FSX Climbing Water on Coastline from Default/Stock Airport(?)

[Smart]

I've been trying to trouble shoot this issue reading many threads, but still can't find the solution.

I added a new airport project to both FSX and P3Dv4.5 library, they gave the same results. The red line shows the edge of, what I believe, a default FLATTEN polygons.

The water cliff on P3D is almost vertical climbing water surface, while it is smoother on FSX

Then I removed my add-on airport to see how the stock airport looked like. Here's the result

At this point It's obvious that this issue caused by a flatten polygon. However, I used ADE to see where is the stock airport in default scenery folder and found it is ... \FSX\Scenery\0903\Scenery, in APX74270.bgl.

I quit FSX, get to the folder and rename this APX74270.bgl file to .bak. Reload P3D, and I could find the airport in the list (couldn't search using ICAO), but managed to slew to the lat/long I know where is the aiport.

I thought the flatten polygons should also disappeared together with the removed/renamed stock bgl file, but it's still there!

\

It this point. I'm totally confused.

How can I remove this polygon that caused a climbing water on the airport by the coastline?

Thank you.
Smart

 

[GHD]

The default flatten is in the CVX file.

In ADE, you can add a polygon with attribute "Exclude General" > "Airport Backgrounds" to remove the default flatten then add one which matches your photo scenery.



However, you will also need to modify the default water poly (which is not so easy).

You will need to wait for GaryGB to add a detailed explanation.

 

[Smart]

George,

Thank you so much! Appreciated your advice.

 

[Smart]

I read ADE manual related to Terrain Polygons, but still can't thoroughly understand. Adding Exclude General -> Airport Backgrounds seemed to get the same result. Did you mean I have to create this polygon to cover the entire airport, or just the area where the climbing water exists?

 

[GaryGB]

Hello:

Indeed, VTPH RWY 34 SE end is 62 Feet / 19 Meters AMSL IRL, but is 6.56166 Feet / 2 Meters AMSL in Google Earth


Google Earth Desktop Edition:

Earth Versions – Google Earth

www.google.com

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hua_Hin_Airport

https://tools.wmflabs.org/geohack/g...12_38_10_N_099_57_05_E_type:airport_region:TH


While I appreciate the referral by George, due to limited available time today, my initial reply would involve a referral to tutorials by Luis Feliz-Tirado using SBuilderX.

To learn procedures to make more accurate scenery in local FS world areas, you may wish to review this tutorial:

Terrain Design

File Description:
Terrain Design for Flight Simulator X

This simple illustrated document explains the basic concepts in Flight Simulator X terrain, and how to change them using SBuilder for FS X. Make new water bodies, roads, vehicle traffic, airport flattens, remove autogen, add more detail - anybody can do it easily and quickly.
My most sincere apologies - I am unable, for lack of free time, to offer support of any kind. For questions or problems, please post in the Avsim scenery design forum.

Filename: terrain_design_for_flight_simulator_x.zip
License: Freeware
Added: 14th December 2009, 13:29:15
Downloads: 16648
Author: Luis Feliz-Tirado
Size: 3991kb

https://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fsxsd&DLID=141643



To make more accurate FS scenery, you are likely to also encounter these topics at some point as well:

Make photo-real ground textures

File Description:
It is very easy to create your very own high-resolution, custom (photo-real) ground textures. This document explains the concepts and techniques and illustrates the use of SBuilderX with which you can quickly and easily download aerial images and make this type of scenery. So, why hesitate? Make Flight Simulator scenery as real as it gets! Very sorry - no support of any kind is offered. Please do not write. For any questions, please post in the Avsim Scenery Design Forum.

Filename: make_photo-real_ground_textures_in_fs_x.zip
License: Freeware
Added: 21st November 2009, 23:20:06
Downloads: 17714
Author: Luis Feliz-Tirado
Size: 2143kb

https://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fsxsd&DLID=140539


Using the Autogen Annotator

File Description:
The Autogen Annotator is a powerful tool for modifying the autogen of default ground textures or adding autogen to custom (photo-real) ground. This document illustrates the use of the tool, and includes a pictorial guide to all autogen object types. Very sorry - no support of any kind is offered. Please do not write. For any questions, please post in the Avsim Scenery Design Forum.

Filename: using_the_autogen_annotator_264833.zip
License: Freeware
Added: 21st November 2009, 16:18:51
Downloads: 4220
Author: Luis Feliz-Tirado
Size: 8930kb

https://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fsxsd&DLID=140537


When I get some time free, I'll take a look at the terain mesh and CVX vector flatten for VTPH to see what might be done to make this location closer to what one sees IRL.

UPDATE:

To better visualize why the elevation is different in P3D versus FSX, load into SDK TMFViewer, these files:

[FSX install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\dem0903.bgl

[FSX install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\cvx7427.bgl


In another separate instance of SDK TMFViewer, load these files:

[P3D install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\dem0903.bgl

[P3D install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\cvx7427.bgl


The value seen on the bottom status bar as the Mouse cursor moves over the 'ground' area is Altitude in Meters

To ID CVX vector GUID of objects under the Mouse cursor, Right-click on a object poly-line > Identify Vector Features


Correlate that ID info with the table of CVX Vector GUIDs here:

https://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv4/sdk/world/terrain/vector_shape_properties_guids.html

https://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv4/sdk/world/terrain/terrain_overview.html#The Shp2Vec Tool


This image shows FSX default CVX HPX, HLX, FLX vector objects for VTPH on Google Satellite imagery:

This image shows P3D Default CVX FLX, HPX, HLX, PKX vector objects for VTPH on Google Satellite imagery:

One must edit a copy of these objects in SBuilderX after use of Patrick Germain's CvxExtractor on:

[FS install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\cvx7427.bgl


One then can Append to SBuilderX:

[FS install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\ESRI_7427\FLX7427.shp

[FS install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\ESRI_7427\HPX7427.shp

[FS install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\ESRI_7427\HLX7427.shp

[FS install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\ESRI_7427\PKX7427.shp

...superimposed on a Google Satellite tile-server background Map, and reassign vertex point coordinates / Altitudes.


Create CVX vector Exclude Polygons (not 'Exclusion Rectangles') with appropriate GUIDs for default FS original objects in the local QMID-11 quad.


Select and compile all Appended / Edited / Created CVX vector objects within the work-space of the SBuilderX project.


Position that BGL inside a folder chain linked to a Scenery Library GUI Area layer above the FS default scenery layers.


Feel free to inquire further if you require more help.

Hope this helps get your project a bit further towards a successful terrain configuration.

GaryGB


PS: Knowledge of this work-flow is top secret among FSDevelopers; be careful who you share this with !

 

[Smart]

Gary,

Thank you very much. Tons of information that I will need time to follow and try it again on my work. really appreciated!

Smart

 

[Smart]

I had TMFviewer that came with various versions of FSX and P3D SDKs, but for an unknown reason, I couldn't open any .bgl file. I just found this about this a fews days ago.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi again:

Are you saying you are not able to run either FSX SDK (ex: same as P3D v1.4x SDK) or P3Dv4.x / P3D v5.x SDK TMFViewer utilites ?

If so, did you try running those utilities with 'Administrator' permissions ?

GaryGB

 

[Smart]

I meant I could run TMFviewer from any SDK packages, but I couldn't open any .bgl file.

 

[GaryGB]

SDK TMFViewer opens BGL files compiled by SDK Resample such as terrain mesh and custom photo-real imagery land class textures, or BGL files compiled by SDK SHP2VEC such as CVX vector, land class objects etc..

But if one attempts to open an airport BGL or other BGL compiled with SDK BGLComp, one gets this error:

Is this the error message you have been seeing with the BGL types you attempted to open in TMFViewer ?

GaryGB

 

[Smart]

Yep! That was I exactly got.

 

[GaryGB]

OK, so let us know if you have any ongoing problem with performing these tasks using TMFViewer:

To better visualize why the elevation is different in P3D versus FSX, load into SDK TMFViewer, these files:

[FSX install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\dem0903.bgl

[FSX install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\cvx7427.bgl


In another separate instance of SDK TMFViewer, load these files:

[P3D install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\dem0903.bgl

[P3D install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\cvx7427.bgl


The value seen on the bottom status bar as the Mouse cursor moves over the 'ground' area is Altitude in Meters

To ID CVX vector GUID of objects under the Mouse cursor, Right-click on a object poly-line > Identify Vector Features


Correlate that ID info with the table of CVX Vector GUIDs here:

https://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv4/sdk/world/terrain/vector_shape_properties_guids.html

https://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv4/sdk/world/terrain/terrain_overview.html#The Shp2Vec Tool

GaryGB

 

[Smart]

OK. Now I can see it! Phewwwww ... take one step after another.

Being a flight simmer for over 2 decades doesn't help at all when I stepped into this developer side of FSX/P3D.

So, now it comes to CvxExtractor, another new program to learn.

One must edit a copy of these objects in SBuilderX after use of Patrick Germain's CvxExtractor on:

[FS install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\cvx7427.bgl


One then can Append to SBuilderX:

[FS install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\ESRI_7427\FLX7427.shp

[FS install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\ESRI_7427\HPX7427.shp

[FS install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\ESRI_7427\HLX7427.shp

[FS install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\ESRI_7427\PKX7427.shp

...superimposed on a Google Satellite tile-server background Map, and reassign vertex point coordinates / Altitudes.


Create CVX vector Exclude Polygons (not 'Exclusion Rectangles') with appropriate GUIDs for default FS original objects in the local QMID-11 quad.


Select and compile all Appended / Edited / Created CVX vector objects within the work-space of the SBuilderX project.


Position that BGL inside a folder chain linked to a Scenery Library GUI Area layer above the FS default scenery layers.

I searched in FSDevelopment and found this:

CVXExtractor - Exporting vector data.

CVXExtractor - Exporting vector data.

Hi folks CVXExtractor is a command-line application that allows you to export the vector data of a CVX BGL file into one of the following formats: - XML (Plain XML) - KML or KMZ - ESRI Shapes - BLN - OSM (Open StreetMap XML) Also note that original lines or polygons may be split if they cross...

www.fsdeveloper.com

also this one:

How to fix/amend a CVX for water/shoreline, without having the original saved files?

How to fix/amend a CVX for water/shoreline, without having the original saved files?

Say for instance, we have a CVX file that covers a large part of a major ocean/sea (big area) this is used for photoreal so the land-class doesn't poke its ugly little head out from under the nice photoreal along the coast. But the photoreal scenery ends at a certain point and the default...

www.fsdeveloper.com

Please advice where to download CVXExtractor. The given links in those threads were dead.

Is it the right thread to learn how to use it?

 

[GaryGB]

Yes, CvxExtractor is the correct FS utility, and the latter thread you linked to would be a good reference.

Download CvxExtractor from the OP of that thread:

CVXExtractor - Exporting vector data.

Hi folks CVXExtractor is a command-line application that allows you to export the vector data of a CVX BGL file into one of the following formats: - XML (Plain XML) - KML or KMZ - ESRI Shapes - BLN - OSM (Open StreetMap XML) Also note that original lines or polygons may be split if they cross...

www.fsdeveloper.com

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/attachments/cvxextractorgui_1_0_3_1-zip.38163/


BTW: Notice that above, I used transparency with colors of Appended *.SHP vector objects in SBuilderX, and also used GUID as the property for those objects during an Append (aka "import") to SBuilderX.

You may also wish to review my explanation of how that is done during the Append process in SBuilderX in this thread (this example is for Roads, but applies to any CVX vector object 'Append'):

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ects-in-sbuilderx-for-katl.444877/post-817582

Note as well, an explanation of the basic work-flow for Roads and Freeway Traffic is posted in that same thread.

GaryGB

 

[Smart]

This CVXExtractorGui is so much easier compare to the command line version. Thanks so much

From these explanations:

One then can Append to SBuilderX:

[FS install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\ESRI_7427\FLX7427.shp

[FS install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\ESRI_7427\HPX7427.shp

[FS install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\ESRI_7427\HLX7427.shp

[FS install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\ESRI_7427\PKX7427.shp

...superimposed on a Google Satellite tile-server background Map, and reassign vertex point coordinates / Altitudes.

I got the vertex point coordinates / altitudes reassigned (the airport polygon with new altitude, and 25 miles of shorelines).

Then .., the next line from your explanation:

Create CVX vector Exclude Polygons (not 'Exclusion Rectangles') with appropriate GUIDs for default FS original objects in the local QMID-11 quad.

I created a polygon as shown below. I set QMID to 11 (View -> QMID -> Level 11), but I don't understand the phrase"with appropriate GUIDs for default FS original objects in the local QMID-11 quad".

What type of this polygon I must select?

If the above clue can be solved. I still have 2 more tasks to get done:

• Select and compile all Appended / Edited / Created CVX vector objects within the work-space of the SBuilderX project.
• Position that BGL inside a folder chain linked to a Scenery Library GUI Area layer above the FS default scenery layers.

Please be patience with me.

 

[Smart]

OK. I tried using "Exclude_All_Terrain_Items". Select ALL, compile it to .bgl, put in folder and added to Scenery Library GUI above FS default scenery layers, and under my actual airport scenery.

Here's the result:

Wow! I'm getting excited! Then move a bit far from the shore:

and compare to the actual location:

From group of tourists in the actual photo, the concrete wall must be at least 3 meters height. From the airport data, RWY34 TDZE is 22 ft. or 6.7056 meters. I guess the sloped concrete and the sloped grass area take another 3 meters height.

• The appended shoreline vortexes need a bit of adjustment moving out few more meters, (HLX and HPX vortexes).
• I will also need to adjust the exclude CVX polygons, as this polygons also exclude all traffics.
• Next is the tunnels and a sloped runway (not sure if these 2 topics can be continued in this thread).

Got a lot of progress. Can't get this far without your guidance.

 

[GaryGB]

OK. I tried using "Exclude_All_Terrain_Items". Select ALL, compile it to .bgl, put in folder and added to Scenery Library GUI above FS default scenery layers, and under my actual airport scenery.

Here's the result:
View attachment 59272

Wow! I'm getting excited! Then move a bit far from the shore:

View attachment 59273

and compare to the actual location:

View attachment 59274

From group of tourists in the actual photo, the concrete wall must be at least 3 meters height. From the airport data, RWY34 TDZE is 22 ft. or 6.7056 meters. I guess the sloped concrete and the sloped grass area take another 3 meters height.

• The appended shoreline vertices need a bit of adjustment moving out few more meters, (HLX and HPX vortexes).
• I will also need to adjust the exclude CVX polygons, as this polygons also exclude all traffics.
• Next is the tunnels and a sloped runway (not sure if these 2 topics can be continued in this thread).

Got a lot of progress. Can't get this far without your guidance.

Indeed, the (seawall height ?) shadow at RWY34 end appears to derive from around 18 Meters AMSL:

Sun position on Google imagery from April 20, 2020 appears to be around 12:45 P.M. local time


Remember Freeway Traffic is clipped to QMID-15 quad borders, unlike other CVX vectors for terrain objects ...which are clipped to QMID-11 quad borders.

The tunnels and a sloped runway are probably best discussed in a new Sketchup topic, IMHO.


Looks like you are making some excellent progress ...well done !

I was composing a reply on how to exclude the specific CVX vector objects individually via multiple small triangular polys with the required exclude GUIDs, versus a single large polygon that covers the entire area.

However, if you have the exclusions you want from the single CVX vector exclude polygon, and intend to now Append all remaining CvxExtractor *.SHP files derived from the FS default:

[FSX install path]\Scenery\0903\scenery\cvx7427.bgl

...then that would also work to replace all default CVX vector content otherwise provided by the excluded default cvx7427.bgl.


NOTE: Like most GIS utilities, SBuilderX separates Poly-lines and Polygons into 2 distinct output files when it compiles to BGL via SHP2VEC.


Keep up the good work.

GaryGB

 

[Smart]

At this point, I'm quite satisfied with the result. However, at the other end of the runway (where it has to be 62 ft., ie. sloped up runway, it looked like the surrounding terrains are higher! Maybe FS got the terrain height data from add-on mesh?

Remember Freeway Traffic is clipped to QMID-15 quad borders, unlike other CVX vectors for terrain objects ...which are clipped to QMID-11 quad borders.

I got no clue how to fix this. Please explain more.

The tunnels and a sloped runway are probably best discussed in a new Sketchup topic, IMHO.

Noted.

 

[GaryGB]

At this point, I'm quite satisfied with the result. However, at the other end of the runway (where it has to be 62 ft., ie. sloped up runway, it looked like the surrounding terrains are higher! Maybe FS got the terrain height data from add-on mesh?

If you post a screenshot, perhaps I can look into this.

Remember Freeway Traffic is clipped to QMID-15 quad borders, unlike other CVX vectors for terrain objects ...which are clipped to QMID-11 quad borders.

I got no clue how to fix this. Please explain more.

Are there issues with Freeway Traffic display in FS if SBuilderX CVX vector objects are selected / compiled to BGL(s) ?

BTW: Notice that above, I used transparency with colors of Appended *.SHP vector objects in SBuilderX, and also used GUID as the property for those objects during an Append (aka "import") to SBuilderX.

You may also wish to review my explanation of how that is done during the Append process in SBuilderX in this thread (this example is for Roads, but applies to any CVX vector object 'Append'):

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ects-in-sbuilderx-for-katl.444877/post-817582

Note as well, an explanation of the basic work-flow for Roads and Freeway Traffic is posted in that same thread.

GaryGB

GaryGB

 

[jtanabodee]

Here's the result:
View attachment 59272



From group of tourists in the actual photo, the concrete wall must be at least 3 meters height. From the airport data, RWY34 TDZE is 22 ft. or 6.7056 meters. I guess the sloped concrete and the sloped grass area take another 3 meters height.

I think you have made a lot of progress. Normally I don't do that detail sea shore, just drawing a body of water and make the slope far away, gradually increase the height to match the shore line. But what you do is a good one. In some airport such as VTSP, there is no such a cliff like that, only sand seashore. So making a slope body of water might be a good option too.
About the slope of the runway and the tunnel with traffic below, FSX/ P3D do not support slope runway. There are only one runway height and the runway has to be flat. Making terrain polygon does not do anything, your runway will be at the same height on the seashore side anyway.
You need to make a model of the slope runway, apply the texture and make "platform" attachment to the model. Then place it over the scenery.

The surface of the runway need to be detached and then apply "attachment". Please see this link for P3Dsdk http://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv5/LearningCenter.php

After you attach the platform to the surface, the runway will be "harden" to let airplane taxi to that surface. AI does not use platform so they will submerge that slope. However VTPH has less traffic, this would not be a matter.
I can work this tunnel for you if you like. It is quite complicated one. I did that for FS2004 but it is not possible to do that with good quality in FSX but it is possible to do in P3d.
There are a lot of information for the newbie, but I am sure that you can get through those obstacles.