences around the helipad. I guess I can do this through the MSFS SDK
4: I want to add a helicopter trolley which is collideable (?) and possible to start from
5: The roof needs to be collideable and also possible to start from
6: Maybe other details such as fuel hoses, street details, terrain and so on. I am a little bit unsure about doing too much outside the building area itself as to not make the scenery too "cartoonish". Same goes with terrain. The satelite imagery is good enough as long as the building and helipad areas are "top notch"(!).

I do indeed have ambitions of making high realism scenery for many EMHS helipads around Norway, so that is a very helpful tip right there! I am familiar with ENSX since I live nearby, but others are more unfamiliar. Thanks!

Oh, I see what you did! You are talking about drawing on top of the building images itself? Until now I've only used aerial imagery and height data from a Norwegian website to clarify terrain and building dimensions, but the details regarding the balcony, windows and such is indeed useful to draw on top of an image. Thanks!


I will most certainly also add the surrounding buildings. That has been the plan all along, I just need to figure out how to best sort it out practically - and of course learn how to use Scetchup which is slowly but steadily coming in place

Thank you Gary. You've been of great help!

Also: Do I have to think about optimizing the scenery through mipmapping and such with a scenery this size? (in my head small?)

 

[GaryGB]

Well, currently I am a question mark in what I should do in the continuing, but at least I am a bit further in the understanding of things.

Right now i am prioritizing the following:
1: I am going to add more detail to the model; doors, windows and different materials especially on the safety nets and such. I could probably use some advice on how to prepare the Sketchup model as best as possible for any later conversions of those types of materials (In MCX?). Should I pick a certain material to make it stand out? The safety nets and windows need to be see through. I believe there are resources to figure this out without a specific thread about it, so Ill see how far I get before I have to throw in the towel and ask for specific help...

IIRC, one of your latter textures of a steel mesh or fencing already has an Alpha channel, and can be mapped onto a Face ?

If so, auto-tiling images can be merged into a 1-piece texture using Sketchup "Make Unique Texture" feature.

As for Windows, do you want to see inside the buildings rooms, or merely have a reflective and specular surface that displays images from the surrounding environment as seen in real life ?

BTW: If you live nearby, you can take digital photos on a camera or have film photo negatives scanned to create digital images.

Then the images are yours, so no conflict with DRM issues involving a Google Street View license.

If you use a good quality mobile phone camera, try to not use a wide angle zoom, and take several images of each side of the building by side-stepping 2 to 4 'side-paces' at a normal zoom, to avoid the inevitable "fish-eye" effect on digital cameras that do not have a full size (expensive) CCD sensor.

That way you can map multiple adjacent images on Faces, and use "Combine Textures" to merge them (in Sketchup 2016).

Why 2016 ?

Because 2017 'broke' the Combine Textures feature for vertical Faces, and it was (purposely ?) never fixed.

Otherwise, an online texture similar to the building exterior is likely to look OK if kept 'bright' enough.

But if you do have the option of a field trip to Stavanger with a camera, take an zoomed individual image of each window Face.

Those can be mapped onto the window pane Face inside the window frame Face (that is textured with another image or color).

I would also need to adjust either the terrain or the building to better fit together, for example the ramp and ambulance parking spot is a bit too high, but if I adjust the model down the platform disappears. I am a bit unsure on how to adjust this, but I will look into it and make a new thread if still an issue.

It is likely you can fix this via trial-and-error by sinking the building base into the FS terrain, after adjusting building wall height (altitude of the actual Helipad AGL to local ground is determined after mapping the wall imagery onto the sized geometry).

Google's Ruler tool works well if used properly... for both top-down and Street View mode 3D objects

The building itself will end up sized correctly if you map Google Street View images onto building geometry as a (temporary) background for 3D modeling, or use your own digital photos mapped onto a properly measured building surface in Sketchup.

It is possible that I could process some Norway (1 Meter interval ?) elevation data to make a local ENSX 'mesh' for Sketchup.

Then even if the FPS in Sketchup 'chokes' on the vertex density, you could at least draw reference lines alongside the building.

Furthermore (mentioned mostly for my own planning, but please feel free to comment on any parts! ):

2-1: I want to texture the model to fit a more "correct" color and material. I could probably use some tips on how to do this without texture image repetitiveness and abrupt merging between two texture images - but that is probably a topic for when the problem arises.

As stated above, you could probably get close with an online texture set, but if taking your own digital photos on a bright but overcast day is an option, then that might get the best result.

2-2: I see already that some of the materials added to the model are very shiny, ie the roof above the ambulance parking space and also the ramp to the roof pad, which should be less glossy. I presume I can edit this in MCX materials editor?

I am fairly certain MCX can adjust most of what may be needed with Material attributes; otherwise one can use a graphics app.

3: I want to add fences around the helipad. I guess I can do this through the MSFS SDK

MSFS has "Fence" library objects one can use; but making a custom chain-link Fence is easy with a 2-sided transparent texture.

The texture can also be 'draped' onto a curved surface made with a "catenary" droop of the mesh as seen in Google Street View.

4: I want to add a helicopter trolley which is collide-able (?) and possible to start from

That is a clever apparatus (even if home-made ?) at Stavanger; we have an EC-135 at the local hospital that uses a roller base.

I'll check to see if MSFS SDK has a true platform feature like prior versions of FS in their "Fake Terrain" object.

5: The roof needs to be collide-able and also possible to start from

See above reply.

6: Maybe other details such as fuel hoses, street details, terrain and so on. I am a little bit unsure about doing too much outside the building area itself as to not make the scenery too "cartoonish". Same goes with terrain. The satellite imagery is good enough as long as the building and helipad areas are "top notch"(!).

One can control grass length and density for the lawn areas if desired.

Using the default Fuel apparatus so that it pops up when a Helo is in close proximity on the ground level pad / track may be fun.

Perhaps even the concrete stairs, railings, sidewalk and flowerbed plants may still look good if made FPS efficient.

I do indeed have ambitions of making high realism scenery for many EMHS helipads around Norway, so that is a very helpful tip right there! I am familiar with ENSX since I live nearby, but others are more unfamiliar. Thanks!

How many EMHS helipad locations do you anticipate making ?

Oh, I see what you did! You are talking about drawing on top of the building images itself? Until now I've only used aerial imagery and height data from a Norwegian website to clarify terrain and building dimensions, but the details regarding the balcony, windows and such is indeed useful to draw on top of an image. Thanks!

See above reply.

I will most certainly also add the surrounding buildings. That has been the plan all along, I just need to figure out how to best sort it out practically - and of course learn how to use Sketchup which is slowly but steadily coming in place

Indeed, your attention to detail is admirable, and has already yielded a great looking 3D model even at this stage.

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Also: Do I have to think about optimizing the scenery through mipmapping and such with a scenery this size? (in my head small?)

Arno's MCX automatically does this for us with Material Editor and Drawcall Minimizer processing.


If you are referring to making Level-Of-Detail (aka "LOD") sub-models within the ModelLib BGL, Arno's MCX can do that too.

However, IIRC, some editing of the MSFS Project XML may still be needed to make LODs work properly.

The LODs are more forgiving in MSFS20; but in MSFS2024, the 3D model does not show until one is fairly close up.

GaryGB

 

[Nightstalkernor]

IIRC, one of your latter textures of a steel mesh or fencing already has an Alpha channel, and can be mapped onto a Face ?

If so, auto-tiling images can be merged into a 1-piece texture using Sketchup "Make Unique Texture" feature.

Excellent. Will test this out. I previously added some sort of mesh resembling some sort of fencing, but it wasn't see through and ended up being more or less all black when imported to Blender, so I might come back with a specific thread regarding this if I can't make it work.

As for Windows, do you want to see inside the buildings rooms, or merely have a reflective and specular surface that displays images from the surrounding environment as seen in real life ?

I have not bothered making the inside of the building so I will only add a texture which will represent some sort of image on the inner part of the window section, window curtains for example, and then some space until the transparent window surface itself. This has not been a problem to represent in Sketchup, so I am familiar on how to proceed here, but there may be an issue when trying to import the same material into msfs, so some sort of texture editing in MCX must probably happen?

BTW: If you live nearby, you can take digital photos on a camera or have film photo negatives scanned to create digital images.

Then the images are yours, so no conflict with DRM issues involving a Google Street View license.

If you use a good quality mobile phone camera, try to not use a wide angle zoom, and take several images of each side of the building by side-stepping 2 to 4 'side-paces' at a normal zoom, to avoid the inevitable "fish-eye" effect on digital cameras that do not have a full size (expensive) CCD sensor.

I do live nearby, but I want to keep a standard which will represent all the helibases I intend to make whereas I am unable to collect any non-copyrighted image (I won't bother spending time searching for any). So I will continue making the whole scenery, expect maybe small details, from scratch.

Google's Ruler tool works well if used properly... for both top-down and Street View mode 3D objects

The building itself will end up sized correctly if you map Google Street View images are mapped onto building geometry as a (temporary) background for 3D modeling, or use your own digital photos mapped onto a properly measured building surface in Sketchup.

It is possible that I could process some Norway (1 Meter interval ?) elevation data to make a local ENSX 'mesh' for Sketchup.

Then even if the FPS in Sketchup 'chokes' on the vertex density, you could at least draw reference lines alongside the building.

Excellent tip. I've only drawn on top of a satelite/topography image for now, but using the actual building also is golden! Thanks!

MSFS has "Fence" library objects one can use; but making a custom chain-link Fence is easy with a 2-sided transparent texture.

The texture can also be 'draped' onto a curved surface made with a "catenary" droop of the mesh as seen in Google Street View.

Excellent. Ill check out the "drape" feature and see how that works out.

That is a clever apparatus (even if home-made ?) at Stavanger; we have an EC-135 at the local hospital that uses a roller base.

I'll check to see if MSFS SDK has a true platform feature like prior versions of FS in their "Fake Terrain" object.

If they do have some premade trolleys that would work, but it really was no issue making one myself. I found some images of the one in Stavanger and 30 minutes in Sketchup resulted in a good looking model. Adding a helipad base in MSFS SDK right beneath the surface of the model would probably be sufficient to make some sort of collision model to the trolley?

One can control grass length and density for the lawn areas if desired.

Perfect!

Using the default Fuel apparatus so that it pops up when a Helo is in close proximity on the ground level pad / track may be fun.

Nope! I hate that function popping up....Only statics

Perhaps even the concrete stairs, railings, sidewalk and flowerbed plants may still look good if made FPS efficient.

Yeah thats another detailing question indeed. I have not yet any experience understanding optimization and the actual need for it, so I wonder if I can download a low-poly 3D model from the sketchup workshop which represent plants and such and still keep the FPS negative effect negligible. Have you got any experience with this?

How many EMHS helipad locations do you anticipate making ?

Hah, well... "all of them"? But seriously...all of them, atleast the most relevant ones. I find making the helipads from standard reference images takes maybe a day, and then there are the adjecent buildings, following the texturing and such which I have not really dug too deep into - so depending on potential hickups there; if all goes relatively effective, if all it takes is time I plan to make most, if not all.

Indeed, your attention to detail is admirable, and has already yielded a great looking 3D model even at this stage.

Thanks! It's a great motivation to continue with such great help understanding all of this, and getting such quick feedback from you!

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Vetle:

The updated 3D model gets better every day.

I have been trying to get some detailed Norway elevation data from a government website without success.

Using version 3+ of SRTM I get ~8.6532 Feet from the South building base at the hangar door to the North ramp base.

You have a Helipad asphalt surface of 73.3 Feet, which is IMHO, closer to IRL than stated in the wiki cited above.

If one uses Google Earth ruler tool in a top-down view zoomed to fill the workspace, the Helipad is larger than in the wiki.

The wiki states the Helipad asphalt surface is 60 Feet.

I get a 74 E-W x 75 N-S Feet Helipad (it is probably square; Google's weird GIS quasi-projection for off-nadir distorts E-W axis).

If one uses that and offsets the gutters, and 2 inset sections above the walls as seen in corner views of Street View imagery, one can derive a more accurate overall building size when Street view imagery is mapped onto a 'primitive' of the building.

I'll post more info shortly.

GaryGB

 

[Nightstalkernor]

Hi Vetle:

The updated 3D model gets better every day.

I have been trying to get some detailed Norway elevation data from a government website without success.

Using version 3+ of SRTM I get ~8.6532 Feet from the South building base at the hangar door to the North ramp base.

You have a Helipad asphalt surface of 73.3 Feet, which is IMHO, closer to IRL than stated in the wiki cited above.

If one uses Google Earth ruler tool in a top-down view zoomed to fill the workspace, the Helipad is larger than in the wiki.

The wiki states the Helipad asphalt surface is 60 Feet.

I get a 74 E-W x 75 N-S Feet Helipad (it is probably square; Google's weird GIS quasi-projection for off-nadir distorts E-W axis).

If one uses that and offsets the gutters, and 2 inset sections above the walls as seen in corner views of Street View imagery,
one can derive a more accurate overall building size when Street view imagery is mapped onto a 'primitive' of the building.

I'll post more info shortly.

GaryGB

I am somewhat happy with the current dimensions just drawing over the topography. I think this method works great along with the height profile tool in a Norwegian government chart site. It's close enough as of now, atleast, but I remains to see how it actually plays out with a helo on the pad in the sim...

I am currently finishing up the main building and are planning on adding texture to the windows. I also added a small cable between the hangar and the trolley. I like the effect, but I am a bit unsure how it will play out in the sim... . I also like the look of the doors even though they are simple models. The hangar gate was also adjusted with some bending detail which I liked.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Vetle:

Looks like you are coming along quite well, and have a carefully-considered plan for the current site and future locations.


The details of your work look very good in the screenshots.

It may prove helpful in the final build to consider a modification of the geometry complexity on most of the railings and safety enclosure cage for the circular stairway and ramp, and perhaps the support arms for the safety netting, at least in the lower detail LODs.

If one flies in to that Helipad with a high detail Helo with sophisticated avionics and perhaps even add-on avionics and flight management computer modules running, one may find flight physics are impacted, and could increase the level of challenge landing on the Helipad safely without crashes.

The MSFS rendering engine is much more efficient than prior FS2Kx versions, but one may wish to allow a bit of 'wiggle room' to accommodate a mix of end users with less powerful computers to be able to successfully load and fly ones scenery without a perceptible adverse impact on FPS and controllability of Helo flight dynamics.

Later today I will try to do a test of concept on a method to make an 'undulating' safety net shape that fits onto the support arms, which is mapped with a transparent PBR texture Material that has precise mesh image continuity via a merged self-tiling Albedo image.

I will also try to reply to your other questions, before I redirect my activities in preparation for a trip up North for the US Thanksgiving holiday weekend.

GaryGB

 

[Nightstalkernor]

Hi Vetle:

Looks like you are coming along quite well, and have a carefully-considered plan for the current site and future locations.


The details of your work look very good in the screenshots.

It may prove helpful in the final build to consider a modification of the geometry complexity on most of the railings and safety enclosure cage for the circular stairway and ramp, and perhaps the support arms for the safety netting, at least in the lower detail LODs.

I see your point. I am certainly interested in replacing the complex stairway with a detailed material which is transparent in the right places but still gives the "righ impression" of being what it actually is. Certainly. I am currently a bit unsure about how it will work out visually though. I could probably split the object in two and replace the bottom part with a material, but I am sceptical about replacing the upper one, considering that will be in full view when on the roof platform. But then again, I have no idea how this and that will have an effect or not on performance. If the effect is significantly negative, of course I will have to make some adjustment and would also be easy to remove and replace... But I guess I will have to test this out - and of course listen to feedback after publishing... . Webbing for the fences and such can be 2D materials. I don't really care about those as long as they represent what they're supposed to be.

Support arms are one of the details I like, but of course it stands the same as the above mentioned argument for/against. I'd like to keep it, but if it has a significant impact on performance it can easily be adjusted. I am a bit excited about the FPS impact these projects will have...

Later today I will try to do a test of concept on a method to make an 'undulating' safety net shape that fits onto the support arms, which is mapped with a transparent PBR texture Material that has precise mesh image continuity via a merged self-tiling Albedo image.

I would love to hear your inputs on how to approach this. Looking forward to it!

I will also try to reply to your other questions, before I redirect my activities in preparation for a trip up North for the US Thanksgiving holiday weekend.

And again; looking forward to your input! Have a great thanksgiving weekend!