FSX How do I Cover a Portion of a Photo Real Image

#1
Hi Gary,
Got your message from the other thread. Yes, I like to learn how I can cover a portion of that image. First of all, look at this image of the KBHM ADE file I'm creating using the alignment satellite map:


KBHM 3.jpg



I hope this image is large enough for all to see. The alignment map is from 2002 and shows the runway extensions on the map. But if you look carefully at the runways in ADE, they show what the runways looked like between the years of 1960s to the late 1980s. I think it was in the early 1990s when runway 36/18 was extended from 4,856 to 7,100 feet. And around 2003, runway 6/24 was extended from 10,000 to 12,000 feet. You can actually see the construction of that in the satellite view you sent me. Runway 6/24 was actually 5/23 in those days. Runway 6/24 was lengthen on the N.E. side and runway 36/18 was lengthen on the south end of the runway.

Since if have the Alabama photo scenery installed, it shows the lengthened runways as of 2013. What I want to do is to take out those runway extensions so that it represents that time period and yet still have my Alabama scenery. Since you said ADE will not overwrite the runway extensions using the polygons I described in the other thread, the only way I know I can do that is to take that image and use Gimp to photo shop the runway extensions out, and I guess that's what you're referring to when you suggested that I use the SDK Autogen Annotation you described in the other thread.

I finally found the tile image file name and it's not a texture file but a bgl file. The file name is AL Areial1_I_11.bgl. When I have it on the screen, it show grids outlined in red dashes. I assume each bgl file represents 1 tile. I tried using that application but I don't know how I go about taking that image, photo shopping it, and replacing the other file. Is that how I need to do it? If so, this is what I need help with.

Oh, by the way, do you know where I can get a good hi resolution satellite image of the airport from the 1980s, one that does not have a bunch of crap written all over it, and one that does not charge $40.00 a month just to be able to download the images. That one is the one I really need.

Ken.
 
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#2
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...are-not-showing-up-in-fsx.441660/#post-787370


< 'Re-positioned' by GaryGB to optimize topic sequence >

Hi Ken:

There can be considerable complexity involved in making a Ground Polygon (aka "G-Poly") to cover the unwanted "new" RWY. :alert:

Textured default-type land class polygons will not cover the unwanted "new" RWY, but a custom photo-real aerial image edited to remove the unwanted "new" RWY can be feathered off to a transparent edge onto the underlying MegaScenery AL photo-real aerial imagery ...from a higher Area priority position near the top of the FS scenery library GUI stack of layers. :idea:

AFAIK, both your custom photo-real aerial image edited to remove the unwanted "new" RWY and the MegaScenery AL photo-real aerial imagery may then utilize the same tile of Autogen annotation when you are finished with creating your custom photo-real aerial image.


PS: If you would be interested in discussing that latter option, we can do so in a new thread here: :pushpin:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forums/ground2k4-sbuilder-sbuilderx.33/


FYI
:

KBHM - 1951



http://www.airports-worldwide.com/usa/alabama/birmingham_international_alabama.htm


KBHM - 2008



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham–Shuttlesworth_International_Airport


GaryGB
Hi Ken:

To clarify my quoted suggestion from the above thread, you may find that is easier to "use GIMP to 'PhotoShop' the runway extensions out" using an aerial image from a time period subsequent to the 1980's - 1990's ...in order to derive a 'reasonable facsimile' of what KBHM looked like during the 1980's - 1990's.


Rather than trying to decompile the "AL_Aerial1_I_11.bgl", it may be possible to find and download the equivalent local KBHM aerial imagery from either USGS or USDA that is in the public domain, then use that as a background map in your graphics application, and any FS scenery building utilities.


The resulting image can then be blended via a Mask layer, into the underlying KBHM aerial image tiles from a time period subsequent to the 1980's - 1990's (ex: the MegaScenery Earth Alabama "AL_Aerial1_I_11.bgl" which you reported to have used ex: 2013 aerial imagery file dates.


You could try blending a 'doughnut ring' of "synthesized" / cloned portions of surrounding scenery into the edges of a modified 'new' airfield image.


Alternatively, you could try blending the perimeter of a 1-piece image of both the "legacy" KBHM airfield image and "synthesized" / cloned portions of surrounding scenery, into the underlying ex: MegaScenery Earth Alabama "AL_Aerial1_I_11.bgl"


Either way, you will likely need to spend some time learning some techniques in your graphics application, to customize an aerial image from a time period subsequent to the 1980's - 1990's ...in order to derive a 'reasonable facsimile' of what KBHM looked like during the 1980's - 1990's.


The final image can then be compiled into a custom photo-real aerial imagery BGL added as a new Area positioned above the MegaScenery Earth Alabama in the FSX / P3D Scenery Library GUI, as a layer of higher priority that loads after- (and therefore "on top of"-) "AL_Aerial1_I_11.bgl".


I will take a look this weekend on several GIS data public domain download sites, to see if I can identify the same- or a close equivalent for- aerial imagery source as was used in the MegaScenery Earth Alabama.

If I can identify suitable Geo-referenced aerial imagery source data, that would make the work-flow for this task easier to achieve. :)

GaryGB
 
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#3
Hi Ken:

I now have some reasonably sharp USGS Black-and-White aerial imagery from 1997-1998 of KBHM and the surrounding area. :coffee:

NOTE: Original GeoTiff is ~700-MB un-compressed.


This can be re-projected and output into various sizes as needed for use in ADE, SBuilderX, Sketchup etc. as a 'background' image. :pushpin:

This could prove helpful to identifying the "Lay of the Land" in that era, for identifying sizes / positions of objects etc., as well as for establishing the general layout of the KBHM airport facilities at that point in time.


Please state what version of the MegaScenery Earth Alabama you have installed (AFAIK, there are 3 versions now), as this will help identify what 'year' of source aerial imagery was likely used for the product. :scratchch

If we can locate the same- or similar- color aerial imagery, it can be used to more accurately blend KBHM with surrounding areas. ;)

GaryGB
 

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#4
Hi Ken:

I now have some reasonably sharp USGS Black-and-White aerial imagery from 1997-1998 of KBHM and the surrounding area. :coffee:



This can be re-projected and output into various sizes as needed for use in ADE, SBuilderX, Sketchup etc. as a 'background' image. :pushpin:

This could prove helpful to identifying the "Lay of the Land" in that era, for identifying sizes / positions of objects etc., as well as for establishing the general layout of the KBHM airport facilities at that point in time.


Please state what version of the MegaScenery Earth Alabama you have installed (AFAIK, there are 3 versions now), as this will help identify what 'year' of source aerial imagery was likely used for the product. :scratchch

If we can locate the same- or similar- color aerial imagery, it can be used to more accurately blend KBHM with surrounding areas. ;)

GaryGB

Hi Gary,
I've already have this B/W image of KBHM and this one was the only one I could find. In google earth, I clicked on the History tool that allows me to go back in time and that's where I got it. But the problem with this image is that the north/south runway, which is runway 36/18 is still too long. In this image, the runway is 7,100 feet. In ADE, I have to change it to 4,856 feet. I do have an older map that dates back to 1970, but it is very crappy and has writings written all over it, and you cannot distinguish where the outlines of certain objects are. I'm not sure if you're suggesting that I use this as my photo real image over the Alabama MagaScenery, but if I did, the north/south runway would be too long. So, what I'm doing is using the color image from 2002 as my background image in ADE, making all of the necessary changes in the runway lengths. Anyway that has not changed from about 1973 to 1985, I use that as a reference. I then make a copy of my ADE and name it KBHM 1997 and use the 1997 B/W image as my back ground, and I line it up to my ADE project and make whatever taxiway changes I need to make based on that B/W image. This is best way I know.


you may find that is easier to "use GIMP to 'PhotoShop' the runway extensions out" using an aerial image from a time period subsequent to the 1980's - 1990's ...in order to derive a 'reasonable facsimile' of what KBHM looked like during the 1980's - 1990's.
Yes, I think so too but I'm not sure how I go about doing that. There is a video by K-Man, I believe it is, that I was watching the other day and he explained how to do just that. Regarding photo shopping out the runway extension, can I just use the 2002 color image to use as my photo real scenery and use Gimp to photoshop the runway extension out?
 
#5
Hi Gary,
You mentioned that you got that map from the USGS website. Where and how are you getting those satellite images? Every time I go to the website, I cannot find nothing nor any link that allows me to download satellite images. All I see is nothing but surveys, and things like that that have nothing to do with what I'm looking for. I assume I'm at the correct website - www.usgs.gov.

There's another thing that I'm curious about. You mentioned that the downloaded images can be used in SbuilderX as a background map. Does that include satellite images downloaded from USGS? If so, how do I import them into SbuilderX? I'm not sure if I'm doing it correctly but I would go to File, select "Add Map," and click "From Disk." I saved the image you sent me on my desktop in a JPEG file. After clicking "From Disk," I go to where that file is on my desktop and select that file. Then a message pops up and says, "you may need to calibrate this bitmap." When I click OK, a Map Properties windows opens. At the bottom, there is a button that says Calibrate. I also noticed there are coordinates that have to be entered, but I'm not sure where they would come from, unless it's part of a tiff file or is included in a text in the download. That's what I like about SbuilderX. It saves those coordinates in a text file so that when I add the image in ADE, I can enter all the information and it will line up perfectly. But when I click okay after calibrating, the image is not correct and its all worped, so to speak. So, where would one get those coordinates, and is there a way to get an accurate coordinate if they're not included in a text file in the download?

Ken.
 
#6
Hi Gary,
I forgot to mention what version of the MegaSceneryAlabama I have. It's version 2.0 from 2015. I didn't know they had 3 versions. But I need a scenery going back to at least 1980 through 1985. Anything later will show the runway extensions. I hope I answered everything.

Ken.
 
#7
Hi Ken:

I'll try to find more aerial imagery from 1980 to 1985 to use as a reference, along with more recent color aerial imagery which might match the original source for MegaScenery Alabama-v2.

To do that however, I'll need to see some screenies of MegaScenery Alabama-v2 color aerial imagery of KBHM and its immediate surrounding area, taken from FSX in Top-Down View, and/or from SDK TMFViewer.


FYI: The path to that utility is:

[FSX SDK install path]\SDK\Environment Kit\Terrain SDK\TmfViewer.exe

...or:

[Prepar3D SDK 1.4 install path]\Environment Kit\Terrain SDK\tmfviewer.exe


Also, please report what the highest LOD number is for:

MegaScenery Alabama: "AL_Aerial1_I_11.bgl"


...when loaded in SDK TMFViewer, by navigating:

TMFViewer Menu > View > Level Of Detail


PS: We need (and I will be seeking) aerial imagery which is projected in an appropriate GIS "projection", and already Geo-referenced (aka "calibrated" or "Geo-rectified") with Geographic ground coordinates for its pixel rows and columns. :pushpin:

GaryGB
 
#8
Hi Gary,
Here's a screenshot of the aerial view of KBHM taken from FSX in top down:


KBHM Aerial View.jpg



The level of detail is set at Auto(Standard). I tried to upload the AL_AerialI_11.bgl file but a message popped up and said the file was too large, even after compressing it in WinZip. So, I just made a screenshot of it, but it's the same view. Actually, the airport view from FSX is better because I have it zoomed in and lined up. The airport view in the tmfviewer is at the top left and is not centered, nor is it zoomed in to see any detail.


KBHM Aerial View Screenshot from tmf Viewer.jpg



Ken.
 
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#9
Hi Ken:

I have found Black-and-White aerial imagery from 1975, 1990, and color aerial imagery from 2014 and 2015 ...which we might use. :idea:

Sorry, I have not found any from the 1980's yet. :(


I will take a look at them tomorrow, to see what the major differences are that might merit modification in the scenery area surrounding the KBHM airport grounds, and will try to better identify what you are referring to with regard to the RWYs.

Please report what the highest LOD number is for:

MegaScenery Alabama: "AL_Aerial1_I_11.bgl"


...when loaded in SDK TMFViewer, by navigating:

TMFViewer Menu > View > Level Of Detail

This will tell us the internal 'maximum' resolution of aerial imagery in that BGL. :pushpin:

GaryGB
 
#10
="GaryGB, post: 788020, member: 995"
I have found Black-and-White aerial imagery from 1975, 1990, and color aerial imagery from 2014 and 2015 ...which we might use. :idea:

Sorry, I have not found any from the 1980's yet. :(

Hi Gary,
1975 is great! Anything regarding the runways and taxiways have not change between 1975 and the 1980s.


Please report what the highest LOD number is for:
I've mentioned it was set at "Auto Standard," or that one is checked. The level below that is "Auto Progressive," then "ALL." Below that are the LODs, and run from 0 to 27. If you mean what the highest number of LOD is for, I would not know. Here's a screenshot:


LODs.jpg




I hope this clarifies it.

Ken.
 
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#11
Hi Ken:

Thanks for clarifying that written description with a screenshot.

FYI: The highest "Bold" text entry displayed in the LOD list is 15 (aka "QMID-17"). ;)

This correlates with ~1.2 Meters on the ground per pixel, and is the same resolution as FSX default land class textures.

I'll see what I can find that might be useful, among the 1975 images I found of KBHM.

GaryGB
 
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#12
="GaryGB, post: 788037, member: 995"

FYI: The highest "Bold" text entry displayed in the LOD list is 15
That's interesting. I didn't noticed the "bold" text, and I also noticed that one of the images has to be selected and opened for it to be a bold text.


(aka "QMID-17"). ;)
I don't even know what "QMID-17" is and how you arrive at 17."


This correlates with ~1.2 Meters on the ground per pixel,
How do you arrive with 1.2 meters per pixel?


I'll see what I can find that might be useful, among the 1975 images I found of KBHM.
Okay, but could you go ahead and upload the 1975 KBHM image. I hope it came with a text file with the coordinates so that I can enter those in ADE so that the image lines up perfectly. If it did not, I'll have to use the "Position" method.


Ken.
 
#13
Hi Ken:

This post addresses those issues via my summary table on the MSFS Terrain Grid:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/flattens.425495/page-2#post-633002


The 1975 KBHM Imagery will need manual Geo-rectification and new "world" files to be generated from the associated image-specific metadata prior to export as GeoTIFF files via GIS software.

I will also provide a text metadata file version that is easier to read when you add your "Background Imagery" to ADE.


Because the imagery is high resolution, it is fairly large, and I will likely have to generate additional copies for use in ADE as a 1-piece low resolution JPG for a general overview, and several tiles of higher resolution JPG aerial imagery which can be added as "background images", then displayed 1-at-a-time for more detailed views of local project areas at KBHM.

I will have to test them first to confirm that they are able to 'fit' within the limited USERVA (aka "working memory address space") of a ADE Windows task session.

I hope to have time to attend to that this weekend before Holiday commitments will require my undivided attention. :santahat:


PS: Which numeric version and simulator output modes of ADE do you plan to use for this project ?

GaryGB
 
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#14
="GaryGB, post: 788125, member: 995"
The 1975 KBHM Imagery will need manual Geo-rectification and new "world" files to be generated from the accompanying XML metadata prior to export as GeoTIFF files via GIS software.

I will also provide a text metadata file version that is easier to read when you add your "Background Imagery" to ADE.


Because the imagery is high resolution, it is fairly large, and I will likely have to generate additional copies for use in ADE as a 1-piece low resolution JPG for a general overview, and several tiles of higher resolution JPG aerial imagery which can be added as "background images", then displayed 1-at-a-time for more detailed views of local project areas at KBHM.

Great.


PS: Which numeric version and simulator output modes of ADE do you plan to use for this project?
I guess you're referring to ADE when you said the version number and the output mode when I compile them. The ADE version I have is 1.67.5684.29938. Regarding the output mode, I do it differently at different times. But if you referring to where my project files are saved, they're saved in C:\MSFS\FS Design Tools\Airport Design Editor 165\FSX\Projects. If you're referring to where I plan to place my bgl files when they're compiled, I plan to create a folder Named "KBHM Old," and in that folder, I will create a folder named Scenery and Texture. I think this is how professional developers do it and it makes for a better structure. It will also allow me to switch on and off the same airport if I have more than one and move their priorities if I need to. I hope I answered that correctly.

Ken.
 
#15
Hi Ken:

This week I am looking into manual Geo-rectification of aerial imagery I found for KBHM; are these images suitable ? :coffee:

KBHM - 1975



KBHM - 2015





PS: Does this latter image correlate well with MegaScenery Alabama: "AL_Aerial1_I_11.bgl" ? :scratchch

If not, I have access to the preceding KBHM years 2011 - 2013 aerial imagery as well. ;)

GaryGB
 

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#16
="GaryGB, post: 788842, member: 995"
Hi Ken:

This week I am looking into manual Geo-rectification of aerial imagery I found for KBHM; are these images suitable ? :coffee:

Hi Gary,

Thanks for the Images, especially the 1975 image. But is it possible to get a much clearer and higher resolution image? It's very difficult to position the runways and everything precisely because the image is so grainy, especially when it's zoomed in. I wish it was a lot more clearer like the color images I have from google earth pro. There's probably nothing you can do about this because I suppose these old black and white images just did not have high resolution at the time, unless they just didn't want to release them. If you can, maybe zoom in as close as possible but make sure you get the entire airport image. Maybe that will help out some. The only thing I know to do is to use the high quality color images to position the main runways precisely, since they haven't been moved, and then use the 1975 image for comparison. By the way, did this 1975 image come with a text file to enter the coordinates into the fields in ADE to accurately position the map or image? I wish I knew how they figure those coordinates at their corners precisely because I never could get it to work precise when making images from google earth pro.

Regarding the MegaScenery Alabama, the 2015 looks very much like the image I have. But I checked the year those files were created and it says 2013. I don't remember what year it was I bought the scenery but it was several years ago. As a matter of fact, I think it was the first one to come out.

PS. I'll giver you more details regarding those ground polys in that thread.


Ken.
 
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#17
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...ion-of-a-photo-real-image.441699/#post-788859

Hi Gary,

Thanks for the Images, especially the 1975 image. But is it possible to get a much clearer and higher resolution image? It's very difficult to position the runways and everything precisely because the image is so grainy, especially when it's zoomed in. I wish it was a lot more clearer like the color images I have from google earth pro. There's probably nothing you can do about this because I suppose these old black and white images just did not have high resolution at the time, unless they just didn't want to release them. If you can, maybe zoom in as close as possible but make sure you get the entire airport image. Maybe that will help out some. The only thing I know to do is to use the high quality color images to position the main runways precisely, since they haven't been moved, and then use the 1975 image for comparison. By the way, did this 1975 image come with a text file to enter the coordinates into the fields in ADE to accurately position the map or image? I wish I knew how they figure those coordinates at their corners precisely because I never could get it to work precise when making images from google earth pro.
Yes the image you will use is much larger and more detailed; the screenshots I attached were just for this thread.

After I have finished the Geo-rectification process, I will provide you with that info, and a link to download the images.

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...ion-of-a-photo-real-image.441699/#post-788859

Regarding the MegaScenery Alabama, the 2015 looks very much like the image I have. But I checked the year those files were created and it says 2013. I don't remember what year it was I bought the scenery but it was several years ago. As a matter of fact, I think it was the first one to come out.
I'll try to post screenshots of 2013 and 2011 imagery for KBHM tomorrow (Thursday) ASAP.

GaryGB
 
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#18
Hi Ken:

Here's the screenshots of 2013 and 2011 imagery for KBHM:

KBHM - 2013



KBHM - 2011



KBHM - 2011
imagery above appears to match: MegaScenery Alabama: "AL_Aerial1_I_11.bgl" seen in:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...ion-of-a-photo-real-image.441699/#post-787982


Note: In KBHM - 2011 imagery, the airport appears to be under construction to the NE of the terminal building.


IMHO, in a graphics application, you could modify a copy of the source imagery for KBHM - 2013, and blend it into MegaScenery Alabama: "AL_Aerial1_I_11.bgl" to create a super-imposed replacement 'updated' tile of custom photo-real aerial imagery on top of MegaScenery Alabama for flying in 'present day' FS flight sessions. :idea:


Or you could modify a copy of the source imagery for KBHM - 2015 as described above, for a more 'current' version.


And, of course, you could modify a copy of the source imagery for KBHM - 2015 or KBHM - 2013, and blend it into MegaScenery Alabama: "AL_Aerial1_I_11.bgl" to create a super-imposed replacement 'early 1980's' tile of custom photo-real aerial imagery on top of MegaScenery Alabama for flying in 'historical' FS flight sessions. ;)


I am still working with several additional 1975 aerial imagery source file sets to see which one may yield the best result, and then I must manually geo-rectify it for further use as previously described above. :pushpin:

I will notify you when that process is completed. :)

GaryGB
 

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#19
Hi Gary,

I just happened to check here and noticed that you've posted here yesterday, Tuesday January, 9th. I don't know why, but I never got an e-mail alert that you posted here.

KBHM - 2011 imagery above appears to match: MegaScenery Alabama: "AL_Aerial1_I_11.bgl" seen in:
Yes, you're probably correct. It was around that time when I purchased it.


Note: In KBHM - 2011 imagery, the airport appears to be under construction to the NE of the terminal building.
Yes, that's the year when they did the reconstruction of the new terminal that exist today. It was in 2013 or 2014 when they did the inauguration. That same year, August 14, 2013, a UPS Airbus 300-600 crashed about a mile north of the N/S runway, for runway 18. They had runway 6/24 closed temporally, and if they had just flown for another 15 minutes, they could have used that runway. It's not to say that 18 could not accommodate the airbus but it doesn't have a glide slope. Only a localizer, and the crew never sequence the FMC when the did an RNAV approach. They came in too low and struck a tree and crashed on the hill north of the runway. If you go to google earth and set the time history to 12/17/2013, you can see where it had struck the ground and with burned marks. They died in the crash.


Or you could modify a copy of the source imagery for KBHM - 2015 as described above, for a more 'current' version.
Google Earth Pro has a later image which is October 24, 2016. Could I use that one? Of course, it'll have google's crap written on the map, but I think some of them can be turned off.


I am still working with several additional 1975 aerial imagery source file sets to see which one may yield the best result, and then I must manually geo-rectify it for further use as previously described above. :pushpin:
I will notify you when that process is completed. :)
Okay. I think I said something about zooming in to get a closer image, or something like that, but I came to realize that if you did that, it would not show some of the roads around the airport which I want to keep. I guess the best way would be to have several close images to get details and one full composite area of the entire airport. I want to have an image of where we lived in 1975. We lived just a quarter of a mile north of the airport, but those houses don't exist anymore.

Ken.
 
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