-Everything you know about upcoming Flight Sim from Microsoft-

n4gix

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Mostly 'backwards compatibility' with "Legacy" (FSX/P3D) models! Wow...

But, already pages and pages and even more pages of whining from the "VR or I won't buy" crowd (all six or so of 'em) at AVSIM. :rotfl:
 

rhumbaflappy

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Lots of information to digest. Seasons? No(?) Perhaps in an update. Helicopters? No(?) Perhaps in an update. No Ai or ATC (?) Perhaps in an update.

FSX-based? It appears they have picked it over a bit with much rewritten. Some aircraft from FSX might work (but I'll bet not up to the level most aircraft collectors would like). The rendering engine and physics are completely new.

Offline mode looks like a system of vectors and tiled landclass with autogen. The developers claim the vectors will nearly match the online mode, so there might not be much work needed by 3rd party developers here. You can use the internet to download (pre-cache) the scenery for a more immersive look. They are using Bing imagery as well as other sources, and they have a software routine to scrub oddities (like shadows and building footprints) and match colors across the terrain. Weather is from themes or real-time real-world data. With 44,000 airports, there is room for developers here. Aircraft modeling should be lucrative, is the user-base is large enough, but they will need to lure in the heavy metal simmers. No Ai or ATC would be a problem.

The CPU and GPU will need to be higher-end, and I would guess Windows 10 with at least 16GB memory.

The developers are not pilots or sim enthusiasts. So they come as lambs to the upcoming slaughter. The emphasis is on the look and feel of General Aviation. Commercial aircraft and military enthusiasts may need to stick to P3D. Not much word on missions, aerocache hunting or job boards (as in Flight).

Back to the popcorn.
 
Many thanks for the links to the informative articles and videos. :)


Asobo's development team and MS' staff appear to have humility, enthusiasm, and dedication to doing this properly. :pushpin:


BTW:

Hal Bryan said:
http://inspire.eaa.org/2019/09/30/an-inside-look-at-microsofts-newest-flight-simulator/


"Asobo’s second step was to review all of the existing code in FSX to determine what to adapt, what to upgrade, what to emulate, and how to integrate a simulation system with its visualization engine. And Asobo’s first step? To buy everyone in the company an introductory flight lesson to make sure they had a firsthand taste for what they were going to build. Now the company estimates that something like 60 percent of the team is actively involved in flight training.


This was especially important to Asobo CEO and Co-Founder — not to mention avid pilot — Sebastian Wloch.


“Having spent so many hours flying in real life, I think it totally changed the picture,” he said. “When you are in the gaming industry, you are tweaking the reality in order to make something interesting. Here, we have to be as close as possible to the reality to bring something interesting. … The first thing and the most important thing I understood is flying in the real world is fun and interesting. It’s actually a great experience, and this immediately triggered the fact that if we just emulate reality in the best way possible, we don’t have to add anything …. There’s no need to make it a game.”

MSFS-2020 looks very good already in the 'pre-Alpha' videos; I'll be eagerly looking forward to seeing future updates.


For many, this is a dream come true; IMHO, even an initial release is likely to keep the FS Community happy for years. :cool:



PS: AFAIK, the only connection between flight simulation and popcorn is Orville Redenbacher's first name. ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orville_Redenbacher

GaryGB
 
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rhumbaflappy

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This link is to an audio interview. It's a bit more informative than what I've read:

https://www.flightsim.com/images/features/msfdev/FlightSim.com-Microsoft_Flight_Simulator_Interview_AUDIO.m4a

The claim that they've already contacted 3rd party developers seems odd. I haven't read anything about that. And it seems these developers will be given a functional SDK around the same time as the tech alpha build... but the actual SDK will be a work in progress and delivered at the release of the sim. Also, the sim and the SDK will very much be a work in progress, much like Windows 10 or P3D... continually getting updates. That could be a headache for developrs as the addons could be broken by new versions of the sim or the SDK. 2D panels are gone. Seasons might get added post release. As might helicopters, ATC and Ai.
 
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hairyspin

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No 2D panel? Cue the Chopin (piano sonata no.2 opus 35, third movement, you know the one...!!) :rotfl:

 
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Im just doing a little happy dance since almost all the stuff I said in my video is coming true. Except the RTX reflections. Seems that its just screen space! Im glad I was wrong on that one. RTX ray tracing takes a LOT of frames away.
 

Deano1973

Resource contributor
Mostly 'backwards compatibility' with "Legacy" (FSX/P3D) models! Wow...

But, already pages and pages and even more pages of whining from the "VR or I won't buy" crowd (all six or so of 'em) at AVSIM. :rotfl:
Backward compatibility is indeed a wonderful thing, but in all fairness to the VR guys I do get it - as a real-world trained pilot, P3D or X-11 in VR is still going to trump the new sim on a screen - there is just no comparison now to the "truly being there" feel of VR. That said, third-party folks like FSX FlyInside will probably fill the vacuum quickly with software to do the job for us - I certainly hope so anyway, as the new sim's world is absolutely gorgeous and those weather systems a dream come true! :)
 
The developers are not pilots or sim enthusiasts. So they come as lambs to the upcoming slaughter.
Amongst the various videos and articles I've read I'm sure it was mentioned that a number of Asobo staff got their pilot licences. I believe they have a cockpit model of a DR400 at their workplace which they can use to compare flight characteristics with the real thing at the local airport.
 

Heretic

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Look at Star Citizen development model... if they don't publish how much toilet paper they use Weekly, the community draw the pitchforks and torchs immediately.
We DEMAND to know hoy many polys are in those blades of grass... or how many meters of toilet paper they're using at least.
Apples and oranges. If sometihng is crowdfunded, you sure have a right to know what you money is doing at the moment. But since FS2020 uses a classic funding model, they only have obligations toward their publisher.
 
Apples and oranges. If sometihng is crowdfunded, you sure have a right to know what you money is doing at the moment. But since FS2020 uses a classic funding model, they only have obligations toward their publisher.
That's totally true, but for many people on the internet "Open development" means "As soon as possible" and "Without delays".
And that is why we have the "Early Access" cancer in the games industry.
 

rhumbaflappy

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Backward compatibility is indeed a wonderful thing, but in all fairness to the VR guys I do get it - as a real-world trained pilot, P3D or X-11 in VR is still going to trump the new sim on a screen - there is just no comparison now to the "truly being there" feel of VR. That said, third-party folks like FSX FlyInside will probably fill the vacuum quickly with software to do the job for us - I certainly hope so anyway, as the new sim's world is absolutely gorgeous and those weather systems a dream come true! :)
They'll have VR. Just not in the Alpha, and perhaps not in the initial release. This is going to be an ongoing project similar to the updates of P3D.
 
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/everything-you-know-about-upcoming-flight-sim-from-microsoft.445504/post-830360

This link is to an audio interview. It's a bit more informative than what I've read:

https://www.flightsim.com/images/features/msfdev/FlightSim.com-Microsoft_Flight_Simulator_Interview_AUDIO.m4a

The claim that they've already contacted 3rd party developers seems odd. I haven't read anything about that. And it seems these developers will be given a functional SDK around the same time as the tech alpha build... but the actual SDK will be a work in progress and delivered at the release of the sim. Also, the sim and the SDK will very much be a work in progress, much like Windows 10 or P3D... continually getting updates. That could be a headache for developrs as the addons could be broken by new versions of the sim or the SDK. 2D panels are gone. Seasons might get added post release. As might helicopters, ATC and Ai.

Here is an un-official transcribed excerpt from the above interview with 2 members of the Microsoft Flight Simulator team, Jorg Neumann, Head of Microsoft Flight Simulator, and Sebastian Wloch, CEO, Co-Founder, Asobo Studio:

https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/content.php?19795-Microsoft-Flight-Simulator-Developer-Interview

Dominic Smith said:
https://www.flightsim.com/images/features/msfdev/FlightSim.com-Microsoft_Flight_Simulator_Interview_AUDIO.m4a

What about .. Content?

If you look at sites like FlightSim.com, if you look at our file library we have thousands and thousands of files generously donated by thousands of authors over the years. Is this something which is going to be available to these guys ? Are we going to still be able to have these files in our file library for example...things like this. Is Freeware content going to be available for the Sim?
Jorg Neumann said:
https://www.flightsim.com/images/features/msfdev/FlightSim.com-Microsoft_Flight_Simulator_Interview_AUDIO.m4a

Yes, from a Microsoft perspective, absolutely.

We love that there is dedicated fans. It's one of these areas of the industry that has probably the most dedicated fans, and we definitely want them to be able to do what they love doing. Seb, do you have any technical things to add?
Sebastian Wloch said:
https://www.flightsim.com/images/features/msfdev/FlightSim.com-Microsoft_Flight_Simulator_Interview_AUDIO.m4a

Yes, and some more details about… so, basically, today we are not fully dialing into any SDK questions, like what are the file formats etc..

A few details: the idea is just to say that we started with FSX, and we are making every system that was used to mod and customize ...either better, or we are adding options, or we are making it easier; but we are not removing things that people could do.

For example, on the aircraft there was .X Files to customize or to create aircraft, and then there was these binaries, it was absolutely the same type of data ...it was just binaries, so it was harder to author.

So we have removed no data and no option to actually customize data, but we made everything text. So it's easier, but still comfortable with the binaries; so the binary is still open but it's now all possible to customize it in text.

We also exposed more variables, so none of them have been removed, but some of them were not open ...and now they are.

And it's the same for something for example like SimConnect, which I think we use for physical cockpit; we debugged some of the exposed variables, and added a lot.

So the idea is really to take what was happening in the past ...further and forward.

We are opening doors, we are making doors easier to get through, and we are not closing any doors.

IMHO, this is very good news for FS Developers ...both Freeware and Payware ! :)

GaryGB
 
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I haven't been following 2020 discussion closely so maybe this has already been discussed. But how likely is this going to be a subscription service? I mean, so many software publishers want to go that route (hello Adobe) and I think the expectation that you buy FS2020 and then get free scenery downloading for the years to come... well that just screams subscription service to me. Maybe you can buy FS2020 and get a limited scenery set but the rest of the downloadable scenery comes with a subscription?
 
So far pricing has not been discussed by Microsoft. A subscription has only been alluded at, as its going to cost Microsoft a small fortune to "rent" out Bing maps data and also the servers its going to need to dish it out to so many users. With the fact that these maps are optional (offline mode is supported with pure autogen), the subscription can also be optional. This is ALL speculation at the moment. Having a internal add-on store could be another way to pay for the server. But right now, Microsoft has stated that pricing has not been finalized.

I haven't been following 2020 discussion closely so maybe this has already been discussed. But how likely is this going to be a subscription service? I mean, so many software publishers want to go that route (hello Adobe) and I think the expectation that you buy FS2020 and then get free scenery downloading for the years to come... well that just screams subscription service to me. Maybe you can buy FS2020 and get a limited scenery set but the rest of the downloadable scenery comes with a subscription?
 

rhumbaflappy

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The pricing is simple. It's your first born child.


And the sim will be good enough that you will pay it.
Sorry Abby, but I must have it. :p
 

DragonflightDesign

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<off topic>Adobe Photographer's Package... I ran the figures on that one using the price of a boxed copy of CS6 as the baseline and assuming a new version every three years. It takes close to thirty years before the cost of the subscription gets anywhere near the price of ten copies of CS6. No-brainer, for once. </off topic>
 
I haven't been following 2020 discussion closely so maybe this has already been discussed. But how likely is this going to be a subscription service? I mean, so many software publishers want to go that route (hello Adobe) and I think the expectation that you buy FS2020 and then get free scenery downloading for the years to come... well that just screams subscription service to me.
They have indeed discussed a subscription as well as limited scenery for offline users. I suggest that you watch one of the videos or read one of the articles linked yesterday. They explain it far better than I can.
 

Heretic

Resource contributor
And that is why we have the "Early Access" cancer in the games industry.
Early Access is a good concept if pricing reflects the current status.

Kerbal Space Program was my first early access game and the $18 were totally worth it, considering its success and current pricetag.
 
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