• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

    • Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
    • Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
    • Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
    • Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
    • Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
    • Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.

    Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.

    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

Probably OT, but I'm puzzled...

Messages
608
Country
germany
While working on my Scenery Object Library, replacing quite a lot of entries with less cryptical descriptions, I tumbled often about a fact that I never really realized in all that years I'm using ADE now. Why many libraries are addressing objects that should be used to keep cloths in a wardrobe or cabinet or to hang something on something (I mean "hangers")? It seems to be kinda systematic with only a few exceptions using the (for me) correct expression "hangar" for a building to park or maintain airplanes. Just for curiosity: Is it one of those language differences between countries being divided by using the same language?

I would be happy if anybody could enlighten me why this wording is used. BTW, I like to stress that it's neither my intention playing the troll nor to offend anybody.
 
Messages
840
Country
indonesia
I would have thought you'd have known that ;)
Hangarage, germanic meaning hamlet or enclosure.
 
Messages
608
Country
germany
I would have thought you'd have known that ;)
Hangarage, germanic meaning hamlet or enclosure.
Chris, you got the point. In my opinion using the word "hangar" would be correct. Nevertheless, the majority of developers building objects and libraries used "hanger" instead (even if this "common use" wasn't introduced by Microsoft) and I just wondered why???.
By the way, in German the word "Hangar" is not part of the common language, but "re-imported" from France (despite its Frankish origin) about two centuries ago for military use, even though well known and used more or less exclusively in connection with aviation today.
 

tgibson

Resource contributor
Messages
11,343
Country
us-california
Hi,

In all English speaking countries I'm aware of, hangar is the correct spelling. It's just another example of the slackening in the usage in the language, which causes the language to evolve. If it didn't, we would still be using thee and thou. :)

One of my nits is the use of loose instead of lose. Loose means not tight, while lose means that you have lost something. If this continues, eventually they will be synonyms with multiple meanings...
 

n4gix

Resource contributor
Messages
11,674
Country
unitedstates
Tom, for my entire life I've had to stop and think whether to write hangar or hanger... It's an easy mistake to make, even for us "native speakers." :stirthepo
 
Messages
608
Country
germany
Hi guys,
Concluding this, nobody took care of the spelling in the past, and taking Bill's own experience, we won't get rid of this. However, I'll continue my internal correction tour (by renaming it in ADE's data base).
@tgibson: Tom, it's in German the same. There is one word in the past being introduced by a journalist a while ago standing for the English term "hesitant". I would translate it with "zögernd", being an adjective with exact the same meaning as the new invention "zögerlich". Meanwhile it's part of our "language Bible", the "Duden". Nonetheless, each time someone uses it my hair still stands on end. :yikes:
 

=rk=

Resource contributor
Messages
4,485
Country
us-washington
Tom, for my entire life I've had to stop and think whether to write hangar or hanger... It's an easy mistake to make, even for us "native speakers."
This is what Tom means by lose and loose. Who cares how it spells or who invented the name so long as it adequately identifies it's target. The alternative is that we rigidly use thee and thou and have no terms whatsoever for anything invented since electricity was tamed. "Thine wrist ornament sparkles with a fire that burns in a likeness to yonder sundial."
Eventually - and this would also happen with the lose/loose comparison - a new word will be chosen that distinguishes the two. Instead of telling someone to, "go throw that shirt on the hang'r," anticipating the inevitable question, "the clothing hang'r or the airplane hang'r" and replying, "the one made out of copper from the defunct electrical generation grid that used to power a former civilization;" the statement will go something like, "go throw that shirt on the wire."

"The wire that brings electricity down from from the lightning rods, or the wire hanging in the closet?"

Nonetheless, each time someone uses it my hair still stands on end.

This makes me think of the issue the stone cutters must have faced. "But papyrus melts in rainwater, it BURNS for Zeus' sake, what are you people thinking?!?" It always made me want a tablet shaped like a, you know, stone tablet. Ya, no, we still use stone monuments and grave markers and they do last well with little maintenance.
A similar situation occurred with the introduction of "the cloud." "But if we put all our history books into the cloud, it makes it that much easier to rewrite history." "Nonsense," says Google and Bill Gates. One of the books we store in the cloud is titled, "Fahrenheit 451." The title is the temperature at which paper burns and the story is about censorship with the juxtaposition that firemen remain pillars of society by burning all literature, thus preserving order. All good, so far, but then Amazon had to go and release a tablet called "The Kindle," great, meaning not so great.
 
Messages
608
Country
germany
Ray Bradbury had written a rather political SF novel and one of the best ever. He connected the already known experiences with regimes suppressing the freedom of opinion (most prominent when the book was published in 1953, the German Nazi regime and what happened in the Soviet Union) with a dystopic interpolation of a development in the US during that time - the pray upon (so defamed) "communists" initiated by Senator McCarthy. Unfortunately this book is still as up-to-date as in the past when it first appeared in the book shelves. For me it stands in one row with "1984" and "Brave New World".

Who cares how it spells or who invented the name so long as it adequately identifies it's target.
Of course you are right - who cares? Language is redundant, specifically in its spoken form, and as it seems, our beginning ability communicating with our "little helpers" verbally only might be the beginning end of the cultural skills of reading and writing (what are a couple of thousand years in history?).

Rick, I completely agree that language ever changed and developed (not least because of cultural mixtures) and I can tell you that my discussion in this regard with my (adult) daughter revealed that she understands both words in my own example in a slightly different sense. Of course I can accept this, but it doesn't change my own feeling in this respect.

However, my intention wasn't initiating a philosophical discussion here. I just wondered why the spelling "hanger" is so popular in the community instead of the correct one "hangar". I think we're definitely now off topic. :scratchch :tapedshut
 

tgibson

Resource contributor
Messages
11,343
Country
us-california
My only problem with improper usage is that it just bothers me to see it. I'm not sure why, and it probably shouldn't happen. But it does, so I try to point it out to people - hopefully people take it as an FYI, and not a nag...
 
Messages
554
Country
us-california
Yes, I too have questioned myself on "Hangar" each time I see it spelled "Hanger", likewise many other words such as predator, terminator, etc. Spellchecker is my friend.

When I lived in Thailand I agreed to take over the English classes a grad student from Holland had taught for a group of Burmese ethnic minority refugee children. "How hard can that be", I thought.

That evening someone handed me the workbook she had been using, and all of the sudden I was confronted with word like nouns, pronouns, verbs, syntax, adjectives, blah blah blah which I hadn't given a thought since I was a child, and phrases to be taught to the children such as "Peter and Maria went to the market to buy bread and wine". I thought, "That will be just what these kids in a jungle village need to learn". The children I was to teach not only knew very little English, but they themselves spoke several languages, none of which I understood at all.

Well I must say that before securing my mosquito net that night I did what most condemned men do, and prayed to my Heavenly Father for deliverance from my predicament. Surprisingly, I was moved to throw in the towel on the workbook and decided to go old school. Since the people I was staying with received many foreigners each week from around the world, I would start off with the basics...communication, because many visitors may not speak English.

Hangar and Hanger would take a lot of explaining and a whiteboard to demonstrate the differences, yet in a phone conversation there would be no problems, so rather than to go to all of that trouble for English when it was impossible for me to explain in their languages, I decided to teach them first to communicate.

For example, point to your stomach with a pained look on your face, you are saying "I have a stomach ache" in pretty much any language. Likewise anything that hurts, your head, your tooth, your foot.
Make a spooning motion towards your mouth, along with a shrug of the shoulders and a questioning look on your face and you are saying, "when do we eat?" Point to someone giving them the same motions and you are asking if they are hungry. This was really successful because the children knew instinctively what I was trying to communicate, and that any visitors communicating thusly should be directed to someone older who could help them.

I had on a prior visit brought a dozen or so boxes of English flash cards with words and pictures so they could see it and say it, as well as some basic math. This had worked for me in learning Spanish words over the years, and although I speak sentences in Spanish like a child, once someone knows I am cobbling things together they can usually understand me just fine.

Back to hangers and hangars, when someone who is not a native speaker of English speaks to me about Fred, and calls Fred "she", I don't need to derail the conversation to correct them, because the context told me everything I needed to know. For the kids in Thailand, I did spend some sessions showing how words could sound or be spelled alike but mean different things, one that comes to mind is the word "BOW", which I demonstrated with drawings on a white board by drawing the knot, the front of a boat, a person bending slightly forward at the waist, the weapon which fires an arrow,.......my artwork had them rolling on the floor laughing.

Ten years later many of those kids write to me on FB, and we can still communicate, and all of the flash cards are still being used by visitors to help the latest refugee children learn words in English.

. "Thine wrist ornament sparkles with a fire that burns in a likeness to yonder sundial."

ROFL Rick!

Cheers
Gary
 

n4gix

Resource contributor
Messages
11,674
Country
unitedstates
Since we're off-topic anyway, I'll just throw one of my "pet peeves." To wit, those who insist on placing themselves first when enumerating a list of people, and then go on to compound the linguistic felony by using the wrong personal pronoun!

For example: "Me and my friends went to the movies." instead of "My friends and I went to the movies."

I learned proper grammar in this instance while still in pre-school (Beaver Academy of the Arts). I was fortunate enough to have an excellent old-school teacher who made this very simple. She told us that there are two simple rules to apply:
  1. Always place others in such a list first. It is the polite thing to do anyway.
  2. Leave everyone out other than yourself and then see if it sounds silly. If so, then you've chosen the wrong pronoun!
Surely even the dumbest of folks would never say "Me went to the movies..." :stirthepo
 
Last edited:
Messages
608
Country
germany
  • Always place other's in such a list first. It is the polite thing to do anyway.
  • Leave everyone out other than yourself and then see if it sounds silly. If so, then you've chosen the wrong pronoun!
Works in other languages, too. :D
 

tgibson

Resource contributor
Messages
11,343
Country
us-california
I too check the little flag next to their name and don't say anything if it is not an English speaking country, good point.
 
Top