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Missing autogen around airport after compile

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First of all, a big thanks to everyone who has answered my questions about the GP editor. I think I am finally getting the hang of it.

I've encountered a new issue, but this time after compiling my airport. I've noticed some patches of default autogen that are missing adjacent to my airport. If I uncheck my airport in the scenery library, the default airport appears (of course) and the autogen surrounding the airport is fine. When I reactivate my airport, the same areas of autogen are missing again. None of my exclusion polygons or airfield background polygons extend into those areas whatsoever. I probably should post some pictures, but am away form my computer at the moment. Any ideas in the meantime?

Todd
 

gadgets

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No need for screenshots at this stage. I suggest you disable each .bgl in your airport scenery folder one at a time and re-test. That way, you will know what file is causing the problem and be in a better position to know how to address the problem.

Don
 

tgibson

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Try breaking up your GP's into separate objects during the compile process (a box will pop up). It might say something about Ref Points? Play with the size until it works OK. If you have large L or V shaped GP objects that enclose an area of autogen (and these are the areas that are disappearing), you can also try breaking these objects into individual lines that do not make the sharp bend.
 
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The culprit is my ADEP_XXX_GP.bgl file. And I just now noticed the sticky on ground polys and autogen suppression. So, found the problem file. Now, how to fix it...

Todd
 
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OK, here are some pics of my issue. The pic labelled default.jpg is the default P3D airport (my airport inactivated). The pic labelled MyAirport.jpg is my airport created with ADE-GP. You can see the missing autogen to the left of my airport. The final jpg image is the picture of my airport in ADE. Every line and polygon that is purple or green was created with the ADE GP editor.

Todd
 

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tgibson

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Did you try breaking up the objects into Groups during compile? Try 100m in the Group Size box, after choosing the third radio button.
 

gadgets

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Like Tom said. (See the middle of page 13 in the User Manual).

Unfortunately, with the size of your some of your ground polys, even doing that won't completely avoid the effect. In Flightsim, autogen is suppressed within the bounding box of every scenery object. (GPs are scenery objects.) ADE_GP can't do anything about that. (The bounding box is a rectangle oriented X/Y/Z at the extremes of your poly/object.)

For big polys near the edges, particularly the ones to each side of the runway at the NE end, the only solution is to break them up into smaller polys - AND do as Tom suggests.

Don
 

tgibson

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Don,

Are the bounding boxes oriented N/S/E/W?

If so, this diagonal airport could indeed have significant areas of autogen removal, even breaking it into Groups, if you have lines from one end of the airport to the other.
 

gadgets

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Are the bounding boxes oriented N/S/E/W?
Yes

If so, this diagonal airport could indeed have significant areas of autogen removal, even breaking it into Groups, if you have lines from one end of the airport to the other.
YES!

But, I have observed - but have not proven - that the layer/group immediately preceding the "null scale" command in the .asm file does not suppress autogen at all. Hence, using multiple groups sort of defeats this effect. Unfortunately, multiple "null scale" commands cause flickering, so ADE_GP includes only one. However, lines are likely to be in the highest layer (i.e., the last layer processed), so a possible solution for long lines MAY BE NOT to group objects and ensure all your long lines are in the top layer. Polys could be layered in small groups locally, thus minimizing their effect on autogen.

ADE_GP already does everything it can to minimize autogen suppression. Unfortunately "that's the nature of the beast."

Incidentally, we refer to bounding box. But, for Ground polys, there is no bounding box per se. The .asm file specifies a radius from which, I assume, Flightsim infers a bounding box. Other threads on the topic warn against "messing" with radius - so I haven't done so. Perhaps I'll ignore that warning and do some further testing. There may be a trade-off available.

Don
 

tgibson

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Reducing bounding boxes for other objects has the effect of the object disappearing when you are not looking at the center of that object. They disappear in your peripheral vision. But perhaps that is a lesser evil than losing autogen?
 
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I don't understand this concept of bounding boxes you are referring to.

Don, what "large" polys are you talking about? The only polygons I created and textured with GP editor are the ones colored purple and green. Everything else, taxiways/aprons (grey), exclusion/flatten poly (yellow poly encompassing airport), infield polys (light pink) flanking the runways, and airport background are all ADE generated. None of them encompass any of the autogen lying outside of the airport.

And what do you guys define as a GP group? Are ground polys given the same layer number considered to be in the same group?

And, so you know, when I say ground poly, I am referring to all polys textured with the GP editor.

Todd
 

gadgets

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I don't understand this concept of bounding boxes you are referring to.
I defined "bounding box" 5 posts earlier.

Don, what "large" polys are you talking about?
Oops! I was looking at the big aprons.

And what do you guys define as a GP group? Are ground polys given the same layer number considered to be in the same group?
The concept of "groups" is discussed in the user manual under the heading "Compiling the Ground Polys".

Don
 
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Don,

I guess what I am asking is which of my ground polygons could possibly create a bounding box large enough to suppress that much autogen outside the airport boundaries? None of my polygons extend that far. Sorry to sound so dense (and I did read the manual), but does every new polygon create an invisible bounding box that is much larger than the polygon itself? None of the ground polys or line polys I created seem that big.

Todd
 

gadgets

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It's not a question of which GP object. The outer boundary of all GP objects in a group defines the bounding box.

Without having your AD3 file, we can't tell how you've layered things. I'm assuming, therefore, that all lines are in the same layer and so are all polys - perhaps even the same layer for both. So, unless you are doing as Tom suggested and having the compiler split your GP objects into groups, draw a XY rectangle around all your lines and another around all your ploys and see if either matches your autogen suppression.

Easier still, do as Tom suggests and see if anything changes.

Don
 

tgibson

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Hi,

The easy way to imagine a bounding box:

1. In ADE, load your airport and leave north pointing up (default load situation).

2. Examine your airport for the longest GP line you have created, that is "on the diagonal" - i.e. not straight up and down.

3. Now estimate the upper edge and the left edge of *any part of the line*, and place your mouse there.

4. Now drag your mouse down and to the right, creating a selection box. Keep dragging until the entire line is inside the box. If it isn't, adjust your starting point and draw the box again.

That box you have just created is the bounding box, and all autogen inside that box *will usually be suppressed*.

Your before and after pictures are odd since some autogen is not suppressed (but most is). I don't know what is going on there.

Hope this helps,
 

tgibson

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PS. The bounding box will actually extend some (hopefully small) distance beyond the box you have just created, but sometimes it can be significantly larger. I don't know the reason.
 

gadgets

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Tom, I can now confirm two things about the bounding box for GP objects:
  1. The size of the bounding box is not inferred from the Radius specification in the SCALE_AGL command. So, it must be calculated from the vertex positions.
  2. And, consequently, reducing the radius has no effect on autogen suppression. I reduced the scale to 1m. and there was no apparent different in the Flightsim rendered display.
So, I remain convinced that there's nothing more I can do to reduce autogen suppression by ground polys.

Autogen suppression can only be reduced by:
  • splitting large groups of GP objects into smaller groups (accomplished by the compiler at the user's direction), or if that's not enough
  • splitting large objects up which, of course, can only be done by the user.
Don
 

tgibson

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I agree you probably have done as much as you can, barring a new development.
 
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Tom,

I did as you suggested and clicked the 3rd option in the compiler window. I entered 100 in the 'Group Size' box and compiled. One of my autogen suppression areas (south of the airport) is completely fixed! The other suppression area on the north side of the airport didn't change, though.

Todd
 

gadgets

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The other suppression area on the north side of the airport didn't change, though
Do you really mean it didn't change or that you still have some suppression? Before, you had one big areas of suppression in a X/Y rectangle covering virtually your entire airport that extend both north and south of the runway. When you break your GP objects into groups, you generate several smaller rectangular areas of autogen suppression. If the one north of the airport didn't change, then I suspect you have another issue not related to ground polys.

A screenshot of your ADE display isn't very helpful. If you want specific advice, please send us your ADE file so that we can duplicate and analyse your situation. If you are shy about posting it, send it to me via e-mail at don at stuff4fs dot com.

Don
 
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