FSX and Ultimate Terrain Canada and US

[GaryGB]

Gary

Since I don’t see it in the FSX cvx2615.bgl file, it must under some other “general” terrain file.
See pic below
View attachment 86732

So I believe my best choice will be to do my own CVX file for the missing section to change the elevation of the existing water.

Please list the actual file names and paths for the UTXCan CVX files in question, as well as CVX BGLs for that 'x2615' area in FSX.

Just as a reminder, once all these files are loaded in SDK TMFViewer, you can read their names from the View pull-down menu

FYI: This suggests that you may have another vector add-on installed that impacts Hydro content in that X2615 CVX vector Area

Just have couple of question nagging me. Not that important but I would like to understand what is happening.
When creating the “exclusion .BGL” file, I see 5 files created in the shape directory under SBuilderX:
one cvx, and 4 EXX… files. Then when creating the new terrain file for that exclusion, the 4 EXX… files are replaced by 4 HPX…. files.

Does the “exclusion" information now become part of the new cvx file?

Although ACES stated that ALL CVX vector object types can be combined into the same BGL, it is more practical to separate Excludes from other object types into a different BGL.

Also, some programmers find it preferable to separate output of polylines from polygons when working with *.SHP files that are to be compiled via SDK SHP2VEC.

After the creation of this final cvx file, I was assuming yesterday that I needed to transfer this file to the UTCanWater /sceneries file. I gather that is something that should be common knowledge that did not need to be mentioned.

SBuilderX temporarily writes *.SHP files into a [SBuilderX install path]\Shapes sub-folder; they are deleted after a BGL is compiled.

Copy any such *.SHP source files you wish to keep out of that folder and store them in a folder elsewhere ...BEFORE compiling any other BGL, or you may lose such *.SHP files.

IIUC, you had already compiled a BGL for the CVX vector excludes before compiling the CVX vector Hydro Polygons.

Something else that I am pretty sure about is that when I change the elevation of the water polygons, that the terrain beside it gets “stretched” up or down to join with the new water elevation. How for does this stretching occur? Is there a particular “slope” that regulates how far the affect goes?

I will also be experimenting with “steep” water slope which is something that happens at waterfalls and dams. Maybe I can go check the Niagara Falls to see how they look in FSX then (compare it with ?) the HP file in UTX

Assuming FSX is using a higher resolution terrain mesh BGL or TMVL setting in FSX.Cfg, "water creep" along shorelines is solved via precise placement of CVX water flatten polygon edges in alignment with shorelines.

Although there is a 'slope' system for Hydro poly lines and polygons, I do not use it; I "step" water up/down in 1 Foot intervals via adjacent polygons.

GaryGB

 

[MEPaquette]

Gary

Please list the actual file names and paths for the UTXCan CVX files in question

Path and file names I have looked at in TMF Viewer for the area are as follows:
C/…/MFSX/Scenery/301/scenery/cvx2615.bgl for default FSX
C/…/MFSX/Scenery/UTCanWater/scenery/HP12615D For UTX file
C/…/MFSX/Scenery/301/scenery/OBX2615.bgl, which I suspect would also cover that area, but I cant open in Viewwer and I cant use the CVR Extractor,
I have also checked under
C/…/MFSX/Scenery/UTCanGP/scenery/xxx which contains may files ending with 2615 and 2615X with no success, then C/…/MFSX/Scenery/UTCanStream/scenery/ST12615.bgl.. I have also chexked under C/…/MFSX/Scenery/World
No luch in any of them. Can’t find any water between Trout lake and Talon

Copy any such *.SHP source files you wish to keep out of that folder and store them in a folder elsewhere ...BEFORE compiling any other BGL

So when I am creating the “Exclude” cvx file, should I be moving that file to my UTCanWater/scenery folder before doing my Hydror polygon cvx file?

"Water creep" along shorelines is solved via precise placement of CVX water flatten polygon edges in alignment with shorelines.

I was not taking about the “water creep” I am taking about the “terrain creep” beside the water polygon

Beow is a sketch of what I mean. The white line indicates original profile across the river parralled to the Rolphtn dam near Deep River, ON. The red line is my adjusted polygon elevation.

This next profile which runs perpendicular to the dam shows what happens whe I trie to get a “steep drop” beteen the eater polygon above the dam and beloe the dam

Even though the upper water polygon is at 136 m and the lower water polygon is at 120 m, the lower water polygon gets stretched up to the terrain section which gets pulled up to the upper water polygon level.



II believe I would need to create a “cliff” in the terrain to achieve what I am looking for, but I am not sure this would do it, as the effect of raising a water polygon seems to have a far reach into the terrain mesh. And I tend to think that the section of dam is too narrow to be able to put a cliff in there.

I have research “cliff” in forrum and came up with a post from JohnC in 2009. He was trying to get rid of a cliff beside the airport (post name SBuilderX Mesh Change). I read thru it and most of it went over my head.

Michel

 

[GaryGB]

Gary

Path and file names I have looked at in TMF Viewer for the area are as follows:
C:\…\MFSX\Scenery\0301\scenery\cvx2615.bgl for default FSX
C:\…\MFSX\Scenery\UTCanWater\scenery\HP12615D For UTX file

I have also checked under:
C:\…\MFSX\Scenery\UTCanGP\scenery\xxx which contains many files ending with 2615 and 2615X with no success

...then C:\…\MFSX\Scenery\UTCanStream\scenery\ST12615.bgl.

I have also checked under C:\…\MFSX\Scenery\World

No luck in any of them. Can’t find any water between Trout lake and Talon

Your screen shot showing Hydro polys between Trout and Talon lakes proves there is CVX data for the 'water' somewhere.

Do you have any payware local CVX add-ons described above, or any local payware or freeware add-on airports ?

C:\…\MFSX\Scenery\0301\scenery\OBX2615.bgl, which I suspect would also cover that area, but I cant open in TMViewer and I (also) cant use (it with) the CvxExtractor.

OBX2615.bgl contains 3D scenery library objects with placement code, and no CVX objects

So when I am creating the “Exclude” cvx file, should I be moving that file to my UTCanWater\scenery folder before doing my Hydro polygon cvx file?

Yes and No.

Yes: Move *.SHP source files you wish to keep out of that SBuilderX\Tools\Shapes sub-folder immediately after compiling a BGL.

No: Do not add miscellaneous source files to a \Scenery sub-folder; put them in a separate project folder elsewhere

CAVEAT: In FSX Scenery Library GUI stack of Area layers:

* Exclude BGLs must be placed in a \Scenery sub-folder linked to a Area layer.

* That Exclude Area layer is must be positioned in the layer stack above scenery intended to be excluded

I was not taking about the “water creep” I am taking about the “terrain creep” beside the water polygon

Below is a sketch of what I mean. The white line indicates original profile across the river parallel to the Rolphton dam near Deep River, ON. The red line is my adjusted polygon elevation.

View attachment 86747


This next profile which runs perpendicular to the dam shows what happens when I try to get a “steep drop” between the eater polygon above the dam and below the dam

View attachment 86748

Even though the upper water polygon is at 136 m and the lower water polygon is at 120 m, the lower water polygon gets stretched up to the terrain section which gets pulled up to the upper water polygon level.

I believe I would need to create a “cliff” in the terrain to achieve what I am looking for, but I am not sure this would do it, as the effect of raising a water polygon seems to have a far reach into the terrain mesh. And I tend to think that the section of dam is too narrow to be able to put a cliff in there.

I have research “cliff” in forum and came up with a post from JohnC1 in 2009.

SBUILDER X Mesh changes

Can someone describe how SBUILDER X gets its inputs to change the mesh? I read somewhere that one can smooth out the sharp edge airport flattens , etc. I can (and have ) done similar stuff with grises50. Does sbuilder make a series of nested polygons around the flatten that will all run in one...

www.fsdeveloper.com

He was trying to get rid of a cliff beside the airport (post name SBuilderX Mesh Change).
I read thru it and most of it went over my head.

Michel

IIUC, you refer to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapides-des-Joachims

Des Joachims Generating Station - Hydroelectric power plant
Swisha Rd
Rolphton, ON K0J 2H0
Canada

...at these Geographic coordinates: 46.182181,-77.696922


Please attach high resolution images of the (2) graphics in your post above, so I may see them better.

There 'may' be a way to implement this via a 3D 'Platform' superimposed over CVX Hydro Polygons.

However, with FSX water polygons used for CVX objects that have assigned surface Altitudes, there is no true "depth" in such objects that impacts the bottom of user A/C or other SimObjects such as boats ...navigating "inside" the domain of that type of water object.

An exception is when a Hydro attribute is applied to terrain without an underlying 'water flatten' by use of incorrect source data that does not contain Altitude values along with Latitude and Longitude values for each vertex point that defines such water objects.

When we wish to make water objects at Altitudes that more closely correlate with the underlying terrain, we must first implement a Terrain shape that more closely approximates that of the local ground IRL by creating- or modifying- a more detailed local terrain mesh.

This requires a smaller interval between elevation vertex points in either the local terrain mesh BGL, or in the FSX.Cfg system-wide settings for TerrainMaxVertexLevel (aka "TMVL").

PS: The FSX default Terrain mesh for Canada is LOD-10 / 38.2 Meters between elevation data points (aka "1-Arc Second").

https://www.esri.com/news/arcuser/0400/wdside.html


Have you installed this yet ?

This is ~30-Meters between elevation data points

Canada CDEM source data is 23-Meters; it 'can' be over-sampled and output at 19.1-Meters between elevation data points

I recommend first trying the excellent quality FreeMesh X 30 Meter resolution terrain mesh to see if it fixes Canadian water elevations.

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/516319-freemeshx-global-20-release-announcement/

UPDATE: FYI, the new Canada Hi-Res LiDAR 1-Meter elevation data covers the area under discussion:

https://search.open.canada.ca/openmap/957782bf-847c-4644-a757-e383c0057995

BTW: CanVec data is also available:

https://open.canada.ca/data/en/dataset/8ba2aa2a-7bb9-4448-b4d7-f164409fe056

https://open.canada.ca/data/en/dataset/9d96e8c9-22fe-4ad2-b5e8-94a6991b744b

GaryGB

 

[MEPaquette]

Gary
PDF file of profiles

Yes it is the Rapid des Joashin l I am working with

Looking at the scenery library in FSX I am wandering if it;s in the Default Terain way at the bottom of the list?

 

[GaryGB]

Your screen shot showing Hydro polys between Trout and Talon lakes proves there is CVX data for the 'water' somewhere.

Do you have any payware local CVX add-ons described above, or any local payware or freeware add-on airports ?

Your answer to the above questions may save us both a lot of our respective time and effort.

GaryGB

 

[MEPaquette]

Gary
This morning I went to my scenery library in FSX and turned off all scenery folders (other than most base Maps execpt 0301).
At that point no rivers between Trout Lake and Talon Lake.
Turned on base map 301, still no rivers.
Turned on UTCanWater and rivers are there.
Then as a double check, turned all scenery files back on and turned off UTCanWater. Rivers not there.
To me this proves that those rivers are somewhere in UTCanWater, just not in the right file.
I am in the process of opening up all HP files in UTCanWater starting from my HP12615D and going around expanding outwards from that point.

I will go back and check those other links you gave me for Topo map later.

One more thing

Yes: Move *.SHP source files you wish to keep out of that SBuilderX\Tools\Shapes sub-folder immediately after compiling a BGL.

From this I get that in the FSX/Sceanery folder, I should create my own subfolders. One for the exclude cvx,bgl file and one for my new cvx.blg files
Then in the scenery library make sure that my new folders are above the UTX folders
Do I have that correct?

Michel

 

[GaryGB]

Gary
This morning I went to my scenery library in FSX and turned off all scenery folders (other than most base Maps except 0301).
At that point no rivers between Trout Lake and Talon Lake.
Turned on base map 301, still no rivers.
Turned on UTCanWater and rivers are there.
Then as a double check, turned all scenery files back on and turned off UTCanWater. Rivers not there.
To me this proves that those rivers are somewhere in UTCanWater, just not in the right file.
I am in the process of opening up all HP files in UTCanWater starting from my HP12615D and going around expanding outwards from that point.

I will go back and check those other links you gave me for Topo map later.

That is good troubleshooting through a process of elimination.

Indeed, by sweeping the cursor over TMFViewer's workspace, you will see adjacent File# info on the status bar at the bottom of the window.

Hopefully the mystery file will be named in keeping with the FSX Area / File# scheme

That will tell you what to load, and may save having to load a lot of Geographically unrelated BGLs.


It is best to keep all custom end user content out of FSX' / UTX' own default \Scenery sub-folders.

If you already have added some custom scenery BGLs or Excludes to FSX' / UTX' own default \Scenery sub-folders, it is best to move them to a separate folder chain.

I suggest instead to add a new top folder and nested \Scenery sub-folder chain such as:

[FSX install path]\Addon Scenery\MEP_UTXCan_Fix\Scenery

Put the Exclude BGL and any / all UTXCan "fix" CVX vector BGLs into that same \Scenery sub-folder.

In FSX Scenery Library GUI, be sure to:

* 'Add Area', and link to your new MEP_UTXCan_Fix top folder path

* Keep your new custom Area at / near the top position in the stack of layers, and always above UTX.

One more thing

Yes: Move *.SHP source files you wish to keep out of that SBuilderX\Tools\Shapes sub-folder immediately after compiling a BGL.

From this I get that in the FSX/Scenery folder, I should create my own sub-folders. One for the exclude cvx,bgl file and one for my new cvx.bgl files
Then in the scenery library make sure that my new folders are above the UTX folders
Do I have that correct?

Michel

Again, Yes and No.

Yes: You should create your own sub-folders, and in the scenery library make sure that your new folders are above the UTX folders.

No: You do not need to separate a exclude CVX*.bgl from your new water CVX*.bgl files; (1) folder is OK.

GaryGB

 

[MEPaquette]

Gary
I found my file.
UTX has 3 files covering the same area. HP12615D, HP22615D and HP32615D
HP12615D is for the larger body of water, then HP22615D is for the smaller rivers, which is were I found what I was looking for and HP32615D is for all the very small lakes

Understood on the files
Thank you

Michel

 

[GaryGB]

Congratulations.

That is good info to know, as I had not previously studied UTX-USA closely enough to realize that the 1st numeral in the local CVX file series name could be 1, 2, or 3.

But it makes sense, as UTX provides high control granularity for run time detail via its 'configurator' utility.

GaryGB

 

[MEPaquette]

Gary
A couple of things to report.
I set up my new folder as such: C..../FSX/Scenery/MEP/scenery.
I have managed to add my scenery folder in the scenery library, but I just can't seem to get my description to sow in the library list. All I get is a blank were the description should be.
Next, I worked on the section between Trout Lake and Talon lake and had a couple of locations were the new level would not come down and would creep up to the terrain. Went searching for this creep effect and found a recent post were you suggested playing with the settings in MSFS. So went into mt scenery settings and maxed out all the water and terrain settings. Problem solved. Not only that, I went to my Johashin dam and I now have a cliff between the top water level and the bottom water level. And in my trout lke channle, were I put a meter drop on connecting water bodies, it does do a very short transition down.

LOVE IT

One lase thing. Is shore line handle with the HLxxxx files? I want to add a channel between some of the lakes that presently only have a "stream" between them smf it does not render it too well.

Michel

 

[MEPaquette]

Gary
Have my shorelines. just need to experiment with the different shore lines.
I was hoping to just "trim" existing, but no go. Found out that I need to exclude full existing lines and re-do.

 

[GaryGB]

Gary
A couple of things to report.

I set up my new folder as such: C..../FSX/Scenery/MEP/scenery.

I have managed to add my scenery folder in the scenery library, but I just can't seem to get my description to show in the library list. All I get is a blank where the description should be.

I recommend that you try this:


In Windows Explorer / File Manager, browse to:

[FSX install path]\Addon Scenery\ sub-folder

NOTE: This is not to be confused with [FSX install path]\Addon Scenery\Scenery sub-folder):

Right-click > New > Folder > type in: MEP > [OK] button


In [FSX install path]\Addon Scenery\MEP subfolder:

Right-click > New > Folder > type in: Scenery > [OK] button

Right-click > New > Folder > type in: Texture > [OK] button


From the folder where you placed any/all BGLs for MEP, drag-and-drop all those BGLs into:

[FSX install path]\Addon Scenery\MEP\Scenery sub-folder


From the folder where you placed any/all textures for MEP, drag-and-drop all those textures into:

[FSX install path]\Addon Scenery\MEP\Texture sub-folder


In FSX GUI Menu > Scenery Library > Add Area > Browse to:

[FSX install path]\Addon Scenery\MEP\ sub-folder


Left-click once in the 'white' area near the \Scenery and \Texture sub-folders

Left-click once on the [OK] button

Left-click once again in the 'white' area near the \Scenery and \Texture sub-folders

NOTE: Scenery Library should now be closed and allowed to re-index

When finished re-indexing the MEP Area name should appear in the layer position for MEP

Next, I worked on the section between Trout Lake and Talon lake and had a couple of locations where the new level would not come down and would creep up to the terrain. Went searching for this creep effect and found a recent post were you suggested playing with the (TMVL) settings in MSFS FSX.Cfg. So went into my FSX (GUI Menu ?) scenery (slider ?) settings and maxed out all the water and terrain settings. Problem solved. Not only that, I went to my Des Joachims dam and I now have a cliff between the top water level and the bottom water level. And in my trout lake channel, were I put a meter drop on connecting water bodies, it does do a very short transition down.

LOVE IT

One last thing. Is shore lines handled with the HLxxxx files? I want to add a channel between some of the lakes that presently only have a "stream" between them and it does not render it too well.

Michel

Yes, CVX vector shore lines are created via the HLxxxx files.

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Gary
Have my shorelines. just need to experiment with the different shore lines.
I was hoping to just "trim" existing, but no go. Found out that I need to exclude full existing lines and re-do.

By default, all CVX vector objects "clip" at LOD-9 / QMID-11 quad borders, except HWY Traffic, which 'clips' at LOD-13 / QMID-15 quad borders.

If you intersect or overlap a CVX object with a small triangle of the proper CVX vector exclude type, only the part of a target CVX vector object within the local LOD-9 / QMID-11 quad grid extent will be excluded.

So in SBuilderX, append UTXCan-derived HLXHLxxxxx.SHP file(s), and you can edit them ...guided by displaying LOD / QMID grids.

You can also just use the shore lines, and make new Hydro Polys out of the "Stream" Poly-lines, export them, then Append them into the HPXHPxxxxx.SHP project data.

In SBuilderX, use Convert To Poly to make a Polygon from a Polyline of an assigned width ...as discussed here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...n-mount-st-helens-pre-1980.445076/post-819427

GaryGB

 

[MEPaquette]

Gary
On the scenery library issue I did attempt your procedure by adding my MEP folder under the Addon Scenery/subfolder, but it did not work, but now I know shy
I was missing on this one step

Left-click once in the 'white' area near the \Scenery and \Texture sub-folders

Left-click once on the [OK] button

Left-click once again in the 'white' area near the \Scenery and \Texture sub-folders

Now I got it.
BTW, since I am using all of FSX existing texture, I don't need the Texture sub folder at this time correct?
I will only need it if I develop my own textures in the future?

Also, is it a must that I put my directory under the FSX/ Addon Scenery/ subfolder rather than the FSX/Scenery/subfolder, or this is just "good practice" to make it easier to locate in the future?

On the issue for the streams, the cvx file are only single lines, they are not polygons. Am i to assume that I should create an exclude files for these "stream lines" prior to producing water polygons to replace them?

 

[GaryGB]

Gary
On the scenery library issue I did attempt your procedure by adding my MEP folder under the Addon Scenery\subfolder, but it did not work, but now I know why.
I was missing on this one step.

Now I got it.
BTW, since I am using all of FSX existing texture, I don't need the Texture sub folder at this time correct?
I will only need it if I develop my own textures in the future?

Correct and correct.

Also, is it a must that I put my directory under the FSX/ Addon Scenery\ subfolder rather than the FSX\Scenery subfolder, or this is just "good practice" to make it easier to locate in the future?

The [FSX_install_path]\Scenery sub-folder chain is scanned repeatedly during startup.

AFAIK, you 'may' further impact run time performance by adding content to that folder chain.

While it is true that the internal link path for the new \MEP Area layer allows positioning at/near the top of stack of layers above UTXCan in the Scenery Library GUI stack of layers, I believe the Addon Scenery folder chain location may prove more efficient with the FSX scenery content indexing and loading sub-system.

But considering the vast quantity of files added by UTX and other addons to the FSX \Scenery folder chain, it may be that FSX can handle it OK.

On the issue for the streams, the cvx file are only single lines, they are not polygons. Am i to assume that I should create an exclude files for these "stream lines" prior to producing water polygons to replace them?

Yes

GaryGB

 

[MEPaquette]

Gary
I went back to check your links on those topographical maps'
The one you say had 1 m elevation elevation data, I can view the map that shows all of the index numbers, but I can't view the actual map section to see these elevation lines.
Do I need a special viewer for this? There are a lot of different type of files that can be downloaded, but none of those appears to be the actual map of the region in question.
As for the Open Ma[ Canada, they are fine but I can't print the maps.
My brother in law told me Ontario had Open Map also. When I go to that site, I can print areas of the map with a scale of 1:64.

Ontario Map Viewer

www.lioapplications.lrc.gov.on.ca

But these are also 10 m elevation intervals and they are really really light and hard to read and follow with my less than perfect eyesight

BTW, thank you for your patience and all the help you have provided, Once I have access to good printable maps with tight contour lines, I will be in a position to start working on my own version of the "Geargian Bay Ship Canal" that was surveyed in 1909 and was dropped as the railroads were coming into the picture.

Michel

 

[GaryGB]

Gary
I went back to check your links on those topographical maps.
The one you say had 1 m elevation elevation data, I can view the map that shows all of the index numbers, but I can't view the actual map section to see these elevation lines.

Do I need a special viewer for this?

The Canada Geographic Information System (aka "GIS") resources I linked to above is:

* Terrain "Altitude" in a GIS Digital Elevation Model (aka "DEM") or color Raster file format of gridded elevation data points

* Vector *.SHP files of Hydrographic Features with Bathymetry info

One would normally view and process this data in a GIS application such as Global Mapper (payware) or QGIS (freeware).

Elevation "Contour" lines would normally need to be derived from the Terrain Elevation data, and exported as GPS data

DEM / DTM data would be used for terrain mesh BGLs compiled via SDK Resample

*.SHP vector files can be Appended to SBuilderX for CVX objects compiled to BGLs via SDK SHP2VEC.

There are a lot of different type of files that can be downloaded, but none of those appears to be the actual map of the region in question.

As for the Open Map Canada, they are fine but I can't print the maps.
My brother in law told me Ontario had Open Map also. When I go to that site, I can print areas of the map with a scale of 1:64.

Ontario Map Viewer

www.lioapplications.lrc.gov.on.ca

But these are also 10 m elevation intervals and they are really really light and hard to read and follow with my less than perfect eyesight

BTW, thank you for your patience and all the help you have provided, Once I have access to good printable maps with tight contour lines, I will be in a position to start working on my own version of the "Georgian Bay Ship Canal" that was surveyed in 1909 and was dropped as the railroads were coming into the picture.

Michel

I am not sure if you are looking for maps to use as a visual background in SBuilderX, or actual source data to make CVX vectors.

The CanVec is the actual source data to make CVX vector objects like water bodies and their shorelines (...no tracing needed).

As to display of contour lines in FSX on the surface of water class textures, I am not aware of a way to do that.

IIUC, you would instead make terrain mesh and CVX files intended to be displayed on a aircraft / SimObject GPS gauge screen.

GaryGB

 

[MEPaquette]

Gary
What I am looking for is topographical map that will give me what the "top of water elevation" is for the lakes and rivers.
I remember looking at original MNR topographical maps back in the 80's and they gave this elevation based on the "normal" water levels in certail spots along the lakes and rivers
I had a couple of those for the French River area that I had to get when we learned how to do 3D viewing of photos using those special glassed (can't remember the name off hand). I just need to go find them in my old school stuff.
Other than that, it would be a guide to approximate the size of a lake if a dam would be added as they do when either hydro wants to install a generating station or what other organization might do to raise the level of a lake to provide sufficient water reserve for adding locks in a river.
As for actual "water depth" I have ny "Navionic app" on my phone that gives me that

This is linked to my FSX GPS and I see my boat location in real time on the app.
This is also how I know if the lakes and rivers on FSX are in the right place and right configuration,

I have not seen anything on the web that can compete with those good old fashion paper prints of those MNR topographical maps.

Michel

PS: Ended up luckier than I thought. On the Ontario Open Map, if I zoom right down to the last zoom before map disappeares, I can find top of water elevations.
Lake Nipissing is at 196 m and Tout Lake is at 202 m.
Even thou I have found some discrepancies like the Ottawa river from Mattawa to the Joashin dam goes up and down between 154 m and 151 m, Its still better than no information at all.

 

[GaryGB]

Gary
What I am looking for is topographical maps that will give me what the "top of water elevation" is for the lakes and rivers.
I remember looking at original MNR topographical maps back in the 80's and they gave this elevation based on the "normal" water levels in certain spots along the lakes and rivers.

I had a couple of those for the French River area that I had to get when we learned how to do 3D viewing of photos using those special glassed (can't remember the name off hand). I just need to go find them in my old school stuff.
Other than that, it would be a guide to approximate the size of a lake if a dam would be added as they do when either hydro wants to install a generating station or what other organizations might do to raise the level of a lake to provide sufficient water reserve for adding locks in a river.

As for actual "water depth" I have my "Navionic app" on my phone that gives me that

View attachment 86901

This is linked to my FSX GPS and I see my boat location in real time on the app.
This is also how I know if the lakes and rivers on FSX are in the right place and right configuration,

I have not seen anything on the web that can compete with those good old fashion paper prints of those MNR topographical maps.

Michel

PS: Ended up luckier than I thought. On the Ontario Open Map, if I zoom right down to the last zoom before map disappears, I can find top of water elevations.
Lake Nipissing is at 196 m and Tout Lake is at 202 m.
Even though I have found some discrepancies like the Ottawa river from Mattawa to the Joachims dam goes up and down between 154 m and 151 m, Its still better than no information at all.

Perhaps this is what you seek ?

https://www.lioapplications.lrc.gov...ewer=Make_A_Topographic_Map.MATM&locale=en-CA

IIUC, you also refer to Anaglyph 3D glasses ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaglyph_3D

GaryGB

 

[MEPaquette]

Gary
I already have a link to that Ontario topographical map.
I did notice that it has 5 m intervals in this location, while arounf Trout lake it has 10 m intervals. Ansas I said, if you zoom in close enough, you get water elevation.

You will see that right at the dam you have 124 m. but also notice the contour line going across the water , indication the big drop in the water at the dam. A bit further upstream it shows 152 m (upper right corner)
Because they only show up at this lower zoom, you need to pan the map till you find them.
I found the glasses I am talking about

This is so old they call it "Vintage"

All you need is a matching set of aerial photographs place at a specific distance apart using cross hairs on the photo. Then you would set up the glasses above it on the fold out the stand you see in the photo.

You might have notice some of these cross hairs from the air on some roads. they are about 4' x 4'. Then you would have this tool that you would use to match similar points on both photo and it would convert it to high difference from one point to anther. you could calculate building heights of difference in ground elevation from one point to another.

At any rate, going back to the top with that topographical map, any way of showing this website as background to SBuilderX?

One more point on the water elevation on this map. It shows Trout Lake at 202 m and Turtle lake at 204 m. I am pretty sure that Trout Lake flows into Turtle lLke so they are not very accurate and to be taken with a few grain of salt. Bit I can work with these for what I want to do for now.

Michel