FSX Orphaned runways/ILS

#1
Hi Foks,

I'm a little bit stuck and copuld do with some help. In my scenery a while back I had to orphan some old FSX stock runways/ILS' however I added a new runway and ILS today and I need to use the same ILS IDENTs used for the new runway. Because of the duplicate IDENTS ADE v1.47 is giving a compile error for obvious reasons.

So my question is, is there a way to edit the orphaned ILS IDENTS? I'm OK with the runways and ILS being orphaned since they come from a stock airport but I need to be able to re-use the original IDENTs for the new runway. There appears to be no way to edit the orphaned ILS objects.Is this correct?

Could this be changed if the original runway/ILS were "un-orphaned" and if so how would you do that?

I hope there is an easy answer for this??? :confused:

Many thanks,
Mark
 

tgibson

Resource contributor
#2
AFAIK you cannot de-orphan an ILS, and you cannot create a duplicate. All I know to do is:

1. Buy the Prokey and use Raw Data Mode to move the orphaned stock ILS to your new runway

2. Start over with the stock airport.

Hope this helps,
 

scruffyduck

Administrator
Staff member
FSDevConf team
Resource contributor
#3
Tom is correct

The easiest way to solve this issue it to use the Raw Data View. If you have a ProKey then you have that tool. Alternatively you can download a 15 day trial of the key that will also allow you do do it. Finally if iti s just for one ILS at one airport then we can probably do it for you.
 
#4
Tom is correct

The easiest way to solve this issue it to use the Raw Data View. If you have a ProKey then you have that tool. Alternatively you can download a 15 day trial of the key that will also allow you do do it. Finally if iti s just for one ILS at one airport then we can probably do it for you.
Hi Tom & Jon,

Thx for the info. That's a shame there's no easy "undo" option but moving the orphaned ILS is fine with me as re-adding everything that has been added since then to my current scenery is going to take a very long time!

Personally, I have no qualms about buying the pro-key. The amount of work you have put into this application is tremendous and I am very happy to contribute. :cool:I would need to know more about the Raw Data View in order to move it back though. I will purchase the Pro-key today but can you guys help me out here with what to do to move it back? I assume with this function I can reposition the orphaned runway to the new location, update the ILS settings i need to enable DME) and give it a new runway number.

Jon - to answer your question, yes, it's one stock runway with it's ILS that needs to be put back. 26L at EDDF. I orphaned this because Fraport stopped experimenting with this HALS concept (aka 26L).

Look forward to hearing from you. :)

Cheers
Mark
 

scruffyduck

Administrator
Staff member
FSDevConf team
Resource contributor
#5
Mark

Thank you for buying the ProKey. I am out of my office most of today bur hopefully one of the others can tell you what is needed. If not I will reply again later.
 
#6
Mark,

you are correct in undoing the orphaned 8R/26L....
I found that when i orphaned this runway it moved it to the north of the airport
But I watched aircraft still landing on it even though it was 3mx3m (I think)
I also moved it back to it's original position but made the runway shorter so Jets would not use it to take of from the halfway position.......
this airport is a very tricky one to play with, Jim and Tom will confirm the problems many have had with it over the years.......
 
#7
Hi Guys,

OK, I have the Pro Key and can see the Raw Data View, but I'm not sure how to edit the position of the ILS and runways in this viewer? I can see the orphaned runway in the main Airport section of EDDF but I don't understand how to edit the entries e.g. edit the lat, lon, alt and IDENT fields in the Raw Data View? Can you help?

Here's the section I copied form the Raw Data View...

<Runway
lat="50.0783020763665"
lon="8.57046350609698"
alt="0.0M"
surface="BRICK"
heading="0"
length="3.0M"
width="3.0M"
number="36"
designator="W"
patternAltitude="0.0M"
primaryTakeoff="NO"
primaryLanding="NO"
primaryPattern="LEFT"
secondaryTakeoff="NO"
secondaryLanding="NO"
secondaryPattern="LEFT">
<Ils
lat="50.0783020763665"
lon="8.57046350609698"
alt="0.0M"
heading="0"
frequency="108.000"
end="PRIMARY"
range="0.0N"
magvar="-1"
ident="IFWL"
width="0"
name="DO NOT USE"
backCourse="FALSE">
</Ils>
<Ils
lat="50.0783020763665"
lon="8.57046350609698"
alt="0.0M"
heading="0"
frequency="108.000"
end="PRIMARY"
range="0.0N"
magvar="-1"
ident="IFNW"
width="0"
name="DO NOT USE"
backCourse="FALSE">
</Ils>
<Ils
lat="50.0783020763665"
lon="8.57046350609698"
alt="0.0M"
heading="0"
frequency="108.000"
end="PRIMARY"
range="0.0N"
magvar="-1"
ident="IFNE"
width="0"
name="DO NOT USE"
backCourse="FALSE">
</Ils>
</Runway>


A little bit of background on this- Actually I discovered that I must have orphaned more than just one ILS because there's 3 in total! If I remember correctly from several months ago, I was originally trying to rename the ILS IDENTs for the stock ILS for Rwy 07L and 25R but because it's stock you can't delete them hence this ILS and it's reciprocal plus the overlayed 26L ILS (on Rwy 25L) all got orphaned to the brick runway to the north.I then created 2 new ILS with new IDENTs for the existing runway.

What I'd like to be able to do is return the orphaned ILS' for IFNW and IFNE back to their original position and make them active again so I can move them to a different location for the new runway.
Any help would be appreciated on how to do this.


Glottis- thx for the info on this. :). I think I need to double check to see if aircraft are landing on this brick runway still. I hadn't noticed they were but may be they are. FYI - I did in fact keep 26L in place, but I changed the runway settings (both ends) to "No" for takeoffs and landing , removed the rwy markings and orphaned the ILS.

Thx
Mark
 
#8
Hi Guys,


What I'd like to be able to do is return the orphaned ILS' for IFNW and IFNE back to their original position and make them active again so I can move them to a different location for the new runway.
Any help would be appreciated on how to do this.


Glottis- thx for the info on this. :). I think I need to double check to see if aircraft are landing on this brick runway still. I hadn't noticed they were but may be they are. FYI - I did in fact keep 26L in place, but I changed the runway settings (both ends) to "No" for takeoffs and landing , removed the rwy markings and orphaned the ILS.

Thx
Mark
Mark

never used Raw Data so I'm afraid i cant help you there,
if you have added the new Northwest runway which is what ILS' IFNW and IFNE are for,
it would be better leaving this as 00/18 till you change the original 7L/25R to 7C/25C and not forgetting to correct them in the "Approach Mode" , then work on changing 00/18 to 7L/25R then add the navaids,
you also need to remove the "Start" from runway 26L
 

tgibson

Resource contributor
#9
It appears you have orphaned two ILS's and only want to get one back? In that case I would think the simplest thing to do would be to remove that entire ILS section. Then the stock ILS should show up again (probably after reloading the file). Then you can edit it as usual.

Hope this helps,
 

scruffyduck

Administrator
Staff member
FSDevConf team
Resource contributor
#10
I can probably answer this but I am up to my armpits at the moment and need to sort a few other things out first - sorry :eek:
 
#11
It appears you have orphaned two ILS's and only want to get one back? In that case I would think the simplest thing to do would be to remove that entire ILS section. Then the stock ILS should show up again (probably after reloading the file). Then you can edit it as usual.

Hope this helps,
Hi Tom,

Actually I orphaned 3 ILS' all told but I need to get 2 back..... aka the ones I highlighted in red above.Are you suggesting to delete the runway section for the brick runway altogether? If so , how do I do that in the Raw Data View? I guess I just need a little pointer in the right direction as to how to restore the orphaned ILS back to their original positions using the Raw Data Viewer.

I can probably answer this but I am up to my armpits at the moment and need to sort a few other things out first - sorry :eek:
Hi Jon, no rush on this. I have a few other updates to do on this scenery anyway. Do you think you'll be able to help me out by the end of this week or if there's any reference material you have on the Pro key functions I can read through this in the meantime?

Best Regards,
Mark
 

scruffyduck

Administrator
Staff member
FSDevConf team
Resource contributor
#14
Here is a method to undo the orphans.

Load the airport and go to Tools > Raw Data View

Find the orphan runway in the list under the airport. It is not too easy but it is the first of the Runways without a name. It contains three ILS:

Find the idents that you want to restore and use the Delete Button to remove them. Do this for each and then close the RDV dialog. ADE will re-draw the airport.

Now you do not have those ILS in the project. If you did not want to change anything about the stock ILS then you might just leave things. They will not show in ADE however.

Instead you can re-load the stock navaids and this should bring up the stock ILS in the project:



Select just Navaids and Waypoints and click the Import Button.

The stock ILS should then be restored to their stock positions in ADE:



You might need to move them a bit if they are not exactly where you want them.

An alternative is to add your own ILS with the Idents above but I am not sure that is a good way to do it. Remember that those stock ILS cannot be deleted and will be there in the stock positions in FSX even if you do not import stock navaids again - you just won't be able to adjust their position etc.

The only caveat on loading stock data again is that it might affect other navaids that you have moved or modified so you would need to check everything.
 
#15
Hello Jon,

Many thx for the guidance & tips - this helps a lot. I also found yesterday the info I was looking for around the RDV in the supplemental user manual which I had missed so this also provided some better insight.:)

Anway, let me give this procedure a go. This should help undo the orphans.;)

Cheers
Mark
 
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