FSX How do I Cover a Portion of a Photo Real Image

Hi Ken:

Further work with this has been subject to the limitations of my available free time and endurance as I recuperate from some health issues which are gradually resolving at a much slower rate than I would prefer.


Before either of us proceed further with this proposed KBHM airport historical reconstruction project, I believe it would be best that we define more clearly, what it is that you wish to do with the scenery in the vicinity of the airfield.

Based on your prior posts regarding this KBHM historical reconstruction project, it appears likely that you wish to create your own custom photo-real aerial imagery land class BGLs for terrain textures that will blend the airfield area into the surrounding MegaScenery Alabama custom photo-real aerial imagery land class textures, and to then apply custom Autogen annotations to all those local custom terrain textures.

It is not clear thus far, whether you intend to use default land class textures within the airport area itself, or whether you intend for your custom photo-real aerial imagery land class BGLs to provide all the local terrain textures ...instead of using any of the default land class textures (and any associated default Autogen objects mapped to those land class texture types).


Is your primary goal only to reconfigure and resize a copy of the FS stock runways in ADE, place airfield buildings within the airport boundary / background area, and reconfigure a few municipal streets and other roads directly adjacent to the airfield, in order to create scenery intended to be "reasonably" historically accurate for circa 1970 -1985 ? :scratchch

If your goal is to modify the scenery for more than 1 km outside all N-E-S-W perimeters of the airport boundary / background, that will of course, require additional work to be performed. ;)


FYI: Generally speaking, all custom scenery development should be performed using background images which are cartographically configured in a "non-warped" display format prior to re-configuring one's final source files into a "warped" geographic (latitude-longitude) projection and WGS84 datum ...before they are finally submitted to the SDK compilers.

This will typically involve working with imagery tiles which are no larger than 1 km x 1 km per segment of intended scenery area, because accuracy of such "non-warped" cartographic projections may require re-calibration at distances greater than 1 km in any geographic direction from the center point of one's existing scenery segment.

Aerial imagery of KBHM shows that the bare minimum extents of just the airfield itself, are 3.5 km on the North-South axis, by 4.75 km on the East-West axis, which involves working with a minimum of 16.625 square kilometers of aerial imagery tiles, each individual tile of which should be properly "projected" cartographically prior to use as a background image in any scenery creation utility, so that it will properly align with either the default FS scenery and/or any add-on scenery based on properly projected source files.

So there is potentially a substantial amount of work involved, all depending, of course, on what it is that you want to do.

I am inclined to think that at this early phase of your project, it would be best for you to personally begin examining the available legacy black-and-white 1970-1975 aerial imagery to see what will best meet your needs and interests.

Once that has been established, we might identify the best legacy imagery that you wish to use as a background image in scenery creation utilities, then proceed with manual Geo-rectification of the selected aerial imagery.

Once that manual Geo-rectification has been achieved, one can then utilize copies of that source imagery in the configuration most compatible for individual FS scenery utilities such as ADE, SBuilderX, etc.


In order for you to begin accessing and downloading the aerial imagery I have referred to above, you must first create a user account registered with the US geological survey / NASA-JPL. :pushpin:

https://ers.cr.usgs.gov/register/


The imagery which I have been examining is best accessed via the Earth Explorer Web portal:

https://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/

...which, although it does have a online map viewer available to use without a user account, otherwise requires that you must be logged in via a user account in order to actually download files.


My intention at this time, is to point you to a number of particular aerial imagery files accessible via the USGS Earth Explorer Web portal, which you would then need to download direct to your own machine via your own user account

Depending upon how well the manual Geo-rectification proceeds for the aerial imagery which you ultimately determine to be best for your purposes, I had planned to provide you with the geographic coordinates to use in order to properly Geo-reference the image tiles you intend to use as background images in scenery creation utilities.

Those geographic coordinates can be used by you, to manually Geo-rectify and cartographically re-project on your own computer, the aerial imagery which you ultimately determine to be best for your purposes, since the number and size of the files involved would be impractical for me to upload to a third-party download location in order to grant you access to them.


PS: What are the Geographic coordinates of the former location for the house you lived in circa 1970-1985 ?


Feel free to let me know when you are ready to proceed further after committing to the required registration process necessary to gain access to the archived aerial imagery files which I believe will prove helpful to completing your scenery project. :)

GaryGB
 
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Hi,

I was wondering if my Alabama Scenery that I have installed in FSX will work in P3Dv4, or do I have to specially get the one for P3Dv4? Mine is version 2 but they do have a version 3 that is for both FSX and P3Dv4. I'm thinking it may pay off just to get the version 3.

Ken.
Hi Ken:

IIUC, your post quoted above was intended to be posted in your other thread on the topic involving MegaScenery Alabama products: ;)

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/how-do-i-cover-a-portion-of-a-photo-real-image.441699/


IMHO, unless the resolution and visual quality of the aerial imagery is better than prior versions, and unless enhanced terrain or autogen scenery is now included, the FSX / P3D version may only be different by virtue of having dual FSX / P3D install routines included in the package; regardless, AFAIK the BGLs from older and newer versions should both be compatible with either FSX or P3D.

This question is otherwise best asked in the tech support forum for the MegaScenery Alabama product. :pushpin:


GaryGB
 
Hi Ken:

IIUC, your post quoted above was intended to be posted in your other thread on the topic involving MegaScenery Alabama products: ;)

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/how-do-i-cover-a-portion-of-a-photo-real-image.441699/


IMHO, unless the resolution and visual quality of the aerial imagery is better than prior versions, and unless enhanced terrain or autogen scenery is now included, the FSX / P3D version may only be different by virtue of having dual FSX / P3D install routines included in the package; regardless, AFAIK the BGLs from older and newer versions should both be compatible with either FSX or P3D.

This question is otherwise best asked in the tech support forum for the MegaScenery Alabama product. :pushpin:


GaryGB

Hi Gary,
I forgot about that thread but I remember posting here now. I did sent an e-mail to their tech support but haven't heard from them. I should hear something by tomorrow. The version 3 cost about $30.00 and may go ahead and purchase it.

Ken.
 
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Hi Gary,

A while back, you posted a KBHM image from 1975. I've been trying to find that image but I cannot find it. The website I went to is:

https://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/


Every time I put in a date, for example, 1/1/1975 through 1/30/1975, or something like that, I get a message saying NONE FOUND, as though they don't have it. But I know they should have them if that's where you got that image. It does ask a lot of other questions, such as the type of data I want, or something like that that may be contributing to that message, and I don't understand anything about what they're asking or which ones to select. The image you've posted looks like very low resolution image and when I zoom in, there is no detail. Do they have higher resolution images that I can get, and how, or what all do I need to do to find and get those images? I thought I would start working on my older KBHM from that time period. Actually, we moved across the street from that airport in 1972 or 1973. At that time, there was an older terminal building and I remember we would take to short drive to the main terminal and we could go upstairs and watch the planes from the upper deck outside. It was about 1973 or 1974 that the new terminal was built, and was used until again in 2013, the newer terminal was opened. So, I wouldn't mind having a good quality image from maybe about 1971 or 1972.

Ken.
 
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Hi Ken:

When I get some more personal free time available, I will go back and refresh my memory as to which aerial imagery downloads via EarthExplorer might merit consideration for use as a background image in ex: ADE, SBuilderX, SDK Autogen Annotator, or other scenery utilities you might wish to utilize in your KBHM airport historical reconstruction project. :pushpin:


FYI: Due to the various special file formats of the older aerial imagery we are considering for 1970's-era KBHM, I will need to verify- and perhaps change- the Geo-referencing and GIS imagery file format first, before I provide you with the links and/or file names, so that I can identify 1 or more utilities with which you can use and/or view them on your own computer, since there are limitations in how much can actually be visualized via the EarthExplorer map viewer web portal.


BTW: The screenshots I previously posted in this thread are purposely in a reduced resolution format in order to fit within the forum screenshot size limits for attached files, so it may still be possible to use the original aerial imagery due to it actually being in a higher resolution before it was rendered down to a screenshot. ;)


PS: If you can identify some Geographic Lat-Lon coordinates for your prior 1970's-era 'home' location from older Google Earth Desktop Edition imagery using the date slider of the "clock" icon on the toolbar, it would help me identify some additional imagery that covers that particular area around KBHM; most of the imagery I am looking at thus far has tiles for a very large area surrounding KBHM airfield.

GaryGB
 
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PS: If you can identify some Geographic Lat-Lon coordinates for your prior 1970's-era 'home' location from older Google Earth Desktop Edition imagery using the date slider of the "clock" icon on the toolbar, it would help me identify some additional imagery that covers that particular area around KBHM; most of the imagery I am looking at thus far has tiles for a very large area surrounding KBHM airfield.
Hi Gary,
The only older image I can find is the one from 1998 using Google Earth Pro. I downloaded and installed the older version of Google Earth but it would not work correctly and got error messages, so I just uninstalled it. I'm not sure, but I'm thinking that when you stated that you wanted me to identify some Geographic Lat-Lon coordinates, you're referring to how much of the sounding area around the airport I wanted. If so, it's something like this:


KBHM-1998.png



You can probably add a little more to the surrounding airport. In this image, you may noticed that runway 6/24, which was 5/23 at the time, is shorter. It's 10,000 feet as appose to being 12,000' today. I could probably use this image but it would be better to have a 1970 - 1975 image, if I can get a high resolution image. Let me know if there's more you need.

Ken.
 
Hi Ken:

Your additional info above will help in selecting aerial imagery tiles for the overall extent of intended coverage surrounding KBHM.

What I also would find helpful is some approximate Geographic coordinates from Google Earth for where your home was located in the 1970's as described in your post above, so I can see if a particular aerial image set depicts that area more clearly than other sets I have examined so far.

GaryGB
 
Hi Gary,

The locations where I lived at the time are marked with an red X. The red X on the east side of the airport was from about 1972-1974. The read X at the north side is where I lived from 1974-1977.


Where I Lived.png


The thing that had changed is that between 1972-1973 was the construction of a new terminal at the time, which would now be the old terminal. Years later, a new control tower was built. Then around 2011, the construction of a new terminal went underway, and that's the terminal you see today. The houses I lived in don't exist today and even the landmark has changed tremendously on the north side. I have a good color hi resolution image of the house we lived in on the east side but I don't have any good images of the house we lived in on the north side because I haven't been able to locate hi quality resolution image of that area. It was all changed around the mid 1990s when the air national guard bought out the property. The red X on the east side is about precise but the one on the north side may be off a little because the road and the landmark is not there anymore.

Ken.
 
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Hi Gary,
I was wondering if you're time is still limited with helping me to get some of the old satellite images. If so, is there someone else that can help me? I've tried several times to locate a satellite image from around 1972 to 1975 and I can't find them, and messages would say that they don't exist. And when I find something, they don't look nothing like satellite images. I don't understand why it's so difficult to get these images when I submit that time period, and having to select the correct data information, and that's probably where my problem is.

Ken.
 
Hi Ken:

"Aerial imagery" is taken by aircraft, and "satellite imagery" ...by satellites. ;-)

The aerial imagery I have previously found and examined for KBHM area via the EarthExplorer web portal for the 1970's time period you specified are Black-and-White (aka "B+W"), and are accessed under more than one category.

The same is true of some later aerial imagery from a time period subsequent to the specified 1970's, except that there a few images in color which may also prove useful to your project in certain aspects of making a more complete historical reconstruction of an ealier KBHM (depending, of course, on how detailed you may wish to make it.)

I am traveling at this time, and will have to refresh my memory as to what those categories and images were, some tme after I have returned and fulfilled a few more of my prior commitmernts.

GaryGB
 
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https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/adding-a-satellite-image-to-ade.445648/post-824955

Hi Gary,

I was finally able to locate a satellite view of KBHM, the Birmingham Municipal Airport from 1981 from USGS Earth Explorer. The only Aerial Image I could fine was under NHAP, whatever that means. The quality is not that great but I can still use it. I still cannot find any KBHM images from 1973, and I guess if I did, it would be in B&W and the quality would not be that good. Anyway, the problem I ran into is that the image was not taken from a N and S position but and E and W position, but I was able to rotate the image file 90 degrees. It Shows the Data Set Attribute alone with their Attribute Valuse, and allows me to switch to the FGDC Format. The Attribute shows some coordinates that I can use in ADE. I opened ADE and selected my airport. Then I right clicked, selected 'Add' and then 'Image,' Then I tried to enter the coordinates, but the image would not come out right and did not line up with the airport background. Am I supposed to be able to use the coordinates provided and it line up perfectly with the background airport image? I must not be doing something right. I put in the N.W. and S.E. latitude/longitude coordinates like I've always done when using the Sbuilder. I'm doing this project in FSX.

Ken.
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/adding-a-satellite-image-to-ade.445648/post-825746

Hi Ken:

Your opening post for this thread above is apparently a follow-up for this existing thread regarding KBHM from 2018:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/how-do-i-cover-a-portion-of-a-photo-real-image.441699/


Congratulations on your progress with registering for EarthExplorer and misc. USGS download accessibility. :pushpin:

Since you are still deriving a background image for future use, I suggest that we continue this discussion in the thread linked above.


Also, I believe it would prove very helpful to your project, and to other would-be historical airfield reconstruction FS developers, to welcome the experienced insight and input so kindly offered by Airtrooper (aka "Andy" of Airfield Construction Group, ACG). :idea:


Many thanks are due to Andy for that generous offer ! ;)


Since my own available free time such a project as this one is also rather limited, perhaps between all respective contributions, we might more quickly see this project through to a satisfactory Geo-referenced and properly formatted imagery source.

Once that Geo-referenced and properly formatted imagery source is created, it can be used in ex: SBuilderX to generate any desired CVX vector content, and a custom photo-real land class imagery BGL which, in addition to being used in FS when connected to ADE for historical airport design / editing of a custom-named copy of the current KBHM, it can also be used for Autogen annotation via SDK Annotator.


See you in your other existing thread on this topic linked above. :wave:

GaryGB
Hi Ken:

I have quoted pertinent posts from your other recent thread which IIUC, was intended as a follow-up for this thread regarding KBHM.


I recommend that for at least some further discussion on this specific topic, we should do so within the preceding context of this thread.


* Please reply with a link to the specific imagery file(s) you are interested in using for this KBHM historical airfield reconstruction project.

* Please also include a name for the file(s) or other identifying information specific to that imagery.


This will be required in order for us to be able to download and examine the specific imagery you want to use as described above. :pushpin:

GaryGB
 
Hi Ken:

I have quoted pertinent posts from your other recent thread which IIUC, was intended as a follow-up for this thread regarding KBHM.


I recommend that for at least some further discussion on this specific topic, we should do so within the preceding context of this thread.


* Please reply with a link to the specific imagery file(s) you are interested in using for this KBHM historical airfield reconstruction project.

* Please also include a name for the file(s) or other identifying information specific to that imagery.


This will be required in order for us to be able to download and examine the specific imagery you want to use as described above. :pushpin:

GaryGB

Hi Gary,

I've been reviewing the past threads to refresh my memory on the things we've discussed, and they tie in with the topic at hand. As you said, the forum has a limit on how large a file can be, and now I understand why the KBHM 1975 image you posted a while back is so grainy. Let me say that when I was searching for an image of KBHM, I was more interested in an image between 1973 - 1975. But it did not turn up anything from that time period but I did find one from June 6, 1981, which was okay. At least, I had something that was pretty much the same between 1973 and 1981, but still would like to have one from 1973, if it's available and is in high resolution. Here are the links to the 1981 image:

https://ims.cr.usgs.gov/browse/aircraft/phoenix/nhap/5NRD/5NRD04021/5NRD04021_068.jpg

https://ims.cr.usgs.gov/browse/aircraft/phoenix/nhap/5NRD/5NRD04021/5NRD04021_205.jpg

You mentioned to include a name or some identifying information. Does this help:

  • Entity ID:NC1NHAP800367206
  • Coordinates:33.5833 , -86.6875
  • Acquisition Date:06-JUN-81

  • Entity ID:NC1NHAP800367069
  • Coordinates:33.5833 , -86.8125
  • Acquisition Date:05-JUN-81

In case the link doesn't work, I got the image from EarthExplorer. When you get there, just zoom in to locate KBHM, which is about 33.5 degrees latitude and -86.87 longitude. Just click on the airport to include the coordinates. Then using the calendar, I selected a year from 1980 to 1985 and click on Data Sets. I clicked, or checked Aerial Imagery and selected NHAP and click Results. I have no idea what HNAP is or what all of that means, but I just went through each one and finally found something. The images should show up in the left colume. Images 2 and 3 were the ones I selected. Now, you'll noticed that the images were not taken from a N. S. position but from a W. E. position, in other words, 90 degrees from what it should be. Before I could add the image to ADE, I had to flip the image 90 degrees. I selected 2 of these images because the airport is practically right on the edge in each image and putting the 2 together would give me what I need.

It's not so easy trying to put the 2 together. This is what I did to get the size close to being correct when I add the image to ADE. Using google earth, I picked a road that existed in 1981 and measured to another point to arrive a distance, for example, 15,855.10 feet. Then I imported the image into Gimp and cropped the image to those points measured so that the horizontal distance can be entered in ADE. After exporting the file, I opened ADE and added the image, which of course. is too small. I double clicked the image and placed a checkmark to maintain Aspect Ratio and entered the distance, 15855.10. It comes out pretty close but the S.W. end of runway 6/24 is off a little. It's probably because I'm not using a good projected image that I've read about. Anyway, that was the best thing I could find, but would be great to find one from 1973. If not, 1975 would be fine.

Regarding what I want to do with the image, I'm using the older image to line up where the roads and objects used to be. For example, the streets on the north side of the airport where I used to live no longer exist, and would require an old image to place these roads exactly where they used to be. So, I would also like to have a real photo image, but of that time period, added to my scenery for FS, if that's possible. By the way, the resolution quality in the 1981 image is still not no where as good as those later images in google earth.

Ken.
 
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Hi Gary,

I thought I would post an image of my airport in ADE from the 1981 image:


KBHM 1981.jpg



The streets you see on the north side of the airport is where I used to live
 
Hi Ken:

I will first look into Geo-rectification, rotation, and merging of the 2 images you linked above. :)

Due to limited available free time, I must leave it up to you to explore the many 'available' images to find one from the 1970's. :coffee:


BTW: Did you also note there are download links at EarthExplorer for larger GZIP versions of the (2) above images ?

NC1NHAP800367069.tif.gz

NC1NHAP800367206.tif.gz


[EDITED]

PS: WinRAR and 7-ZIP both support GZIP archive formats. ;)

[END_EDIT]

GaryGB
 
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Hi Ken:

I sent you a link via PM to a 1970 KBHM 1-Meter custom B+W aerial imagery land class BGL for FSX / P3D you can test,
to verify Geo-referencing coordinate correlation with modern imagery BGL(s); AFAIK it is aligned to ESRI World Imagery.

FS can then be connected to ADE and/or SBuilderX via FSUIPC to create or modify scenery with user aircraft positions.


FYI: The image used for this particular BGL was:


1VCJW00010056.tif USGS EarthExplorer Download URL:

https://dds.cr.usgs.gov/ltaauth/hsm...=AR1VCJW00010056&did=515288553&ver=production

1VCJW00010056.tif USGS EarthExplorer Metadata URL:

https://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/metadata/4660/AR1VCJW00010056/


NOTE: Significant correction of the Geo-rectification was required to align with 2019 ESRI World Imagery in a Mercator projection / WGS84 datum after initial import and processing via Global Mapper in Orthographic projection, so I shall provide you with new Metadata for the final imagery source file used when I can get some more available free time.

I will be traveling most of this weekend, but will try to check in on this thread tomorrow as time permits.

Have fun with your KBHM restoration project ! :cool:

GaryGB
 
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Hi Gary,

Thanks for that KBHM 1970 bgl file. I placed the bgl in FSX and checked it out, but I would still need an image file to open it in ADE because ADE will not open this bgl file, since it's not an airport file. Was there a reason you made it a bgl file? Does it help in placing my image so that it's in the correct position, the correct size, and heading? Of course, I'm glad you sent it as a bgl because it gave me the opportunity to place it in FSX and try it out in the sim. Here's a screenshot of that bgl and as you can see, it does not merge, or line up with my previous KBHM Airport, and appears to be too large. This is what it looks like in FSX, Top View:

KBHM 1970.jpg



I've though I've mentioned it but I was able to download these images and add to ADE. But I had to increase its size, rotate the image, and position it. I've tried using the coordinates in the metadata, I think it's called, but it does not line up and merge correctly. So, I've been working with the image and about have it done. At first I thought this was a satellite image but it's not. It was taken from an aircraft at 14,000 feet. So, I need to remember that aerial views are taken from aircrafts. When I complete my project, I'll upload it here.

P.S. Did you make this image into a bgl file using SbuilderX?

Ken.
 
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/how-do-i-cover-a-portion-of-a-photo-real-image.441699/post-826316

Hi Gary,

Thanks for that KBHM 1970 bgl file. I placed the bgl in FSX and checked it out, but I would still need an image file to open it in ADE because ADE will not open this bgl file, since it's not an airport file.

We all know ADE will not open imagery BGLs; it was all I had time available for ...in the late hours of the A.M. :rolleyes:

I will also send you a ADE background image file set derived from the source file with new metadata to Geo-reference it ...when I get some time after this weekend. ;)


Yes, so that you can test:

..."to verify Geo-referencing coordinate correlation with modern imagery BGL(s); AFAIK it is aligned to ESRI World Imagery.

FS can then be connected to ADE and/or SBuilderX via FSUIPC to create or modify scenery with user aircraft positions."


https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/how-do-i-cover-a-portion-of-a-photo-real-image.441699/post-826316

Does it help in placing my image so that it's in the correct position, the correct size, and heading?

Yes; it is intended to be a positioning reference in FSX / P3d ...for use in ADE and SBuilderX


https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/how-do-i-cover-a-portion-of-a-photo-real-image.441699/post-826316

Of course, I'm glad you sent it as a bgl because it gave me the opportunity to place it in FSX and try it out in the sim.

Here's a screenshot of that bgl and as you can see, it does not merge, or line up with my previous KBHM Airport, and appears to be too large. This is what it looks like in FSX, Top View:

(Image not included in quote)

If your original ADE background image is derived from a *.BMP output into [SBuilderX install path]\Tools\Work, it is in a "warped" Geographic projection / WGS84 datum, vertically compressed, and perhaps rotated counter-clockwise.

The BGL I sent you is for use in making scenery content in a proper "non-warped" Mercator projection / WGS84 datum

It it 'should' look taller than another image derived from a "warped" Geographic projection / WGS84 datum *.BMP

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/how-do-i-cover-a-portion-of-a-photo-real-image.441699/post-826316

I've though I've mentioned it but I was able to download these images and add to ADE. But I had to increase its size, rotate the image, and position it. I've tried using the coordinates in the metadata, I think it's called, but it does not line up and merge correctly. So, I've been working with the image and about have it done. At first I thought this was a satellite image but it's not. It was taken from an aircraft at 14,000 feet. So, I need to remember that aerial views are taken from aircraft. When I complete my project, I'll upload it here.

I will also test further upon my return after this weekend to verify:

"Geo-referencing coordinate correlation with modern imagery BGL(s); AFAIK it is aligned to ESRI World Imagery."

...and if it requires more rectification to reference aerial or satellite imagery, I will issue a new version for you soon.


Yes; the image was pre-formatted to Mercator projection / WGS84 datum when loaded from disk so that when selected / compiled by SBuilderX, it was in the correct format when submitted to- and processed by- SDK Resample.

FYI: It is internally re-projected by SBuilderX to a SDK required Geographic projection / WGS84 datum ...prior to compilation.


Please make a ArcGIS World Imagery BGL at KBHM in SBuilderX to test it with on your computer. :pushpin:

GaryGB
 
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it was all I had time available for ...in the late hours of the A.M. :rolleyes:
That's okay. You need your rest. I'm the same way. I get so involve in this and wanting to learn more that I set up too late, and I have to watch myself. It doesn't seem that there's enough time in the day, and it's late in no time. I see now, this is only a portion of it.


I will also send you a ADE background image file set derived from the source file with new metadata to Geo-reference it ...when I get some time after this weekend. ;)
Great. I just wish I knew how you determine when and what is needed in the metadata to make it Geo-reference.


Please make a ArcGIS World Imagery BGL at KBHM in SBuilderX to test it with on your computer. :pushpin:
I'll try that. See you when you get back.

Ken.
 
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