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P3D v4 PBR Materials Issue

Messages
17
Country
ukraine
Hello. I've already read a lot of topics here about PBR issues, but I cannot get things right. I have simple PBR model with Fire hydrant. Default 3DS Max shader outperforms Prepar3D SDK's one. Textures used are here: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AutddSeez-MhgpV75EaAQAuIO9WY3A?e=GzmGZS

Left side - 3DS Shader, right side - P3D shader:
1580561500236.png


Prepar3D material settings:
1580561413225.png
1580561425777.png


Using other formats (such as PNG instead of DDS, different ARGB/DXT converts) gives no other result.

I'll appreciate any help on this.
 

Pyscen

Resource contributor
Messages
2,993
Country
us-texas
Hello...

I would agree with you about which one is the better one. Have you tried adjusting the Metallic value or the Smoothness value? It's showing within the picture above as 0.0 for both of them? Nothing appears to be wrong in the textures.
 
Messages
17
Country
ukraine
Hello...

I would agree with you about which one is the better one. Have you tried adjusting the Metallic value or the Smoothness value? It's showing within the picture above as 0.0 for both of them?

Yes, Metallic and Smoothness are set to 0.0 since I have Metallic map. Such values are obtained from metallic map, aren't they?
 

Pyscen

Resource contributor
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2,993
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us-texas
Not necessarily - at least not fully taken from the textures alone. Those values are contained in the model if I recall correctly. Have you used the models within the sim at all or is it just from 3dMax viewer?
 
Messages
17
Country
ukraine
Not necessarily - at least not fully taken from the textures alone. Those values are contained in the model if I recall correctly. Have you used the models within the sim at all or is it just from 3dMax viewer?
Er..... so how to setup these values? In which way they are interpolated into final values? (Smoothness + texture smoothness) / 2?

I have incorrect results in simulator too, result in simulator is like in 3ds
 

Pyscen

Resource contributor
Messages
2,993
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us-texas
Before trying to change the values, do this... invert the metalness channel (red channel) and recompile it and see what happens.

EDIT: sorry not the red channel but the alpha channel, smoothness. invert it and then recompile.
 
Last edited:

Pyscen

Resource contributor
Messages
2,993
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us-texas
OK...

I should have asked if you had already inverted the roughness to smoothness. ;) Looking back at your original picture, the 3dsMax version looks more unrealistic to me... because the rust shouldn't shine at all (only the yellow paint should be). The next question for you should have been, what were you looking for in the beginning? The 3dsMax PBR shader is most likely used for Unity or Unreal and most likely uses the roughness map (not the smoothness - there are other differences in how the metallic/metalness maps are read by Unity or Unreal also). The P3D PBR shader would be more visibly correct in this case.

The inverted version of the smoothness map I compiled - definitely looks rougher and not as shiny (the bare metal areas look shiny - which is correct too). Interesting findings though. :)
 
Messages
17
Country
ukraine
OK...

I should have asked if you had already inverted the roughness to smoothness. ;) Looking back at your original picture, the 3dsMax version looks more unrealistic to me... because the rust shouldn't shine at all (only the yellow paint should be). The next question for you should have been, what were you looking for in the beginning? The 3dsMax PBR shader is most likely used for Unity or Unreal and most likely uses the roughness map (not the smoothness - there are other differences in how the metallic/metalness maps are read by Unity or Unreal also). The P3D PBR shader would be more visibly correct in this case.

The inverted version of the smoothness map I compiled - definitely looks rougher and not as shiny (the bare metal areas look shiny - which is correct too). Interesting findings though. :)
I agree. Mostly I'm working with custom PBR game engines, where image is looking like in Substance/Quixel. PBR in P3D seems broken, as you can see, albedo is "overwhited" or coated with white color with no reason.
So....

Will try to get acceptable solution...
 
Messages
17
Country
ukraine
As I've just tested in P3D, shader in 3DS is completely broken

1580646053136.png


Probably, I can get acceptable solution. Thanks
 

Pyscen

Resource contributor
Messages
2,993
Country
us-texas
Hello...

How was the original Smoothness map created?

As I mentioned before, If you had created a Roughness map and invert it, it should be a Smoothness map. If you did that before I inverted it then, yes it would be backward and switched back to what it was. What version of the P3D SDK are you using?
 

Christian Bahr

Resource contributor
Messages
951
Country
germany
Hello friends of PBR :)

I have a question about the PBR preview in 3dsm. Can it be that the different versions have a different PBR version? In the 2015 version I have a not very accurate representation of the preview - it is very different from the result in P3Dv4!


Here for the test the 3-D model in the PBR preview in 3dsm
pbr_preview_3dsm.jpg




And here the same 3-D model in the P3Dv4
2020-2-2_15-55-35-862.jpg



The PBR effect is clearly recognizable at the top of the roof area and is very different from the PBR preview in 3dsm. This makes it a bit difficult to get a good result without experimenting a lot :(
 

Pyscen

Resource contributor
Messages
2,993
Country
us-texas
Hello Christian...

If what you are saying is correct (and going by your images, I would say they are), then it could also be the specific "year" plugin for a 3dsMax version (within the P3D SDK) that could be written incorrectly? Are all the specific P3D SDK year versions for 3dsMax written the same?
 

Christian Bahr

Resource contributor
Messages
951
Country
germany
Hello Christian...

If what you are saying is correct (and going by your images, I would say they are), then it could also be the specific "year" plugin for a 3dsMax version (within the P3D SDK) that could be written incorrectly? Are all the specific P3D SDK year versions for 3dsMax written the same?
I think I made a mistake there. The 3dsm PBR preview does not come from 3dsm shaders, but the 3dsm PBR preview comes from the P4Dv4 SDK shaders. Thanks for the hint.
 
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