proper way to add hangar floor?

[obie311]

As you can see below, I have placed an aircraft hangar over some slightly uneven Orbx terrain in P3D V4.5. I used a Terrain Poly>Airport Background>Flatten to flatten the uneven terrain so I could put in a Concrete Apron for the hangar floor? I selected Edit Individual Points and then set the Altitude on the four corners. This seemed to work OK but when I added the Concrete Apron at 0' AGL this is what I got. I've bungled around before and made good hangar floors but it was on flat terrain.

Also, some times when I create a Terrain Poly, I cannot select Edit Individual Points. It is greyed out and not selectable. What governs this behaviour (ie too close to a runway or other object)? Or is it a small bug?

 

[tgibson]

It appears that your airport's elevation is that height, and 0' AGL just brings it up to that level. It also appears that your flatten is not at that area's elevation?

 

[obie311]

Yes I tried to set the flatten at the actual terrain elevation at the location of the hangar via Edit Individual Points and set the Altitude on the four corners. How do I correct the elevation of the concrete apron? Set a minus AGL?

 

[tgibson]

No, you cannot do that, aprons will sit at the airport's elevation. No way to change that. To use an ADE apron there at that elevation you would have to create another (fake) airport at the new elevation. It might be better to create a ground polygon instead and use the local elevation option when compiling?

 

[obie311]

I have created the vertices to the size of the hangar floor but my Ground Poly Editor has no textures loaded in the dropdown. Do I need to download these from some website like scenery object libraries? I read Bill Womack's pdf tutorial but he's referring to GMax and Make BGL in FS2002 SDK so I am lost.

 

[tgibson]

First look for a file called Texture_Def.txt in the main ADE folder. This contains the texture definitions for that drop down box. Open it and check it - it should have lines like:

gp_PatternedLines_40F|0|40F|false

If not, you could either try to re-create it from the data at the bottom of this post (copy it, paste into the Texture_Def.txt file, replacing its contents, save the file) or re-install ADE?

Second, check your ADE/Textures_Dpy folder. This should contain all the GP textures in 24 bit format. If they are missing you will probably have to re-install ADE?

The contents of my Texture_Def.txt file (this is from ADE 1.76):

gp_PatternedLines_40F|0|40F|false
gp_ParkingDes|0|0|false
gp_Patterns|0|0|false
gp_LineBase|20F|20F|true
gp_Asphalt-dark|20F|20F|true
gp_Asphalt-light|20F|20F|true
gp_Asphalt-medium|20F|20F|true
gp_Concrete|20F|20F|true
gp_Dirt|20F|20F|true
gp_Gravel|20F|20F|true
gp_Red_20F|20F|20F|true
gp_White_20F|20F|20F|true
gp_Yellow_20F|20F|20F|true
gp_CrossHatch_Red|20F|20F|false
gp_CrossHatch_White|20F|20F|false
gp_CrossHatch_Yellow|20F|20F|false
gp_Signs_Red|0|0|false
gp_Signs_White|0|0|false
gp_Signs_Yellow|0|0|false
gp_TwyShoulder_100F|100F|0|false
taxiway_marks|0|56F|false

Hope this helps,

 

[obie311]

Tom thanks for the help. I did check for the requisite files and entries you detail above. I have them but, unless I'm missing a step in using the Editor, I cannot access them in the dropdowns.

 

[tgibson]

My only other guess would be that you might have a permissions problem. Do you have ADE installed into any Program Files folder?

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Obie:

The XML used to create a CVX vector flatten in your latter 6CA6 airport *.AD4 file attached in the OP above, for a terrain area under your hangar using ADE ...shows your requested "correct" elevation for vertex points:

<airportBounds>
<guid>
{47d48287-3ade-4fc5-8bec-b6b36901e612}
</guid>
<coordinates>
-120.485790895,38.325593134,845.094
-120.485858139,38.325543164,845.094
-120.485844881,38.325466862,845.094
-120.48585445,38.325357736,845.094
-120.485752366,38.325382721,845.094
-120.485772907,38.325245753,845.094
-120.485638575,38.325310393,845.094
-120.485464552,38.325532641,845.094
-120.485590073,38.325632586,845.094
-120.485752401,38.325648367,844.887
-120.485790895,38.325593134,845.094
</coordinates>
</airportBounds>


This can be verified when ADE compiles the CVX vector BGL, and one then de-compiles it to XML via CvxExtractor:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<Vectors>
<VectorType name="AirportBounds">
<Vector TextureGuid="{47D48287-3ADE-4FC5-8BEC-B6B36901E612}" TextureName="Airport_Backgrounds_Flatten" FileOffsetHex="A4">
<QMID u="253" v="293" l="11" />
<Shapes>
<Shape Index="0" DrawType="Polygon" FileOffsetHex="B6">
<Points>
<Point Longitude="-120.48579454422" Latitude="38.3255910873413" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
<Point Longitude="-120.485858917236" Latitude="38.325542807579" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
<Point Longitude="-120.485851764679" Latitude="38.3254623413086" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
<Point Longitude="-120.485858917236" Latitude="38.325355052948" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
<Point Longitude="-120.485758781433" Latitude="38.3253818750381" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
<Point Longitude="-120.485773086548" Latitude="38.3252424001694" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
<Point Longitude="-120.485644340515" Latitude="38.3253067731857" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
<Point Longitude="-120.485465526581" Latitude="38.325532078743" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
<Point Longitude="-120.485594272614" Latitude="38.3256286382675" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
<Point Longitude="-120.485758781433" Latitude="38.3256447315216" Altitude="844.887023925781" />
<Point Longitude="-120.48579454422" Latitude="38.3255910873413" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
</Points>
</Shape>
</Shapes>
</Vector>
</Vectors>



However, at run time in FS, something is not 'allowing' your CVX vector "sloped" flatten with "correct" variable elevation for vertex points ...to be rendered at the assigned Altitude you requested.

[EDITED]

Thus, your CVX vector "sloped" flatten with "correct" variable elevation for vertex points ...is instead being rendered at- or close to- the assigned 6CA6 airport ARP Altitude of 874.776 Meters ...rather than at the 'flatten' Altitude you requested (which ranges from 844.887023925781 to 845.093994140625 Meters AMSL)


Because the terrain at 6CA6 is 'sloped', and because the vertices for your CVX vector own "sloped" flatten with "correct" variable elevation for vertex points, you will have problems using a G-Poly (a uniformly 'flat' and horizontally "level" 3D scenery object with a ground texture), so I recommend you consider an alternative to that option suggested by Tom.


FYI: A G-Poly requires a uniformly 'flat' and horizontally "level" terrain flatten underneath it to minimize problems with flickering (aka "Z-Buffer Fighting"); AFAIK, this is true even if Z-Bias has been applied to a G-Poly 3D scenery object.

[END_EDIT]

I recommend that you first resolve the terrain scenery issues preventing your CVX vector "sloped" flatten with "correct" variable elevation for vertex points ...from being rendered as it should.

The interfering factor may involve another co-existing CVX vector BGL ex: from OrbX FTX NorCal.


Once you have fixed that, your CVX vector "sloped" flatten can precisely create a 'flat' and navigable surface from the hangar floor down to the RWY.

Your choice of CVX vector terrain-mesh-clinging land class textures can then be draped onto the local ground surface ex:

* Concrete in the hangar

..and:

* Local 'ground' land class between the hangar and the RWY


Let me know if you wish to learn how to do this.

GaryGB

 

[obie311]

My only other guess would be that you might have a permissions problem. Do you have ADE installed into any Program Files folder?

ADE is located at: C:\MSFS\FS Design Tools. I have "read-only" checked in attributes.

 

[obie311]

Hi Obie:

The XML used to create a CVX vector flatten in your 6CA6 airport *.AD4 file for a terrain area under your hangar using ADE shows your requested "correct" elevation for vertex points:

<airportBounds>
<guid>
{47d48287-3ade-4fc5-8bec-b6b36901e612}
</guid>
<coordinates>
-120.485790895,38.325593134,845.094
-120.485858139,38.325543164,845.094
-120.485844881,38.325466862,845.094
-120.48585445,38.325357736,845.094
-120.485752366,38.325382721,845.094
-120.485772907,38.325245753,845.094
-120.485638575,38.325310393,845.094
-120.485464552,38.325532641,845.094
-120.485590073,38.325632586,845.094
-120.485752401,38.325648367,844.887
-120.485790895,38.325593134,845.094
</coordinates>
</airportBounds>


This can be verified when ADE compiles the CVX vector BGL, and one then de-compiles it to XML via CvxExtractor:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<Vectors>
<VectorType name="AirportBounds">
<Vector TextureGuid="{47D48287-3ADE-4FC5-8BEC-B6B36901E612}" TextureName="Airport_Backgrounds_Flatten" FileOffsetHex="A4">
<QMID u="253" v="293" l="11" />
<Shapes>
<Shape Index="0" DrawType="Polygon" FileOffsetHex="B6">
<Points>
<Point Longitude="-120.48579454422" Latitude="38.3255910873413" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
<Point Longitude="-120.485858917236" Latitude="38.325542807579" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
<Point Longitude="-120.485851764679" Latitude="38.3254623413086" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
<Point Longitude="-120.485858917236" Latitude="38.325355052948" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
<Point Longitude="-120.485758781433" Latitude="38.3253818750381" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
<Point Longitude="-120.485773086548" Latitude="38.3252424001694" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
<Point Longitude="-120.485644340515" Latitude="38.3253067731857" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
<Point Longitude="-120.485465526581" Latitude="38.325532078743" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
<Point Longitude="-120.485594272614" Latitude="38.3256286382675" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
<Point Longitude="-120.485758781433" Latitude="38.3256447315216" Altitude="844.887023925781" />
<Point Longitude="-120.48579454422" Latitude="38.3255910873413" Altitude="845.093994140625" />
</Points>
</Shape>
</Shapes>
</Vector>
</Vectors>



However, at run time in FS, something is not 'allowing' your CVX vector "sloped" flatten with "correct" variable elevation for vertex points ...to be rendered at the assigned Altitude you requested.

Thus, your CVX vector "sloped" flatten with "correct" variable elevation for vertex points ...is instead being rendered at- or close to- the assigned 6CA6 airport Altitude of 874.776 Meters ...rather than at the 'flatten' Altitude you requested.


Because the terrain at 6CA6 is 'sloped', you will have problems using a G-Poly (a uniformly 'flat' and horizontally "level" 3D scenery object with a ground texture), so I recommend you consider an alternative to that option suggested by Tom.

I recommend that you first resolve the terrain scenery issues preventing your CVX vector "sloped" flatten with "correct" variable elevation for vertex points ...from being rendered as it should.

The interfering factor may involve another co-existing CVX vector BGL ex: from OrbX FTX NorCal.


Once you have fixed that, your CVX vector "sloped" flatten can precisely create a 'flat' and navigable surface from the hangar floor down to the RWY.

Your choice of CVX vector terrain-mesh-clinging land class textures can then be draped onto the local ground surface ex:

* Concrete in the hangar

..and:

* Local 'ground' land class between the hangar and the RWY


Let me know if you wish to learn how to do this.

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Obie:

I see you quoted my latter post, but you did not reply.

Might this be an editing error ?

(I overlook things in my own edits to posts as well ...GMTA ! )

GaryGB

 

[tgibson]

Uncheck Read-Only.

 

[GaryGB]

"Bumped" for edits to my post above:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/proper-way-to-add-hangar-floor.445903/post-827854

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Tom:

Have you actually:

1.) Loaded into ADE, Obie's latest *.AD4 attached in the OP above:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/proper-way-to-add-hangar-floor.445903/post-827795


2.) Compiled that project to BGL via ADE ("split" object placement BGL from airport BGL preferred)

3.) Added the ADE output BGL files for Obie's 6CA6 scenery to an active scenery folder positioned above any OrbX scenery layers in FS scenery library GUI

4.) Launched a flight in FSX to display / test Obie's 6CA6 scenery ?


Thanks in advance for your reply to clarify whether you may also be seeing the same things which I believe others would see, if the above steps are followed.

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Obie:


To assist with this troubleshooting scenario, would you please:


1.) Load into ADE, your latest *.AD4 attached in the OP above:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/proper-way-to-add-hangar-floor.445903/post-827795


2.) Export a list of scenery objects used in that project via:

a.) ADE Menu > Lists > Scenery Objects > [Export] button (Export Options dialog opens)

b.) In Export Options dialog

(1) > Options:

* check: Include Hidden Columns - checkbox

* check: Include Column Headers - checkbox

(2) > Format:

* tick: Comma separated values - radio button

c.) Click: [Export] button > Save As: ex: 6CA6_ADE_Objects_Used.csv

d.) Add a copy of 6CA6_ADE_Objects_Used.csv to a ZIP file, and attach that *.ZIP to a reply in this thread


Thanks for facilitating this further inquiry to identify possible causes for this 6CA6 flatten altitude rendering anomaly.

GaryGB

 

[tgibson]

Tom:

Have you actually:

...

GaryGB

I don't use Orbx so I can't test this, sorry. That's why I was focusing on the GP Editor problem.

 

[obie311]

Thanks for the generous offer Gary but I see that this is out of my level of expertise. I've got it looking fairly good and I'll just spend my time flying out of it.

Hi Obie:

I see you quoted my latter post, but you did not reply.

Might this be an editing error ?

(I overlook things in my own edits to posts as well ...GMTA ! )

GaryGB

Yes something happened and my reply (see ^^) was not in the response.

 

[obie311]

Hi Obie:


To assist with this troubleshooting scenario, would you please:


1.) Load into ADE, your latest *.AD4 attached in the OP above:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/proper-way-to-add-hangar-floor.445903/post-827795


2.) Export a list of scenery objects used in that project via:

a.) ADE Menu > Lists > Scenery Objects > [Export] button (Export Options dialog opens)

b.) In Export Options dialog

(1) > Options:

* check: Include Hidden Columns - checkbox

* check: Include Column Headers - checkbox

(2) > Format:

* tick: Comma separated values - radio button

c.) Click: [Export] button > Save As: ex: 6CA6_ADE_Objects_Used.csv

d.) Add a copy of 6CA6_ADE_Objects_Used.csv to a ZIP file, and attach that *.ZIP to a reply in this thread


Thanks for facilitating this further inquiry to identify possible causes for this 6CA6 flatten altitude rendering anomaly.

GaryGB

I hope this is what you require.

 

[GaryGB]

Thanks, Obie.

BTW: IIUC you have done a lot of work with scenery object libraries in FSX and in P3D via ADE Library Object Manager:

https://scruffyduck.screenstepslive.com/s/help_docs/m/20268/l/199783-adding-library-object-information-to-ade

IIUC you have also done a lot of work with a stand-alone version of Library Object Manager (aka "LOM") ...in the past.


I am trying to see if I can examine all of the objects you have placed in your 6CA6 project.

In the 6CA6_ADE_Objects_Used.CSV you attached above, ADE reports all but the Windsock object placements as having a Category "Stock", and does not report a 3D scenery object library source BGL file name.

Could you provide either in a public reply here in this thread, or send to me via a PM, a list of 3D scenery object library BGL file names for all the objects which you have placed at 6CA6 via ADE ?


Alternatively, I am curious as to whether Flight1 Instant Scenery 3 could identify a 3D scenery object library source BGL file name for the objects which you have placed via ADE.

Although the IS3 demo reportedly only works within a 50 mile radius of Seattle, another feature 'may' still work for us.

Would you consider trying to use the free demo version of Flight1 Instant Scenery 3 in FSX (or a version of P3D prior to version 4.5) on your own computer, to "Open" in Instant Scenery, the *_OBJ.BGL file which contains all pertinent info for the objects you placed at 6CA6 via ADE ?

http://www.flight1.com/products.asp?product=iscen3


I would like to see if, in Instant Scenery, when you click on the "Folder" Icon, you can "Open" the ADE *_OBJ.BGL file output by ADE during a "Split Compile" of your *.AD4 project, as it is this BGL file which contains all pertinent info for the scenery library objects you placed at 6CA6 via ADE.

If you can "Open" the ADE *_OBJ.BGL file, you can click on the ? Icon, then select and copy the scenery library objects info within that dialog tab into NotePad, and attach it either to a public reply in this thread, or send it to me via a PM.


But, regardless as to whether one of your 3D scenery library objects placed at 6CA6 is found to have a "Attached Platform" base or floor, I believe we should also still seek to resolve the terrain scenery issues preventing your CVX vector "sloped" flatten with "correct" variable elevation for vertex points ...from being rendered as it should, instead of that flatten surface elevation being 'forced' up to the ARP Altitude of 6CA6 assigned by a BGL.


While the interfering factor 'may' be found to involve another co-existing CVX vector BGL ex: from OrbX FTX NorCal, it is also, IMHO, still possible you have turned up yet another obscure quirk of BGLComp.XSD and/or ADE FaultFinder failing to report ex: that your CVX vector sloped flatten may be too close to a "0 Meters width - hidden RWY".

GaryGB