Instant Scenery 3 problem

I purchased IS3 in November, 2013 and have used the program successfully on a large project until about a month ago. I would install objects from a library and some objects would be retained and others would not. This happened with only one particular library. I asked a friend to try that library and he had no problems. I decided to uninstall and reinstall the new IS3 update, version 3.1.
Now I can not edit (move or delete) the existing objects which amount to over 100 buildings and other misc objects. If I place a new object and save to the same scenerylist.bgl, then quit the program and restart within FSX, i'am able to edit the objects just placed but can not edit older objects.
Is there a limit as to how many objects can be stored or the size of the file.
To check the scenerylist file, I deleted the most recent and substituted a year old scenerylist file. Of course many objects were missing but not one object showing could be edited.
I hope someone can help solve this problem.
Thanks,
Zeb Gardner
 
Hi Zeb:

Possibly you have some "excludes" in the areas where your scenery objects are placed ...which prevent the scenery library objects from being displayed in FS ? :scratchch

[EDITED]

After making sure that there are no "excludes" in the areas where your scenery objects are placed ...which prevent the scenery library objects from being displayed in FS, one would next analyze what is going on with the scenery object placement BGL(s).

After analyzing what is going on with the scenery object placement BGL(s), one would next analyze what is going on with the scenery object library BGL(s).


As you may know, typically 3D scenery object MDLs are packaged without placement info inside a compiled BGL, referred to as a "scenery object library" BGL.

And one would typically "place" those 3D scenery objects in FS via IS3 by writing the Geographic coordinates / Heading / Altitude / Scale info ...inside another type of compiled BGL, referred to as a "scenery object placement" BGL.


When we "place" those 3D scenery library objects in FS by writing pertinent info into a "placement" BGL via IS3, we must right-click the ground to begin the "Save process" via:

IS3 right-click context menu > Add To File... ( [Save As] dialog pop up)

...and we are then prompted for the name of a BGL into which we intend to save the current selected object's "placement" info.


By default, IS3 proposes the name "InstantScenery.BGL" for one's first "placement" BGL used to save such "placement" info.

That default name "InstantScenery.BGL" will be submitted in:

IS3 right-click context menu > Add To File... [Save As] dialog > {File name} field


In the same dialog box, by default, IS3 also proposes to save "InstantScenery.BGL" ...into this folder location path:

[FS install path]\Addon Scenery\Scenery


FYI: By default IS3 picks that name and folder location path because [FS install path]\Addon Scenery\Scenery is always set "active" in the FS scenery library GUI (...and the linked Scenery.Cfg file).



We can also choose a different pre-existing or newly created file name, and we can choose a different pre-existing folder location path ...into which to save our "placement" info for the current selected object.


By default, IS3 'remembers' the name of the "placement" BGL file name and its folder path location we last used to save such "placement" info; that name will be submitted in:

IS3 right-click context menu > Add To File... > [Save As] dialog > {File name} field


Thus, IS3 remembers either the default "InstantScenery.BGL" file name and path, or any "custom" file name and path ...for the last "placement" BGL we used to save such "placement" info.


IS3 also allows us to "Open" only one pre-existing "placement" BGL at a time to Add / Edit object properties / Move / Delete ...its scenery library object "placement" info.



CAVEAT: When we exit FS, then re-start FS, by default, IS3 does NOT automatically reload and allow display of objects we have previously placed via IS3 ...as long as IS3 is "managing" those objects.


If we wish to allow display of objects we have previously placed via IS3, (...each and every time we re-start FS) we must:

1.) Manually launch IS3, then:

a.) "Open" each pre-existing "placement" BGL which is used to "place" objects at the flight locations in which we will be viewing scenery within our user aircraft


NOTE
: Those pre-existing "placement" BGLs must be manually loaded one at a time; after each is loaded, they all stay "active" during that FS session, but will NOT stay "active" after exiting FS.


Inconvenient ? ...YES ! :banghead:

...But there is a work-around for this. ;)



After completely finished working with a "placement" BGL to Add / Edit (object properties) / Move / Delete ...its scenery library object "placement" info, move it to a new folder path so that IS3 no longer knows its location, thus preventing IS3 from exerting continued "control" over object display for all objects placed via that "placement" BGL.

This effectively transfers "management" for the display of all objects "placed" via that BGL ...back to FS. :pushpin:



CAVEAT
: If you once more "Open" such a pre-existing "placement" BGL to Add / Edit object properties / Move / Delete for any scenery library object's "placement" info, and save any such changes to that BGL manually via the IS3 GUI, IS3 "knows-where-it-lives" again, and will resume taking exclusive "control" over object display for all objects placed via that "placement" BGL. :alert:


So, once again, one will be subject to this "inconvenient truth" about working with IS3: :(

When we exit FS, then re-start FS, by default, IS3 does NOT automatically reload and allow display of objects we have previously placed via IS3 ...as long as IS3 is "managing" those objects.


...And once again, we will be compelled to use our "work-around" for this: :idea:

After completely finished working with a "placement" BGL to Add / Edit (object properties) / Move / Delete ...scenery library object "placement" info, move it to a new folder path so that IS3 no longer knows its location, thus preventing IS3 from exerting continued "control" over object display for all objects placed via that "placement" BGL.



Hope this helps sort out the scenario you are troubleshooting; if you still have any ongoing issues after implementing the example "work-around" method with the problematic "placement" BGL(s), please let us know. :)

[END_EDIT]

GaryGB
 
Last edited:
Dear GaryGB,
I much appreciate your very detailed answer.
With this much information, I need to digest it.
Will be back in touch.
Thanks,Zeb
 
By default, IS3 'remembers' the name of the "placement" BGL file name and its folder path location we last used to save such "placement" info; that name will be submitted in:

IS3 right-click context menu > Add To File... > [Save As] dialog > {File name} field


Thus, IS3 remembers either the default "InstantScenery.BGL" file name and path, or any "custom" file name and path ...for the last "placement" BGL we used to save such "placement" info.


IS3 also allows us to "Open" only one pre-existing "placement" BGL at a time to Add / Edit object properties / Move / Delete ...its scenery library object "placement" info.


GaryGB
Excellent information GaryGB, as always, cheers mate!

Zeb,
I no longer use Instant Scenery because they rewarded my being an early customer by expecting me to pay again to use it in FSX-SE, while others who bought the product years later were given free upgrades.

But I used to use it a lot, and to be sure, make certain when you save that you know which .bgl it is going to be saved to, and don't keep saving everything to the same .bgl. It is better to break them up, even if they are all for the same area. Yes, it can get confusing as to which .bgl you need active to work with the objects in a particular project, but with a little thought ahead of time, it works out pretty good. Where it can make a huge difference is if you are sharing scenery with others, if they don't have as good of a system as you, a scenery .bgl with too many objects might become a slideshow for them. Whereas, if you break the project up into pieces, they can pick and choose what to use based on what they like, and what will run.

For example, project name/buildings/northside.bgl
project name/staticaircraft/northside.bgl
project name/trees/northside.bgl
project name/staticGSE/northside.bgl
You get the idea.

If you put everything on the same .bgl and the file somehow becomes corrupted, you lose everything.
Best to practice with the concept at a particular location and see what works best for you before applying it to all projects.
Cheers
Gman
 
Thanks, both of you for your replies.
I will answer your good advice as soon as I recover from cataract surgery.
Thanks for your patience.
Zeb
 
To GaryGB and Gman,
Thanks for taking the time to answer this problem. The initial problem of not being able to edit objects was solved when I discovered the scenerylist.bgl was misnamed.
Therefore IS could not locate the correct object to edit. GaryGB's tutorial certainly opened some insight into IS. I would make multiple scenerylist files if I was starting anew.
There is just too much at this stage to move over 200 items.
The remaining problem is a strange one. Contained in a vehicle library are about 15 WWII vehicle objects of which 3 are cletracs and bomb trailers. These 3 objects will place just fine and will stay in place when you exit and re-enter IS. But when you exit FSX and re-enter these 3 object are not in view. When you open IS the objects are still not in view. When you open your default scenerylist.bgl from the IS menu, they show up. These objects stay in view so long as you do not exit FSX. The default scenerylist.bgl resides in this path: Addon Scenery>Pyote_IS>scenery>pyote_kypt_IS3_scenerylist.bgl. Pyote_IS is registered in the FSX scenery Library.
I have re-installed IS and the library with no difference. My partner in this project, Sidney Schwartz, has run the library on his FSX system with no problem. It remains on my system and possibly a FSX corruption. It seems that the default scenerylist.bgl is not being fully processed in the initial boot to FSX. Why would a second opening of that file bring in the objects?
Would appreciate any suggestions.
Zeb
 
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/instant-scenery-3-problem.434898/#post-720714

Contained in a vehicle library are about 15 WWII vehicle objects of which 3 are cletracs and bomb trailers. These 3 objects will place just fine and will stay in place when you exit and re-enter IS. But when you exit FSX and re-enter these 3 object are not in view. When you open IS the objects are still not in view. When you open your default scenerylist.bgl from the IS menu, they show up. These objects stay in view so long as you do not exit FSX.
Hi Zeb:

As explained in my post above, IS3 is working the way it is (currently) programmed to: by managing any scenery object placement BGL it "knows about", whenever IS3 has:

* created the BGL

* edited the BGL

* opened the BGL for either editing

* opened the BGL to simply allow display of objects placed by the BGL


http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/instant-scenery-3-problem.434898/#post-720714

The default scenerylist.bgl resides in this path: Addon Scenery>Pyote_IS>scenery>pyote_kypt_IS3_scenerylist.bgl. Pyote_IS is registered in the FSX scenery Library.

I have re-installed IS and the library with no difference. My partner in this project, Sidney Schwartz, has run the library on his FSX system with no problem. It remains on my system and possibly a FSX corruption. It seems that the default scenerylist.bgl is not being fully processed in the initial boot to FSX. Why would a second opening of that file bring in the objects?
Would appreciate any suggestions.
Zeb
Again, IS3 is working the way it is (currently) programmed to: by managing any scenery object placement BGL it "knows about"

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/instant-scenery-3-problem.434898/#post-719833

CAVEAT: When we exit FS, then re-start FS, by default, IS3 does NOT automatically reload and allow display of objects we have previously placed via IS3 ...as long as IS3 is "managing" those objects.


If we wish to allow display of objects we have previously placed via IS3, (...each and every time we re-start FS) we must:

1.) Manually launch IS3, then:

a.) "Open" each pre-existing "placement" BGL which is used to "place" objects at the flight locations in which we will be viewing scenery within our user aircraft


NOTE
: Those pre-existing "placement" BGLs must be manually loaded one at a time; after each is loaded, they all stay "active" during that FS session, but will NOT stay "active" after exiting FS.

Inconvenient ? ...YES ! :banghead:

...But there is a work-around for this. ;)



After completely finished working with a "placement" BGL to Add / Edit (object properties) / Move / Delete ...its scenery library object "placement" info, move it to a new folder path so that IS3 no longer knows its location, thus preventing IS3 from exerting continued "control" over object display for all objects placed via that "placement" BGL.

This effectively transfers "management" for the display of all objects "placed" via that BGL ...back to FS. :pushpin:
CAUTION: Every time you "Open" such a pre-existing "placement" BGL to Add / Edit object properties / Move / Delete / allow IS3 to display objects 'placed' by the BGL, IS3 "knows-where-it-lives" again, and will resume taking exclusive "control" over object display for all objects placed via that "placement" BGL. :alert:


So, once again, one will be subject to this "inconvenient truth" about working with IS3: :(

When we exit FS, then re-start FS, by default, IS3 does NOT automatically reload and allow display of objects we have previously placed via IS3 ...as long as IS3 is "managing" those objects.


...And once again, we will be compelled to use our "work-around" for this. :idea:

After completely finished working with "The default scenerylist.bgl" which "resides in this path":

Addon Scenery\Pyote_IS\scenery\pyote_kypt_IS3_scenerylist.bgl


1.) Create a new folder with a slightly different name ex:

Addon Scenery\Pyote_IS_NEW\scenery\pyote_kypt_IS3_scenerylist.bgl


2.) Now:

a.) Move pyote_kypt_IS3_scenerylist.bgl to that new folder path so that IS3 no longer knows its location

b.) Add that new folder location for pyote_kypt_IS3_scenerylist.bgl to the FSX scenery Library so it is "active".

c.) Save your changes, exit FS, and re-start FS.


Hopefully this may help resolve the situation.:)

GaryGB
 
Last edited:
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/instant-scenery-3-problem.434898/#post-720714

The initial problem of not being able to edit objects was solved when I discovered the scenerylist.bgl was misnamed.
Therefore IS could not locate the correct object to edit.

I would make multiple scenerylist files if I was starting anew.

There is just too much at this stage to move over 200 items.
IIUC, you have all your object "placement" info for multiple project locations inside a single "scenerylist.bgl" file ? :scratchch


The goal of dividing your single 'placement' BGL into multiple 'placement' BGLs (ex: 1 for each project area) ...can easily be achieved via:

1.) de-compile your "scenerylist.bgl" file into a XML file

2.) create multiple copies of that "scenerylist.XML" file, re-named for each of your different project locations

3.) edit each "your location_name_scenerylist.XML" file based on Latitude and/or Longitude of object placements

a.) delete object placements un-related to each different project location for each such re-named XML file

b.) double-check for errors


4.) Re-compile each "your location_name_scenerylist.XML" file into a working BGL with FS SDK BGLComp

5.) Move the re-compiled working "your location_name_scenerylist.BGL" files into a "active" \Scenery sub-folder

a.) Be sure that IS3 does not "know" the new location of those BGLs by not opening, and not saving any changes into them, so FS can load them


6.) If you do open those BGL files again with IS3 (to Add / Edit object properties / Move / Delete and have manually saved any 'changes' to that BGL via the IS3 GUI), or you otherwise need to enable display of objects 'placed' by that BGL) ...you must move them again to stop IS3 from "managing" them.


Hope this helps a bit more. :)

GaryGB
 
Last edited:
My partner in this project, Sidney Schwartz, has run the library on his FSX system with no problem. It remains on my system and possibly a FSX corruption.
Just a thought, but you might verify that your Scenery/Scenery Objects settings in FSX are the same as Sidney's. Scenery Complexity slider should probably be set to a minimum of Dense.


Cheers
Gman
 
Excuse me for interrupting...

Is this something new for IS3? I have never had to do it with IS2.

cheers,
Lane
Please note the recent edit to my latter post immediately above regarding this scenario of "Opening" a BGL in IS3.

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/posts/720804


I am traveling at the moment, and will be better able to reply to this question later today

<I'm currently limited to using a "Smart Phone" ...with a 'low I.Q.'> ;)


[EDITED <...on a 'real' computer>]

IIRC, both IS2 and IS3 are indeed able to "Open" a placement BGL without enforcing any ongoing "Management" practices of Instant Scenery (aka "IS") onto the objects placed by that BGL ...if (and IIRC, only if), one has NOT manually saved any 'changes' to that BGL via the IS version 2 or 3 GUI (ex: edits to an objects properties, or to ADD / MOVE / DELETE objects etc.).


On a practical basis, however, I believe one might reasonably ask why would one even be "Opening" a BGL in ex: IS2, unless that BGL was already being "managed" by IS (and objects under its control therefore needed to have their display enabled), or one intended for that BGL to become "managed" by IS subsequent to having manually saved any 'changes' to that BGL via the IS version 2 GUI.


Please correct me if my memory of IS2 functionality is imprecise on this point, as it has been a while since I last used that version, but IIRC, only IS3 (and not IS2) ...allows one to "Move the aircraft to the selected object" in order to display a scenery object where it has been "placed".

If that were the case then one might still wonder why would one even be "Opening" a BGL in ex: IS2, and wishing to exit without having manually saved any 'changes' to that BGL via the IS2 GUI ...unless that BGL was already being "managed" by IS and needed display to be toggled "on" for objects placed by that BGL . o_O


Was there another scenario you may be alluding to, which compelled you to pose this question in an ongoing help thread specifically regarding IS3 ? :scratchch

[END_EDIT]

GaryGB
 
Last edited:
For GaryGB and all interested.
To Gman: Scenery complexity does not help.

Removing IS management did not help.
This is what I did:
With IS3 open, I placed some new objects.
Saved to default Pyote_IS > scenery > pyote_kypt_IS3_scenerylist.bgl.
Exit IS3, Exit FSX
Created Pyote_IS_ New folder with scenery and texture sub-folders.
Moved pyote_kypt_IS3.scenerylist.bgl from default location to Pyote_IS_New > scenery.
Opened FSX.
Placed Pyote_IS_New in FSX Scenery Library.
Go to KYPT airport.
New objects show but missing bomb trailer objects do not.
Go to IS3 menu > Object List. This list is blank.
Go to IS3 menu > Open. Find default scenerylist in the newly created Pyote_IS_New folder.
Load bgl. into IS3. Right away the missing object show.
Go to IS3 menu > Object List. List is full of objects.
This, I believe, is a fault of the IS program. Failure to properly load default scenerylist.bgl
because IS3 is still in control of the objects.
Why is it that I can send the scenerylist.bgl to a friend and he has no problems with FSX loading the file?
Thanks for your interest.
Zeb
 
Is Pyote_IS_New at the top of the Scenery Library? If not, move it to the top and test.

Are there any other .bgl files in Pyote_IS_New\scenery? If so, move them out and test.

Is the object library for the missing objects in Pyote_IS_New?

Is there by chance more than one copy of the object library in any active scenery folders?

Is it possible that the missing objects are in more than one object library?

My experience is with IS2, so IS3 may be different.

With IS2, after a fresh FSX start and then starting IS2, there is no files under IS control until you open one in IS.

IIUC, when you open a file in IS that file is disabled in FSX, which is why you get the scenery reloading progress bar.

The objects that are placed in that file are seen in FSX because IS displays them in sort of an overlay that FSX is not really aware of.

Due to how this all works it would be possible to place objects in the active IS file in an area that is covered by an exclusion rectangle in another file. Since FSX doesn't know about the objects in the active IS file the objects will be seen in the sim. When you then restart the sim and what was the active IS file is now seen by FSX, the objects will not be seen in the sim because of the exclusion rectangles.

Also, if the missing objects are in more than one object library (with the same GUID) it is possible that FSX is reading the models from a different library than the one you used in IS. If that second library does not have the textures for those objects they will not show up in the sim unless you are using DX10 Demo Mode.

If you don't use DX10 mode, you could turn it on for a quick test to see if the objects show up. If they do, they won't look right as the will be covered by a blueish texture file named bkg.bmp that you can find in the root FSX folder.

Hopefully that is clearer than mud and helps you sort this out.

cheers,
Lane
 
Lane,
Thanks for your reply.
Pyote_IS _New is at the top. No other files are in that folder.
The object library containing the missing objects is in its own folder and registered in FSX Scenery Library.
There are no duplicates.
These missing objects were placed in various locations over the project so being covered by exclusion rectangles is not likely.
A test in DX-10 mode does nothing to show the missing objects.

Time after time I restart FSX with same result.
If I have added objects previous to shut down, FSX goes through a loading data process.
Upon entering the project the missing objects are not there, but the newly placed object are showing.
Open IS3 and then go to IS menu > Object List and it is blank.
Go to IS menu > Open and load in the only scenerylist.bgl listed and magic...the missing objects show.
Got to IS menu > Object List and it is full of objects.
This is basically the problem.
Why does FSX and IS3 not process the scenerylist.bgl properly in the first place?
Zeb
 
Time after time I restart FSX with same result.
If I have added objects previous to shut down, FSX goes through a loading data process.
Upon entering the project the missing objects are not there, but the newly placed object are showing.
Open IS3 and then go to IS menu > Object List and it is blank.
Go to IS menu > Open and load in the only scenerylist.bgl listed and magic...the missing objects show.
Got to IS menu > Object List and it is full of objects.
This is basically the problem.
Why does FSX and IS3 not process the scenerylist.bgl properly in the first place?
Zeb
I still have no concrete answer for the missing objects.

As for IS not automatically opening a file at IS first start, why should it?

ADE does not automatically open a file when you first start it, either does Word, Photoshop or GMax.

Most people that I know of that use IS do not put all of their objects in one file.

I have built airports with six or seven IS files, all for one airport. If during that process IS opened the wrong file repeatedly and I had to wait for the scenery to reload when trying to open another file, I would think that a major waste of time.

Where did you get these missing objects? Are they something you made yourself?

cheers,
Lane
 
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