MCX Texture Format Change

[frankturley]

I am using MCX to reconstruct a scenery object from FSX, ready to insert into my Airport Design Editor for MSFS2020. Having loaded the object from the FSX BGL file, I can use the Export Scenery function in MCX to create the .gltf, .bin and .xml files, and I can use the Textures tab of the model editor function to create the texture files in a .jpg format, from their .DDS files. However, when I try to create the new object using the ADE Model Manager, it ignores the .jpg files, and only works with the .DDS files, which results in an object with a deformed image. I notice that when I load the image in MCX it still uses the .DDS texture files, is there a means of telling MCX to use the .JPG files?

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Frank:

AFAIK, technically MSFS 2020 as a 3D world rendering engine is 'supposed' to allow display of generic Kronos-specification glTF version 2.0 format files when either of several texture image file formats are used as mapped Materials ...provided they are NOT PBR texture Materials.

IIUC, the MSFS-2020 compiler requires use of 3D models with either *.PNG or *.JPG as mapped Materials ...when PBR textures are used.

The MSFS-2020 compiler will internally convert *.PNG or *.JPG into a newer form of *.DDS as mapped PBR Materials on glTF 3D models.


When MCX outputs 3D models as glTF format, it can use either legacy non-PBR, or PBR glTF Material formats, depending on MCX Options we set.

[EDITED]

Please refer to the MCX documentation in:

[MCX install path]\ModelConverterX.pdf

[END_EDIT]

In MCX Material Editor {Textures} tab, before converting textures, we must select a path to an intended output MSFS project \Texture sub-folder.


You may wish to review some of this info to become more familiar with MCX Options that toggle MSFS use of PBR texture Materials for output:

Of particular note is this thread:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/non-pbr-texture-exportation-for-msfs.452818/


Other related search results:

https://www.google.com/search?q=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+MSFS+2020++ModelConverterX+MCX+Options+"is+PBR+material"&biw=1120&bih=551&ei=gV0qYZiqKNTatQaCkI7YDg&oq=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+MSFS+2020++ModelConverterX+MCX+Options+"is+PBR+material"&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EANKBAhBGAFQ5q4CWOauAmCtswJoAXAAeACAAVOIAVOSAQExmAEAoAECoAEBwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwjY7q6Ki9TyAhVUbc0KHQKIA-sQ4dUDCA4&uact=5


https://www.google.com/search?q=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+MSFS+2020++ModelConverterX+MCX+PBR+Options&source=hp&ei=yTUqYe63K8f0tAbm2JqYCQ&iflsig=ALs-wAMAAAAAYSpD2Z41ei6Q8_gx8HoJDaCNyN0pKbD0&oq=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+MSFS+2020++ModelConverterX+MCX+PBR+Options&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAM6CAgAEOoCEI8BOgsILhCxAxCDARCTAjoLCC4QgAQQxwEQrwE6DgguEIAEELEDEMcBEKMCOggILhCABBCxAzoOCC4QgAQQsQMQxwEQ0QM6BQgAEIAEOggIABCABBCxAzoFCC4QgAQ6CwguEIAEEMcBENEDOgsIABCABBCxAxCDAToRCC4QgAQQsQMQxwEQowIQkwJQhSxYx_wCYKGHA2gCcAB4AYABhQKIAeolkgEHNDIuMTAuMZgBAKABAaABArABCg&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwiuwPSZ5dPyAhVHOs0KHWasBpMQ4dUDCAk&uact=5



Regarding the *.DDS mapped Material distortion, please post a screenshot in your edited post above, so Arno can advise you better.

IIRC, there were a few reports of distorted *.DDS textures with MCX exported 3D models using Batched Draw Calls via MCX "Draw Call Minimizer" (aka "Draw Call Optimizer") feature, when those MCX outputs were re-imported into MCX and/or other 3D modeling applications.

If that latter option is used, we would want UVW texture mapping generated by MCX as a texture sheet / texture atlas to be performed in such a way that they can be read in a industry standard format by MCX and/or other 3D modeling applications.

[EDITED]

PS: To create a screenshot (aka "screen capture"):

1.) With your application of interest showing the texture distortion on screen

2.) On the keyboard, press / hold <Shift > key then press / release <PrtScreen> key

3) Windows Start > Programs > Windows Accessories > launch MS Paint

4.) Click in MS Paint work-space > on keyboard, press / hold <Shift > key and press / release < V> key (screen capture appears in Paint work-space)

5.) In MS Paint pull-down menu > Save As > Save As dialog > set: Save as type: JPEG (*.JPG, *.JPEG, *.JPE, *.JFIF) > enter: file name > [Save] button

6.) In FSDeveloper forum, click on "EDIT" under your existing post above, and you will be in 'Edit' mode

7.) Click [Attach Files] button

8.) Browse to ex: C:\Users\{user name}\Pictures (or wherever you saved your *.JPG screenshot) > Select its filename > click: [Open] button

9.) FS Developer forum editor should now attach your screenshot to your post.


Feel free to inquire further if you require any assistance.

[END_EDIT]

GaryGB

 

[frankturley]

Hi Gary,

Thank you for your response, I'm afraid I rather quickly got lost in the technicalities. Perhaps I should try to explain the problem more carefully.

I have successfully transferred FSX objects into MSFS via the User Object Manager in Airport Design Editor. I achieved this by using MCX to create the .gltf, .bin and .xml files, and then taking the results plus the .DDS texture files into the objects MDL folder, the UOM in ADE does the rest. This works for all objects I have tried, but when viewed in MSFS, those objects with complex - e.g. multi-coloured - textures have a corrupted appearance.

So I thought that if perhaps I changed the source from .DDS to .JPG, I might have the solution. I found I could use the MCX Material Editor to make the .JPG files, but I haven't fathomed out how to tell the object to use the .JPG files, rather than the .DDS files. My question was therefore (a) Is this possible, and if so, how?

Frank.

 

[GaryGB]

Arno will, of course, be best qualified to answer that question.

IMHO, it will be helpful to the troubleshooting process if we clarify the terminology used here.

MSFS does have a FSX Compatibility Mode which can display legacy 3D models in the "MDL" format.

But you describe an intent to use glTF format 3D models.

Would you please further explain what you meant by:

"using MCX to create the .gltf, .bin and .xml files, and then taking the results plus the .DDS texture files into the objects MDL folder"


And please see my edits above if you are not yet familiar with how to attach a screenshot.

Attaching a screenshot of mapped texture Material distortion may prove useful to both Arno and Jon if MCX or ADE require troubleshooting.

GaryGB

 

[frankturley]

Hi Gary,

Until I acquired MSFS2020 recently I had used ADE to create a simple airfield and MCX to view object libraries. Now I am trying to create my simple airfield in MS2020, and ADE allowed me to copy the project across, but the objects were not compatible, so I deleted them, and now I am trying to re-create them in the new format.

ADE has a "User Module Manager Tool", and this takes suitable input files stored in the folder [ProjectName]/PackageSources/[ProjectAuthor]-[ICAOCode]-[AirportName]-modelLib and creates an ADE model, which may be added to the airfield. This is the object model folder I previously referred to. The files are the .bin, .gltf and .xml as exported by MCX; inside a sub-folder (texture) of that folder are the texture files.

I am attaching screen shots from FS2020, FSX and MCX, so you can see the visual corruption of the image in FS2020.

 

[=rk=]

The particular distortion you refer to, appears to be a vertical reversal, that often occurs when working with .dds textures. You may find that by simply flipping the textures you have and continuing the procedure you use, the model will appear as expected.

I believe your attempt to substitute .jpg format textures, would require you to first assign them to the model in MCX, then export the model with that assignment, then continue with your procedure. About this I may be mistaken, but I am pretty sure just flipping the textures you have, then running your process again, will produce a useable model.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Frank:

[FSX / P3D install path]\Scenery\Global\Scenery\vehicles_land.bgl VEH_tractorCab02 is a FSX / P3D MDL format source, which does not use PBR texture Materials.

To view this properly in MCX, toggle the icon toolbar "Red Teapot" off to disable the 'Complex Shader' mode in MCX 3D preview.

To see a MCX "preview" of how this 3D model 'may' display at run time in MSFS, toggle the MCX icon toolbar "Red Teapot" on.

IIUC, unless you substitute new texture Materials in PBR format and map them as replacments via the MCX GUI, this- and all other non-PBR textured 3D models- must be exported from MCX with PBR mode disabled, as alluded to by Arno in the thread I cited above:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/non-pbr-texture-exportation-for-msfs.452818/


Arno discusses MCX Options settings for use of PBR and non-PBR Materials with P3Dv4.x in the MCX documentation file:

[MCX install path]\ModelConverterX.pdf


Perhaps Arno would be so kind as to provide us with a "definitive" guide for how to convert our legacy 3D models from our legally purchased / licensed FSX / P3D versions of flight simulator (for use only on our own computers), so that until he updates the MCX documentation PDF, we can not only output for P3D, but also for MSFS 2020 (which has been 'out in the wild' for more than a year now).


PS: If you link to a source for the tractor 3D model you attempted to convert (showing distorted texture Materials), we could advise you better.

GaryGB

 

[frankturley]

Hi Gary,

Thanks again for coming back to me. I echo your thoughts about the definitive guide to convert our legacy 3D models.

I'm a bit stuck here as there are two tools involved, ADE and MCX. In FSX ADE we would add our object libraries to the ADE library, and just pick and place our objects. I understand that as things stand, we have to add objects to each individual project via the ADE 2020 User Module Manager. This process involves using the MCX export facility to create the model input files (.bin, .gltf and .xml), and copying the .DDS texture files. This seems to work fine for simple texture files, but gives me the corruption as previously illustrated.

I think I'll put up with the problem until a neat solution appears in ADE or MCX.

Frank.

 

[frankturley]

Hi Gary,

Thanks again for coming back to me. I echo your thoughts about the definitive guide to convert our legacy 3D models.

I'm a bit stuck here as there are two tools involved, ADE and MCX. In FSX ADE we would add our object libraries to the ADE library, and just pick and place our objects. I understand that as things stand, we have to add objects to each individual project via the ADE 2020 User Module Manager. This process involves using the MCX export facility to create the model input files (.bin, .gltf and .xml), and copying the .DDS texture files. This seems to work fine for simple texture files, but gives me the corruption as previously illustrated.

I think I'll put up with the problem until a neat solution appears in ADE or MCX.

Frank.

Hi Gary,

Good news! I have now got the models looking good in MSFS2020. I thought I would try following your advice about the vertical flip, and it works. So, to get a model from the FSX library into an ADE 2020 project, the process is -
(a) Use MCX to extract the .bin, .gtlf and .xml files (I use a temporary model work area for these)
(b) Use (an editor of your choice) to vertically flip the .DDS files (again to a temporary texture area)
(c) Copy the files from the temp area to the project MDL folder (textures in a sub folder)
(d) Use the ADE User Module Manager Get Modules to put the object into the available list
The model is then available for use in ADE

Thanks for all your help

Frank.

 

[=rk=]

Gary did not advise a vertical flip, but you are welcome to the advice any time, sir.

 

[frankturley]

Sorry Rick, I should have got that right, thanks to you I got there.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Frank:

I am glad to see you have found a work-around for the texture image Material display issue for your project.


However, IMHO, it is not yet clear whether a flipped *.DDS display results from:

* Your described work-flow above

...or:

* A failure of the current build of Arno's MCX to correctly recognize when it needs to perform what AFAIK, is an otherwise intended automatic vertical flip of mapped *.DDS texture image Materials ...when imported from a FSX / P3D MDL source, then exported to glTF format.


I anticipate Arno may reply to this thread, providing a more definitive answer as to how a *.DDS vertical flip occurs in your test case.

If / when Arno replies, he may disclose how a *.DDS vertical flip might be either forced- or prevented- by end users attempting to convert FSX / P3D 3D models.


IIUC, when we use MCX to import and convert FSX / P3D 3D models in MDL format, we can output to MSFS proprietary format glTFs either as:

* Multiple individual files with accompanying required *.BIN and *.XML files (MCX Export > Object > glTF)

...or:

* Inside (1) "Scenery Object Library" BGL (MCX Batch Convert > glTF)


It is not clear yet (to me, at least) how / how many ...accompanying required *.BIN and *.XML files are output by MCX for (1) such "Library Only" BGL when ex: a MCX Batch conversion is performed with glTF as the output format type.


Additionally, it is not clear yet (to me, at least) whether the current build of MCX requires manual pre-processing of FSX / P3D MDLs with mapped *.DDS textures ...before attempting a Batch conversion procedure with glTF as the output format type.


Does MCX expect FSPackageTool to properly handle conversion of only PackageSources 3D models mapped with *.JPG / *.PNG (but not 'legacy' FSX / P3D format DXT-type *.DDS) textures ?

If so, we should know up front, what must be done manually prior to using MCX for a semi-automated Batch conversion of FSX / P3D MDLs to a format compatible with subsequent processing by FSPackageTool.


Must we manually convert FSX / P3D MDLs mapped with *.DDS textures to *.JPG / *.PNG textures instead ...prior to MCX Batch conversion to glTF ?


Some info I have found thus far with this query:

https://www.google.com/search?q=sit...XK80KHQ35CpU4KBDy0wN6BAgBEDU&biw=1200&bih=612


I anticipate Arno should be able to test a work-flow using info above in this thread as to the FSX / P3D default file and 3D Models in question.

However, assuming we 'eventually' elicit a reply from Arno in this MCX troubleshooting thread, it is possible that he may request more info from you, so I hope you will check back on this thread periodically.

GaryGB

 

[frankturley]

Hi Gary,

Just to be plain about the procedure I have used -
(a) I use MCX Export Object to create my .bin, .gtlf and .xml files - I haven't found it produces texture files.
(b) I use an image editor to read, invert and save each .DDS texture file used by the object.
The resulting files are used as the model source by ADE, which magically produces the necessary files for the MSFS2020 Community Folder.

If I want to use the object at more than one airport I have to re-create the model in each project; it would be better if we could create libraries, but I guess we don't yet have the tools for that.

Frank

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Frank:

Which numeric and release date version of MCX did you use ?

Did you at any time use the MCX Material Editor ?

Which graphics application (aka "image editor") did you use ?

GaryGB

 

[frankturley]

Hi Gary,

MCX help screen reports Version 1.5.0.0.3594579 DEV 30/07/2021

I'm not aware I used the MCX Material Editor; I did have a look at what the buttons were for, but I didn't thoroughly explore their use.

I did the graphics conversion first with NCH PhotoPad, but I think this is a trial version for 3 weeks or so only. I then found Gimp, and that works fine, the version is reported as 2.10.24 (revision 3)

Frank.

 

[arno]

Hi,

Sorry to jump into this discussion quite late, I was a bit busy the last days. When I export models to MSFS I usually save the textures as PNG files (just convert them in the material editor). After that export to glTF and the MSFS package tool will take care of the rest (like converting to PNG.DDS).

I am not sure how ADE fits in this workflow, but I assume you can put the glTF with PNG textures in your package in ADE and that it will then call the package tool to make the final scenery.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Frank:

After my travels this weekend, I now see that Arno has posted a reply to this thread.

Apparently he has opted to not yet respond here to other questions above, regarding use of MCX for Batch conversion of 3D models from FSX / P3D format to MSFS format that still remain outstanding, considering the lack of updated topic-specific info in recent MCX 'development' versions:

[MCX install path]\ModelConverterX.pdf

...and the paucity of info scattered among a few threads at FS Developer forums since the release of MSFS 2020.


However, I agree with the described work-flow in MCX that Arno stated above:

When I export models to MSFS I usually save the textures as PNG files (just convert them in the material editor).

After that export to glTF and the MSFS package tool will take care of the rest (like converting to PNG.DDS).

I am not sure how ADE fits in this workflow, but I assume you can put the glTF with PNG textures in your package in ADE and that it will then call the package tool to make the final scenery.

IMHO, it is imperative that you 'Read The Fine Manual' (aka "RTFM") to better understand how to use MCX and derive the full benefit of its features ...that can save both work and troubleshooting.

Please regard the MCX Manual as having at least as much importance in FS scenery development as a NOTAM should in IVAO.


I would not use a 3rd party graphics application to convert texture Materials mapped onto FSX / P3D MDLs, as MCX Material Editor will ensure that proper processing is done to convert mapped texture image Materials from / to specialized image formats used by various versions of FS.

Hi Gary,

Thank you for your response, I'm afraid I rather quickly got lost in the technicalities. Perhaps I should try to explain the problem more carefully.

I have successfully transferred FSX objects into MSFS via the User Object Manager in Airport Design Editor. I achieved this by using MCX to create the .gltf, .bin and .xml files, and then taking the results plus the .DDS texture files into the objects MDL folder, the UOM in ADE does the rest. This works for all objects I have tried, but when viewed in MSFS, those objects with complex - e.g. multi-coloured - textures have a corrupted appearance.

So I thought that if perhaps I changed the source from .DDS to .JPG, I might have the solution. I found I could use the MCX Material Editor to make the .JPG files, but I haven't fathomed out how to tell the object to use the .JPG files, rather than the .DDS files. My question was therefore (a) Is this possible, and if so, how?

Frank.

[EDITED]

MCX Material Editor > {Textures} Tab >:

* Texture Folder > { path field } [...] button > Browse for folder > select: { target folder name } > {OK] button

...manually directs the output path of converted / remapped texture image Materials into a target folder of a ex: PackageSources location:

[ADE_2020 install path]\F20\{TurleyWhirlyBird_UK_Farm_Airstrip}\PackageSources\FT-ICAO-TurleyWhirlyBird_UK_Farm_Airstrip-ModelLib\Texture\


MSFS SDK FSPackageTool performs final DDS texture image Material format conversions optimally from ex: 32-bit PNG (not JPG) file formats.


MCX Material Editor > {Textures} Tab > [Save Texture] button > click: 'down arrow' to access pull-down pick-list >:

* check: Ensure size power of two ...check-box

...and:

* check: Overwrite existing textures ...check-box

...updates 3D model ('URI' ? ) path info, so that it re-maps- / and knows to instead use- ...newly-converted / re-mapped texture image Materials.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Resource_Identifier

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percent-encoding


I am not certain one could rely on any 3rd party graphics application using a currently available DDS plugin (other than MCX), to properly convert texture image Materials into new multiple compressed DXT DDS formats with optimized MIPMAPs utilized variably by MSFS 2020 SDK compilers.

[END_EDIT]

Good luck with your UK Farm AirStrip project(s).

GaryGB

 

[frankturley]

Hi Gary,

You are quite right, I need to RTFM!

It appears the Model User Manager of ADE is quite flexible regarding texture input, I have no problems with inverted .DDS, a friend who went along the same path used .JPG successfully, and Arno recommends conversion to .PNG

Having created my airfields successfully I think its time to gracefully retire, at least until new tools emerge.

Frank.

 

[arno]

Hi Gary,

In such longs threads like this and especially in your long posts, I can't always read everything, that would take me too much time. So in that case I will try to answer the main question of the person starting the thread and I might ignore side topics that appear in the same thread.

I am not sure what you want to know about batch converting. From my point of a view a single manual conversion is the same as a batch conversion. MCX has no assumptions on what the package tool will do with the models afterwards. But since the origin of DDS files is not well defined, it is not uncommon for applications to have different assumptions there. You see that between FSX and X-Plane as well. It might be MSFS and FSX also use a different orientation, but since I always use PNG files myself when I put models into MSFS I don't know the exact answer.

Fact remains that MSFS uses different DXT compression algorithms than FSX and P3D. MCX uses ImageTool to make DDS files and does not support to export the specific compressions that MSFS uses for certain types of maps. But since the package tool takes care of these texture conversions that also doesn't have to be a problem.