If someone buy your Scenery/Airplane and ask for refund.

jtanabodee

Resource contributor
#1
Hi,
I have got an email that a guy wants a refund that he did not satisfy with my ZBAA. He said the texture was not good and the fps was bad either. My computer is ten years old and it still can run ZBAA in FSX at fps more than 10. There is no prove that he will take the scenery out of his computer.
Will you get him a refund if someone does not satisfy with your product, without any problems happen to his Flight Sim Program?
Regards,
Tic
 

Heretic

Resource contributor
#3
What copy protection system are you using?

I got non-monetary refunds for three or four aircraft that cause unreasonably large impacts on framerate or other bugs, but only after having discussed the issue with the product support team. This was facilitated by the "active" copy protection system that checked license info against a server database.
 
#4
Hey TIC, How much money are We talking here, How many Complaints have You Recieved ?? It might be best to give Him a Refund, just to Shut Him Up !! Or as Heretic Suggests, offer to credit His Account Toward His Next Purchase . Bare in mind, that the Customer is ALWAYS Right !! - Johnman
 
#5
#6
The Customers Whom You Respect Their Privilege and Honor Their Loyalty, will come back, or at least Not become a Pimple on Your sales Record . Agreed, the Customer that becomes a persistent pain in the Butt, Dump Him !! - Johnman
 

=rk=

Resource contributor
#7
I would provide a refund, no questions asked. I don't care if they lie, they will never be able to honestly say that I didn't do all that was absolutely necessary to satisfy a customer. I understand that in this age of digital intellectual property, we intend to license an individual version of an exact copy of something already sold - kind of like what Ford does, except by changing a key slightly - but I know, if one sale is going to make or break me, I'm doing the wrong thing. The internet lets me feel like I will be successful, therefore I portray an image of magnanimity. Ultimately, I choose the high road, because the value of one sale does not even begin to equal the value of a reputation.
 

MOUSY

Resource contributor
#8
Rick has the best answer IMO. One sale won't hurt you. But one aggrieved customer going on an internet rant can.

If I've tried my best to sort out any issues that the customer may be having, and he or his system is not at fault, and the customer is still unsatisfied, then I generally issue a (sometimes partial) refund if they request it.

P.S: I've even gone so far as to generate custom files for customers who claimed that my models were bogging down their system. Maybe consider stripping the resource hogs from their version of the scenery. It may go some ways to appeasing them.
 
#9
I'll simply point out, that one sale can indeed break you. One sale, your product then put on a server for total free access in a country where you can't touch it... it will break your sales on that product. Might want to rethink that a bit. I speak from experience.
 

=rk=

Resource contributor
#10
I do not sell to pirates and pirates are not my customers. Pirates are a completely different life form, they will never "buy" no matter the security, they will not resell my scenery to reputable customers who would rather support my efforts and I am content with that.
 

jtanabodee

Resource contributor
#11
Thanks for all the opinions you have posted.
Actually money is not the first priority in my opinion. But this customer seems strange. Simmarket told me that all sale are final, no refund and he saw the screen shots before he bought it.
If the scenery cause some problems that I cannot solve, I will get him the refund instantly. No doubt about that.
So, I asked him to put his comment what I can do. Where I can improve my texture and the evidence of the poor fps. Since my computer is 12 years old and it still can run this airport in FSX with fps more than 10 under full traffic!
He still does not answer my e-mail. I will wait for the answer before refund. No problem with the money but I should get feed back for what is wrong before I do that.
I wiill get back the progress later.
 

jtanabodee

Resource contributor
#12
I'll simply point out, that one sale can indeed break you. One sale, your product then put on a server for total free access in a country where you can't touch it... it will break your sales on that product. Might want to rethink that a bit. I speak from experience.
We have discussed that before several time. Piracy is difficult to protect. I cannot do much and I don't give too much concern about that.

All the famous software in this world such as Windows, Photoshop, 3dsMax etc. are available through these piracy servers.

We are just a small guy in this world of software. They have full of programmers and knowledge but still cannot protect those piracy. I simply not to think about that at all.

What copy protection system are you using?
It is hard for scenery. Once you installed, you can copy all the things in the installed folder.

As for the refund, if there is no licensing protection, there is no refund. You can't ensure they're not trying to cheat you... and there are those who will do just that.
This customer is Chinese. I am ethnically Chinese too. I think I know what you mean.......
 
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MOUSY

Resource contributor
#13
I'll simply point out, that one sale can indeed break you. One sale, your product then put on a server for total free access in a country where you can't touch it... it will break your sales on that product. Might want to rethink that a bit. I speak from experience.
I get what you mean, I should have written "one refund can't hurt". If that one sale happens to be a cheat/pirate who decides to distribute your scenery, there is very little we can do to fight it, refund or not.
 
#15
Ultimately the decision is yours and you will make the right decision for you. I simply offered input based on personal experience. Despite what Mr. Keller believes, pirates do purchase software... and then give it away for free to others. Happens daily.
 

rhumbaflappy

Moderator
Staff member
Resource contributor
#16
Ultimately the decision is yours and you will make the right decision for you. I simply offered input based on personal experience. Despite what Mr. Keller believes, pirates do purchase software... and then give it away for free to others. Happens daily.
True enough. But regarding this refund, valid copy with registered owner equals refund. You're not going to be refunding this same copy over and over again. Just once, regardless if it was illegally obtained. I would even ask the customer exactly what improvements are needed to satisfy him. The more detailed explanation, the better. This way, you get some valuable criticism in exchange for the refund. In fact, I might ask for the detailed criticism before the refund is given. That would be fair enough.
 

gfxpilot

Resource contributor
#17
As a form retailer I can tell you that your in the grey area.
As stated - a cheat will demand their money back no matter what - If the description of the product (in this case the specification) is accurately based on the rig used / tested on and it works and you state that on 100% customised scenery on a rig with X capability 10FPS was achieved the caveat is "BASED ON". You cannot be responsible for a rig thats low graphic card (or none at all) where the processor is running all the graphics and sound through the same CPU. You can only state what it has achieved on the X specification.

Here we do not have what exactly is wrong with the graphics that the buyer complains about. Was the buyer expecting XBOX grade? If so, they are in cloud cuckoo land!

From my experience, irrespective your countries laws on selling etc you can ask them to be a little more clear about the issue found (there could actually be a problem that you dont know about or saw when testing - it does happen!) Work with you to identify and then if there is an issue provide a fist on table update straight to them. Looks nice and they feel they are important

Your stage is to say we want to "work with you" to identify what the problem is-

IF they come back and say Im getting 6FPS , and you state your getting 10 as a standard - then OK - there may be issues

Are they getting 6 on line or off line - because online chews the FPS as well because of the system updating especially on or near the ground. i.e. on finals

if they come back with flicker, holes, missing textures etc in places - where ???

As stated having been in the game for so long Ive had every excuse to get money back shot at me. If the scenery is doing what you say and this person is more of less saying that all they get is what you "advertised" then technically they are not entitled.

3 main things to consider.
  • Satisfactory quality Goods shouldn't be faulty or damaged when you sell them. You should ask what a reasonable person would consider satisfactory for the goods in question. For example, bargain-bucket products won’t be held to as high standards as luxury goods.
  • Fit for purpose The goods should be fit for the purpose they are supplied for, as well as any specific purpose before you agreed to sell the goods.
  • As described The goods supplied must match any description given by you, or any models or samples shown to you at the time of purchase.
If you done this OK its in your favour.

What have you charged (you dont need to tell us here) BUT, is it similar to professional scenery companies out there presently. If its more of less a couple of beers then is it worth fighting?
Give them the money back as "a gesture of goodwill". AND keep your good name and LEARN from it.

In the small print (font 5 :)) you can state that use after refund or distribution to any other party is considered "Piracy" . Basically dont use it (and unless you have licence checking protocols that isnt enforceable)

Bottom line - you can fight if your right and as stated above customers are always right (NO THEY ARE NOT!) - People only read T's and C's cursory I dare anyone to say they read ALL the terms of use before clicking through.

But, any customer who feels hard done by can post about you in so many places that could impact future sales of ANY product you create (and they know this).

Just revisit your product, revisit your advertising and check and recheck. Then in small print add in sold as seen.
 

jtanabodee

Resource contributor
#18
I would even ask the customer exactly what improvements are needed to satisfy him. The more detailed explanation, the better. This way, you get some valuable criticism in exchange for the refund. In fact, I might ask for the detailed criticism before the refund is given. That would be fair enough.
Yes, Dick. I am doing that but this customer never e-mail me back what I could improve.

What have you charged (you dont need to tell us here) BUT, is it similar to professional scenery companies out there presently. If its more of less a couple of beers then is it worth fighting?
Give them the money back as "a gesture of goodwill". AND keep your good name and LEARN from it.
No, gfxpilot, I am not fighting at all. He just let me how I can improve I will give him a full refund. Money to me is not the first priority, I am happy with 3d modelling. Funny is; this customer never e-mail me back. I think he could make money by pirating my scenery already, don't care about the refund now.
 

gfxpilot

Resource contributor
#19
We JT youve learned by it and your right not to fight all the time, pick the battle. Sadly if teh product is good and has no issues there is ALWAYS someone out there to try to take advantage. Good luck with further projects
 
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