• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

    • Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
    • Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
    • Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
    • Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
    • Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
    • Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.

    Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.

    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

MSFS Is there a limit on number of scenery objects which can be compiled?

scruffyduck

Administrator
Staff member
FSDevConf team
Resource contributor
Messages
33,839
Country
unitedkingdom
ADE uses a calculation based on the object bounding box to position the rotation handle. This calculation needs updating but I have not had time to do that yet. So you might change the position of the handle if you modify the model but it does not rely on the reference point as I recall. Dragging the handle will rotate the object around the reference (0,0) point of the object so moving that may well affect the way the object rotates.
 
Messages
418
Country
australia
Ok that makes sense as to why on some of my larger models (houses), although I move the rotation point in Blender, the so called handle in ADE doesn’t change whilst smaller items such as a fence does. I know what I mean even if no one else does :laughing:
 
Messages
681
Country
australia
REVELATION - PLEASE READ
I have just proved that having a 'light' in the Blender project affects where the 'handle' is displayed in ADE for a scenery object.
Refer to image below.
The scenery object at the top DOES have a 'light' in the Blender project - note the handle bottom left of footprint
The scenery object at the bottom does NOT have a 'light' in the Blender project - note the handle near the centre of the footprint which making rotating a little more difficult
Maybe its coincidental - your thoughts?

HANDLE.jpg
 
Messages
418
Country
australia
Lol the first thing I did in Blender was delete the camera and light (because they’re superfluous to creating the models for MSFS) and saved the default Blender setup
 
Messages
681
Country
australia
I am now wondering if there is anything I can do with my Blender models which affects the footprint displayed in ADE.

I have a number of variants to my floating dock (9 metres x 3 metres) and the footprint displayed in ADE is just about exactly the same 'size' as the actual scenery object - this is great.
I have also created a 'rusty' pole which has a dimension of 4 metres high and 30cm in diameter yet the footprint shown in ADE is HUGE. Yet I created both scenery objects.

Refer to image below. The footprint for the poles are those very large squares and the small rectangular footprints are for each floating dock.

When I have a number of scenery objects close together they overlap and so hard to keep track of and as such if there is something I can do in Blender it would be great.

FOOTPRINTS.jpg
 

rhumbaflappy

Administrator
Staff member
Resource contributor
Messages
4,658
Country
us-wisconsin
I think a light's footprint is the bounds extent of the lighting, not the pole it sits on.
 
Messages
6,553
Country
us-illinois
Hello:

I noticed this unusual location of the "handle" used to manipulate orientation of 3D models via ADE's GUI when working with Alpha-19.

I always used Instant Scenery in FS2Kx versions of FS prior to P3Dv4.x, so did not notice this issue when ADE implemented 2D footprints.


In ADE-19 for MSFS-2020, I placed 'Generic_Hangar12' at a known location as a Q+D place-holder for a future hangar soon to be built IRL.


I was subsequently baffled why a "handle" used to manipulate 3D model Heading in ADE was:

* Positioned physically too close to the 3D model (within the area of its derived 2D footprint ...rather than visibly offset to its "Front" Face)

...and:

* Positioned opposite to its Left (South) 3D Face ...rather than its "Front" Face (we need to know a 3D model's "Front" to set its Heading ;))


Here are some screenshots illustrating what I encountered working with this particular default Asobo default MSFS-2020 3D model via ADE:

ade_alpha-19_msfs-2020_generic_bgl_gen_hangar12_xml_heading-jpg.74664



And, of course, I was also baffled why Asobo would utilize 3D models oriented in a way that is IIUC, not MS DirectX Direct3D compliant. :scratchch

Thankfully, Jon already implemented a "-180 degree" fix in ADE for Asobo's arbitrary 3D model Axis 'preference' when placing Windsocks. :wizard:


Although I recall reading that Asobo had changed the 3D world Axis assignment from the Microsoft DirectX standard used by MS' FS SDKs (reportedly based on Asobo's arbitrary preference for a 3D modeling application using a different 'option' for 3D Axis orientation than Direct3D), :banghead:







[EDITED]

NOTE: MCX imports, interprets, and renders the 3D model in Asobo's arbitrary orientation with:

* 'Front' Face oriented to a Cartesian Coordinate System 'Heading' of 270 Degrees (West aka "X-"); AFAIK this is NOT aka "Facing the Camera"

[END_EDIT]

mcx_v15_april_5_2021_msfs-2020_generic_bgl_gen_hangar12_object_axes_orientation-jpg.74672


mcx_v15_april_5_2021_msfs-2020_generic_bgl_gen_hangar12-jpg.74668




Notice in MCX, 3D model BoundingBox unit sizes compared to positioning of the "handle" used to manipulate 3D model orientation in ADE.

mcx_v15_april_5_2021_msfs-2020_generic_bgl_gen_hangar12_object_info-jpg.74671



Although Sketchup renders via OpenGL, a MCX Collada *.DAE export of Asobos' 3D model is compatibly oriented for MS' DirectX Direct3D: :pushpin:

FYI: Sketchup renders 3D models using a left-handed coordinate system.


[EDITED]

(NOTE: Corrected screenshot showing a MCX Collada *.DAE export with *.DDS- converted to *.PNG- texture Materials for Sketchup display)

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...s-and-their-altitude-point.353776/post-548995


sketchup_mcx_collada_dae_export_msfs-2020_generic_bgl_gen_hangar12_png-jpg.74684

[END_EDIT]


MSFS-2020 render of Asobo's "Generic_Hangar12" placed with a manually assigned heading via ADE-19.

msfs-2020_generic_bgl_gen_hangar12-jpg.74670



AFAIK, in MS-FS (including FS2Kx versions), all 3D objects "should" be modeled by 3D modeling applications ...in this way; :teacher: :duck:

* DirectX Direct3D compliant and compatible with all existing MS-FS SDK standards, using a left-handed coordinate system:

* 3D volume base on ground plane, and Central Datum (aka "Origin") centered on the Origin of Axes in 3D modeling application's work-space

* 'Front' Face oriented to a Cartesian Coordinate System 'Heading' of 0 Degrees (North aka "Y+"); AFAIK this is aka "Facing the Camera"


I hope this helps with better understanding what one may see working with the current build of ADE-19 :).

I also hope this helps with better understanding what one may see working with the current build of Asobo's 3D models :alert:.

GaryGB
 

Attachments

  • ADE_Alpha-19_MSFS-2020_Generic_bgl_Gen_Hangar12_XML_Heading.jpg
    ADE_Alpha-19_MSFS-2020_Generic_bgl_Gen_Hangar12_XML_Heading.jpg
    224.1 KB · Views: 52
  • MCX_v15_April_5_2021_MSFS-2020_Generic_bgl_Gen_Hangar12.jpg
    MCX_v15_April_5_2021_MSFS-2020_Generic_bgl_Gen_Hangar12.jpg
    406.7 KB · Views: 40
  • MSFS-2020_Generic_bgl_Gen_Hangar12.jpg
    MSFS-2020_Generic_bgl_Gen_Hangar12.jpg
    659.1 KB · Views: 40
  • MCX_v15_April_5_2021_MSFS-2020_Generic_bgl_Gen_Hangar12_Object_Info.jpg
    MCX_v15_April_5_2021_MSFS-2020_Generic_bgl_Gen_Hangar12_Object_Info.jpg
    446 KB · Views: 43
  • MCX_v15_April_5_2021_MSFS-2020_Generic_bgl_Gen_Hangar12_Object_Axes_Orientation.jpg
    MCX_v15_April_5_2021_MSFS-2020_Generic_bgl_Gen_Hangar12_Object_Axes_Orientation.jpg
    278 KB · Views: 40
  • Sketchup_MCX_Collada_DAE_Export_MSFS-2020_Generic_bgl_Gen_Hangar12_PNG.jpg
    Sketchup_MCX_Collada_DAE_Export_MSFS-2020_Generic_bgl_Gen_Hangar12_PNG.jpg
    196.8 KB · Views: 36
Last edited:
Messages
681
Country
australia
Mine is a pole though with NOT lighting. I just don't understand that the footprint for a 9 metre X 3 metre dock be a small rectangle but the footprint for a pole 30 cm in diameter be such a large square and much larger than the one for the dock.

Thanks GaryGB for your input although some of it 'going over my head' :confused: So it seems I cannot do anything to my models in Blender to address that.
I have been resorting to using edit > heading to change orientation.
Strangely models from 'dave sea plane base' (obtainable at https://flightsim.to/file/5806/fisherman-dave-s-seaplane-base-object-library) shows the handle at a 'good' distance from the footprint BUT HEY notice where the 'red dot' (don't know the correct terminology) is placed on the footprint (see image below). That red dot is in the centre of the footprint of my models. Could that be a clue?

daves.jpg
 
Messages
6,553
Country
us-illinois
The Red circle in ADE is the placement marker for the 3D model's central datum (aka "Reference Point" aka "Ref.Pt.")

The Orange circle outlined in Black is the "handle" used to manually rotate a 3D model's Heading when placed in ADE's GUI.

AFAIK, the footprint shown above for "dave's sea plane base dock" is likely to have been 3D modeled with its central datum where its Ref.Pt. is positioned within its derived 2D footprint BoundingBox ...as seen in the ADE GUI.

IIUC, this can be be confirmed by importing "dave's sea plane base dock" 3D model and viewing it ...in MCX.

GaryGB
 
Last edited:
Messages
681
Country
australia
Thanks Gary. Maybe then if I place the central datum 'off centre' in Blender. I have only ever placed the central datum a little above the base of my docks so that they automatically are buried in the water to allow for the troughs where there are wave effects. I will give that a try and report back.

I must be looking at the wrong thing in Blender as moving my model away from what I considered to be the central datum made no difference ie
datum.jpg
 
Last edited:
Messages
681
Country
australia
I have found in Blender there is the central reference point called called the Origin (you can see it in the image above as a small orange dot on the far right of the dock. The object can be moved away from this however that is point represented as the red dot you can see in the image from ADE and so will then appear away from the footprint with almost disastorous effect when attempt to reorient the object and so does not help.
I think I will just put up with a handle not in the optimum position. Too many more important things to do.
 
Messages
6,553
Country
us-illinois
John:

I recommend that you attach- or link to a download URL for- a ZIP of your 3D model with all mapped textures, so that meaningful analysis and troubleshooting can be achieved, ;)

That- and this discussion thread as a whole- may provide useful info to Jon and Arno in improving the 2D derivation of footprints for use in ADE ...in future builds. :idea:

GaryGB
 
Messages
177
Country
finland
I have found in Blender there is the central reference point called called the Origin (you can see it in the image above as a small orange dot on the far right of the dock. The object can be moved away from this however that is point represented as the red dot you can see in the image from ADE and so will then appear away from the footprint with almost disastorous effect when attempt to reorient the object and so does not help.
I think I will just put up with a handle not in the optimum position. Too many more important things to do.
You can move the Origin to the center of your object in Blender. I am not at my computer now, but I think that you have to go into edit mode, then select everything with A and then you find the origin movement in Mesh ... Transform. Not sure that I remember the process correctly...
 
Messages
177
Country
finland
Actually the best point for the origin would be the center of the bottom of your object. Just select the bottom part of the object and then as above.
 
Messages
177
Country
finland
If you need to move the origin outside of your object, then just grab everything in edit mode and move it in top view to the desired place.
 
Messages
681
Country
australia
Thanks WildLynxPilot. I am ok with moving the origin and have now done it but it did not solve the issue I had (with the position of the 'handle' for footprints.
 
Messages
6,553
Country
us-illinois
John:

I recommend that you attach- or link to a download URL for- a ZIP of your 3D model with all mapped textures, so that meaningful analysis and troubleshooting can be achieved, ;)

That- and this discussion thread as a whole- may provide useful info to Jon and Arno in improving the 2D derivation of footprints for use in ADE ...in future builds. :idea:

GaryGB

In what format Gary? A glTF, Bin and XML + textures?

Yes, *.glTF, *.BIN and *.XML with all mapped texture Materials, as well as all the Blender source project files used ...for the specific 3D model in question. ;)

FYI: When 3D models are imported into MCX, MCX' Material Editor dialog {Textures} tab lists all mapped texture Materials used. :pushpin:

GaryGB
 
Last edited:
Top