P3D v2 Pitch/Bank not applied to scenery objetcs?

#1
Something I never tried before, but today I'd like to modify the "flat" attitude of some objetcs, and give some pitching/banking to small leisure sail boats sitting on a beach.

The pitch and bank figures (I guess these are degrees?) are displayed in the xml properties, but once compiled the boats are still sitting flat, thus their nose is digging deeply in the sand as if they had beached at 40 knots at least... Not good, captain!

Is it a bug (Application 01.65.5396.13040) or what am I doing bad?
 

scruffyduck

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#2
These properties are not honored by FSX (and thus it seems P3D) If the pitch/bank values are being generated in the XML then it will be the compiler that is ignoring them. I have confirmed for FSX that those values are passed into the Bgl file but FSX is ignoring them. I guess we should remove those properties from ADE since they don't do anything.
 
#3
Hello:

Some info on how to successfully display Pitch and/or Bank attributes when BGL-comp XML-placed scenery objects are rendered in FSX:

Drawcall batching breaks pitch and bank in placements. Pitch & bank still works fine for models that are not batched. Sketchup models pass through MCX which batches models by default if they contain no LODs or animations. Gmax doesn't batch models under any circumstances. IS2 breaks batching while it's running, allowing you to see the effects of pitch & bank temporarily, after you close & restart the sim the batching returns and your models stand up straight again. You can add an empty LOD to your sketchup models in MCX to prevent them from being batched therefore allowing pitch & bank in their placements. Of course you give up the benefits of drawcall batching when you do that.

Jim
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/sloping-scenery.424843/


Some additional info:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/instant-scenery-object-problems.22107/


These properties are not honored by FSX (and thus it seems P3D) If the pitch/bank values are being generated in the XML then it will be the compiler that is ignoring them. I have confirmed for FSX that those values are passed into the Bgl file but FSX is ignoring them. I guess we should remove those properties from ADE since they don't do anything.


Jon:

Given the MDL-related determinants of whether a Pitch and/or Bank attribute successfully displays when BGL-comp XML-placed scenery objects are placed in FSX, it would seem desirable for end users to be able to continue using MSFS MDLs in the FS2Kx / FSX / P3D internal format of their own choice ...when placing objects via the ADE GUI.


IMHO, instead of reducing the feature set in ADE, it may be better for FS developers to learn how to use more of the many configuration options in ModelConverterX (aka "MCX") when importing / editing / exporting MDLs for the intended version of FS in which they are to be displayed.


Many Thanks for making (and keeping) ADE the very full-featured FS utility that it is today !


Hope this helps ! :)

GaryGB
 
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scruffyduck

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#4
Interesting Gary

However as far as I can tell FSX does not honor this for Stock Objects - so does this mean that they would all need to be passed through some tool and recompiled?
 
#5
Interesting Gary

However as far as I can tell FSX does not honor this for Stock Objects - so does this mean that they would all need to be passed through some tool and recompiled?
YIKES... that's a scary idea; one might wonder just what surprises might occur when opening that can of worms! :eek:


IMHO, although MS has allowed end users to use their 3D scenery object 'geometry' un-altered, but has allowed alteration / manipulation of the default / 'stock' textures in many ways over the years including adding / removing MIP-MAPs, it would seem reasonable that they might therefor also allow manipulation of the attributes within the MDL files to ex: add LODs to allow display of Pitch & Bank ...or otherwise disable Draw Call batching at run time in FSX. :idea:

Perhaps Jim Robinson may have some additional ideas on this topic too ? :scratchch

GaryGB
 

scruffyduck

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#6
Perhaps it is easier to assume that pitch and bank is not an option for most objects ;)
 
#8
George

That is not a stock FSX sceneryobject.

Jon

Back in 2008 the ADE beta team tested FSX SP1 and FSX SP2/Acceleration Pack . Pitch and bank display correctly in FSX SP1. Anyone that still uses SP1 has the option to bank and pitch any Library object. When FSX SP2/Acceleration Pack was introduced the bank and pitch stop working.
 

scruffyduck

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#9
Thanks for the clarification Jim. We need to add that information to the documentation
 
#10
You are all talking of stock objects, and I begin to doubt of what exactly is a stock object... Is it "stock" vs. "user" or "stock" vs. "simobject" ?
In my initial question, these small leisure boats are models I created from scratch, and they can't be dispayed with a pitch/bank angle whatever angle I specify in ADE.

Given the limitations in FSX (and P3D2) am I supposed to create special pitched/banked models via MCX and include them into a library, in order to display pitched/banked objects in my scenery?
No other way to get my "user" objects be displayed banking?
 
#11
You are all talking of stock objects, and I begin to doubt of what exactly is a stock object... Is it "stock" vs. "user" or "stock" vs. "simobject" ?

In my initial question, these small leisure boats are models I created from scratch, and they can't be dispayed with a pitch/bank angle whatever angle I specify in ADE.

Given the limitations in FSX (and P3D2) am I supposed to create special pitched/banked models via MCX and include them into a library, in order to display pitched/banked objects in my scenery?

No other way to get my "user" objects be displayed banking?
As stated in the quote from Jim Robinson in my reply above:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...pplied-to-scenery-objetcs.431792/#post-687494


Reportedly, using ex: MCX to add an empty LOD to (-or having any Animation within) a MDL effectively disables Draw Call Batching.

Disabling Draw Call Batching then allows display of Pitch & Bank to work without other changes to the Geometry / Attributes of a MDL.

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/add-empty-lod.83584/


Hope this clarifies things a bit more. :)

GaryGB
 
#13
Very simply - drawcall batching breaks pitch & bank in placements. It doesn't have anything to do with SP2/Accel or stock vs custom objects. The reason "pitch & bank is broken at SP2/Accel" is because MS batched most of the stock libraries. That's a big part of what "accellerated" us, so drawcall batching is not a bad thing. A special case like this boat is no problem but generally non-batched models should be used sparingly.
 
#15
Thanks you all, I've understood the concept behind and therefore shall use these non-batchable models wisely, scarcely and with much discernment. :wave:
 
#16
I use that all sailboats tilt because it looks reality from life. Wind against the sail. The boat should be tilt a little bit more. I love to see that scenery sailboat on lake or ocean near airport.

Stuart
 
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