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FSX and Ultimate Terrain Canada and US

Messages
229
Country
ca-ontario
A long time ago started using FSX to do boating rather than flying. I found at that point that FSX did not have proper water contour and I found UTX for Canada and US. I found it to be very close to real life in regards to contour for lakes rivers and channels. Its main problem however was water levels. I am talking about "water mountains" up to 150' and sometimes dips and hills than can dip down 50 to 100' and then right back up in a length of 1/4 mile, in a river that is suppose to be level.
I would kike to fix these sections using scenery design, but the couple of attempts and research I did did not yield much success.

I did in the past manage to design my own boat using G-max. Its not very fancy "paint" wise, but it is functional andserves my purpose.

What I have looked at, it seems I need to use "FSX-KML" but my attempt at this has yielded no success.
I can get the KML from Google earth, but inputing into the FSX-KML program does not seem to work. I am assuling that the KML file should be visible but I don't see anything.

I do have many other questions, but lets start with this one.

Is FSX-KML the proper ptogram to use to get my water levels to be flat?

Michel
 
Hi Michel:

Scenery Solutions' Allen Kreisman has fixed most water elevation issues in various UTX updates.

I recommend downloading / installing all such updates for UTX:




If your areas of concern are not fixed, IMHO it is easier to do this via another workflow.


Here is a general over-view of the task (which may eliminate re-drawing complex Polygons).


First, find the CVX vector BGL file(s) containing the Water Body Flatten Polygon(s) in:

[FSX install path]\Scenery\UtxCanWater ...sub-folder chain containing UTX BGLs.


Then extract the pertinent BGLs to a ESRI *.SHP file via Patrick Germain's CvxExtractor.


In SBuilderX:

1.) Append the *FLX*.SHP file(s) to SBuilderX.

2.) Display Google Satellite Imagery as the Background Map in SBuilderX workspace.

3.) Create a triangular CVX Exclude that overlaps an edge of the incorrect Water Polygon

4.) Delete all the original Appended *SHP CVX vector content

5.) Select the triangular CVX Exclude for the incorrect Water Polygon

6.) Compile a BGL


Again, in SBuilderX:

1.) Append that *.SHP file to SBuilderX.

2.) Select the incorrect Water Polygon and correctly reassign its elevation

3.) Right-click and Invert the selection

4.) Select / Delete all Appended *SHP CVX vector content except your Water Polygon

5.) Select your corrected Water Polygon

6.) Compile a BGL

GaryGB
 
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Gary GB

When I go to the link, I see only UTX version 2 for US. Have they combined US and Canada in Version 2?
I have check what I have and its Version 1.2 for UTX Canada and UTX US
I am getting the impression that I can't update what I have and that I will need to purchase Version 2. Am I correct?

Looking at the second link, there is a patch for FSX Acceleration patch. Is this all I need , or do I need to go to Version 2

As for the rest of it, about doing changes, here is what I get
I need the following programs: Cvx extractor
SBuilder X
BGL compiler (got this one)
Might need more help if I need to go this route

One step at the time

Michel
 
Gary
I downloaded the Cvx Extractor and the Sbuilder X .
Extractor works fine but after installing SBuilder, upon starting the program it tells me access to this folder is denied.
What could I be doing wrong?
 
Gary GB

When I go to the link, I see only UTX version 2 for US. Have they combined US and Canada in Version 2?
I have check what I have and its Version 1.2 for UTX Canada and UTX US
I am getting the impression that I can't update what I have and that I will need to purchase Version 2. Am I correct?

Looking at the second link, there is a patch for FSX Acceleration patch. Is this all I need , or do I need to go to Version 2

As for the rest of it, about doing changes, here is what I get
I need the following programs:

Cvx extractor
SBuilder X
BGL compiler (got this one)

Might need more help if I need to go this route

One step at the time

Michel

Here is the web site for UTX v1.x patches from the Internet Archive:

https://web.archive.org/web/20210613071546/https://www.scenerysolutions.com/download/utfsx


IIUC, if you have UTX Canada v1.2, then no additional patches are available, and only UTX Canada v2.x would be a more recent edition.


IIRC. the UTX FSX Accel. patch was not a fix for water elevations, but was instead adapted code / CVX vector scenery objects for FSX SP2.

GaryGB
 
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Gary
I downloaded the Cvx Extractor and the Sbuilder X .
Extractor works fine but after installing SBuilder, upon starting the program it tells me access to this folder is denied.
What could I be doing wrong?

Reportedly Windows has recently implemented a draconian security update to limit Ransomware activity etc..

This post links to some possible methods to deal with folders and their contained files becoming Read Only:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ontent-path-my-content-pat.451390/post-912145


If you:

* attach a saved flight *.FLT file

...or:

* post Geographic coordinates


...from an example location with UTX Canada water elevation anomalies, I'll see if I can help with a worked example fix..

GaryGB
 
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Gary.
Manage to fix my file access problem
I also got the UTX V2.0 and installed it. I know it instaled because the water elevation has changed from my run of the other day. But the anomalies are still there. Here is a pic from one of the location. you can see the coordinate on top.
Now that Sbuilder is working I arbitrarily picked one of UTCan Water .bgl file and extrated the .shp. Loaded it into the Sbuilder but I am kind of stuck at that point.
I picked at random as I don't how to identify which file is for what area.

Before I continue to "experiment" I just want to make sure that the original bgl file will not be replaced until I am ready, as long as I save any file that I do in a separate folder, correct?

Michel

1675885749448.jpeg
 
Before I continue to "experiment" I just want to make sure that the original bgl file will not be replaced until I am ready, as long as I save any file that I do in a separate folder, correct?

Michel

Hi again:

Yes, your original BGLs are not ever written to by CvxExtractor; they are only 'read' during file access.

The Exclude BGL will also not over-write in any way, your original BGL(s); it only tells FSX not to render the excluded object(s)


Regarding Altitudes of the water body for your example above in FSX:


FSX default shows 151 Meters / 488.8 Feet at the coordinates shown in your screenshot.

Google Earth uses a low-res SRTM data set, which shows 150 Meters / 492.1245 Feet.


If UTX-Canada v2.x shows 454.4 Feet at those coordinates, it may- or may not- be correct.

I would need to verify whether that is correct by looking at the Canada elevation data (either the 23 Meter DEM or Hi-Res LiDAR DTM).

UPDATE: The Canadian Digital Elevation Model (CDEM) data for project area 031L shows the Ottawa River is 150 Meters AMSL.


Do you also have a custom FSX 3rd party terrain mesh and/or CVX vector terrain (aside from UTX) ...add-on loaded for that area ? :scratchch


FSX default Terrain Mesh DEM file is: [FSX install path]\Scenery\0301\scenery\dem0301.bgl

FSX default CVX vector file is: [FSX install path]\Scenery\0301\scenery\CVX2715.bgl


UTX Canada is 'probably': [FSX install path]\Scenery\UtCanWater\Scenery\HP27150.bgl (...not sure, as I do not have UTXCan installed presently)

Let me know if your UTX Canada shows the above folder and file name; if not, please post the actual path your installation has.

GaryGB
 
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Gary
Slight misunderstanding. The coordinate on my screen showed my boat location with the mountains ahead.
Went to FSX this morning to locate the peaks of each mountain.
One is at N46d 15.33' x W78d 4.46' with an elevation of 612.4' (187m)
second at N46d 15.15' x W78d 4.46' with an elevation of 704.1' (215m)

As for the files, the dem0301.bgl, cvs2715.bgl are as per your location.
A for HP27150.bgl, it does not exist, but I found yesterday by extracting .bgl files UTCanWater, that the file that covers this area is HP12715C,bgl.
Also with cvx27150.bgl, I have OBX27150.bgl

It my understanding that when going in "scemery library" in FSX that files sere prioritized base on there location in the librairy. So since the UTCan Water is aboce the 0301, the files in UTCan overrides the files in 0301.

As for water elevation, Google Earth shows 493' (151m) and when bringing in the HP12715C.shp in Sbuilder, the polygon points are in the range of 136m to 149m in that area (if this means anything to you) (mostly 136 on north shore and south shore varies form 143 to 149)

Back in FSX, I checked elevation on south and north shore and they are 143m and 138m

One more thing. On a test file I did yesterday the "google satellite" background would show. But on another test file from this morning for this area, the google satellite background did not show up.

Why does Sbuilder not accept Google Earth as background?
 
As for HP27150.bgl, it does not exist; but I found yesterday by extracting .bgl files (in) UTCanWater, that the file that covers this area is HP12715C.bgl.

It my understanding that when going in "scenery library" in FSX that files were prioritized based on their location in the library. So since the UTCan Water is above the 0301, the files in UTCan override the files in 0301.

Indeed, UTCanWater HP12715C.bgl "should" override the underlying CVX vector files in lower lower display priority Area layers of Scenery Library GUI.

As for water elevation, Google Earth shows 493' (151m) and when bringing in the HP12715C.shp in SBuilderX, the polygon points are in the range of 136m to 149m in that area (if this means anything to you) (mostly 136 on north shore and south shore varies form 143 to 149)

Back in FSX, I checked elevation on south and north shore and they are 143m and 138m

This suggests local CVX water ("HP") Polygons derived via CVXExtractor and Appended into SBuilderX are "sloped" between shore Poly-Lines ("HL")'.

Water Polygons are supposed to be level on their most narrow axis perpendicular to the longest axis; they should "slope" only on the longest axis.

I will need to look at this again in FSX in order to see what is actually used, and compare this with what objects CVXExtractor is deriving *.SHP files for.

One more thing. On a test file I did yesterday the "google satellite" background would show. But on another test file from this morning for this area, the google satellite background did not show up.

Why does SBuilderX not accept Google Earth as background?

In SBuilderX Menu:

* View > Go To Position ...is used to center the workspace on desired Geographic coordinates:

* Be sure to fill out the SBuilderX File > Properties dialog

* Be sure to do a File > Save Project As

...so that SBuilderX knows where to download Tiles for a Map centered within the workspace

NOTE: One must allow SBuilderX' Google_Satellite_API tile down-loader adequate time to download zoom level LODs / create MIPMAP tile pyramids.

If, after doing the steps above, you still do not see the imagery background Map display in SBuilderX work-space, let me know.

GaryGB
 
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Gary
I have an altimeter in my boat gauges and yes, the water is slopping from side to side.
It seems that I can't get Google Satellite but only Google Street view to show.
In doing so, I notice something bizarre.
In this particular file (HP12715C) below the Rolphton Dam (N46 11' 7.3" x W77 41' 49.8") the KML extract loaded in Google Earth sows the profile of the river on north and south shore OK, but when I extract the SHP file and load it into SBuilder, the polygon only covers the "Quebec" side of the river (north shore).
 
Gary

I have an altimeter in my boat gauges and yes, the water is sloping from side to side.

It seems that I can't get Google Satellite but only Google Street view to show.

In doing so, I notice something bizarre.

In this particular file (HP12715C) below the Rolphton Dam (N46 11' 7.3" x W77 41' 49.8") the KML extract loaded in Google Earth sows the profile of the river on north and south shore OK, but when I extract the SHP file and load it into SBuilder, the polygon only covers the "Quebec" side of the river (north shore).

The UTX product line may subdivide the LOD-9 / QMID-11 quads into multiple smaller "layered" content groups, each with a suffix A, B, C, D etc.

I would likely have to inspect the local UTX Canada CVX vector BGL(s) in SDK TMFViewer to see what quad division scheme was used.


To see what UTXCan's content division scheme is, load multiple adjacent CVX BGLs into SDK TMFViewer; they can then be enabled / disabled individually.

Try this... :idea:

Run:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D SDK 1.4.4747.0\Environment Kit\Terrain SDK\tmfviewer.exe

Load:

[FSX install path]\Scenery\0301\scenery\dem0301.bgl

Configure:

FS SDK TMFViewer Menu > View > LOD Grid: "LOD-5"

...and:

- TMFViewer Menu > View > QMID Grid: "QMID-11"

Zoom in / out with NumPad <+> / <-> keys

Observe Dir# and File# on bottom Status Bar of TMFViewer to ID quads / files within the context of a graphically superimposed SDK default terrain grid.

Load various adjacent UTXCan CVX vector BGL files to see which ones containing Hydro Polygon / Hydro Poly-Lines local to the area of interest are to be used for deriving fixes.

GaryGB
 
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Gary
As I anticipated.
For the FXZ default dir#301 File 2715, the corresponding cvx file is cvx2715 and UT Can Water files are HL and HP 12715, and 12715 A to C
At first glance, there does not seem to be any difference between HP12715D and the lower right hand quadrant of HP12715
This would be a question for the UTX team as to why have the subdivision. And if changes are done on HP12715D, are they reflected on HP12715?

Further investigation reveals my answer about the area east of Rolphton mentioned previously.
HL12715 and HL12715C shows the same lines. But on HP12715C only half of the river has the polygones, but in HP12715 the whole river has polygones.
But something weird. HP12715D has the polygons for the south half of the river in that section
So the quarters are not pdrfect.

I am starting to understand the file structure although you did loose me with the LOD and the QMID.

Now can we get back on the subject of fusing my water elevations?

Just a side note on that subject. I have found that the elevations I get from Google Earth are not always correct
One location I have seen this, is were a lake flowing into a river has a lower altitude than the river.
The lake is Trout Lake at coordinate N46 18.5'+/- x W79 14' to W79 24', is at elevation 663', flows into the Mattawa River at point N45 18.370' x W79 14.009' which then shows an elevation of 670', 7' higher than the lake. I have seen many other discrepancies to numerous to list.
I believe the only way to get reliable elevations would be official topographical map, but I am a bit OCD on precision, so for this "hobby", the precision I would kike to see is not important. The real importance here is to get rid on these "water mountain" and huge hills and valleys that causes my boat to crash

Back to FSX, did you know that lake Huron has three different elevations? The south half up to N45d 00' is at 576' and a small section near Mackinac bridge is also at 576', while the north east corner above N45d (East of W82 30') is at 540' and the north west section is at 599' I suspect this would not be part of UTX?

I apologize for being so long winded. I think it's part of my OCD!!!!!

Michel
 
Gary:

As I anticipated...

For the FSX default dir#0301 File#2715, the corresponding cvx file is cvx2715 and UT Can Water files are HL and HP 12715, and 12715 A to C.

At first glance, there does not seem to be any difference between HP12715D and the lower right hand quadrant of HP12715

This would be a question for the UTX team as to why have the subdivision.

And if changes are done on HP12715D, are they reflected on HP12715?

Further investigation reveals my answer about the area east of Rolphton mentioned previously.

HL12715 and HL12715C shows the same lines.

But on HP12715C only half of the river has the polygons, but in HP12715 the whole river has polygons.

But something weird. HP12715D has the polygons for the south half of the river in that section; so the quarters are not perfect.

I am starting to understand the file structure although you did loose me with the LOD and the QMID.

These may merit mentioning in the support forum for UTXCan v2.x, as it is possible the author may still issue updates for FSX / P3Dv5.

FSX format CVX BGL data can be rendered in P3Dv5, so it is not impossible we 'may' see future corrections to reported anomalies.

https://www.simforums.com/forums/ultimate-terrain-and-xpresssim-support_forum19.html

Now can we get back on the subject of fusing (fixing ?) my water elevations?

Just a side note on that subject. I have found that the elevations I get from Google Earth are not always correct
One location I have seen this, is were a lake flowing into a river has a lower altitude than the river.
The lake is Trout Lake at coordinate N46 18.5'+/- x W79 14' to W79 24', is at elevation 663', flows into the Mattawa River at point N45 18.370' x W79 14.009' which then shows an elevation of 670', 7' higher than the lake.

I have seen many other discrepancies too numerous to list.

I believe the only way to get reliable elevations would be official topographical map, but I am a bit OCD on precision; so for this "hobby", the precision I would like to see is not important.

The real importance here is to get rid on these "water mountain" and huge hills and valleys that causes my boat to crash

It remains to be seen whether the best approach will be to make corrected copies of original UTXCan BGL files in identical format.

But if you intend to display all UTX content at max settings, you could consolidate all such CVX vector content into (1) local BGL.

That may- or may not- cause issues with the UTXCan configurator utility when CVX feature complexity / options are toggled / changed.

FSX performance is better if scenery content is inside BGLs of a LOD9 / QMID-11 'extent' size, but they can be up to LOD-5 / QMID-7 size.

Back to FSX, did you know that lake Huron has three different elevations? The south half up to N45d 00' is at 576' and a small section near Mackinac bridge is also at 576', while the north east corner above N45d (East of W82 30') is at 540' and the north west section is at 599'.

I suspect this would not be part of UTX?

I apologize for being so long winded. I think it's part of my OCD!!!!!

Michel

If you attach saved flight *.FLT files for the sites in question, we can see if this is unique to your installation, or an issue within UTXCan.

FYI: The saved flight *.FLT files can be copied into ZIP files ...from:

C:\Users\[user profile name]\Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\

GaryGB
 
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Gary
Here sis the compressed flight for my Lake Huron test .
Boat shout be just south of N45 degrees. Moving forward boat will start dropping from 573 down to 537. Afterwars turn to a west heading and boat will climb to 596' Afterwards, turn south nd boat will drop down back to 573.

Michel
 

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Gary
Here is the (ZIP) compressed (saved) flight for my Lake Huron test.
Boat should be just south of N45 degrees.
Moving forward boat will start dropping from 573 down to 537.
Afterward, turn to a west heading and boat will climb to 596'.
Afterwards, turn south and boat will drop down back to 573.

Michel

Hi Michel:

Indeed, there is a CVX vector water elevation (water flatten) anomaly in FSX' default BGL(s) in a curious mix of LOD-6 and LOD-9 quads.

But at FSX' default (4) quad junction you cited above:
* in DEM files, it is only a (1) Meter difference between adjacent water flatten polygon surfaces.
* in FSX at run time, there is a (22.5) Meter difference between adjacent water flatten polygon surfaces.

I am not yet certain what causes this, but I should not have any 3rd party add-ons impacting terrain within FSX LOD-5 Areas \0301 & \0302.

michel_fsx_lake-huron_water_elevation_anomaly_fs-1-jpg.86428



P3Dv5 SDK TMFViewer display of the following BGLs:

[FSX install path]\Scenery\0301\scenery\dem0301.bgl
[FSX install path]\Scenery\0301\scenery\CVX2515.bgl
[FSX install path]\Scenery\0301\scenery\CVX2615.bgl

[FSX install path]\Scenery\0302\scenery\dem0302.bgl
[FSX install path]\Scenery\0302\scenery\CVX2516.bgl
[FSX install path]\Scenery\0302\scenery\CVX2616.bgl

michel_fsx_lake-huron_water_elevation_anomaly_tmfviewer-1-jpg.86429



P3Dv5 SDK TMFViewer display of the same BGLs, with LOD-6 terrain grid enabled:

michel_fsx_lake-huron_water_elevation_anomaly_tmfviewer-3-jpg.86474


Do you also have a custom FSX 3rd party terrain mesh and/or CVX vector terrain (aside from UTX) ...add-on loaded for that area ? :scratchch

I must ask for a reply to my question above (still unanswered, thus far) ...if you have any 3rd party add-ons that impact terrain, for example:

Terrain mesh such as:

* Pilot's FS Global:

https://www.pilots.shop/Cms/Ui/Pages/Products/MainPage.aspx?id=ec92ce44-1876-436b-9b16-69793d58be97


* FSGenesis / Toposim:

https://secure.simmarket.com/toposim-north-america-canada-continent-bundle.phtml

...or other misc. freeware terrain meshes etc.


CVX vector water elevation / water flatten products:

* OrbX Global Vector:

https://orbxdirect.com/product/global-vector


* Taburet FSX VECTOR CANADA & ALASKA:


...or other CVX vector products etc.


Again, your findings in UTXCan merits a report in the Scenery Solutions support forum.

https://www.simforums.com/forums/ultimate-terrain-and-xpresssim-support_forum19.html


I do not have UTXCan installed, so you need to ID pertinent local UTXCan CVX vector BGLs and decide what / how you want to fix this.


I recommend first trying the excellent quality FreeMesh X 30 Meter resolution terrain mesh to see if it fixes Canadian water elevations.

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/516319-freemeshx-global-20-release-announcement/


Once you have decided the method you wish to use to fix this, consider the workflow options I cited above in this thread:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/fsx-and-ultimate-terrain-canada-and-us.456742/post-912250

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/fsx-and-ultimate-terrain-canada-and-us.456742/post-912368


As I see it, you can:

* Exclude (only) the water polygons in local UTXCan CVX vector BGL files which have incorrect elevations

* Replace (only) those local UTXCan CVX vector BGL files with edited CVX vector BGLs derived from them via CvxExtractor and SBuilderX


You must decide based on tests, if you wish to retain the UTXCan file structure so it works properly with UTXCan 'Configurator' utility.

GaryGB
 

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Gary
As for other third party , I have OrbX but I would need to go back and check. I am pretty sure it was only for the west coast around Vancouver. At the time I was still flying and I like the airport renditions in OrbX.
You have given me a lot of info to digest here.
I will report the anomaly in Lake Huron on the forum link above.
As for fixing elevation in the area of concern, I believe I would prefer to fix and replace the UTX files.
Now that I have the cvr extractor and the Sbuilder program up and runing I will experiment and probably have more question for you in this.

Michel
 
Gary

Sorry for the rime lapse from last posting. I have been a bit busy with work and family matters

Going back to your first reply and the procedure to fix my “water mountains” your procedure does seem to be written for someone who has done scenery before. From all the stuff we have communicated since, here is what I understand that I need to do. With a few more details the way I see it
First I have identified the UTCan file (HP12715C), and extracted the ESIR .SHP file.
Then in SBuilderX, I append this .shp file to view the polygon files of the water polygons. At this point, I can only display “Google Street Map”, but I don’t believe I really need to.
Starting from point #3 is where I am getting lost with the technical language. The phrase “CVX Exclude” needs to be clarified. By this, do you mean to create a polygon around the area I need to fix making sure that it crossed one of the boundaries of the existing polygon then choosing this new polygon hit “exclude”?
Are points 4 to 6 the steps to save this revised file before going on to the next sequence of steps?
If so, is step number 4 a matter of going “Edit/Delete”?
That second set of step would need to be elaborated also.
When this process is all done will I end up with only one revised file or 2 files?

More question to follow as I progress with these fist steps.

Michel
 
Gary
Here is another though.
Can water elevation be change by changing the altitudes of polygon points?
Just went into my problem area in SBuilderX and found a surprising fact.
One of the polygon point situated in the problem area has an altitude of 234.965...m (767')
While the balance hovers around the 136 m (446')

Michel
 
Hi Michel:

Indeed, due to a lack of available free time and a preponderance of real life priorities, some of my replies may by necessity be written in a way that assumes a greater familiarity with terminology and procedures for FS scenery content creation.

I believe that if you search FS Developer forums, you will see that until the last year or so, most of my replies went to great lengths (literally) to explain things as if the end user had less extensive familiarity with terminology and procedures for FS scenery content creation.

But at the present time, due to a lack of available free time and a preponderance of real life priorities, I have limitations on my capacity to allocate time to creating detailed tutorials I otherwise prefer to provide.

This leaves the inquirer with the challenge of doing some- or in some cases, all- the same time-consuming study of forums and conducting of searches via Google and other search engines that many of us here have already done ...to learn terminology and procedures required to troubleshoot and enhance FS scenery.

That process is not one I would wish on anyone, as it requires a huge investment of time and energy; but it is a requirement in order to do what you propose to do with CVX vector content modification.

Normally, being aware of how complex such endeavors can be, I would do the 'humane' thing, and just recommend purchase of UTX or an equivalent (but I'm not so sure there actually is an 'equivalent').

But in this case, you already bought UTXCan (2) times, and are still left with an area fraught with anomalies. :banghead:

So, I do understand that you may currently have no other option but to fix the problematic area yourself.

I may be able to cobble together links to explanations I previously offered for others on how to perform various aspects of the work-flow required to fix this type of anomalous area; but I am not sure how soon I can do so.

I may not be able to provide an individualized step-by-step tutorial (like I have for others in the past), due to the fact that I do not presently have the UTXCan package, and thus do not know what the file / content subdivision structure actually is in its various BGLs.

Please be assured that my intent would normally be to provide you with an individualized step-by-step troubleshooting tutorial; but without the UTXCan package installed, I would not be able to do so.

If I get some time free later today, I will see if I can post some links that might help explain the process.

GaryGB
 
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