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MSFS24 How to remove default helipads in MSFS2024?

IIUC, an airport AFD XML "deleteAllHelipads" attribute may eliminate the Helipad "H" 'mast' aerodrome marker only within its ICAO 'boundary'.

Perhaps one may find a workflow for excluding a default MSFS Helipad's visible 3D model via use of this Google search query string: :idea:

<CODE>

MSFS 2024 Helipad delete 3D model

</CODE>

GaryGB
 
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Hi Gary,
Between mamu and myself I have removed the starting location (H01) as well as the scenery object b y not only adding an exclusion rectangle (exclude all) but also 'ticking' the deleteallhelipads in the airport properties. I think that is all we did.
 
I have decided instead of having a generic CAM9 airport package for 2020 and 2024 plus supplement packaged for 2024 to convert the 2020 version to 2024, add the extra bits and release just for 2024 as no one these days would start out with 2020 since 2024 is just as cheap.
 
IMHO, no one "should" attempt development for MSFS 2024 without also having installed- and previously used- MSFS 2020.

Personally, I would recommend planning to keep MSFS 2020- and the MSFS 2020 SDK- still installed for ongoing FS Development.


I would also recommend maintaining availability of your CAM9 packages for both MSFS 2020 and 2024 at flightsim.to.

First, they are excellent in quality, and enhance an otherwise overlooked aspect of the PNW in the MSFS world.

Second, both the popular add-ons for MSFS at CYVR and Vancouver area do not feature the seaplane bases at CAM9; you met that need. :)


As much as I see great potential in MSFS 2024, in my experience, it is a W.I.P. with much more yet to be done by MS-Asobo before it is adequately documented and accommodating for practical and extensive use by the (3rd party) FS Development community.

In terms of cost, "Time is Money", and working around the limitations in what IMHO is an immature- but demanding- SDK in MSFS 2024, is a more 'costly' expenditure of time than is required by MSFS 2020 (or FS2Kx versions) ...no matter how good MSFS 2024 looks in the run time rendering engine.

I believe you may find the greater amount of established add-on packages at flightsim.to continues to be those compatible with MSFS 2020, but which are not yet fully compatible with MSFS 2024.

This has parallels with the situation for FSX add-ons (and scenery creation utilities) which are not yet fully compatible with P3Dv5 and P3Dv6.

L-M may have thought changing some aspects of the FS2Kx SDK would be well received by a large proportion of the FS Development and end user community; but my observation is P3D utilization decreased as a result of problematic P3DV5 / P3Dv6 SDK issues (and separate add-on purchases sometimes being required for products end users had used for years in FSX because latter P3D versions used a significantly 'different' SDK).

AFAIK, FSDev now sees only a very small amount of people attempting to use- and develop for- P3DV5 / P3Dv6.
although I doubt if that trend will predominate in popularity over download of add-ons targeting MSFS 2020 for quite some years to come.

But this digresses off the topic for this thread, which still has no example XML code to benefit others here seeking info that demonstrates the undocumented 2-step requirements to undo code that the MSFS SDK- and default scenery- creates for Helipads.

GaryGB
 
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Here is the airport xml code to remove helipads


<FSData version="9.0">
<ExclusionRectangle latitudeMinimum="49.17669935418972" latitudeMaximum="49.17742177968328" longitudeMinimum="-123.16810334902907" longitudeMaximum="-123.16724711251500" excludeAllObjects="TRUE"/>
<Airport displayName="Harbour Air Seaplanes Richmond (Yvr Sout" groupIndex="1" groupID="1" groupGenerated="FALSE" name="Harbour Air Seaplanes Richmond (Yvr Sout" ident="CAM9" lat="49.17710673197939" lon="-123.16763377751636" alt="-0.11890935245901" magvar="0.000000" trafficScalar="1.000000" airportTestRadius="500.00000000000000" applyFlatten="FALSE" isOnTIN="FALSE" tinColorCorrection="TRUE" closed="TRUE">
<AirportArchetype/>
<Aprons/>
<PaintedElements/>
<ApronEdgeLights/>
<DeleteAirport deleteAllApproaches="FALSE" deleteAllApronLights="FALSE" deleteAllAprons="FALSE" deleteAllFrequencies="FALSE" deleteAllHelipads="TRUE" deleteAllRunways="FALSE" deleteAllStarts="TRUE" deleteAllTaxiways="FALSE" deleteAllVectorPlacement="FALSE" deleteAllBoundaryFences="FALSE" deleteAllJetways="FALSE" deleteAllControlTowers="FALSE" deleteAllDepartures="FALSE" deleteAllArrivals="FALSE" deleteAllPaintedElements="FALSE" deleteAllLightSupports="FALSE" deleteAllTaxiwaySigns="FALSE" deleteAllILSs="FALSE" deleteAllTerminalWaypoints="FALSE" deleteAllTerminalNDBs="FALSE" deleteAllProjectedMeshes="FALSE" deleteAllGLSs="FALSE"/>
</Airport>
</FSData>

The parameters in bold are the important ones.

excludeallobjects is a exclusion rectangle positioned over the object Asobo displays for the helipad.

deleteallhelipads is an airport parameter

I think that deleteAllStarts="TRUE" should be FALSE. Mamu originally had parameter closed airport selected (ticked) in the editor which effectively prevents CAM9 even appearing as an airport.
 
jgarnold said:
Here is the airport xml code to remove helipads
Click to expand...

(Reformatted by GaryGB for easier proofreading via NotePad++ > Menu > Plugins > XML Tools > PrettyPrint > Indent Attributes)

Code: 
<FSData version="9.0">
    <ExclusionRectangle
            latitudeMinimum="49.17669935418972"
            latitudeMaximum="49.17742177968328"
            longitudeMinimum="-123.16810334902907"
            longitudeMaximum="-123.16724711251500"
            excludeAllObjects="TRUE"/>
    <Airport
            displayName="Harbour Air Seaplanes Richmond (Yvr Sout"
            groupIndex="1"
            groupID="1"
            groupGenerated="FALSE"
            name="Harbour Air Seaplanes Richmond (Yvr Sout"
            ident="CAM9"
            lat="49.17710673197939"
            lon="-123.16763377751636"
            alt="-0.11890935245901"
            magvar="0.000000"
            trafficScalar="1.000000"
            airportTestRadius="500.00000000000000"
            applyFlatten="FALSE"
            isOnTIN="FALSE"
            tinColorCorrection="TRUE"
            closed="TRUE">
        <AirportArchetype/>
        <Aprons/>
        <PaintedElements/>
        <ApronEdgeLights/>
        <DeleteAirport
            deleteAllApproaches="FALSE"
            deleteAllApronLights="FALSE"
            deleteAllAprons="FALSE"
            deleteAllFrequencies="FALSE"
            deleteAllHelipads="TRUE"
            deleteAllRunways="FALSE"
            deleteAllStarts="TRUE"
            deleteAllTaxiways="FALSE"
            deleteAllVectorPlacement="FALSE"
            deleteAllBoundaryFences="FALSE"
            deleteAllJetways="FALSE"
            deleteAllControlTowers="FALSE"
            deleteAllDepartures="FALSE"
            deleteAllArrivals="FALSE"
            deleteAllPaintedElements="FALSE"
            deleteAllLightSupports="FALSE"
            deleteAllTaxiwaySigns="FALSE"
            deleteAllILSs="FALSE"
            deleteAllTerminalWaypoints="FALSE"
            deleteAllTerminalNDBs="FALSE"
            deleteAllProjectedMeshes="FALSE"
            deleteAllGLSs="FALSE"/>
    </Airport>
</FSData>


Thanks, John;

AFAIK, the XML code is identical for airports, Helipads and ExclusionRectangles in both MSFS 2020 and MSFS 2024 (...now). :)

I agree that deleteAllStarts="TRUE" should be FALSE, as this code allows CAM9 to render as a functioning aerodrome in MSFS.


There may be a more specific exclude attribute for the triangular Helipad symbol and its mapped texture on the floating dock.

I'll see if I can track down how MSFS 2020 created / placed that to see if we can find a more local exclude to use.

Otherwise all objects within the ExclusionRectangle may be excluded; but I'll plot the ExclusionRectangle in SBuilderX

UPDATE:

Here is the extent of coverage for the ExclusionRectangle at CAM9 using BING-MSVE imagery.

jarnie_cam9_exclusionrectangle_extent_bing-msve_imagery-jpg.100643


If that extent works OK with objects intended to be excluded, so be it.

I'll also be glad to test your package(s) after updated at flightsim.to.


PS: As you may already know, the Helipad marking for the CAM9 custom replacement floating dock needs a 'special' marking:

https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-s...-heliports-canadian-aviation-regulations-cars

https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-s...-canadian-aviation-regulations-cars#figure5_4


Google search query string:

Code: 
MSFS 2020 FATO containing a TLOF aiming point marking dashed white lines forming an equilateral triangle

Despite what Google AI says, IIUC, we must make our own dashed white lines forming an equilateral triangle around the "H".

This add-on might make that process easier:

https://flightsim.to/addon/57171/miscellaneous-material-library-01

GaryGB
 

Attachments

  • Jarnie_CAM9_ExclusionRectangle_Extent_BING-MSVE_Imagery.jpg
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GaryGB said:
AFAIK, the XML code is identical for airports, Helipads and ExclusionRectangles in both MSFS 2020 and MSFS 2024 (...now).
Click to expand...
Indeed it is.

The only way I found that I needed to add excludeallhelipads was in 2024 as Asobo had added an airport there when they didn't in 2020.

[added later]
I will also include the following in the readme for the updated version -

I have also removed the H01 helipad which Asobo added in 2024 as according to Marta Denel, Base Manager of Harbour Air YVR, “for the past 4-5 years it has just been used as a storage dock”. How about that for up to date information!
 
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It would seem that your goal is to make your CAM9 as true-to-life as possible; you have succeeded (mostly).

But your replacement floating dock has no land-able platform surface for those of us inclined to land helos on it.

I suppose those excluding a storage building from a (unused) CAM9 helipad can also make a platform on a dock. ;)


I also suppose the nearby Canadian Coast Guard Hovercraft base 'gets no ICAO' ?

(...for images)

Granted, there is no MSFS Hovercraft yet, with custom physics / fixed Altitude adapted from Astro One / Jetson A/C.

IMHO, a Hovercraft is technically another flying boat; it "flies" via Ground Effect.

But AFAIK, Asobo is busy building roads (and legacy-looking platform bridges) for a MSFS "driving sim" extension ?

GaryGB
 
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There are HEAPS of helipads at adjacent CYVR but only in 2024.
But you can always start a helicopter flight from a normal gate at CYVR in 2020 can't you?

And why can't you land on my floating dock with a helicopter as I thought you could land anywhere except in the water?

I am being pushed and pulled into concentrating on CAM9 for 2024 by converting the 2020 project to a 2024 project.

As I can place everything I need into a 2020 project maybe I will do that and release it working for 2020 or 2024 and include an optional 'supplement' package to populate the floating docks with simobjects (floatplanes) for 2024 'customers'. How does that sound?
 
jgarnold said:
There are HEAPS of helipads at adjacent CYVR but only in 2024.
Click to expand...

I went looking for Helipads in MSFS 2020 today, and had a hard time finding any at / near CYVR.

I had forgotten how few have actually been created for MSFS 2020 yet (been flying mostly MSFS 2024 lately). :oops:


jgarnold said:
But you can always start a helicopter flight from a normal gate at CYVR in 2020 can't you?
Click to expand...

Indeed; or I can just click anywhere on the MSFS Map and set it as a departure point.

jgarnold said:
And why can't you land on my floating dock with a helicopter as I thought you could land anywhere except in the water?
Click to expand...

To clarify this, the 'storage building' (which I see is a part of your CAM9 3D ModelLib), is on a Start location.

The Helipad which is on the next floating dock to the East, has no land-able platform or a Start location.

The underlying MSFS default floating dock which is currently visible, does have a land-able platform surface.


FYI: In a flight session already in progress, "Teleport" takes me to the CAM9 POI 'info' marker instead.


IIUC, that is intended to be the CAM9 airport water RWY "position and hold" location, or CAM9 ARP (mid-RWY axis) ?


I assume that behavior is likely to change when you issue an updated package for CAM9.


It may be interesting to use ADE20 to import CAM9 airport XML W.I.P. to see what it shows / offers versus SDK GUI. :scratchch

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/ade-2020-alpha-21-hf5.455259/post-934220


jgarnold said:
I am being pushed and pulled into concentrating on CAM9 for 2024 by converting the 2020 project to a 2024 project.

As I can place everything I need into a 2020 project maybe I will do that and release it working for 2020 or 2024 and include an optional 'supplement' package to populate the floating docks with simobjects (floatplanes) for 2024 'customers'. How does that sound?
Click to expand...

Please feel free to take your time, and do as you see fit; I'll appreciate what you have created at CAM9 either way. :)

I can create what I need for my own use; but I hope to offer constructive feedback to help CAM9 be its best for all.

GaryGB
 
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GaryGB said:
To clarify this, the 'storage building' (which I see is a part of your CAM9 3D ModelLib), is on a Start location.
Click to expand...
Yes there is a storage shed where I have one. If you checkout Google satellite view you will see a shed there and non on the adjacent floating dock which was a well worn H on it and I am just restating what my Harbour Air contact told me. Maybe they have placed a shed there since the last satellite image?

I have modelled the docks as best I can using the latest satelite image and if you compare my CAM9 to the satellite image you should see they 'match'.
 
I agree the aerial and street view imagery would not be as up to date as your communication with Sea Air might allude to.

If they put storage shelters on the (2) westernmost floating docks, it is reasonable they might also have done the same on their easternmost floating dock too.

If you plan to match IRL, you would obviously have no need for a platform on the top surface of the latter dock if you place the storage shelter on its surface at its Altitude AMSL.

Your 3d models do look very good at run time in MSFS. :-)

GaryGB
 
version 2.0 just uploaded to flightsim.to I think it takes a while for them to approve and make public
Also FYI I just ordered 32Gb DDR4 and will probably also upgrade to a rtx2080 11Gb both recommended for 2024. I know a chap into astronomy why has 192Gb RAM!
 
Thanks for posting "2.0".

I shall test it further tomorrow, but I continue to 'fall through' the replacement floating dock.

Also, I do not yet see the (intended ?) storage building on the replacement floating dock.

Possibly I did not follow the instructions properly for installation into my (dubious) MSFS 2024 Community folder ?

GaryGB
 
I have no idea what the storage building on the floating dock looks like. I received 2 replies from my contact and then they stopped making contact. I will try again. Maybe the storage is object which aren't tall unlike shed.
Are you trying to land a helicopter in 2020 or 2024?
 
Yes, I am attempting to land on the replacement floating dock, and I 'fall through' into the water under it.

Did you add a platform to the floating dock top surface to "harden it" for MSFS 2024 ?


Arno's ModelConverterX (aka "MCX") has a way to do this with MSFS 2024 3D models via the 'Attached Objects Editor'.

MCX' Auto platform function:

"When you want to add a platform that should follow the shape of your object there is another way
to add them however, using the Auto platform function. Pressing this button on the toolbar
brings up the Auto platform window, see Figure 6.25. In this editor you can select how much the
normal of the triangle should be pointing upwards (1) and optionally you can also specify that only
triangles with a specific texture should be considered. ModelConverterX will then make a platform
of all triangles that meet these filter conditions. So if for example you select your roof texture (*) and
an upwards value of 0.7 you can quickly make a platform of your roof.

1787031950647.png


Figure 6.25: Auto platform window

Since platforms for more complexly shaped objects can result in many platform attachpoints, the
Remove all platforms button in the toolbar of the attached object editor allows you to remove
all existing platforms at once.

(1) The value you enter here is the dot product of the triangle normal and the normal pointing upwards. A value
of 1.0 means the normal points upwards, while a value of 0.0 is a normal that points horizontal, and a value of -1.0
is a normal that points downwards. So a value of 1.0 selects only triangles that point exactly upwards. If you want
to select the triangles of a gabled roof you would have to use a lower value, for example around 0.7. If you select a
value that is too low, ModelConverterX might also select your walls as platform."

(*) NOTE: In the case of your ModelLib floating dock (former Helipad) object 01 of 13 total, the top texture is 'grey_planks'


I'm not certain what the equivalent function would be in Blender via the MSFS Exporter feature set.

GaryGB
 
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WIP. I have replicated this 'problem' of yours and don't know how to fix in Blender or MSFS and so have asked a question in mamu's discord hints and tips.
Don't worry I will fix it.

How did you download v2.0 as I just went to flightsim.to and it isn't listed yet
 
jgarnold said:
WIP. I have replicated this 'problem' of yours and don't know how to fix in Blender or MSFS and so have asked a question in mamu's discord hints and tips.
Don't worry I will fix it.

How did you download v2.0 as I just went to flightsim.to and it isn't listed yet
Click to expand...

This is the add-on page URL that came up in a Google search:

https://flightsim.to/addon/108906/vancouver-international-water-airport-cam9


The actual download URL used was via the add-on page link to the "update":

(My FireFox Download URL conveyed by flightsim.to)

https://cdn.alpha.flightsim.to/0027/VANCOUVER_INTERNATIONAL_WATER_AIRPORT_Hp5Qj.zip

Maybe the CDN has not propagated to NSW Australia's inter-web yet ? :scratchch

GaryGB
 
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Gary, please download and test the attached as I'm almost over this, takes too long for me to fly a helicopter.



BTW the link displays a cross next to MSFS2024 and I modified to show that it is suitable for both 2020 and 2024.
I will check again in the morning and if still the same try and correct it.
 
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