Portion of Terminal Building is Underground

[kmanning]

Hi, Arno,

I have my terminal building install in the sim but exactly 40 feet of the building is underground. Why is that? Here's the image:

I think I may know what the problem is and I wanted to confirm that. Below is my terminal project in Sketchup:

Is it because I don't have a flat ground for the model to reference to so Sketchup would know where the zero ground level is? It appears that Sketchup thinks the roof is at zero ground level. I did have a google earth map but I deleted it so that it would not be a part of the scenery. The origin looks to me it's in the correct place and I always thought that MCX uses that origin to determine it's position and altitude reference. Does the origin also determine the altitude as well as position? The AGL box is checked in MCX so the terminal should be sitting right on the ground.

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

If you post the placement BGL, we can decompile it and see what the assigned Altitude is for that 3D model.

PS: What utility did you use to place that 3D model (ex: MCX, ADE, Instant Scenery) ?

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

Hi Ken:

If you post the placement BGL, we can decompile it and see what the assigned Altitude is for that 3D model.

PS: What utility did you use to place that 3D model (ex: MCX, ADE, Instant Scenery) ?

GaryGB

Hi Gary,

I used the Convert and Place Object Wizard in MCX. I'm not sure, but if you're referring to decompiling the bgl to an xml, I've did that and it shows that it's at 0 feet AGL, and AGL is set to True. The bgl file is below.

Ken.

 

[tgibson]

I hate to say this because it doesn't find the problem, but did you try setting the elevation at 40 ft AGL?

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

I suspect a G-Poly placement or flatten anomaly affecting terrain Altitude rendering relative to the KCLT ARP Altitude, as BGLComp XML placement and Sketchup object 3D world datum position for your new terminal 3D model are both OK:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<!-- Created by Scenery Design Engine (SDE) on 5/14/2020 -->
<FSData
   version="9.0"
   xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
   xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd">
   <SceneryObject
      lat="35.2223895862699"
      lon="-80.9481681883335"
      alt="0.0M"
      altitudeIsAgl="TRUE"
      pitch="0"
      bank="0"
      heading="355.995483398438"
      imageComplexity="VERY_SPARSE">
      <LibraryObject
         name="{4bc95466-6090-4587-83d9-07754c692326}"
         scale="1.00"
         />
   </SceneryObject>
   <!-- Model Name: KCLT New Terminal 1 -->
   <ModelData
      sourceFile="[path]\kmanning_KCLT_Terminal\Scenery\4bc95466-6090-4587-83d9-07754c692326.mdl"
      fileOffset="0"/>
</FSData>

Do you have a ADE "*_ALT.BGL" for KCLT in ex:

[FSX install path]\Flight Simulator X\Scenery\World\Scenery\

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

I hate to say this because it doesn't find the problem, but did you try setting the elevation at 40 ft AGL?

Hi Tom,

Not yet. That was going to be my next step, but I found the problem. I'll explain it in the next post.

Ken.

 

[kmanning]

Hi Ken:

I suspect a G-Poly placement or flatten anomaly affecting terrain Altitude rendering relative to the KCLT ARP Altitude, as BGLComp XML placement and Sketchup object 3D world datum position for your new terminal 3D model are both OK:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<!-- Created by Scenery Design Engine (SDE) on 5/14/2020 -->
<FSData
   version="9.0"
   xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
   xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd">
   <SceneryObject
      lat="35.2223895862699"
      lon="-80.9481681883335"
      alt="0.0M"
      altitudeIsAgl="TRUE"
      pitch="0"
      bank="0"
      heading="355.995483398438"
      imageComplexity="VERY_SPARSE">
      <LibraryObject
         name="{4bc95466-6090-4587-83d9-07754c692326}"
         scale="1.00"
         />
   </SceneryObject>
   <!-- Model Name: KCLT New Terminal 1 -->
   <ModelData
      sourceFile="[path]\kmanning_KCLT_Terminal\Scenery\4bc95466-6090-4587-83d9-07754c692326.mdl"
      fileOffset="0"/>
</FSData>

Do you have a ADE "*_ALT.BGL" for KCLT in ex:

[FSX install path]\Flight Simulator X\Scenery\World\Scenery\

GaryGB

Hi Gary,

Yes, I've looked into both, the default KCLT and the FSDT KCLT. The airport runways, or elevation, as well as the airport reference data in ADE is 748 feet MSL for both the default and the FSDT. I unchecked the FSDT KCLT in the Scenery Library so that only the default is rendered. Sure enough, my terminal was perfectly right on the ground as it should be. Here's what I've found:

I was fortunate that I was able to get underground, that is, under the parking deck where all the cars are parked and where my terminal is placed in the FSDT KCLT airport. Of course, this is no longer a parking deck but is a ramp for jet planes. Take note of the image below:

As you can see, this was the old parking space. Now, take a look at what's under, or below this parking deck in the image below:

Do you notice the sloped terrain? All the cars are now about 40 in mid space. This looks like this is where the problem lies. For some reason, the 0 feet AGL is 40 feet below the actual airport elevation. Why is this sloped terrain 40 feet below the parking deck in the first place when the terrain level of 0 feet AGL should be at the level of the parking deck? That's what I don't understand. The only thing I know to do is to place it 40 feet AGL in the convert and place object wizard in MCX. Do I need to uncheck the box and put in the airport elevation of 748 feet? Or is there another way? Is there a way to place that 0 feet reference at the parking deck level in the FSDT?

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

The proper definitions for aviation as used in USA, at least, is here: (...this is, after all, a "Flight Simulator" )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altitude

• Absolute altitude is the vertical distance of the aircraft above the terrain over which it is flying. It can be measured using a radar altimeter (or "absolute altimeter").[1] Also referred to as "radar height" or feet/metres above ground level (AGL).
• True altitude is the actual elevation above mean sea level. It is indicated altitude corrected for non-standard temperature and pressure."

Unfortunately, in the MCX G-Poly Wizard, "absolute altitude" refers to AMSL- rather than AGL.

IIRC, in one of Don Grovestine's FS utilities "absolute altitude" also refers to AMSL- rather than AGL.


I'm not certain if there may be a different use of that term "absolute altitude" in Europe or Canada ?

Regardless, I believe the above definition should be used in the FS Development "Aviation" Community.


BTW: Did you output a legacy SCASM / ASM G-Poly with Z-Bias ...instead of a P3Dv4.x MDL-based G-Poly ?


FSDT apparently forces 3D MDL objects to assume elevations relative to its custom G-Poly "Platform" surfaces.


GaryGB

G-Polys are 3D objects 'placed' in very close proximity to local ground surfaces ...with- or without- Z-Bias applied.

SDK Resample is a raster processing compiler capable of writing vector placement into BGLs; AFAIK, it does not output 3D models that can be imported by MCX; for that one would use SCASM / ASM or MDL -based compilers.

FSDT does, however use MDL-based SimObjects (with- or without- "Platforms") as G-Polys, which it places at assigned elevations via 1 or more Python-based proprietary FS Modules.

[EDITED]

In some cases the FSDT MDL-based SimObjects are multi-planar, and only certain faces of the overall 3D object are configured to have "Platforms" via AttachPoints in order to function as G-Polys where the 3D object is to be "on ground",

Technically, FSDT MDL-based SimObject G-Polys with Sim.Cfg files 'could' be configured to work as BGLComp-compiled scenery objects and be 'placed' via BGLComp-type or Autogen type XML methods, or conditionally display as AI / Ground Traffic, user-operated standard- or Multi-Player- aircraft, custom Control Towers (... or even as "UFOs").

[END_EDIT]

GaryGB

Hi Ken:

When I get FSDT KCLT demo installed, I will post a further explanation of what I believe may be needed to solve this.

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

My results verify yours as described above:

kmanning_KCLT_New_Terminal_Anomaly_FSDT_KCLT_Demo_ON

kmanning_KCLT_New_Terminal_Anomaly_FSDT_KCLT_Demo_OFF

Now to identify the FSDT G-Poly flat 3D MDL with a animated Platform ground surface that "moves" down 40 Feet when the demo 'times out'.

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

Hi Gary,

I have my new terminal placed at the correct altitude now. I just unchecked the AGL box and entered the ADE airport elevation, which is 227.99 meters, or 747.99 feet. I have 2 more buildings to add, and I'll post them later. Here's the image:

At least we know that the sinking is caused from the G poly from below the parking space. But I should would like to know why there's a ground poly below the parking space in the first place. I've checked to be sure that I did not have any other KCLT related files installed. I'm going to check in the P3D sim and see if it has a ground poly below the parking space, and see if it places the terminal 40 feet below the deck. While I have this image posted, I wanted to ask what is the best way to get rid of all those trees, cars buildings, and other objects that need to be removed? I thought about excluding these but I don't think that's possible, and they would have to be in ADE. Another thing I've thought of is to remove those texture images from the FSDT KCLT folder, but would have to determine the correct ones. The problem one runs into is that removing a texture that has objects that one wants to remove cover a wide area of other textures that one doesn't want to remove. Below are top view images of changes that I would need to make. Below is the current FSDT KCLT top view:

The building with the blue top roof is the new terminal. Below is the latest satellite view I can find of the almost completed construction work:

All of the dirt you see near the runway and south of the terminal is filled in. So, this is the project I will need to work on. But I like to know what's the best way to do this.


Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

While I have this image posted, I wanted to ask what is the best way to get rid of all those trees, cars buildings, and other objects that need to be removed?

I thought about excluding these but I don't think that's possible, and they would have to be in ADE. Another thing I've thought of is to remove those texture images from the FSDT KCLT folder, but would have to determine the correct ones.

The problem one runs into is that removing a texture that has objects that one wants to remove cover a wide area of other textures that one doesn't want to remove.

So, this is the project I will need to work on. But I like to know what's the best way to do this.


Ken.

IIUC, those are scenery library objects dynamically loaded by FSDT Addon Manager proprietary modules; you will need to contact them for KCLT product tech support to ask whether they may be excluded via a BGLComp XML exclusion Rectangle, and if not, how they may be excluded via another means available to you as an end user.

Thus, AFAIK, those scenery library objects are not placed via ADE project output BGLs.


I suggest that you may wish to use custom photo-real land class textures rather than G-Polys for non-navigable / non-airport object areas by the new terminal.

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

IIUC, those are scenery library objects dynamically loaded by FSDT Addon Manager proprietary modules; you will need to contact them for KCLT product tech support to ask whether they may be excluded via a BGLComp XML exclusion Rectangle, and if not, how they may be excluded via another means available to you as an end user.

I'm thinking these are in the FSDT\addon manager\simobjects\misc\FSDT KCLT folder with the mdl files. But it would take forever to find which one it is. I did temporarily removed 2 of the textures files for the cars and the trees, and they no longer showed up in the sim. I may contact FSDT and see if they would tell me anything. I really doubt it.

Thus, AFAIK, those scenery library objects are not placed via ADE project output BGLs.

No, I would not think so.

I suggest that you may wish to use custom photo-real land class textures rather than G-Polys for non-navigable / non-airport object areas by the new terminal.

I know in SbuildingX there is an exclusion icon, but I'm not sure if that would exclude that area or not. I've tried to create an exclusion using a map but when I tried to compile it, I get an error, and exclusion was highlighted. So, I don't understand why I'm getting the error. It might be better to make a custom photo-real texture, but the details don't show up very well. I think what I'll do is make a photo-real of the area ramp and taxiways in Sketchup and replace the ground with the same textures used in KCLT so that they'll match. Actually, that new area is a lighter blend of color than the one used in FSDT KCLT.

I have a question I need to ask about Instant Scenery 3. Do I need to go to flight1 forum or do you, or anyone, know how to use it?

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

I know in SbuildingX there is an exclusion icon, but I'm not sure if that would exclude that area or not. I've tried to create an exclusion using a map but when I tried to compile it, I get an error, and exclusion was highlighted. So, I don't understand why I'm getting the error. It might be better to make a custom photo-real texture, but the details don't show up very well. I think what I'll do is make a photo-real of the area ramp and taxiways in Sketchup and replace the ground with the same textures used in KCLT so that they'll match. Actually, that new area is a lighter blend of color than the one used in FSDT KCLT.

IMHO, it is easier to make an Exclusion Rectangle with Instant Scenery.

I have a question I need to ask about Instant Scenery 3. Do I need to go to flight1 forum or do you, or anyone, know how to use it?

Ken.

I have fairly extensive experience in working with Instant Scenery 3, so feel free to ask about that here.

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

Hi Gary,

Well, I finally got my new KCLT terminal project installed. I've mentioned that my next project is to remove the trees, the parking spaces, cars, and other buildings that are no longer there. You mentioned that it would be easier to make an exclusion rectangle in Instant Scenery. I've looked over the manual on adding exclusions and I got to say that it simply does not go into enough details. It has no pictures and only explains it in only a few words that really do not explain, and is not in a logical order. It tells you to do something and what it explains is not present, nor nowhere to be found. Anyway, I'm trying to see if I can exclude the parking spaces with the cars, trees, and all the buildings. Here's the image:

The thing I don't like about it is that the exclusion rectangle cannot be rotated and it only works in a north/south direction. On page 24 under Adding Exclusion Rectangles and the 3rd paragraph, the author starts off by using the words "to edit.," First of all, the exclusion rectangle has not even been created, so "to edit" is not the correct choice of words when there's no exclusion rectangle to edit. Then on page 25 in the first paragraph, he says, "use the context menu to add the exclusion rectangle to the scenery file." What scenery file? Is it the FSDT KCLT scenery file or is it my new terminal scenery file, or what scenery file? I've never had such a hard time trying to figure out how to use a program as I have this one. When I right click, it says "Add to file." The question is, in what file and where do I put it when the Save window pops up?

I've followed those instructions and added the exclusion rectangle but all the cars, trees, buildings, and parking space still remain. So, either this does not cover or remove these type of objects or I did not do it correctly. But I think I did it correctly. I wish they would make it possible to rotate the rectangle. What I want to do is to get rid of all the cars, the parking spaces, tress, and all objects that are no longer there, and make a new ramp

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

The FS SDK terrain quad grid on which all scenery must be loaded and rendered at run time, results in 3D world axes always being precisely on a N-S, E-W alignment.

When working with Exclusion Rectangles via IS3, ADE, SBuilderX or any other FS utility, ones Rectangle alignment will always be drawn on these "Cardinal" axes of the 3D world.


One may use several smaller Rectangles to achieve more precise excludes of scenery objects (ADE purposely computes / implements 'micro-excludes' for this reason when importing BGLs).

One only needs to surround the RefPoint at the central datum of the 3D object to achieve exclusion (assuming this goal, one makes such Rectangles no larger than the Base of 3D objects).


You may wish to review this thread (...and the threads linked at SimForums within that thread) which discusses how to exclude 3D scenery objects using Instant Scenery:

Really new to Airport design - AutoGen Exclusion

I have searched the forum trying to find info on what I am trying to do even though I am not sure what I am trying to do. I want to remove all of the stock (auto-gen the same?) buildings and replace with other scenery like from ez-scenery.

www.fsdeveloper.com

Really new to Airport design - AutoGen Exclusion

I have searched the forum trying to find info on what I am trying to do even though I am not sure what I am trying to do. I want to remove all of the stock (auto-gen the same?) buildings and replace with other scenery like from ez-scenery.

www.fsdeveloper.com

I previously posted a walk-through of how Instant Scenery prompts to save results of its scenery operations into BGL files, and whether / how to choose the file into which it saves ...here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/instant-scenery-3.441046/post-781411

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

Hi Ken:

The FS SDK terrain quad grid on which all scenery must be loaded and rendered at run time, results in 3D world axes always being precisely on a N-S, E-W alignment.

When working with Exclusion Rectangles via IS3, ADE, SBuilderX or any other FS utility, ones Rectangle alignment will always be drawn on these "Cardinal" axes of the 3D world.

I see now. That's why it's a few degrees off from how I wanted it to line up. But even when I exclude in IS3, the objects and parking spaces still remain. Does it matter what type of files, rather they are bgls or mdls that IS3 exclusion will exclude or remove?

I previously posted a walk-through of how Instant Scenery prompts to save results of its scenery operations into BGL files, and whether / how to choose the file into which it saves ...here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/instant-scenery-3.441046/post-781411

It seemed like we did discussed Instant Scenery 3 in the past, but I couldn't remember. That's when I was trying to place a jetway for the terminal.

But here's the thing I want to make sure I understand, and I got to thinking about this. You were discussing placement codes, and that got me to thinking that I have not been placing my bgl files correctly. From what I understand now, I should let IS3 place the object and not assign placement code to my bgl, such as coordinates, altitude, ext... What I've been doing is in MCX, I use the Convert and Placement Tool to place my bgl object into FS, and I would enter the coordinates, heading, altitude information and compile it. So, my question is am I supposed to compile my bgl object without the placement information, such as the coordinates and altitude and allow IS3 to make that placement? It doesn't seem to make sense to add the placement information in MCX and IS3 do the same thing, which will likely be slightly different.

Another question is that does it matter where I export the bgl from MCX, for example, the Addon Scenery folder or the Addon Scenery/scenery folder? And I do know not to add any of the IS3 files into any airport files. And many times, my bgl object would never show up in IS3 list of objects. These are the 2 main questions I have.

Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

when I exclude in IS3, the objects and parking spaces still remain. Does it matter what type of files, rather they are bgls or mdls that IS3 exclusion will exclude or remove?

They must be 3D MDLs packaged inside of a BGLComp-XML compiled scenery library format BGL ...with- or without- placement info in that same BGL.

If the placement info is not located inside that same ('hybrid') BGL, it may be compiled into a separate 'placement' BGL instead.

So, my question is am I supposed to compile my bgl object without the placement information, such as the coordinates and altitude and allow IS3 to make that placement?

Yes.

Another question is that does it matter where I export the bgl from MCX, for example, the Addon Scenery folder or the Addon Scenery/scenery folder?

Excludes for 3D MDLs packaged inside of a BGLComp-XML compiled scenery library format BGL must be located in an active scenery Area layer in Scenery Library GUI, positioned at least (1) layer above the objects they are intended to exclude (...which are placed by a BGL in an Area layer below).

And many times, my bgl object would never show up in IS3 list of objects. These are the 2 main questions I have.

Ken.

If you have an example of 3D MDLs packaged inside of a BGLComp-XML compiled scenery library format BGL that also have a separate accompanying placement BGL that is not showing up in IS3, attach it here and we may be able to sort out why it does not appear.

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

They must be 3D MDLs packaged inside of a BGLComp-XML compiled scenery library format BGL ...with- or without- placement info in that same BGL.

Yes, they're mdls. Just about everything you see in a FSDT scenery is an mdl. The buildings, the cars, the trees, the fences, everything is a model. These mdls are not in the same folder as the bgl Scenery folder. They're in C:\Addon Manager\Simobjects\Misc\FSDT_KCLT\. Remember the KDFW Scenery I was working on regarding the wrong parking numbers painted on the ground? This here is the same. Here's the mdl for this airport, but I don't know why it's so dark :

If I turn on, or click Use Complex Shader, it looks a little better, but everything flickers when I move the model around:

kmanning said:
Another question is that does it matter where I export the bgl from MCX, for example, the Addon Scenery folder or the Addon Scenery/scenery folder?

On my second question, I was asking that when I convert a model to a bgl from MCX, or from the Library Maker, where do I send that bgl file to so that IS3 finds it, or show up in the list?

Excludes for 3D MDLs packaged inside of a BGLComp-XML compiled scenery library format BGL must be located in an active scenery Area layer in Scenery Library GUI, positioned at least (1) layer above the objects they are intended to exclude (...which are placed by a BGL in an Area layer below).

I'm not sure what you mean when you say, "packaged inside of a bglCompXML. Are you referring to the data information at the bottom of an xml file that has something like:

<ModelData
sourceFile=""
fileOffset="0"/>
</FSData>

If you have an example of 3D MDLs packaged inside of a BGLComp-XML compiled scenery library format BGL that also have an accompanying placement BGL that is not showing up in IS3, attach it here and we may be able to sort out why it does not appear.

Is this the one you're referring to?, see below KCLT Exclusion.bgl:

I've tried to decompile it, or convert to an xml but it keeps saying "Value cannot be null. Parameter name: filename.

You may be referring to this one, KCLT Ground Poly for Ramp.bgl which is the new ramp to cover the old parking deck:


Ken.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Ken:

If you have an example of a 3D MDL packaged inside of a scenery library format BGL output by MCX or Library Maker that also has a separate accompanying placement BGL which is not showing up in the IS3 list of available scenery library BGLs, please attach or link to it here, so I can take a look at it in FSX and/or P3Dv4.5.


Also, if you have a 3D model which is in a "hybrid" BGL output by MCX (meaning it contains the 3D model as a MDL and its placement code inside the same physical file) which is not showing up in the IS3 list of available scenery library BGLs, please attach or link to it here, so I can take a look at it in FSX and/or P3Dv4.5.

GaryGB

 

[kmanning]

Hi Ken:

If you have an example of a 3D MDL packaged inside of a scenery library format BGL output by MCX or Library Maker that also has a separate accompanying placement BGL which is not showing up in the IS3 list of available scenery library BGLs, please attach or link to it here, so I can take a look at it in FSX and/or P3Dv4.5.


Also, if you have a 3D model which is in a "hybrid" BGL output by MCX (meaning it contains the 3D model as a MDL and its placement code inside the same physical file) which is not showing up in the IS3 list of available scenery library BGLs, please attach or link to it here, so I can take a look at it in FSX and/or P3Dv4.5.

GaryGB

Hi Gary,

I guess I should explain that my bgls are now showing up in the list of available scenery bgls, output by the Library Maker. I don't know if it makes a difference, and I don't think it does now, but I'm placing my bgls in the Addon Scenery\scenery folder. Previously, I was placing my bgls in the Addon Scenery folder in a subfolder with an object name, such as KCLT New Terminal.bgl or KCLT ground poly.bgl, inside the Scenery folder, which also has a Texture folder for the textures. Previously when I exported my bgls from MCX, I would put in the coordinates, altitude, and heading using the Convert Object and Placement Wizard, which I understand now puts placement code in that bgl, and what I've should have done was exported it as an mdl, and use the Library Maker to compile it without the placement code. But I would always export them as bgls with the coordinates, altitude, and heading from MCX. I was also unsure as to where I was supposed to place the bgls. I hope that explains what I was referring to when I asked that question. When I launch FSX and IS3 inside the sim, and the list of bgls come up, the object I've just placed in the Scenery folder inside the Addon Scenery folder would not show up in the list. I've also noticed that after I added the file to the scenery library in FSX, the bgl then shows up in the list in IS3. Of course, that scenery cannot be edited because it's already placed and compiled. I can go to the list and grab the bgl but that would place another identical scenery. So, from what I understand now, anytime I add placement code in the bgl, that bgl will not show up in the list of available bgls in IS3. The only time I would want to put placement code in the bgl is when I'm not using IS3. I hope I got this straight now.

Before I go any farther, I wanted to show you this image, and in this image, I have all the cars, trees, buildings, and the main mdl removed from the scenery so that only what's below is clear:

This is the sloped terrain I've talked about earlier, but without all the other things in the way. The model lays right on top of this. As you can see, since the model is removed, my terminal with the blue roof is suspended 40 feet above the sloped terrain and the new longer section connected to the main terminal is right on the ground where it's not sloped. This terrain is not seen when the model is in place in the original scenery. So the question is why is this terrain 40 feet below the model and why is it there in the first place? I think I may know why it was placed there. Take a look at the image below:

This is supposed to be a puddle of water and if you look carefully, you can see what's below that water puddle, which I have marked by the red squares. You may not be able to tell it in this photo, but when I move around, I can see that I'm looking down at the terrain below, and it's suppose to give it a reflective appearance. When I place my aircraft below the model, I can see I'm looking at the same image that's reflected off the water puddle above. So, that seems to explain their reason for this slope and for the image below. Now look at this strange image:

I don't know why but the ground is not laid out evenly. You can now clearly see the terrain that's below.


Now about placing my new ramp using IS3. I think I've mentioned that I've been trying to add my new ramp, or tarmac. But I've been having a hard time trying to place it using the IS3, not because I can't place it, but because of either how the ground is laid out or all of the flickering that's in the original FSDT KCLT mdl. Here's an image of that model with the Shaders turned on in MCX so that you can see the model:

When you orbit around the model in MCX, it flickers a lot, and I don't understand why that is. But I'm thinking that this is the reason for the problem I'm having with placing my ramp. See the image below:

Do you notice how some of the ramp is missing, where it's jagged? That particular area is going below the model while the area at the bottom is actually a little above the model. It's not perfectly flat at all. So, I guess this particular area where the new ramp will be laying needs to be excluded, and I haven't been able to exclude that area. I'll attach both the ramp and the exclusion bgls and maybe you can find out if there's anything wrong.

Ken.