-
Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:
- Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
- Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
- Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
- Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
- Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
- Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.
Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.
By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.
MSFS Prop( wash ) effects on yaw / roll...
- Thread starter jcomm
- Start date
Put tables into;
Code:
yaw_moment_aoa_table = 0:0
yaw_moment_slip_angle_aoa_table = 0:1
yaw_moment_yaw_rate_aoa_table = 0:1
yaw_moment_delta_rudder_aoa_table = 0:1
yaw_moment_slip_angle_mach_table = 0:0
yaw_moment_delta_rudder_mach_table = 0:0
yaw_moment_delta_aileron_mach_table = 0:0- Messages
- 17
- Country
-
Hi L3MON. Those tables are not explained by the SDK or in the flight_model.cfg file. Some of them are probably in radians and others are in degrees, but it seems impossible to find out which, and the y values could be tiny decimals or whole numbers. Maybe you know something I don't. Can you give an example of a specimen table you've worked on?
- Messages
- 69
- Country
-
Indeed @L3M0N and @robert young , they're not documented, and only chance we get to see them filled with some values is by enabling Dev Mode and then in the Aircraft Editor enabling the "Legacy window" to open...
It'll show at the bottom of the variable list these tables as "calculated" through the new "Modern FDM" approach.
Unfortunately to the moment SDK documentation lacks a LOT. Some variables which I and Alexis found on the Extra CFG are unknown to us from previous versions of the MS Simulator, just as, for example:
- controls_reactivity_scalar = 10 ; Make surfaces 10x more reactive on this plane because we can roll up to 10x faster than with regular planes...
- predicted_moi_density_scalar_fuselage = 0.5
- predicted_moi_density_scalar_wings = 0.5
It'll show at the bottom of the variable list these tables as "calculated" through the new "Modern FDM" approach.
Unfortunately to the moment SDK documentation lacks a LOT. Some variables which I and Alexis found on the Extra CFG are unknown to us from previous versions of the MS Simulator, just as, for example:
- controls_reactivity_scalar = 10 ; Make surfaces 10x more reactive on this plane because we can roll up to 10x faster than with regular planes...
- predicted_moi_density_scalar_fuselage = 0.5
- predicted_moi_density_scalar_wings = 0.5
Last edited:
- Messages
- 17
- Country
-
Thanks jcomm. I hadn't thought of monitoring the tables through the editor legacy window. Thanks for that tip. I get a lot of bashing from others at Avsim on this, but so far I cannot see any advantage in the new system over the FSX system. I don't have any bias either way - my work has always been based on "what works in practice" rather than "this is new so must be better".
Let me cite just one example. There is a roll vs aoa table in FS2020 which at the moment is not used by default aircraft. I can clearly see why. It is a very crude approximation of several legacy FSX parameters which when combined well, promote a very convincing wing drop and subsequent spin. I have used this method for many years and though it needs many hours of fine tuning it works. The default small aircraft do display a roll/wing drop at high angles of attack without that table being activated, but it looks so fake and artificial as though someone said "I know - when aircraft X reaches 15 degrees aoa we'll make it suddenly drop a wing". It is as subtle as a brick through a window.
In FSX/P3d you can combine dihedral/roll stability/yaw stability/roll moment vs aoa etc etc so that they provide a very persuasive wing drop and with other params a proper spin (where the nose "tucks under" the wing drop). At the moment the GA aircraft in FS2020 do not spin. It is fake. They actually enter a spiral dive and are prevented from going through VNE by another crude solution - the grossly exaggerated induced drag scalar. A proper spin is unmistakeable to the trained eye, but it isn't there in the default aircraft.
No doubt I will learn more and more in the next few weeks and might change my mind, but so far, the multiple lift points are just Public Relations, and I simply do not believe there is anything revolutionary going on. The tables as presented are nowhere near as flexible as the FSX air file offered. They have take away a lot of detail but added what appear to me to be pointless and crude tables, a classic example being your example of - controls_reactivity_scalar = 10 !!
Let me cite just one example. There is a roll vs aoa table in FS2020 which at the moment is not used by default aircraft. I can clearly see why. It is a very crude approximation of several legacy FSX parameters which when combined well, promote a very convincing wing drop and subsequent spin. I have used this method for many years and though it needs many hours of fine tuning it works. The default small aircraft do display a roll/wing drop at high angles of attack without that table being activated, but it looks so fake and artificial as though someone said "I know - when aircraft X reaches 15 degrees aoa we'll make it suddenly drop a wing". It is as subtle as a brick through a window.
In FSX/P3d you can combine dihedral/roll stability/yaw stability/roll moment vs aoa etc etc so that they provide a very persuasive wing drop and with other params a proper spin (where the nose "tucks under" the wing drop). At the moment the GA aircraft in FS2020 do not spin. It is fake. They actually enter a spiral dive and are prevented from going through VNE by another crude solution - the grossly exaggerated induced drag scalar. A proper spin is unmistakeable to the trained eye, but it isn't there in the default aircraft.
No doubt I will learn more and more in the next few weeks and might change my mind, but so far, the multiple lift points are just Public Relations, and I simply do not believe there is anything revolutionary going on. The tables as presented are nowhere near as flexible as the FSX air file offered. They have take away a lot of detail but added what appear to me to be pointless and crude tables, a classic example being your example of - controls_reactivity_scalar = 10 !!
- Messages
- 17
- Country
-
I'm working on a turbo aspirated Bonanza at the moment using the "modern" f/m just to see if can achieve what the legacy f/m can. It just about gets there with the advantage that the new friction model is better but its implementation has been overdone (yet again!) which is why default GA aircraft squirm all over the place on the ground.
Since you are here Jcomm, may I ask for a tip? I am trying to find the html gauges of the A320 Neo so I can tweak the fly by wire params but I cannot find those gauges. They appear to be in airliners\a320neo folder but I cannot find that folder in the packages section. Any ideas?
Since you are here Jcomm, may I ask for a tip? I am trying to find the html gauges of the A320 Neo so I can tweak the fly by wire params but I cannot find those gauges. They appear to be in airliners\a320neo folder but I cannot find that folder in the packages section. Any ideas?
- Messages
- 69
- Country
-
Believe I found it ( MS RDT works miracles... ) under:
F:\MSFS\Official\OneStore\asobo-vcockpits-instruments-a320-neo
in my install, so the common part with your install should start at "Official"...
Bellow this folder I have a deeper structure starting with a html_ui folder and 2 json files. Continue the search under that "html_ui" folder.
F:\MSFS\Official\OneStore\asobo-vcockpits-instruments-a320-neo
in my install, so the common part with your install should start at "Official"...
Bellow this folder I have a deeper structure starting with a html_ui folder and 2 json files. Continue the search under that "html_ui" folder.
Last edited:
- Messages
- 17
- Country
-
Thanks jcomm. I found it also this afternoon. But no avail as those gauges seem to address only display functions. In many FSX and P3d addons (Aerosoft Airbus being one example), the gauge list in the panel config included a dimensionless gauge that linked to a dll or dat file that contained fly by wire or other flight model parameters. In Asobo's case it looks like these functions are either hard coded and hidden, or they are buried in the main exe file. I've looked everywhere and I cannot find a whole lot of sim related references. For example the default Bonanza has a reference in the aircraft cfg file:
sim=Cessna172SP
But there is no visible evidence of this file, yet it does do something. If I comment it out the Bonanza flies much better!
sim=Cessna172SP
But there is no visible evidence of this file, yet it does do something. If I comment it out the Bonanza flies much better!
- Messages
- 69
- Country
-
Strange indeed ... and a bit os a deception, I must confess ...
I don't know where they're taking us... Well, a lot to search and to trial & error with...
Aerodynamics aren't the only area where MFS is clearly an unfinished product released too soon IMO... Weather, which got a good update with the latest patch is yet another area where some surprises are looking for the more exigent users. Still no way to define stuff like prevailing visibility, that new parameter called "aerosol density" which has a nice tittle but can't be consistently used to set a realistic low vis scenario, etc... Well, at least the latest patch brought METAR and an acceptable blend between their data and model / forecast data...
Thx for the hints Rob!
I don't know where they're taking us... Well, a lot to search and to trial & error with...
Aerodynamics aren't the only area where MFS is clearly an unfinished product released too soon IMO... Weather, which got a good update with the latest patch is yet another area where some surprises are looking for the more exigent users. Still no way to define stuff like prevailing visibility, that new parameter called "aerosol density" which has a nice tittle but can't be consistently used to set a realistic low vis scenario, etc... Well, at least the latest patch brought METAR and an acceptable blend between their data and model / forecast data...
Thx for the hints Rob!
Last edited: