Exclusion cause autogen suppression

[jtanabodee]

Hi,
I was wondering if my autogens were suppressed by ground poly or something else. So, I find that my ground poly do some suppression but the file cause most suppression is the exclusion file from ADE. I am using ADE 1.65. I am not sure if it because ADE is too old and the problem was get rid by the new one yet.
But it is weird since when I use xml file and recompile to see what cause that suppression. I found that the result is the same whether I got the file from ADE or XML. I think ADE is supposed to make a small rectangle of exclusion to all the object in default airport and generate XML code and compile to bgl. But it seems like it generate a big bounding box to compress all the autogen too. I am trying to edit the exclusion XML and see which code cause that compression.
Before exclusion:

After exclusion:

 

[mitsoswu]

I think ADE 1,75 is the newer version .... although i'm using ADE 1777018 beta version now. (P3D4)

I was following this tutorial here :

Don't know if that helps you, but i used it in combination with GIMP and it worked pretty good, helped me a lot. (you can use photoshop as well)

 

[=rk=]

Autogen is suppressed by photo ground, you have to manually add autogen over photographic style ground polygons.

 

[jtanabodee]

Autogen is suppressed by photo ground, you have to manually add autogen over photographic style ground polygons.

I have checked that by removing almost all the bgl files and left over just only Photoscenery (by resample tool). Autogens were there. Then I added all the ground poly (custom made ground poly and converted by MCX). Autogens were still there. When I added all the 3d models (XML has <NoAutogenSuppression> and compiled with bglcomp), autogens were there. But when I ADE files, (separated Airport file, Object file and CVX file), I found that the object file was the bad guys, did the suppression. When I look up Obj file, there are only the exclusion file to exclude the default airport. There are a lot of exclusion, small area I guess. But the suppression is huge.
I will try to find the exclusion that cause compression of autogen later.
The problem is definitely not the custom ground poly as I though earlier.

 

[jtanabodee]

I did a test and I found the XML line that cause a wide autogen suppression.
<ExclusionRectangle
latitudeMinimum="8.10333111289738"
latitudeMaximum="8.11531559947454"
longitudeMinimum="98.3009969488353"
longitudeMaximum="98.3341800054224"
excludeAllObjects="TRUE"/>
This exclusion rectangle is quite big and it cause autogen suppression a wide area. Unfortunately, I cannot just throw it out.

Picture below is without this line of exclusion. There is a big black shadow which I don't know what it is. There is no terminal buildings or something at all.

After this line of exclusion, the big black shadow disappear. All the autogen disappear too.

My conclusion is the exclusion rectangle cause autogen suppression. But I cannot do something about that since there is a "black thing" needs that line to be excluded.
So, I will do the models to replace those missing autogen. The same that I have been doing all the time, sigh! At least I know what cause that.

 

[edphipps]

Tic, I would try creating an exclusion rectangle that just covers the dark rectangle and removing the rectangle you listed above.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Tic:

As you may already know, a G-Poly is a flat 3D scenery object which will exclude other 3D scenery objects within the 3D space of its Bounding Box, unless that G-Poly has a:

* <NoAutogenSuppression> attribute assigned via an AttachPoint on the MDL

...or:

* <NoAutogenSuppression> attribute as an Element in the BGLComp XML placement code.



BTW: Info on using NoAutogenSuppression vs. NoShadow XML Elements vs. a MDL "SuppressShadow" attribute:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/autogen-supression.433757/


FYI: A G-Poly placed with its 3D datum (Reference Point aka "RefPt") offset below local ground level as determined by its assigned Altitude AGL, will not exclude Autogen.


Autogen annotations on default land class textures (but not CVX vector meta-object Autogen such as Telephone Poles or Utility Towers along linear objects) can be excluded by a Exclusion Rectangle compiled via SDK BGLComp.

Custom Autogen annotations on custom photo-real imagery compiled via SDK Resample (technically a 'special type' of land class different than default land class) ...must be excluded via a CVX vector Polygon compiled via SDK SHP2VEC.


CAVEAT: It is important to distinguish between a Exclusion Rectangle and a Exclusion Polygon).


It is also important to distinguish between custom photo-real imagery compiled to- and placed by- SDK Resample ...versus a flat 3D scenery object mapped with a photo-real texture image that is compiled and placed by SCASM / BGLC or SDK BGLComp.


IIUC, the issue here is how to exclude "Default" versus "Custom" Autogen annotations on land class textures.

Default Autogen = BGLComp Exclusion Rectangle required

Custom Autogen = CVX vector Polygon required


NOTE: Be certain to only exclude the type of objects desired when creating a BGLComp Exclusion Rectangle

http://www.prepar3d.com/SDK/Environment Kit/BGL Compiler SDK/Compiling BGL.html#ExclusionRectangle


Hope this helps.

GaryGB

 

[jtanabodee]

Hi Tic:

As you may already know, a G-Poly is a flat 3D scenery object which will exclude other 3D scenery objects within the 3D space of its Bounding Box, unless that G-Poly has a:

* <NoAutogenSuppression> attribute assigned via an AttachPoint on the MDL

...or:

* <NoAutogenSuppression> attribute as an Element in the BGLComp XML placement code.



BTW: Info on using NoAutogenSuppression vs. NoShadow XML Elements vs. a MDL "SuppressShadow" attribute:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/autogen-supression.433757/


FYI: A G-Poly placed with its 3D datum (Reference Point aka "RefPt") offset below local ground level as determined by its assigned Altitude AGL, will not exclude Autogen.


Autogen annotations on default land class textures (but not CVX vector meta-object Autogen such as Telephone Poles or Utility Towers along linear objects) can be excluded by a Exclusion Rectangle compiled via SDK BGLComp.

Custom Autogen annotations on custom photo-real imagery compiled via SDK Resample (technically a 'special type' of land class different than default land class) ...must be excluded via a CVX vector Polygon compiled via SDK SHP2VEC.


CAVEAT: It is important to distinguish between a Exclusion Rectangle and a Exclusion Polygon).


It is also important to distinguish between custom photo-real imagery compiled to- and placed by- SDK Resample ...versus a flat 3D scenery object mapped with a photo-real texture image that is compiled and placed by SCASM / BGLC or SDK BGLComp.


IIUC, the issue here is how to exclude "Default" versus "Custom" Autogen annotations on land class textures.

Default Autogen = BGLComp Exclusion Rectangle required

Custom Autogen = CVX vector Polygon required


NOTE: Be certain to only exclude the type of objects desired when creating a BGLComp Exclusion Rectangle

http://www.prepar3d.com/SDK/Environment Kit/BGL Compiler SDK/Compiling BGL.html#ExclusionRectangle


Hope this helps.

GaryGB

I appreciate your detailed answer. But I think you haven't read my problem and understand it before you made the answer. My finding by removing all the bgl files back and fort for quite sometime are:
1. Custom made ground poly does a compression a bit, not really much as I know.
2. All the MDL file with <NoAutogenSuppression> in XML does the job, no compression at all.
3. The EXCLUSION RECTANGLE (not the CVX vector polygon) do compress autogen.

 

[jtanabodee]

I might not make myself clear enough or my English is the problem. Let the pictures tell the story. You can see the files on the right screen. Which file does the compression, you can truly understand that.
1. Only photoscenery in the folder Scenery of the airport. The default airport shows up. Autogens are fine.

2. When add all the Custom Made Ground poly, Autogens are fine too. Some houses are missing but very few.

3. When add the MDL file which compiled to BGL by <NoAutogenSuppression>, some compression happens.

4. When add the Airport files from ADE including vector file (road, cost lines, traffic), no compression further.

5. The last file that cause a lot compression is Exclusion file that is in OBJ file compiled from ADE.

That is how I know which file cause compression. Not GP as I thought.

 

[jtanabodee]

Anyway, I decided not to dig up more. I can make autogen myself and it looks prettier than the default. I can control the roof color better and the shape I want. It is time consuming but not much. I can live with that.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Tic:

Please be assured I did read your posted description of a problem with Autogen excluded by an Exclusion Rectangle, and I posted the info which I believe applied to- and explains how to resolve- the scenery issues cited in the OP above.


Autogen "excluded" by an Exclusion Rectangle would only be annotations of default land class textures.

Autogen "excluded" by a custom CVX vector Exclusion Polygon would only be annotations of custom photo-real imagery land class textures.


AFAIK, this meant that a Blend Mask for custom photo-real imagery land class textures seen where Autogen was being excluded by the BGLComp-compiled Exclusion Rectangle had been configured with sufficient transparency to allow the underlying Autogen annotations of default land class textures to 'show through to the top' of your custom scenery.

Some FS developers may find this to be useful to reduce workload and add-on package size by allowing default land class textures and associated Autogen annotations be displayed in surrounding areas distant from airports.

As you may already know, when this technique of allowing default land class textures and associated Autogen annotations be displayed on top of custom scenery in areas closer to airports and/or within the "boundary" / "background" of an airport, complications may occur when the scenery is rendered in FSX / P3D at run time, especially when an end user may also have other 3rd party versions of that same airport installed and set 'Active'.


I'm glad to see you have decided to utilize your own custom Autogen annotations on your own custom photo-real imagery land class textures at Phuket, as the new package is already looking like another fine addition to your collection of beautifully detailed scenery packages.


BTW: You may wish to use a very small Exclusion Rectangle for each airport object you wish to "exclude"; this is what ADE does to "exclude" certain default airport objects, when 'stock' airports are opened / decompiled / imported / and their BGLComp source code re-constituted from data stored in the proprietary *.AD4 project file during BGL compilation.

If a large Exclusion Rectangle is used to intercept all airport objects you wish to "exclude", complications may occur.


FYI: Although ADE version 1.65 was useful and well-vetted in addition to being the last version for which a PDF manual was made available, there may be further feature changes in a more recent ADE "production" version 1.7x that merit its use.


PS: Interested readers may wish to follow Tic's current fascinating work on Phuket ...in his other thread here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/new-phuket-airport.446052/#post-830059


GaryGB

 

[jtanabodee]

Thank you Garry, that is crystal clear sir.

 

[jtanabodee]

I have made my own custom autogen both trees and buildings by using default texture. I found that a lot of vegetation textures are in separated 256x256 pixels textures. OMG, I can imagine how many drawcall that would be when we fly though the jungle. I did a test flying and I found that the fps when I am in default autogen is lower than myself-made autogen since I have collected all the tree textures in one sheet and make custom trees from that default textures. So my trees are identical to the surrounding trees. The buildings are the same method. So, the fps is surprisingly good when flying in my autogen.

 

[jtanabodee]

One little nice thing I have got from making my own autogen is: I can have shadow from texture baking. Autogen Trees in FSX cannot have shadow.

 

[edphipps]

Looks really good Tic.

 

[jtanabodee]

Hi Tic:

Please be assured I did read your posted description of a problem with Autogen excluded by an Exclusion Rectangle, and I posted the info which I believe applied to- and explains how to resolve- the scenery issues cited in the OP above.


Autogen "excluded" by an Exclusion Rectangle would only be annotations of default land class textures.

Autogen "excluded" by a custom CVX vector Exclusion Polygon would only be annotations of custom photo-real imagery land class textures.


AFAIK, this meant that a Blend Mask for custom photo-real imagery land class textures seen where Autogen was being excluded by the BGLComp-compiled Exclusion Rectangle had been configured with sufficient transparency to allow the underlying Autogen annotations of default land class textures to 'show through to the top' of your custom scenery.

Some FS developers may find this to be useful to reduce workload and add-on package size by allowing default land class textures and associated Autogen annotations be displayed in surrounding areas distant from airports.

As you may already know, when this technique of allowing default land class textures and associated Autogen annotations be displayed on top of custom scenery in areas closer to airports and/or within the "boundary" / "background" of an airport, complications may occur when the scenery is rendered in FSX / P3D at run time, especially when an end user may also have other 3rd party versions of that same airport installed and set 'Active'.


I'm glad to see you have decided to utilize your own custom Autogen annotations on your own custom photo-real imagery land class textures at Phuket, as the new package is already looking like another fine addition to your collection of beautifully detailed scenery packages.


BTW: You may wish to use a very small Exclusion Rectangle for each airport object you wish to "exclude"; this is what ADE does to "exclude" certain default airport objects, when 'stock' airports are opened / decompiled / imported / and their BGLComp source code re-constituted from data stored in the proprietary *.AD4 project file during BGL compilation.

If a large Exclusion Rectangle is used to intercept all airport objects you wish to "exclude", complications may occur.


FYI: Although ADE version 1.65 was useful and well-vetted in addition to being the last version for which a PDF manual was made available, there may be further feature changes in a more recent ADE "production" version 1.7x that merit its use.


PS: Interested readers may wish to follow Tic's current fascinating work on Phuket ...in his other thread here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/new-phuket-airport.446052/#post-830059


GaryGB

Sorry to dig this up, Garry, Just quick question. Do you know what cause that shadow and how to fix that? Please reply in short answer. English is not my native language, reading long reply cause more confusing.

 

[GHD]

Please reply in short answer. English is not my native language, reading long reply cause more confusing.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Tic:

Are you referring to the "big black shadow" seen in the top screenshot you attached to this post above ?

I did a test and I found the XML line that cause a wide autogen suppression.
<ExclusionRectangle
latitudeMinimum="8.10333111289738"
latitudeMaximum="8.11531559947454"
longitudeMinimum="98.3009969488353"
longitudeMaximum="98.3341800054224"
excludeAllObjects="TRUE"/>
This exclusion rectangle is quite big and it cause autogen suppression a wide area. Unfortunately, I cannot just throw it out.

Picture below is without this line of exclusion. There is a big black shadow which I don't know what it is. There is no terminal buildings or something at all.

View attachment 51802

After this line of exclusion, the big black shadow disappear. All the autogen disappear too.

View attachment 51803

My conclusion is the exclusion rectangle cause autogen suppression. But I cannot do something about that since there is a "black thing" needs that line to be excluded.
So, I will do the models to replace those missing autogen. The same that I have been doing all the time, sigh! At least I know what cause that.

GaryGB

 

[jtanabodee]

Yes, exactly. Not the problem of autogen. The big black shadow problem.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Tic:

Your "big black shadow" appears to be aligned along the N-S, E-W 3D world axes, and thus suggests it 'may' be a G-Poly type object or 'forgotten' component intended for a G-Poly hidden from view in the GUI on a lower drawing layer within ADE.


ADE v165 FSX VTSP default aka 'stock' airport BGL shows no "imported" object to explain a "big black shadow":

Instant Scenery Labels displayed for FSX VTSP default aka 'stock' shows no object to explain that "shadow"

FYI: Your "exclude All" Exclusion Rectangle coordinate extents in SBuilderX v315 for FSX VTSP default aka 'stock':

BTW: If your scenery package installer does not set up multiple Area layers in end user FSX Scenery.Cfg- or Add-on XML config in P3D- to control load sequence for a "exclude all" Exclusion Rectangle, you may wish to try using alpha-numeric file naming ...so that custom G-Polys load after the Exclusion Rectangle.


As I explained in my post above here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/exclusion-cause-autogen-suppression.446084/post-830089

...IIUC, the "big black shadow" seen in the top screenshot you attached to the quoted post above most likely represents either a conflict in (2) G-Poly attributes assigned within the MDL files:

* NoAutogenSuppression

...and:

* NoShadow

...or perhaps a un-textured flat 3D G-Poly component that may- or may not- be part of a "finished" G-Poly.


Another possibility may be alpha or MDL transparency settings on a G-Poly that is allowing anomalous texture display of underlying layers. .


Of course, I cannot be certain about this, as I do not have your file set to inspect in FSX and/or P3Dv4.x


You should be able to manually arrange a stack order for all "drawing" layers in ADE to see all G-Polys etc..

Perhaps as well, Jon or Don may load your *.AD4 and airport *.BGL attached to a PM to troubleshoot this ?


I suggest trying to fully separate your G-Polys and/or a un-textured flat 3D G-Poly component that may- or may not- be part of a "finished" G-Poly from your airport "hybrid" BGL created by ADE, and if necessary, use MCX Ground Polygon Wizard instead of / in addition to- ADE -GP_Editor ...to create / place your G-Polys.


AFAIK, if necessary, you can de-compile the ADE airport "hybrid" BGL to extract your G-Polys and their placement code, then re-compile them after imported / processed / exported via MCX Ground Polygon Wizard, to achieve greater control of- and greater visible tracking of- the G-Poly creation and placement.


Sorry if this is too technical to follow in English, but troubleshooting this scenario is inherently complex even with files available to analyze.

GaryGB