• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

    • Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
    • Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
    • Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
    • Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
    • Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
    • Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.

    Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.

    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

NDB descriptions

DragonflightDesign

Resource contributor
Messages
892
Country
northernireland
Code:
<Ndb
      lat="41.35184943"  
      lon="-89.15309158"                    
      alt="199.33918762"                    
      type="COMPASS_POINT"                    
      frequency="890.0"     
      range="12345"                     
      magvar="0.0"                        
      region="K6"                        
      ident="NDB"             
      name="Some NDB">
      <!-- Optional VisualModel specification here -->        
</Ndb>
Can anyone tell me what 'region' is and if the parameter is important (i.e. needs to be there)? I want to drop some weather ships into the North Atlantic.
 
Messages
523
Country
england
The purpose of the region code is to identify where in the world the NDB (or VOR, Intersection...) is. For example, the NDB "ROS", is that the one in Minnesota USA (region code K3) or the one on the Greek island of Rhodes (region code LG)?
The combination of Region + Identifier must be unique.

I'm not sure there's a formal region code for mobile/ship based navaids, so my guess would be either to use the country code for your ship's port of registry, or just invent one that isn't on the list you linked to. Either way, region + identifier needs to be unique.

Fun fact: there are 24 NDBs across the world, just called "G"

edit: there's another discussion of region codes here: https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/region-codes.355134/
 
Messages
1,360
Country
scotland
Hi Folks

Dai -
Don't know if you've gotten your NDB test-sample code to work yet ?

IF NOT -
Apologies if some of this is 'sucking eggs'...

Particularly the WEATHERSHIPS specific info.
Memories as a kid seeing them in Greenock's harbours.

Please find some info/suggestions below on -
- Compiling
- Weatherships
- Region & Ident Codes
- XML NDB valid working example, plus matching FLT, (north of Ellesmere Island).

___________________________________________________________

COMPILING -

I compiled & tested your example,
cut & pasted from above post, (added FSData tags),
and it works ok.

It shows up at 'Illinois Valley Regional Airport',
and is visible on the In-Game Map, as co-located with the DME on the runway.

When you say 'it doesn't work', which did you mean -

A) IF FAILS AT COMPILE TIME -
If so -
- Did you wrap it in the FSData tags ?
- Did you -
- - B) Wrap it in an AIRPORT tag pair ?
- - C) Leave it as as standalone NDB ?

D) IF COMPILES OK, THEN FAILS IN-GAME -
If so -
- COORDINATES - Is a co-located addon scenery possibly inhibiting ?
- RANGE - Were you testing from within a close enough distance ?

COORDINATES -
To prevent possible interference from other sceneries,
if NDB is on Airport/Oilrig/Vessel, (i.e. within an AIRPORT's tags)
I usually prefix mine with the full DELETEAIRPORT tag set.

RANGE - COMPASS_POINT -
6.6 NM == Your sample's set maximum RANGE (12345 Metres)

RANGE -
- The maximum useable/detectable distance.
- Is impaired by earth curvature, (FSX & newer).
- IRL is dependent on wattage.
- XML valid up to 150N (ground dist).
- XML values > 150N, are treated as 150N.
- InGame useable/detectable @ 145N (ground dist at altitude).

NDB - TYPE to RANGE
Numbers below are in NAUTICAL MILES

TYPE IRL Game detectable
CP 15 150
MH 25 Not tested
H 50 Not tested
HH 75 150

IRL I guess the weathership's NDB type would be HH

___________________________________________________________

WEATHERSHIPS -

Definitions for clarity -
- VESSEL - Specific vessel
- STATION - ICAO specified location where a VESSEL is deployed
- WEATHERSHIP - The VESSEL currently deployed at a STATION
- GRIDSQUARE - A grid of 10NM blocks centred on STATION
- STATIONID - STATION specific ICAO deignated 3 letter code, (4Y?)
- STATIONNDBFREQ - STATION specific ICAO deignated FREQUENCY, always static
- STATIONNDBIDENT - The NDB transmitted IDENT, was changed according to VESSEL's GRIDSQUARE, (See below)

STATION -
- Intent was for VESSEL to stay ON STATION, (within 5NM of STATION coords)
- Weather/mech could force the vessel OFF STATION, (preferred maintain within 25NM)

Additionally, over the years, ICAO -
- Changed specified location of some STATIONs
- Withdrew STATIONs

VESSEL -
Some STATIONs were served by a VESSEL which remained permanently,
with their crews being transferred on/off from supply-ships.

Other STATIONs were served by VESSELs being periodically swapped out.
The relieving VESSEL would then set it's comms/NDB to the STATIONID/FREQ/NDBIDENT

___________________________________________________________

RE: MADE-UP CODES -

Please Nooooooooo ;-)

Whilst I've placed a fair number of NDBs well offshore,and all have worked,
I might just have been lucky in selecting appropriate region codes,
but....

Possible, but not verified,
if you use a fictional made-up region code,
when FS compiles it's indices for its facilities navaids index,
NIndex.IDX (C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\FSX\Facilities)
yours might be 'relocated' inappropriately,
or maybe not indexed at all, (i.e. won't be available).

___________________________________________________________

REGION ID -

Region Identifiers are assigned for the entire globe,
i.e. including over oceans, (not just land)

Suggest using your weathership's locations's FIR code, (1st two chrs)

To obtain a valid FIR region identifier -
Visit - ICAO GIS Viewer
URL - https://gis.icao.int/icaoviewerOSM/

Before proceeding further,
suggest zooming-in, and panning, the map
to display your initial approximate area of interest.

BE AWARE -
When zooming and panning with overlays active,
the GIS server may be slow to refresh, or stall, the background & overlay updates
i.e. Boundaries, and basemap layers may be geographically out-of-sync.

WORKAROUND -
You can force a refresh of -
- BASEMAP - By toggling between BASEMAP types
- OVERLAYS - By toggling OVERLAY 'ICAOFIR2015 modified' off/on

On LHS 'Menu'
Expand - 'ICAO Layers'
Tick - 'ICAO FIR'
Expand - 'ICAO FIR'
Tick - 'ICAOFIR2015 modified' - Displays FIR area boundaries
Tick - 'Fir Coord to update' - Displays coordinates for FIR area extents

If you LEFTCLICK within a boundary,
a POPUP will display data from 'ICAOFIR2015 modified'

e.g.
Clicking within 'FIR NEW YORK OCEANIC'
will display relevant data, including -
ICAOCODE = KZNY

Suggest using 1st 2 chars, (in this case KZ)
as the REGION identifier, for vessels within that region boundary

___________________________________________________________

STATIONID -

STATION specific ICAO deignated 3 letter code, (4YA to 4YZ)
4YA to 4YM - Atlantic
4YN to 4YZ - Pacific & elesewhere

See URLs below for STATIONIDs, coordinates, & timeline data.

___________________________________________________________

STATIONNDBIDENT - max 5 chars

IRL weatherships set their -
- STATIONNDBFREQ to the STATION's ICAO assigned freq.
- STATIONNDBIDENT changed with vessel's current GRIDSQUARE location.

4 letter code -
1 Y
2 STATIONLETTER
3 GRIDSQUARE LATLETTER
4 GRIDSQUARE LONLETTER

See GRID REPORTING CHART attached
e.g.
YPOS YP ON STATION
YPMG YP OFF STATION in GRIDSQUARE MG, i.e. 30NM south, 50NM west

As 'Y' prefix is assigned to Australia,
and some match Aus airport idents, e.g. YBOS

For simplicity's sake and avoid in-game confusion
suggest just using the STATIONID, e.g. 4YP


GPS WAYPOINT entry can be used to check
if there's an IDENT clash, (within same REGIONID).

___________________________________________________________

NDB NAME - max 48 chars

Anything text goes.
Personally, I'd used the vessel's CALLSIGN - VESSELNAME

Again suggest using the STATIONID -
e.g. either -
4YA - Weathership Able
4YA - Weathership Alpha
(Depending on your scenery's timeframe)

___________________________________________________________

URLS -

Wikipedia - Weather ship
Contains station coordinates

Ocean weather ships
Primarily about UK weatherships, (many images have link-rotted)

WEATHER SHIPS (BRITISH & NORTH AMERICAN)

CANADIAN WEATHER SHIPS
Contains station coordinates

___________________________________________________________

XML NDB valid working example

Please find an XML testfile attached -
_ODG_TESTFILE_NDBS_N_OF_ELLESMERE_ISLAND___NAVAIDS_X.XML
containing 3 geographically co-located NDBs,
of differing TYPE, RANGE, FREQ, etc,
positioned north of Ellesmere Island, (Canada),
with a GEN_MISSIONPILLAR as a visual marker, (visible < 20NM)

There's also a matching FLT file
using default B206 in SLEW mode.

Initialised position is on the ground
145NM due true south of the NDBs
with aircraft oriented towards NDB.

ADF is pre-tuned to 1000.00 for NDB 4YA
ADF will indicate beacon not detected, (due to earth-curvature).
SLEW vertically upward, and beacon will become detectable,
(from > 1520ft, an unexpectedly low altitude).

Note that although the NDB's RANGE is set at 500N
it only works out to 145N (at altitude)
Once detected, check by SLEWing backwards.

1 Minute Latitude == 1 Nautical Mile

EDIT -
Rename .....NAVAIDS_X.TXT as .XML
Rename .....FLIGHT.TXT as .FLT

HTH
ATB
Paul
 

Attachments

  • _ODG_TESTFILE_NDBS_N_OF_ELLESMERE_ISLAND___NAVAIDS_X.TXT
    2.9 KB · Views: 47
  • _ODG_TESTFILE_NDBS_N_OF_ELLESMERE_ISLAND___FLIGHT.TXT
    9.2 KB · Views: 43
  • GRID REPORTING CHART.jpg
    GRID REPORTING CHART.jpg
    108.9 KB · Views: 76
Last edited:

DragonflightDesign

Resource contributor
Messages
892
Country
northernireland
Thank you for the very detailed feedback Paul - it's very much appreciated. 'My' weatherships are from 1946, both North Atlantic and North Pacific. They are to be part of PILOT'S B-314 Clipper release to enable trans-oceanic navigation.
 
Top